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Thread: Snow and the city Streets

  1. #2601

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    My commuter bike has absolutely hated this brine. Can definitely see a lot more corrosion in the drivetrain

  2. #2602

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    I also think road conditions were better this winter than they have been in previous years, but my standard complaint about the city doing too much dumping of stuff on roads and not enough scraping stuff off of roads still stands.
    I agree with you completely. The city needs to prioritize getting the snow off the streets instead of worrying so much about what to throw onto the snowy streets.

  3. #2603

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    WTF was going on today on East Henday in the morning? Massive backlog with cars in the ditches. There was barely any snow???? Was it that garbage they are spraying on the Henday again. That stuff is extremely dangerous to life and limb it appears or do we just have idiots on the road?

  4. #2604

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    idiots on the road. The Henday is dry.

    The stuff they spray on the Henday is a bit different than what ever mixture the city salts their roads with. The solution works well, when applied at the right time, and in the right conditions, under the right circumstances. The city last year tried to use it as the be-all end-all solution to snow remove/clearing... like anything, you shouldn't place all your eggs in one basket, but that seems like the MO for this city.

  5. #2605
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    Not sure the CC was s[prayed prior to the weekend snow - it has to be laid down before the snow falls.

    I know - and appreciate - folk's concerns. But personally, I love it. And I drive a 14 year old Honda!

    Perhaps the CC needs to be used with more discretion, fine. And maybe if cyclists don't want it on the cycle paths - we should agree to that.

    But on streets and especially hills - hopefully the CoE sticks with the program.
    ... gobsmacked

  6. #2606

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    Quote Originally Posted by happydays View Post
    WTF was going on today on East Henday in the morning? Massive backlog with cars in the ditches. There was barely any snow???? Was it that garbage they are spraying on the Henday again. That stuff is extremely dangerous to life and limb it appears or do we just have idiots on the road?
    What time was this? I was on SouthEast Henday 6:30am and no problem at all on All seasons and very good traction and dry roads. Not one car in the ditch anywhere.


    I suspect we have bad drivers but can't imagine how people went off road into ditches this AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  7. #2607

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Not sure the CC was s[prayed prior to the weekend snow - it has to be laid down before the snow falls.

    I know - and appreciate - folk's concerns. But personally, I love it. And I drive a 14 year old Honda!

    Perhaps the CC needs to be used with more discretion, fine. And maybe if cyclists don't want it on the cycle paths - we should agree to that.

    But on streets and especially hills - hopefully the CoE sticks with the program.
    I love it too. Really makes for great driving conditions at least 90% of the winter. For sure it could be optional on Cycle and multiuse paths as I do not find it helps walkers/cyclists that much. Does help on road surfaces. I don't worry much about the rust as most vehicles these days seem to be 10yr disposables if that. By the time rust impacts majorly the vehicle is not operating. I don't drive a honda though. Hyundai don't last as long but also cost a lot less.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  8. #2608

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Not sure the CC was s[prayed prior to the weekend snow - it has to be laid down before the snow falls.

    I know - and appreciate - folk's concerns. But personally, I love it. And I drive a 14 year old Honda!

    Perhaps the CC needs to be used with more discretion, fine. And maybe if cyclists don't want it on the cycle paths - we should agree to that.

    But on streets and especially hills - hopefully the CoE sticks with the program.
    I found that on bike paths they often sprayed when there was no snow and none in the forecast, so paths would remain wetted for weeks... and then it would snow several inches, enough that whatever brine was left would be just enough so that the snow would stick but not melt rather than blow away.

    I would rather the city work on reasonably prompt snow clearing, and brine/salt ONLY when lanes and paths are icy with sleet like yesterday and today, or with freezing rain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Not sure the CC was s[prayed prior to the weekend snow - it has to be laid down before the snow falls.

    I know - and appreciate - folk's concerns. But personally, I love it. And I drive a 14 year old Honda!

    Perhaps the CC needs to be used with more discretion, fine. And maybe if cyclists don't want it on the cycle paths - we should agree to that.

    But on streets and especially hills - hopefully the CoE sticks with the program.

    Agree, I am in favour of using de-icer. Much cleaner in the spring and the had far less ice and build up. What do cities such as Ottawa, Montreal and Calgary use and what are their complaints, if any?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    My commuter bike has absolutely hated this brine. Can definitely see a lot more corrosion in the drivetrain
    The grit from the "oatmeal" that formed when the city used sand was just as bad for chewing up bicycle drivetrains. At least the brine makes the ride much more pleasant.

