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Thread: Re-purpose of Old Remand Centre

  1. #1
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    Default Re-purpose of Old Remand Centre

    http://www.theprovince.com/travel/Fo...478/story.html

    Looking at this project got me to thinking about the old remand centre in Edmonton. Perhaps it could be re-purposed into social and or student housing, with a new re-skinning, and the addition of amenities. If the Province and CoE work with the UofA Engineering dept a lot of the basic design could be done by students, perhaps as part of a co-op program. Also the trades programs at NAIT could do a lot of the installation as part of their course load, thus students would gain valuable real world experience.
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    ^If I recall, engineering studies showed this can't be re-purposed and needs to be demolished.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Good location for new law courts building

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    I thought the province was going to use that space for an expansion of the RAM at some point in the future.
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    Ice worked inside the building (not as a guard though). I can tell you that it can't be repurposed. Simply how they built the units would prevent this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    I thought the province was going to use that space for an expansion of the RAM at some point in the future.
    RAM is further west, on the other side of 97 Street where the post office warehouse is situated.

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    I am aware of where the museum is to be built, on the post office site, but if you check out the video at approximately 3:22 they say there is potential to expand across 97 street and show a pedway crossing said street.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkbxfUSWgh0
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    I am aware of where the museum is to be built, on the post office site, but if you check out the video at approximately 3:22 they say there is potential to expand across 97 street and show a pedway crossing said street.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkbxfUSWgh0
    That is an overhead train link from the tracks. No mention or visual depicts the existing remand centre.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    ^If I recall, engineering studies showed this can't be re-purposed and needs to be demolished.
    That's impossible to believe. Hire people without any intellectual creativity and that is what you will get.

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    Anything is possible but at what cost? I believe that this specialized building is not able to be re-purposed at a reasonable cost.

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    Cool boutique affordable hotel?
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    Affordable housing, a hotel...all good ideas.
    Problem is, would anyone want to use it, knowing it carries the stink of criminals?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I think it's best to tear the Remand Centre down. This building casts a black eye on McCauley.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Calgary's Remand was demolished and now Bow Valley College is expanding their campus across 6th Avenue SE via pedway to a beautiful new building. It was decided that the internal layout and specialized design of that all concrete building to accommodate a prison was financially unworkable to accommodate any alternate practical uses. Sometimes one must simply let go when the rehab cost outweighs the cost of redevelopment. Sometimes recycling is not the best use of resources. And just think, all that reinforced concrete will make extra nice fill for the Anthony Henday ring road. It truly must go as it has outlived its usefulness and has cast a dark shadow over McCauley for far too long.

    Plus the province envisions that a new HSR (when or if that ever gets built) will go right through this Provincially Owned property (as shown in their video concept for the RAM). AND, there is also an excellent limited time opportunity to make this site, the northeast corner of the RAM, the 97 Street underpass, Mary Burlie Park, the East Stationlands property, the new Pacific Rim Mall Condos and the new Chinese Cultural Garden all part of an exceptional open air plaza serving as a gathering space for west McCauley/Chinatown and a relatively inexpensive yet exceptional LRT Station via the undeveloped Future Station that is roughed in below the Remand Centre. After all, the Province has already committed as part of the RAM funding to include a direct link to the LRT system. Perhaps those funds could be used to fully realize the potential of this area right now, instead of installing yet another underground tunnel all the way to Churchill Square which would leave this station undeveloped for yet another 30+ years.

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    artifact storage for the RAM.

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    if anyone is proposing demolishing this building dont get in their way too much. anything replacing this will be a win for the city

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    Think of each unit like the units that they depicte on Oz, very difficult to convert those into anything useable.

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    Malmaison's hotel in Oxford is a repurposed jail.
    http://www.malmaison.com/hotels/oxford/oxford-mal.aspx
    granted, it's a jail built in 1870 with brick and windows, but still a jail.
    Every room is the space of 3 jail cells.

    The Liberty Hotel in Boston (ironic name) used to be the Charles Street Jail.
    http://www.libertyhotel.com/

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    Why not relocate the minimum security prison at 95th Street to the old remand centre and put up a high-rise condo?

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    ^ there are plenty of high rise sites avaialbe in east Jasper. It's not like the minimum security faciltiy is sitting on coveted land

    I doubt the remand could be reused for that anyways.
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    I like the thought of it being artifact storage for the RAM. The AGA does not have adequate onsite storage either . A combined storage facility might work. AS this centre was a secure facility and supported a resident population , it's fire protection is probably also of a high standard. I would also suspect the HVAC would be a sophisticated system also. The location would be good for both institutions.

