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Thread: Thanks Trans-Alta & the Conservative Gov't

  1. #101
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    Yup

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Watch for your power bill to increase. Somehow they will get it back out of us. Utility companies should be public and keep our bills as low as they can, non profit, as a basic human right.
    EPCOR is owned 100% by the City & the regulated rate has its constituent costs filed, audited & picked over every few years by the regulator. That being said, there's some pretty hefty restrictions on how EPCOR can buy power for the regulated rate in order to make power contracts seem more appealing in comparison.

    The NDP campaigned with a platform to review & change the current deregulated scheme. Hopefully this includes returning the cost of transmission to be borne by 100% by the generators & a relaxing of the restrictions on the regulated rate power purchase restrictions to allow EPCOR to actually leverage the economies of scale inherent in their customer base.
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  3. #103
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    It goes back to Ralph Klein and his dismantling of the regulatory systems in this province.

  4. #104

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    There were problems under the old system too. Utilities could, and I believe, did game that system too.

  5. #105

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    If we are giving out Thanks, let us all Thank Rachel for creating the conditions for Trans Alta to postpone Genesee 7 till the next decade. 1.6 billion dollars. Translation till the NDP are gone.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turtle View Post
    If we are giving out Thanks, let us all Thank Rachel for creating the conditions for Trans Alta to postpone Genesee 7 till the next decade. 1.6 billion dollars. Translation till the NDP are gone.
    Right, it has nothing to do with current market conditions.

  7. #107
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    I do wonder with the NDP government will they start to re-regulate electricity. Time will tell.
    http://calgaryherald.com/news/politi...city-advantage

  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    I do wonder with the NDP government will they start to re-regulate electricity. Time will tell.
    http://calgaryherald.com/news/politi...city-advantage
    There were different degrees of regulation over the years that affected electricity and prices. Natural gas was regulated in the 1970s to limit its use and prevent a lot of it being burned as fuel rather than as petrochemical feedstock that could be exported.

    In the past you also had a situation where one farmer paid one rate to the utility servicing his/her area and another farmer across the road paid another rate. Same with comparisons between users in different towns and cities. So a "postage stamp" rate, where everyone paid the same rate was deemed fairer. This led to the creation of EEMA (Electric Energy Marketing Agency)


    Alberta Electric Energy Marketing Agency

    "Dates of Founding and/or Dissolution:

    The Alberta Electric Energy Marketing Agency was established by the Electric Energy Marketing Act (S.A. 1981, chapter E-4.1), which was proclaimed April 15, 1982. The Act was repealed in 1995 by the Electric Energy Marketing Act Repeal Act.

    Functional Responsibility:

    The Alberta Electric Energy Marketing Agency, established as a corporation, became operational September 1, 1982, administering the Electric Energy Marketing Act. The Agency was created as a means to alleviate the cost differentials of electric energy in the northern and southern halves of the province. The Agency would purchase the energy, average the costs (of generation and transmission), and resell it at the average price. The Agency was acting as the agent for the Crown in right of Alberta for electric energy. The utilities identified through regulation as those required to sell power to the Agency were the TransAlta Utilities Corporation, Alberta Power Limited and Edmonton Power. From September 1982 until December 1990, the Agency also operated a price shielding program, to shield customers from rate increases that resulted from the pooling. Final rates to customers were set by Municipal Councils or the Public Utilities Board. Responsibility for the Electric Energy Marketing Act was transferred from the Agency to the Department of Energy in July 1991, whereby the Department became responsible for the administration of Agency operations.

    Predecessor and Successor Bodies: ..."

    https://hermis.alberta.ca/paa/Detail...=True&deptID=1

    Alberta Energy Market Timeline

    Submitted by Hilary on Mon, 12/15/2014 - 06:14
    Here is a brief overview of the important dates in the history of the Alberta natural gas and electricity markets.