  11. #2611

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    disagree. The sand would muck up the drive train, easily to wash off occasionally. The salt brine needs to wipe your chain and drivetrain after every commute, especially if you have the luxury of storing your bike in a heated garage. I certainly noticed a difference.

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    Cured concrete will be okay, that woman was on drugs!
    They will have to replace city vehicles sooner, because they aren't washed that often...
    People have every right to be angry...tsk tsk.

  13. #2613
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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Cured concrete will be okay, that woman was on drugs!
    They will have to replace city vehicles sooner, because they aren't washed that often...
    People have every right to be angry...tsk tsk.
    So wash them more frequently.

  14. #2614

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Not sure the CC was s[prayed prior to the weekend snow - it has to be laid down before the snow falls.

    I know - and appreciate - folk's concerns. But personally, I love it. And I drive a 14 year old Honda!

    Perhaps the CC needs to be used with more discretion, fine. And maybe if cyclists don't want it on the cycle paths - we should agree to that.

    But on streets and especially hills - hopefully the CoE sticks with the program.
    I love it too. Really makes for great driving conditions at least 90% of the winter. For sure it could be optional on Cycle and multiuse paths as I do not find it helps walkers/cyclists that much. Does help on road surfaces. I don't worry much about the rust as most vehicles these days seem to be 10yr disposables if that. By the time rust impacts majorly the vehicle is not operating. I don't drive a honda though. Hyundai don't last as long but also cost a lot less.
    I found that:
    - sometimes the ice was everywhere last year (no sandy strip beside the ice runs to pull onto to get grip)

    - the spray being kicked up caused longer periods of poorer visibility for me. (More car washes and squeegeeing the windows) Plus more use of windshield washer fluid. So I likely I had more periods of poorer visibility out my side windows too. If this perception was real, then I wonder but am not sure if this would translate city-wide into more net accidents (possibly at higher speeds than simply sliding into rear ends ) but Iíd guess that it would be a possibility.

    If the corrosive effect is worse then this might be affecting a lot more than the vehicles. (Is there an impact on bridges, railings, drainage systems, etc?)

    Also, if vehicles rust faster that severely and negatively impacts the local economy. It might create more repair and replacement (sales) jobs but thatís poor capital allocation since vehicles are an imported good, and any early replacement drains huge amounts of wealth out of the city. If so thatís being penny wise and pound foolish.
    Last edited by KC; 10-10-2018 at 02:54 PM.

  15. #2615

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    If this shortens the average vehicle's life from 13 to 12 years then if there are 500,000 vehicles in the city and each costs an average of 30,000, then there's almost $100m per year drained from the local economy. That's got to be added to the cash outlay to figure out the real cost of our snow clearing system.
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  16. #2616

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    If this shortens the average vehicle's life from 13 to 12 years then if there are 500,000 vehicles in the city and each costs an average of 30,000, then there's almost $100m per year drained from the local economy. That's got to be added to the cash outlay to figure out the real cost of our snow clearing system.
    Wheres the stat that the average vehicle life is 13years? Would also be interested in the mode lifespan. I know so many people that only driver their vehicles for a few years and then get new ones. Seems like so many people do that and that people treat vehicles as disposables. Leases and such also reinforce this. Not to mention that vehicles in general are so poorly engineered that rust is the last think you have to worry about aside from mufflers.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  17. #2617

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    Totally pulled that number from my arse.

    But I have a dying 13-year-old vehicle. Those traded-in 3-4 year old cars all find a new owner.
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  18. #2618

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Totally pulled that number from my arse.

    But I have a dying 13-year-old vehicle. Those traded-in 3-4 year old cars all find a new owner.
    I live in Millwoods and I rarely see any vehicle on the road that's over a decade old. Like I say I think theres next to no impact in vehicle longevity in actual terms due to anything they put on the roads. Theres also a whole subset of people that would just outright refuse to have a vehicle without the latest bells and whistles. Depreciation also suggests the average vehicle is worth a negligible amount after 10yrs. For most people, what ends up shelving vehicles is when the cost of a massive repair exceeds the vehicle worth. Its planned obsolescence from the industry. Design vehicles that specifically require more than reasonable labor hours to service and that involve overboard on parts that can fail and that are required. Its an industry that exists on people ditching vehicles regularly (which I never do given any other choice but a lemon)
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  19. #2619

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    Found this:

    "The average age of vehicles in Canada has also risen since 2005, according to Polk data. Industry analyst Dennis DesRosiers estimates that the average vehicle hit an age of 8.57 years in 2011."