    In looking a the photo , if the building had a dramatic paint job it may have a better chance to rehabilitate than its former inmates .

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    Perhaps, with considerable work to the exterior finish, an artifact storage location, yes. CoE is also apparently short that sort of space.

    Besides, I'm so intrigued by the idea of criminals breaking into the facility .....
    ... gobsmacked

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hull534 View Post
    I like the thought of it being artifact storage for the RAM. The AGA does not have adequate onsite storage either . A combined storage facility might work. AS this centre was a secure facility and supported a resident population , it's fire protection is probably also of a high standard. I would also suspect the HVAC would be a sophisticated system also. The location would be good for both institutions.
    Besides RAM storage, how about City Archives storage:
    http://www.630ched.com/Channels/Reg/...spx?ID=1414866
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    Default How about stripes for paint

    Still waiting for the Arlington site to be reborn .......

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    ^ Oh God, no...! I'm not sure if that'll go down so well.
    Is there hope for Edmonton? Yes!!! The Oilers? Wait and see.

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    it might seem a bit obvious, but how about a museum of the history of famous criminals, prisons, etc, you could also turn it into a hostel like the one in ottawa

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    Nicholas Street Jail (Ottawa) has history though as its where the last hangings happened in Canada and has its share of ghost stories and the such. The remand as far as I know has no historical value or significance at all. It would also be prohibitively expensive to retrofit as a backpackers hostel unless government came to the table with oodles of money to help.
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    Tear it down please...
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Tear it down please...
    Boom Boom Boom!!!!!
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    Looking at the new RAM pictures, it would appear to me that any high speed tracks would have to go righ through the remand.

  31. #31

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    The pics of the new RAM that we've seen are just a concept. The final design hasn't been selected or even designed at this point. The tracks could go any number of places, even underground.

  32. #32

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    It should be kept a jail, as we all know that we do need more space in our jails, even with the new remand center. Then again, with our lax justice system the new Remand is going to be a revolving door anyway...

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    Hahaha.. Uh huh
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortarsejo View Post
    It should be kept a jail, as we all know that we do need more space in our jails, even with the new remand center. Then again, with our lax justice system the new Remand is going to be a revolving door anyway...
    Have you seen the size of the new remand centre? It's huge

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    Quote Originally Posted by shortarsejo View Post
    It should be kept a jail, as we all know that we do need more space in our jails, even with the new remand center. Then again, with our lax justice system the new Remand is going to be a revolving door anyway...

    http://www.torontosun.com/news/canad.../14765636.html

    And yet we "need" more jails...

  36. #36

    Exclamation #YEGDT Old Remand Centre

    It'll still be "months" before something is done w/ old Remand Centre in #yegdt says @MLA_W_Drysdale #ableg http://t.co/ut4ERaPeHm via www.630ched.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bray88 View Post
    It'll still be "months" before something is done w/ old Remand Centre in #yegdt says @MLA_W_Drysdale #ableg http://t.co/ut4ERaPeHm via www.630ched.com
    To add to this I'd like to see private investment into the old remand to completely gut it and retrofit it for another purpose, having Edmonton City Police move in there would be a poor decision given the potential of the site and surrounding area

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bray88 View Post
    completely gut it and retrofit it for another purpose
    Would that even be worth it? It may be better to just demolish and redevelop the lot all together. The site has a lot of potential.

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    There are discussions about repurposing it.
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    How much of the Remand exterior and interior is structural? Could you do a full building refit, stripping it down to its bones like the Devonian and Intact buildings, and then re-cladding it in glass as an office building or residential complex? Or are the jail cells part of the internal structure, and impossible to remove?

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    The sherriffs were looking at it as an operations centre, and I believe they may still use it in a limited capacity as a holding facility. Last time I chatted with my friend over at AI, things were still up in the air.
    Parkdale

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    How much of the Remand exterior and interior is structural? Could you do a full building refit, stripping it down to its bones like the Devonian and Intact buildings, and then re-cladding it in glass as an office building or residential complex? Or are the jail cells part of the internal structure, and impossible to remove?
    To be reviewed further and then decided on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    How much of the Remand exterior and interior is structural? Could you do a full building refit, stripping it down to its bones like the Devonian and Intact buildings, and then re-cladding it in glass as an office building or residential complex? Or are the jail cells part of the internal structure, and impossible to remove?
    It was built as a jail, so there are a lot of components that would be difficult to refit. The exterior is pre-cast so that comes off fairly easy... the elevators are insufficient and it'd be lots & lots of work to rework all the services that currently run in service chases. The block walls could be blown out on the inside but once again, lots of work. It won't end up being a market use building.. but it could be turned into something.
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    To paraphrase the Gipper, "Mr. (or Ms) Whosever In Charge Of This, tear this Remand Centre down!"