    ...
    1902 The City of Edmonton purchases the Edmonton Electric Lighting and Power Company, making it the first municipally-owned electric utility in Canada.
    1905 The Province of Alberta is proclaimed.
    1909 Calgary Power (later TransAlta) is formed
    ...
    1960 The Alberta Gas Utilities Act is introduced
    1975 Under a Federal-Provincial agreement, natural gas prices in Canada are regulated.
    1982 The Electric Energy Marketing Agency is created, as part of a policy seeking to equalize electricity rates throughout the province.
    1986 Natural gas prices are deregulated through the federal-provincial Agreement on Natural Gas Markets and Prices (signed between Alberta, British Columbia, Saskatchewan and the federal government).
    1995 The Alberta Energy and Utilities Board (EUB) is created from the merger of the Public Utilities Board and the Energy Resources and Conservation Board.
    1996 The Electric Utilities Act enters into effect, and starts the restructuring of the electricity utility industry and the process of
    ...

    http://callmepower.ca/en/ab/energy-markets/timeline

    The Alberta disadvantage: sky high electricity rates
    Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 10:16 am
    Roger Holmes, published
    http://www.starnews.ca/opinions/edit...9bb30f31a.html
    Last edited by KC; 04-11-2015 at 12:24 PM.

  9. #109
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    Now this is more like it! Enjoy the cheap power while ye' can folks!

    Varcoe: Alberta's power market in turmoil as prices hit 20-year lows and demand falls

    Average Alberta electricity prices tumbled in the second quarter to their lowest point since 1996, when Ralph Klein was serving his first term as premier and the Macarena topped the music charts.

    So far this year, there’s no dancing in the power sector.

    Overall demand for electricity is down 2.1 per cent, putting the province on pace for its first drop in consumption since at least 1992.

    If you want to understand how much turmoil is roiling through Alberta’s electricity sector today, consider those two historic indicators for a moment.

    Upheaval surrounding the province’s plan to phase out coal-fired power plants and attract renewable energy supply with incentives, as well as broader questions about the future of existing power purchase arrangements (PPAs), are also adding to the turmoil.

    “We are all shocked by what’s happened here,” says independent utility consultant Rick Cowburn.

    “Chaotic is sort of a negative way to describe it, dynamic would be more positive sounding — but the market will be what it will be, no matter how we describe it.”

    Several factors are battering the market, and it will have implications for consumers, generators and the Alberta government.

    In the April-to-June period, Alberta Power Pool Prices averaged just $15 per megawatt-hour, the lowest average price since the fall of 1996, says a FirstEnergy Capital study.

    The decrease was caused by a number of factors, including falling demand, low natural gas prices, mild winter weather and excess generation hanging over Alberta’s deregulated market.

    For the entire year, pool prices have averaged $16.57 per MWh in 2016, compared to $42.60 a year earlier, according to data from the Alberta Electric System Operator (AESO).
    http://calgaryherald.com/business/en...d-demand-falls

  10. #110
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    And this is what a change in government looks like, folks.

    Alberta consumer power rates to be capped for four years

    Alberta's NDP government plans to cap consumer power rates at a maximum of 6.8 cents per kilowatt hour for four years, starting June 1, 2017.

    The move, announced Tuesday, is the government's first step in moving Alberta away from the deregulated power market that was implemented in the 1990s.

    Currently, consumers who are not on contracts pay a fluctuating rate based on market prices.

    The government decided on the rate based on the number forecasted by private operators five years from now.

    The current average electricity price is 3.8 cents per kilowatt hour.
    Enjoy the cheap power while ye can, once the whole carbon tax thing starts/shuttering of coal plants kicking into overdrive 6.8 cents will be a mere stat in history.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...-cap-1.3862301

  11. #111

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    OK, but they're making the transition while capping rates. If providers are going to bring power generation online within that cap and be profitable now, then they'll be able to do it later as well. On the surface it looks to be a good move, avoiding the issues that Ontario has.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  12. #112
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    I'll agree to that Chmilz. Anything to keep prices in check. Ontario has been a complete disaster - and Wynne has even apologized recently.

    I know the recession in Alberta has helped drop prices but I can't help thinking that the Cons getting the bootski has helped drive prices down too, somehow. Coincidence? I don't know... it hasn't been cheap like this since mid/early 90's. I'm enjoying it thoroughly.



    Kathleen Wynne admits high electricity prices are 'her mistake,' but fixing things won't be easy

    Premier Kathleen Wynne grabbed some attention this weekend by admitting a mistake.

    It's not something politicians do all that often. When they do, you can be assured there's a darned good reason. In Wynne's case, it looks like she's trying to neutralize — or at least lessen — the damage that skyrocketing hydro bills are doing to her popularity.

    "I take responsibility as leader for not paying close enough attention to some of the daily stresses in Ontarians' lives," Wynne told the Ontario Liberal Party's annual general meeting, held in Ottawa. "Electricity prices are the prime example."