    I wouldn't doubt that more of the vehicles over 10-12 years old are summer cars or field trucks or otherwise driven less than newer cars but apparently the average car lasts over 15 years. Doesn't say whether this is a mean or a median.
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    Just a FWIW, but I've been driving my GMC Jimmy for 17 of its 21 years and there's only minimal surface rust in the expected spots - rear doorstep and a couple of wheelarches. I get value for money out of my wheels.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Cured concrete will be okay, that woman was on drugs!
    They will have to replace city vehicles sooner, because they aren't washed that often...
    People have every right to be angry...tsk tsk.
    So wash them more frequently.
    Yes, that's in everyone's budget..and the city vehicles will come out of yours!

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  22. #2622

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Found this:

    "The average age of vehicles in Canada has also risen since 2005, according to Polk data. Industry analyst Dennis DesRosiers estimates that the average vehicle hit an age of 8.57 years in 2011."

    I wouldn't doubt that more of the vehicles over 10-12 years old are summer cars or field trucks or otherwise driven less than newer cars but apparently the average car lasts over 15 years. Doesn't say whether this is a mean or a median.
    Since we've had this convo I've looked at some of the research. Seems to be a range of information, very brand and model specific, and of concern to me is this is industry cited data. I don't see a lot in terms of fully independent study. Of course manufacturers will want to fudge data any way they can to make it look like their product lasts longer. I tend to believe very little that comes out of the auto industry in terms of track record.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  23. #2623

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    Today seems like an ideal day for calcium chloride. Has anyone seen any?

  24. #2624

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    The city reported that they chose not to spread the deicer before the snow for various reasons

  25. #2625

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    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Today seems like an ideal day for calcium chloride. Has anyone seen any?
    Why would it be required. It is not nearly cold enough for the snow to represent a problem on any road surfaces. Its mostly melting on contact on roads and with the temp now just above zero its melting period. Using it would be overkill. Ideally its use is in -10-20 kinds of conditions.


    Freezing prevention isn't really that much required today.

    Anybody having trouble with traction or road conditions today should probably just sell or park their vehicle for the entire winter.


    If they used chloride in these wet conditions its only going to result in vehicle rusting, massive runoff into river, etc. Worst usage would be at these melt temps.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  26. #2626

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    Now that said, I imagine theres hundreds of poor drivers that managed to get into a collision this Am apparently forgetting that Edmonton is a winter city and we occasionally have white stuff on road ways.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  27. #2627

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Today seems like an ideal day for calcium chloride. Has anyone seen any?
    Why would it be required. It is not nearly cold enough for the snow to represent a problem on any road surfaces. Its mostly melting on contact on roads and with the temp now just above zero its melting period. Using it would be overkill. Ideally its use is in -10-20 kinds of conditions.


    Freezing prevention isn't really that much required today.

    Anybody having trouble with traction or road conditions today should probably just sell or park their vehicle for the entire winter.


    If they used chloride in these wet conditions its only going to result in vehicle rusting, massive runoff into river, etc. Worst usage would be at these melt temps.
    Do you even live in the same city as the rest of us?

    Many main roads had a layer of ice on them even at 2 pm this afternoon. Fox Drive has been closed because it's impassable.

    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...s-to-the-south


  28. #2628

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    ^Some routes should be avoided. Due to microclimate river valley effects I've found that Whitemud near river, Quesnel bridge, and fox drive can be notoriously different than almost anywhere else. Fox Drive also being the worst because its hidden from any sunlight. But mostly these are effects of the river valley having a different climate, and being somewhat colder and moister.


    Do you not ever alter routes or anticipate some routes being the worst in the whole city?


    Whitemud south was fine all day, Millwoods driving fine all day.


    But in this temperature with wet snow conditions people should ALWAYS be more careful around river valley roads, bridges and conditions. I would think any driver here would know this. I would simply avoid those routes.
    Last edited by Replacement; 02-11-2018 at 04:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Now that said, I imagine there's hundreds of poor drivers that managed to get into a collision this Am apparently forgetting that Edmonton is a winter city and we occasionally have white stuff on road ways.
    THIS is the key to why there are so many problems. BAD skill sets or lack therof,and lack of proper training in winter driving. I doubt salt,calcium chloride sand or any other remediation would prevent pi$$ poor drivers from getting into this...
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  30. #2630

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    Putting down salt, chloride or sand an hour BEFORE the snow falls can be a huge benefit to get out ahead of conditions and prevent a base layer of ice. Throwing the same on top 50mm of snow turns it into oatmeal and may not get down to the ice before the sand and snow gets plowed to the curb. This is why I am against the 50mm wait before blading policy. In many other cities the sand and salt trucks are circulating before the storm starts and hit hard and fast as the first flakes fly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Putting down salt, chloride or sand an hour BEFORE the snow falls can be a huge benefit to get out ahead of conditions and prevent a base layer of ice. Throwing the same on top 50mm of snow turns it into oatmeal and may not get down to the ice before the sand and snow gets plowed to the curb. This is why I am against the 50mm wait before blading policy. In many other cities the sand and salt trucks are circulating before the storm starts and hit hard and fast as the first flakes fly.
    Have you forgotten of which city you speak? LOLOL This is good common sense. Thus it will NEVER be utilized by the city.
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  32. #2632

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    Right. Common sense; the rarest element known to mankind.