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    It was interesting to hear Wayne Drysdale talk about it, he compared it to Tetris and trying to make things fit into an existing building, but I'm not sure if we can rotate the offices as easily as we do in Tetris.
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    The jail cells aren't necessarily a problem. I read about (too long ago for me to find the cite) a project where they turned a penitentiary type place into small format housing. There's lots of plumbing already there.

    Eve

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    A giant study hall for the UofA, Grant MacEwan. . ...or new downtown library freeing up the existing library site for something else.

    An art and sculpture facility for artists to work on and store their works... or a micro-marketplace...

    A big hostel right in the heart of Edmonton...

    Storage for the new downtown museum,art gallery, etc. Or offsite storage for any number off small downtown retailers. ...Allowing them to make more economic order quantities or to enable more and smaller retailers to enter the downtown market.

    Or residential storage for downtown condo owners etc...

    A big legal grow-op building for fresh year-round local vegetables etc.
    Last edited by KC; 26-08-2013 at 10:39 PM.

  48. #48

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    we could put the wildrose party there....

    *just make sure to keep the cells and some how forget about the keys*

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    I don't think the problem is thinking up uses for it, as these problems seldom lack willingness and instead lack solidifying users who can help the land owners pay millions worth of property taxes and operating expenses over the next 30 years and perhaps even potentially make money.

    It's easy to over simplify and criticize governments choices, but regardless of the political party, you have to choose when to 'lose' money and when to make money. Governments are like families, why would you rent out your car for $800 a year when you paid $30,000 for it that year and your kids need money to go to school, medical expenses and your oil royalties are ...

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    A giant study hall for the UofA, Grant MacEwan. . ...or new downtown library freeing up the existing library site for something else.

    An art and sculpture facility for artists to work on and store their works... or a micro-marketplace...

    A big hostel right in the heart of Edmonton...

    Storage for the new downtown museum,art gallery, etc. Or offsite storage for any number off small downtown retailers. ...Allowing them to make more economic order quantities or to enable more and smaller retailers to enter the downtown market.

    Or residential storage for downtown condo owners etc...

    A big legal grow-op building for fresh year-round local vegetables etc.

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    ...and then build something nice that isn't an eyesore!
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  51. #51

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    ^in light of what happened today, if this is demolished it may be replaced with a SECesque home depot

  52. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by nick5150 View Post
    I don't think the problem is thinking up uses for it, as these problems seldom lack willingness and instead lack solidifying users who can help the land owners pay millions worth of property taxes and operating expenses over the next 30 years and perhaps even potentially make money.

    It's easy to over simplify and criticize governments choices, but regardless of the political party, you have to choose when to 'lose' money and when to make money. Governments are like families, why would you rent out your car for $800 a year when you paid $30,000 for it that year and your kids need money to go to school, medical expenses and your oil royalties are ...

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    A giant study hall for the UofA, Grant MacEwan. . ...or new downtown library freeing up the existing library site for something else.

    An art and sculpture facility for artists to work on and store their works... or a micro-marketplace...

    A big hostel right in the heart of Edmonton...

    Storage for the new downtown museum,art gallery, etc. Or offsite storage for any number off small downtown retailers. ...Allowing them to make more economic order quantities or to enable more and smaller retailers to enter the downtown market.

    Or residential storage for downtown condo owners etc...

    A big legal grow-op building for fresh year-round local vegetables etc.
    I have to agree. However, if you were behaving intelligently from a financial perspective, you wouldn't send your car to a crusher while it has considerable remaining utility/intrinsic value and then turn around and buy another new car. You'd want to show potential buyers that despite the fading scratched paint, the vehicle has great residual value.

    By throwing out ideas you may just create a vision where no vision existed before. That's what brings users together.

  53. #53

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    ^ Except this isn't a regular "car" it's a tank.. and has very little useful application, it's hard to repurpouse and does not have a positive internal experience from a person perspective.
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    should make an excellent records archive for those that still legaly need paper
    Still waiting for the Arlington site to be reborn .......