    Wynne defended Liberal government moves to make Ontario's electricity system cleaner and more stable, but admitted that the cost "has burdened people in every corner" of the province.

    "People have told me that they've had to choose between paying the electricity bill and buying food or paying rent," Wynne said. "It is unacceptable that people in Ontario could be facing that choice. So our government made a mistake. It was my mistake. And I'm going to do my best to fix it."

    Yet "fixing" high hydro prices is no easy task.
    More here:

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...ills-1.3860314
    Last edited by Kitlope; 22-11-2016 at 11:48 AM.

  13. #113

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    It's cheap because we're in a state of oversupply due to reduced commercial/industrial loads thanks to the economy. Whomever you choose to blame about the economy is your own prerogative.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  14. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    It's cheap because we're in a state of oversupply due to reduced commercial/industrial loads thanks to the economy. Whomever you choose to blame about the economy is your own prerogative.
    And oodles of new found natural gas that has depressed prices over the years and that supply situation doesn't look to go away.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    It's cheap because we're in a state of oversupply due to reduced commercial/industrial loads thanks to the economy. Whomever you choose to blame about the economy is your own prerogative.
    Who's blaming who. I blame OPEC

  16. #116
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    So the cost of the 600 kWh of electricity my household uses every month has been capped at $40. Big deal. Last time electricity was $0.068 / kWh my total bill was over $100. Electricity is cheap, but getting it to your house is too expensive. At least the situation with electricity is better than natural gas though, where the actual cost of gas can be as little as 10% of my bill.

  17. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    So the cost of the 600 kWh of electricity my household uses every month has been capped at $40. Big deal. Last time electricity was $0.068 / kWh my total bill was over $100. Electricity is cheap, but getting it to your house is too expensive. At least the situation with electricity is better than natural gas though, where the actual cost of gas can be as little as 10% of my bill.
    I'm interested in hearing where you'd like to cut corners on the maintenance, upkeep & growth of the distribution system.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  18. #118
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    How about charging generators for the use of transmission infrastructure rather than consumers? That way there might be a stronger lobby ensuring the system is operated as efficiently as possible and the generators will include those costs in the wholesale price of electricity, so consumers will pay in direct proportion the amount of power they use.

    How about charging for distribution infrastructure in proportion to some combination of total consumption and peak consumption (which determines the needed sizes for wires and transformers) rather than a fixed rate?

    Capital costs of new distribution infrastructure (such as a new subdivision) should be paid by the developer, like other public infrastructure such as roads.

  19. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    How about charging generators for the use of transmission infrastructure rather than consumers? That way there might be a stronger lobby ensuring the system is operated as efficiently as possible and the generators will include those costs in the wholesale price of electricity, so consumers will pay in direct proportion the amount of power they use.
    This was the way things were done pre-deregulation, but unfortunately is no longer the case. There was talk about the NDP revisiting this, but the waters are getting muddied with the transition away from fossil fuels. I'd wager we'll hear more about the costs for generation as they roll out the transition strategy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    How about charging for distribution infrastructure in proportion to some combination of total consumption and peak consumption (which determines the needed sizes for wires and transformers) rather than a fixed rate?
    This (demand billing) is done for Small Commercial & larger rate classes inside of Edmonton & on all non-residential rate classes outside Edmonton, where there are differences in wire sizes & transformers. For the most part, however, demand at one residential service isn't markedly different enough from another to really warrant tracking the information on a per-customer basis, so it's averaged & rolled in for Residential rate class customers (the same ones that'll benefit from the price freeze). Also, please keep in mind that only costs incurred by the utility in on a per-consumption basis are able to be collected via a consumption based charge. Other charges that are incurred over time have to be collected as per-day charges. So even if you get your usage down to nil, you still have to pay for the maintenance & upkeep of the grid, the meter readings, and so forth as those charges aren't incremented based on usage. Meter readers don't work on commissions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    Capital costs of new distribution infrastructure (such as a new subdivision) should be paid by the developer, like other public infrastructure such as roads.
    See here for details of the process & costs of new power connections.

    E: Full disclosure. I work for the local utility concern. Any statements by me are not reflective or representative of my employer & I'm making no value-based assessments here, just trying to lay out information so we can all be informed.
    Last edited by noodle; 23-11-2016 at 11:26 AM.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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