    Here the COE admits that they could have done better. Chosen not to act makes them responsible for at least some of the extreme conditions and any attempt to prevent the base ice buildup. Confirms my previous post.
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...nton-1.4888970
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 03-11-2018 at 08:17 AM.
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  33. #2633

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    ^\yeah I dunno. From a lot of reports and even that article the issue was more people not slowing down. "People whizzing by."

    In anycase, and this isn't new, the first major snow freeze of the year is usually a unique road event and it was raining before the snow and DURING the night with the coldest possible daily temps. More of a perfect storm of weather **** than something I would be blaming the city for. It happens. More and more with climactic conditions we're getting these ****** weather events. But heres the thing. Did ANYBODY in the city stay home, take a snow day. does everybody have to be going to school, shopping, working, out on the road on these rare freak weather days?

    Anybody that's lived here any length of time knows the first winter blast driving event in this city is always a gong show with hundreds of collisions. ALWAYS. Because a lot of drivers out there have the winter driving memory of goldfish.

    Just because the city has greater arsenal of proactive applicants and procedures, doesn't imo make them responsible. They made a judgement call, at the air temps I too was surprised that there was any ice buildup. Normally there would be more snow melting on contact at these conditions. But because it snowed all night over night it was harder to see what it was going to be like. For sure the morning drive would be dicey but who would have thought the afternoon drive would have been difficult with temps above zero. All the sidewalks were fine, no prob walking anywhere, and no ice. Its all the vehicle weight and packing the snow in that creates the ice buildup. So in essence drivers creating these road conditions themselves. you could walk anywhere yesterday, it was just wet and sticky snow.
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  34. #2634
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    ^
    living in riverdale and working downtown, a snow day wasnít necessary for me but i have an employee who lives in windermere who was told to take one and did.
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    I am going on a snow shoveling mission for Downtown. I was extremely disappointed in how little was done by yesterday afternoon.
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  36. #2636

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    This was also not a surprise snowfall: it was forecast days in advance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    The city reported that they chose not to spread the deicer before the snow for various reasons
    I'd love to hear them, because it seemed like a textbook day for it last Friday. Most major arterials I saw had packed snow and ice on them, and traction was very poor. And I'm a quite capable driver with AWD and winter tires. I didn't have much of any difficulty, but many did. The roads melted/cleared over the weekend, sure, but the morning and afternoon commutes on Friday were pretty miserable from what I saw and the collision numbers clearly bear that out.

  38. #2638

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    It was something about it raining first... I gave the tv a sideways glance at that point....

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...nton-1.4888970

    Andrew Grant, general supervisor of infrastructure field operations with the City of Edmonton, said more than 70 trucks and other pieces of equipment are being used to clear "very wet and icy, heavy snow" from roadways.More than 150 labourers are working to clear snow from sidewalks and stairs, he said.
    Brine will be used to de-ice roads. But Grant said city crews chose not to use brine on wet roads overnight as an anti-icing agent.
    He said sand is not being used.
    "We'll be back down to bare pavement hopefully in the near future and sand wouldn't provide much traction on bare pavement."

  39. #2639

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    It was something about it raining first... I gave the tv a sideways glance at that point....

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...nton-1.4888970

    Andrew Grant, general supervisor of infrastructure field operations with the City of Edmonton, said more than 70 trucks and other pieces of equipment are being used to clear "very wet and icy, heavy snow" from roadways.More than 150 labourers are working to clear snow from sidewalks and stairs, he said.
    Brine will be used to de-ice roads. But Grant said city crews chose not to use brine on wet roads overnight as an anti-icing agent.
    He said sand is not being used.
    "We'll be back down to bare pavement hopefully in the near future and sand wouldn't provide much traction on bare pavement."

    Emphasis added in bold.

    I guess "Hope" is a new Standard Operating Procedure for the COE. As is, "Eventually" as in Spring will arrive very soon 'so why don't drivers stay home until this white stuff melts in May???'