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    Wasn't the municipal archives looking for a new place?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I believe so
    There are no doubt significant cleanup , legal, tax rate sq. footage operations rates etc etc etc holding this out against their need and opportunity.

    My understanding is that this facility was left in a biohazard mess
    Likely cleaned up by now
    Still waiting for the Arlington site to be reborn .......

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    I think they are currently located in that old brewery in the river valley...Bohemian Maid or whatever
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I was told that that was a hard goods storage facility
    Would wonder if they're using it for records as well

    I have some great stories and memories about "BoMaid"
    https://www.google.ca/search?q=bohem...iw=983&bih=652
    Still waiting for the Arlington site to be reborn .......

  59. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueline View Post
    should make an excellent records archive for those that still legaly need paper
    It's a monster of a building for paper storage...

    What about a secure server farm.
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  60. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Blueline View Post
    should make an excellent records archive for those that still legaly need paper
    It's a monster of a building for paper storage...

    What about a secure server farm.
    That is a lot of data center storage space. But the problem would

    A)cooling
    B)power

    For a data center to be profitable in that space it will have to be large.

    And if it's large it's going to need a hell of a lot of cooling and power

    Probably looking at 25,000 Sq ft to make someone look at outfitting it as a data center. Perhaps even bigger.

    Reason being is the costs of the retrofit will be so high you will have to go big to get any sort of reasonable return on investment.

    Now for the numbers. *Disclaimer* These are rough numbers based upon generalities I have seen in data center build outs.

    42U rack needs about 30sq ft of floor space for aisles, door swing etc.
    Average of 5000Watts/rack for an average filled rack
    45% power to cooling
    300 homes/1MW
    assume 25 servers/rack

    25,000 sq ft - ~833 racks - ~4.2 MegaWatts total power - 1.9MW cooling - 540 tonnes AC - 1260 homes worth of power, and 500 homes worth of cooling - 20,825 servers.

    This is a good sized data center. But these power requirements are JUST for the data center. This building is much bigger than 25,000 Sq Ft. **I couldn't find it's actually square footage so if someone has that it would be awesome!

    You would have to do a massive retrofit for UPS's, generators, Telco/fiber drops, and raised floor. Running all the electrical, the MASSIVE amount of data cabling, and all the AC lines/chilled air runs.

    This is the perfect sort of building for this because it is secure. But we need to be realistic about who would come to edmonton to setup a data center big enough to make it profitable to do any sort of retrofit for a meaningful datacenter.

    That is unless you just plopped a couple racks in a cell.. But I would hardly call that a data center.








  61. #61

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    ^ ya just jackhammer the floor plates open, who cares what it looks like and get going...

    But really it's the only use for the structure I can think is somewhat reasonable. Think about the awesome potential for cooling in our environment... collect naturally cool air in the winter and evenings.. The savings could be huge!
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    There actually is such a (phenominal) data center with suitable space for hire in our west end
    Still waiting for the Arlington site to be reborn .......

  63. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    ^ ya just jackhammer the floor plates open, who cares what it looks like and get going...

    But really it's the only use for the structure I can think is somewhat reasonable. Think about the awesome potential for cooling in our environment... collect naturally cool air in the winter and evenings.. The savings could be huge!
    indeed on the cooling savings during winter and evenings.. but during the summer at 35C the cooling demands will be huge.

    projects like this are built with a max usage in mind. so even if it's rarely used 540tonnes would need to be in place. but that's with 5KW/rack. With the increasing cloud density you could potentially double your ROI by amping up to 10KW/rack which is becoming more common place. course now you are looking at 8.4MW for just the racks (not including additional power for switches and networking appliances) and 1100tons of cooling..

    building would be in the 10MW range with about 1200-1300 tons of cooling overall (which would be a massive cooling rig). I don't know if we have power infrastructure downtown that would support that..

    I would love to see it. More data center options are awesome. especially highly secure ones (the biotech guys would get in on this for COLO for sure!). But I don't know if that will happen.

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    building would be in the 10MW range with about 1200-1300 tons of cooling overall (which would be a massive cooling rig). I don't know if we have power infrastructure downtown that would support that..
    Power is not the problem.. We've got three 1000 tonne chillers in our complex running on 1800 volts.

    In a server environment I think you're better off to go with a farm of 50 tonne DX lieberts and dry coolers for winter. done and done.
    Parkdale

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    Just make sure you have a dry fire system... unlike shaw.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    building would be in the 10MW range with about 1200-1300 tons of cooling overall (which would be a massive cooling rig). I don't know if we have power infrastructure downtown that would support that..
    Power is not the problem.. We've got three 1000 tonne chillers in our complex running on 1800 volts.