    When Environment Canada sends this out:

    Environment Canada expects the freezing rain to develop early Friday morning in the Rocky Mountain House and Red Deer areas and move eastward through the day. The freezing rain should end by this afternoon.
    Does the COE not realize that the freezing rain was coming Edmonton's way?
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 05-11-2018 at 12:36 PM.
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  40. #2640

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    No expert, but it was kind of a rare event where the initial rain was formed to ice and then insulated by the snow pack which then packed down and created icy conditions. Conversely sidewalks were NOT icy at all. In effect the act of traffic and nobody staying home resulted in the same conditions people are complaining about.

    Normally this trace amount of ice and snow would be melted easily by the fairly warm temps. But the traffic quickly compressing it made it more immune to warmer air temps than would normally be the case. Its extremely rare that we get really bad patches like this with snow accumulation falling around freezing point. Normally that stuff would melt as traffic heats it up a bit.
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  41. #2641

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    When Environment Canada sends this out:

    Environment Canada expects the freezing rain to develop early Friday morning in the Rocky Mountain House and Red Deer areas and move eastward through the day. The freezing rain should end by this afternoon.
    Does the COE not realize that the freezing rain was coming Edmonton's way?
    I think the significance is overstated. There was hardly a trace of freezing rain on any sidewalks in our area. Was this strictly localized parts of Edmonton that saw the freezing rain?
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    While NOT in regards to roadways, I tried something different on my walks for the ice. Good ol granular fertilizer. It did the same job as the ice melt,and will not damage the concrete nor of course the grass. And , it works out to be less expensive. Khulmans still has the fertilizers out if some of you want to give this a try.
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  43. #2643

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    too much fertilizer use leads to algae blooms ... be careful with that.

    this explains it well http://www.southcoasttoday.com/artic...news/301219894

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    too much fertilizer use leads to algae blooms ... be careful with that.

    this explains it well http://www.southcoasttoday.com/artic...news/301219894
    I use it on my walks only. Not on any city property. Still this article makes a very good argument for alternatives.The ice ban sounds very interesting and worth more investigation. Thanks for the info.!!
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  45. #2645

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    doesn't matter where you use it, it all washes down the drain at some point, and the algae blooms in lakes/rivers...

  46. #2646

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    Same with salt and brine and beet juice and anything else you use.

    Salt is far harder to remove from the waste stream.

    Fertilizer is absorbed by vegetation but salt is not.
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  47. #2647

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    please read the link I supplied earlier... Fertilizer is not absorbed by vegetation in the middle of winter, and when it melts, its washed down the drain.... soooooo algae blooms.

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    Ultimately, we have to ask which will do more harm. Salt or fertilizer. If I had to bet,salt would be more destructive than fertilizer to both infrastructure and environment. Still, I'm looking at options to eliminate both if possible.
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  49. #2649

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    Every lawn care fertilizer recommends a fall treatment of fertilizer for nutrition of dormant roots. Kind of find that odd and suspect most of it just leeches off. Wouldn't the fertilizer applied late also contribute to other organism spread, snow mold, muchrooms etc?


    In anycase applying fertilizer on lawns is going to run off some anytime it rains but more when winter and melts hit. Seems like a small amount on sidewalks would be insignificant compared to normal usage.
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    A single application of fertilizer on a porous lawn where it has a chance to absorb and has a bit of a journey to hit any sort of drainage is not the same or comparable to multiple applications throughout the winter of the same fertilizer on a sidewalk designed to shed melt/water into the drainage system.

  51. #2651

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    The referenced article was from New Bedford, MA not Alberta. Our conditions are far different.

    First of all, algae does not grow in winter. Secondly, all our runoff heads down the river and into Hudsons Bay where water temperatures are low. None feeds into lakes. Most of the runoff will be gone either within a few days or by late April. Salt is toxic too.

    Yes, using too much of anything is a problem but algae blooms from Edmonton runoff is not a major concern.

    You could reason that the exhaust from my neighbours old snowblower is more of a harm to the environment.

    Should we ban them too?
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  52. #2652

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Every lawn care fertilizer recommends a fall treatment of fertilizer for nutrition of dormant roots. Kind of find that odd and suspect most of it just leeches off. Wouldn't the fertilizer applied late also contribute to other organism spread, snow mold, muchrooms etc?


    In anycase applying fertilizer on lawns is going to run off some anytime it rains but more when winter and melts hit. Seems like a small amount on sidewalks would be insignificant compared to normal usage.
    Increases sales.

    With freezing temperatures the fertilizer likely first prevents some freezing near the surface but then as it dilutes I’d guess that it only sinks a bit into the ground. Lack of rainfall would mean there’s no moisture to carry it deeper anyway. The snow will just float overhead all winter. In the spring most snow just evaporates away until it’s nearly all gone. We don’t get many rapid melts here. So I don’t see how a fall application does much. Plus wouldn’t roots absorb nutrients in alignment with and coincidental to seasonal patterns (spring and summer growth and winter dormancy) and not counter-cyclical to them?
    Last edited by KC; 07-11-2018 at 07:35 AM.

  53. #2653

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The referenced article was from New Bedford, MA not Alberta. Our conditions are far different.

    First of all, algae does not grow in winter. Secondly, all our runoff heads down the river and into Hudsons Bay where water temperatures are low. None feeds into lakes. Most of the runoff will be gone either within a few days or by late April. Salt is toxic too.

    Yes, using too much of anything is a problem but algae blooms from Edmonton runoff is not a major concern.

    You could reason that the exhaust from my neighbours old snowblower is more of a harm to the environment.

    Should we ban them too?
    Great points

    However it highlights how concentrated anything we use must become as it is contained in the river (the sewer line to Hudson’s Bay)

  54. #2654

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The referenced article was from New Bedford, MA not Alberta. Our conditions are far different.
    please elaborate. What makes it far different?


    First of all, algae does not grow in winter. Secondly, all our runoff heads down the river and into Hudsons Bay where water temperatures are low. None feeds into lakes. Most of the runoff will be gone either within a few days or by late April. Salt is toxic too.
    I know you've been gone from Edmonton for many many years, but this is wrong. Lots of our runoff heads into storm water management ponds before making its way to the river.


    Yes, using too much of anything is a problem but algae blooms from Edmonton runoff is not a major concern.
    Sure but add in all that from agriculture, and other uses... it adds up. My single vehicle idling all day isn't contributing much to global warming either.


    You could reason that the exhaust from my neighbours old snowblower is more of a harm to the environment.

    Should we ban them too?
    "more harmful" how so? Sounds like your typical MO of over-exaggeration

  55. #2655

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    New Bedford MA has a tenth of the population, and the weather is coastal, with average winter lows just below freezing and 240% more precipitation.

    Of course there are stormwater management ponds but you know they are only temporary holding ponds that are then routed to the river. They are not lakes.


    I use mostly elbow grease and a good shovel & ice chipper. I put recycled rubber mats on stairs which makes ice removal simple. If needed, I use fine gravel and a limited amount of salt. Everything in moderation.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 07-11-2018 at 09:37 AM.
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  56. #2656

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    I only use ice melt when absolutely needed.

    I see some businesses and homeowners use it all the time...

    the location of where that article was written has no bearing on the discussion here. I only used the article to highlight the point that fertilizer as an ice melt may have unintended other side effects. The size of the community the article was written really doesn't matter, nor its location. I can find you other articles from other municipalities if you so desire, but feel you are just being obtuse, because, well, that's what you do.
    Last edited by Medwards; 07-11-2018 at 12:06 PM.

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    I have for years done something to prevent run off to a degree. Instead of raking all my leaves, They are left and more is added. This puts a insulative layer on the lawn preventing tranevaporation which tends to lock in the moisture and fertilizer I applied this fall. It also reduces run off in the spring in that the snow melt is soaked into the leaf cover as the turf warms below. So, the fertilizer I apply this winter ends up in the turf for the most part. This reduces the water I use come spring,protects my turf and helps keep my walks safe for those who use it. It's not bullet proof. However, it does help with runoff which can be a big issue.
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  58. #2658

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    Bullet proof or not, this is something that didn't even registered in my head until now, so thanks for that suggestion. I'll definitely keep that I mind.
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    20 cm of snow over the last 36 hours and I saw no evidence of plowing this morning. Does the city seriously think they can just melt all of this with more salt?

  60. #2660
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    They've been out and plowing since it started.

    I've shoveled my driveway 3x and I need to do it again, how do you think that translates to roads? Snow re-accumulates plus idiots don't brush off their entire vehicle which adds more.

  61. #2661
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    I didn't see a single windrow this morning. I didn't expect bare roads, but I did expect that the process of moving the snow to the center of the road for eventual collection would have been started.

  62. #2662

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    We're on a bus route and not one plow yet. We've had a foot of snow.

    The bonus is no windrows yet...
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    My wife's commute to downtown took 5 minutes longer today. Call the police.