    In a server environment I think you're better off to go with a farm of 50 tonne DX lieberts and dry coolers for winter. done and done.
    I don't know what substations are near by downtown or what the building has access too right now. I just always operate under the assumption that entering a project there is never enough quality power. Saved my butt a couple times.

    Farm of chillers would be good but it all boils down to efficiency and cost. Toss in redundancy and there ya go. For a secure environment you are looking at also wanting to offer substantial uptime numbers so redundancy will be where space and power requirements go goofy.

    The point I am making is that this would be a substantial retrofit of the building at an immense initial investment. That's why large datacenters tend to be built warehouse style in a field, it's just cheaper to construct them this way. Specialized datacenters get really expensive really quickly. Tossing some servers in a jail cell won't cut it.

    I agree this would be a perfect re-purposing of the building. I just don't know who is going to build it out. If I had 15-20M laying around I would do it in a sec.

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    On paper it's an excellent use of the building.

    However, a facility like this would do nothing to participate in the vibrancy of the area.

    While it's not a bad neighbor, it's not a good one either - just a neutral neighbour like a lawyer's, doctor's or dentist's office.

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    Idrive + 240 :
    PM if you want more info on the data centre mentioned
    Still waiting for the Arlington site to be reborn .......

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    Can't say much, but expect to hear more about this site/building.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Can't say much, but expect to hear more about this site/building.
    Any hint?

    Redevelopment, private, government?

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    Sorry guys, hate to often do this but nothing more right now.
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    You are such a tease, O'Donnell!
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    it could be used as shelter for homeless people

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    ^^^
    Good idea...there is a severe lack of homeless resources in these areas - now that Terwillegar Towne is virtually a service ghetto, Boyle-McCauley can finally step up to take their fair share.

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    Cheeky!

    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown View Post
    ^^^
    Good idea...there is a severe lack of homeless resources in these areas - now that Terwillegar Towne is virtually a service ghetto, Boyle-McCauley can finally step up to take their fair share.

  76. #76

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    Mayor Mandel, repurpose it to Canadian Multicultural Centre.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...icultural.html

    Mandel - renovatable - is that a real word?.

    As it stands now the building is in the hands of Alberta Infrastructure.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  77. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Can't say much, but expect to hear more about this site/building.
    Please tear it down its such an eye sore on an area of downtown that is in the midst of tranformational change, this building needs to come down and replace it with something phenomenol

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    Perhaps we could http://reimagine.ca it
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    You are such a tease, O'Donnell!
    Teasing is the first step to love affairs lol.

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    Keep it for emergency housing / hospitalization in a disaster, plague, etc.

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    If you see it as only corridors and rooms, you have endless possibilities:

    http://jetsetta.com/travel/11-prisons-turned-hotels/

    Eve

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    These repurposed jails are all historical buildings that have a distinct charm, our remand centre has none of that.
    Edmonton is a very exciting place to be right now.

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    ^Yep. I spent some "quality" time there in my younger days and it is no more then a bland institutional building.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Channing76 View Post
    ^Yep. I spent some "quality" time there in my younger days and it is no more then a bland institutional building.
    Yeah, except similar sentiments could have been said of numerous old warehouses that were converted into residences rather than demolished.

    For those demanding a total change in appearance, note that they could build a new glass shell right over the entire old structure. Build out 10 metres or so, keeping the core structure in place. The perimeter becomes light airy office space or whatever while the concrete core gets repurposed.
    Last edited by KC; 12-09-2013 at 06:08 AM.

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    Edmonton homeless agencies cast eye on old remand centre

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...448975?cmp=rss

    The province is considering using Edmonton's old remand centre to house homeless people as one of a number of possible future uses.
    That's good news for inner-city agencies having difficulty finding accommodation for their clients.

    Terry Zawatski, who's with the Operation Friendship Senior Society, would like to see a couple of floors devoted to helping older homeless people who need extra help.

    "It's already arranged so it could be easily isolated, easily managed, kept sanitary," she said. "Right now sick people and elderly people and anybody who needs a little care, we're just not looking after them. It's just cruel and inhuman what we're doing to them..making them go to a mat on the floor."

    Meredith Porter of the McCauley Community League wonders how that could be done when the city has imposed a moratorium on such inner city projects.

    "If neighbourhoods like Terwillegar Town get to say no, then so do we."

    But Alberta Infrastructure said that while no decision is expected on the remand centre for several months, the idea of a homeless shelter is still on the table.