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    I know it's not a City road, but AHD was fine yesterday. Just wet, mainly. I'll be out on it again today, probably be like a summer road.
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    My commute was fine, but I'm with the others in that I did not see any evidence of plowing done on 102 or 104 avenues downtown, 116 Street North out of downtown, or in the 118th avenue and 149 street area. None whatsoever as of 7:30 this morning.

  66. #2666
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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    I know it's not a City road, but AHD was fine yesterday. Just wet, mainly. I'll be out on it again today, probably be like a summer road.
    Yellowhead mysteriously improved upon leaving the city yesterday as well, with readily visible evidence that snow had been plowed into the ditch. Melting with salt is fine for the light dustings we've had, but a big dump needs to be scraped off. It isn't necessary to go right to pavement if it is still snowing, but there shouldn't be 10 cm of slush either. Now that it has stopped snowing, the final sparks flying, scraping to pavement pass should be starting.

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    14.5 inches or 36.83 cms here in the East end. Spent most of the day plowing and pulling 2 wheel drive vehicles, some WITH snow tires out of the quagmire. As of 4:30,111 ave still no sign of a plow of butter knife truck. Thank God for 4 wheel drive.
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    This afternoon around 3:30 no evidence of plowing along 87 Ave. from Lewis Estates to 159 St. Neither on Terwillegar Drive from Whitemud down to AHD.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  69. #2669

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    10pm on a bus route. Not one plow has been buy yet. Not all weekend, not tonight, not at all. Thing is you know they'll create a bunch of windrows and you'll need a pickaxe to clear any path tomorrow connecting sidewalks so people can walk anywhere.

    Its not necessary to wait till midnight to clear roads. It stopped snowing at noon. WTF?
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  70. #2670

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    All the promises made by the COE and the Transportation Department are null and void.

    Heavy snowfall hits Edmonton, seasonal parking ban in effect Tuesday
    https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/heavy-sn...sday-1.4202162
    A seasonal parking ban will be in effect Tuesday at 1 a.m. after the Edmonton area received more than 30 centimetres of snow over the weekend.


    After nearly two days of constant snow, the City of Edmonton said all of its snow-clearing equipment and resources were out on the roads.
    They knew this storm was coming, why did they not declare the snow route ban on Sunday and have all the cars off the routes on Monday morning? Why wait to declare a SRB. Are they worried to hurt resident's feelings? Places like Spokane are far more proactive in declaring SRB's the day BEFORE the storm.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 04-12-2018 at 08:16 AM.
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  71. #2671

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    Fruck I swear to god you all have dementia, especially EPRT

    First off, the city was out plowing Saturday and Sunday night. They clear the valley hills and the freeways until the snow stops

    Once the snow stops (ie Monday morning) they start clearing the arterial roads

    Once that's done, they declare a parkking ban on snow routes, and clear the lesser roads.


    It's like I repeat this to you every year, and every year, you ask the same question.

    Why bother clearing minor roads when you are just going to come back to do them again once the snow actually stops... That's not efficient, effective or very EPRT

    I know EPRT doesn't live in Edmonton anymore and hasn't for a very long time now, but the roads were in great shape this morning.

    Kudos to the city of Edmonton for doing a great job in a short amount of time after over a foot of snow has fallen in some areas in less than 48 hours.
    Last edited by Medwards; 04-12-2018 at 09:04 AM.

  72. #2672

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    You are the one with a mug full of hate.

    I was speaking of the snow route ban on bus routes and major arterials. Did I even mention plowing?

    Nope

    You are delusional accusing me of something I never even mentioned.

    BTW I was in Edmonton last week from Monday to Thursday.
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  73. #2673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Fruck I swear to god you all have dementia, especially EPRT

    First off, the city was out plowing Saturday and Sunday night. They clear the valley hills and the freeways until the snow stops

    Once the snow stops (ie Monday morning) they start clearing the arterial roads

    Once that's done, they declare a parkking ban on snow routes, and clear the lesser roads.


    It's like I repeat this to you every year, and every year, you ask the same question.

    Why bother clearing minor roads when you are just going to come back to do them again once the snow actually stops... That's not efficient, effective or very EPRT

    I know EPRT doesn't live in Edmonton anymore and hasn't for a very long time now, but the roads were in great shape this morning.

    Kudos to the city of Edmonton for doing a great job in a short amount of time after over a foot of snow has fallen in some areas in less than 48 hours.
    there you go, trying to counter cherry picking and preexisting fixed opinions with actual facts...

    most people iíve run across were relatively little inconvenienced by the yearís first major snowfall. except - according to media reports - those trying to get out of transit centres that hadnít been plowed or trying to get across bridges that no longer allow busses...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  74. #2674

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    You are the one with a mug full of hate.