    "That's certainly one of the options being considered," said spokesperson Christine Way.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Jeez... the symbolism such a move would evoke... I'm at a loss for words.

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    I'd prefer if they tore it down and built a similar-sized complex in its place. The symbolism of housing homeless people in a former prison (with the setup that it has inside) is a little too much for me. Plus, the place is in really bad shape, even when I worked there 10 years ago.
    Last edited by ScottieA; 03-12-2013 at 09:45 AM.
    Don't feed the trolls!

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    Right now the Sherriffs are using it as a training facility as well.

    Had heard that certain social agencies were looking at it. I think it's a terrible idea.
    Parkdale

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Edmonton homeless agencies cast eye on old remand centre

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...448975?cmp=rss

    The province is considering using Edmonton's old remand centre to house homeless people as one of a number of possible future uses.
    That's good news for inner-city agencies having difficulty finding accommodation for their clients.

    Terry Zawatski, who's with the Operation Friendship Senior Society, would like to see a couple of floors devoted to helping older homeless people who need extra help.

    "It's already arranged so it could be easily isolated, easily managed, kept sanitary," she said. "Right now sick people and elderly people and anybody who needs a little care, we're just not looking after them. It's just cruel and inhuman what we're doing to them..making them go to a mat on the floor."

    Meredith Porter of the McCauley Community League wonders how that could be done when the city has imposed a moratorium on such inner city projects.

    "If neighbourhoods like Terwillegar Town get to say no, then so do we."

    But Alberta Infrastructure said that while no decision is expected on the remand centre for several months, the idea of a homeless shelter is still on the table.

    "That's certainly one of the options being considered," said spokesperson Christine Way.
    What a stupid horrid idea...

    This does nothing to address the stigma of "homelessness" and in my opinion reinforces it.

    Sometimes these agencies need to stop looking at their own navel and look at the broader mandate.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    Perhaps... but the building has good bones and a lot of areas would be well set up for many needs right now. We should ensure we look at repurposing it before tearing it or anything down for that matter... and as a matter of fact, we are looking at repurposing it.
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    If I were homeless, I would give a darn for "symbolism".

    Eve

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    Exactly... especially in this weather.

    That said, I do recognize the concern and we would need to do something really nice with the building to ensure it is welcoming and inviting... at the moment it is neither.
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    .. then lets turn it into free aboriginal housing.. ( what kind of message does that send. A jail cell is not a home even if you have freedom. Exposed open air toilets, no windows, communal showers.

    Optics is a HUGE issue when dealing with populations that are marginalized and stigmatized. What about people that experienced trauma in the remand center, are you going to say go back to that place or get nothing?

    I am sorry but putting the mentally ill and homeless in jail cells, no matter what the benevolent intent is behind it is simply WRONG.
    Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 03-12-2013 at 09:55 AM.
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    I called Terry and had a nice conversation with her... It seems that CBC is cherry picking out a very small part of what they talked about and has chosen to make this their headline.

    She will be talking to CBC. I hope they print a better article.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    Oh, I agree, Ian. But if the building has good bones, then making it more homey might be a matter of basic interior decoration. I've never been in there so I can't speak specifically. I do know that in my days of poverty, I lived in all sorts of strange places and was grateful for a place to store my gear and lay my head. A place with good bones would have been a treat.

    Eve

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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    If I were homeless, I would give a darn for "symbolism".

    Eve

    FIXED!




  97. #97

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    Terry said that currently there is only one place where elderly people with high needs on the street can stay. I totally agree with her that a facility is needed but I say build it, put in place home care and get these people in to a regular apartment or a barrier free one.

    Social segregation housed within a building that looks and is remembered as a jail is not the answer.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    Quote Originally Posted by DTrobotnik View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    If I were homeless, I would give a darn for "symbolism".

    Eve

    FIXED!

    ]
    OMG I think I just barfed in my mouth lol.

    Does anyone remember the old Picasso apartment buildings?
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    I miss those.
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    This area IS shouldering enough of this city's social issues. This area has a moratorium acknowledging that fact.

    Call Terwillegar Towne Home Owner's Association and the Anglican Diocese - maybe vulnerable seniors will be lucky enough to be included in their exclusive "neighbor"hood. Probably not - they will still have to keep the kids indoors.

    Operation Friendship Senior Society operates across the street from my McCauley house. There is few problems, but they use the term "senior" very loosely. A "senior" in one of their facilities could be a 35 year old person.

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