    I was speaking of the snow route ban on bus routes and major arterials. Did I even mention plowing?

    Nope

    You are delusional accusing me of something I never even mentioned.

    BTW I was in Edmonton last week from Monday to Thursday.
    you dont need to mention plowing. What do you think happens when a parking ban occurs? What exactly are you talking about then? Why should the COE prematurely?

  75. #2675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    You are the one with a mug full of hate.

    I was speaking of the snow route ban on bus routes and major arterials. Did I even mention plowing?

    Nope

    You are delusional accusing me of something I never even mentioned.

    BTW I was in Edmonton last week from Monday to Thursday.
    the only reason to have a snow route ban is to allow for plowing... why would you want a ban without plowing???

    as for plowing on bus routes and major arterials, that takes place without waiting for a snow route ban to be called.

    the major arterials have parking restrictions already where parking is allowed (and it isn't allowed on many major arterials at any time) that allows them to be plowed curb to curb without having to put a snow route ban in place.

    the snow route ban is probably more effective in snow removal operations, not plowing, and there's not much point in commencing that until the snow has stopped.

    as for knowing to the hour when a major snow storm is going to stop, how many millions of dollars do you want to gamble every time there's a major snow storm that the weather is never going to change from what was forecast by the hour? you can't mobilize and demobilize and remobilize the labour and the equipment involved city wide during a snow route ban with little to no notice if you're wrong.
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  76. #2676

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    You are the one with a mug full of hate.

    I was speaking of the snow route ban on bus routes and major arterials. Did I even mention plowing?

    Nope

    You are delusional accusing me of something I never even mentioned.

    BTW I was in Edmonton last week from Monday to Thursday.
    the only reason to have a snow route ban is to allow for plowing... why would you want a ban without plowing???

    as for plowing on bus routes and major arterials, that takes place without waiting for a snow route ban to be called.

    the major arterials have parking restrictions already where parking is allowed (and it isn't allowed on many major arterials at any time) that allows them to be plowed curb to curb without having to put a snow route ban in place.

    the snow route ban is probably more effective in snow removal operations, not plowing, and there's not much point in commencing that until the snow has stopped.

    as for knowing to the hour when a major snow storm is going to stop, how many millions of dollars do you want to gamble every time there's a major snow storm that the weather is never going to change from what was forecast by the hour? you can't mobilize and demobilize and remobilize the labour and the equipment involved city wide during a snow route ban with little to no notice if you're wrong.
    We're right on a bus route and no plowing has occurred at anytime since the snowfall. Actually we haven't seen one grader or plow all winter. Not one. Busses are having significant difficulty getting into and out of the bus stops and not too curiously due to the fact that there is pack ice underneath the snow pac. So that spinning and polishing is easy to achieve. This has resulted in such things as busses stopping far from the curb and not letting passengers off at the curb because if they park at the curb its harder to accelerate out of the stop.

    Now personally it doesn't impact me. But this is the same COE that will send out graders throwing sparks grading next to dry roads later in the year when they figure they have to burn some snow removal budget. But a one foot snow dump doesn't elicit plowing on our front street bus route?
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  77. #2677
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    Why would you need to have seen one before this last snowfall?

  78. #2678

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    It would be nice to see a bit more plowing early on, on these bigger snowfalls it would be worthwhile to get more snow out of the way earlier especially on major bus routes.

    I bike more than I drive and I've noticed some things done worse than previous years. They've spread brine on top of snow which does no one any good, but that's minor.

    I've noticed on multi-use paths that rather than just stopping clearing at crosswalks like previous years, which can be bad enough, but they're actually clearing the paths fairly nicely but then dumping the snow right in the middle of the path at the crosswalk. Which pretty much makes all those nice cleared paths useless to anyone with reduced mobility.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    You are the one with a mug full of hate.

    I was speaking of the snow route ban on bus routes and major arterials. Did I even mention plowing?

    Nope

    You are delusional accusing me of something I never even mentioned.

    BTW I was in Edmonton last week from Monday to Thursday.
    the only reason to have a snow route ban is to allow for plowing... why would you want a ban without plowing???

    as for plowing on bus routes and major arterials, that takes place without waiting for a snow route ban to be called.

    the major arterials have parking restrictions already where parking is allowed (and it isn't allowed on many major arterials at any time) that allows them to be plowed curb to curb without having to put a snow route ban in place.

    the snow route ban is probably more effective in snow removal operations, not plowing, and there's not much point in commencing that until the snow has stopped.

    as for knowing to the hour when a major snow storm is going to stop, how many millions of dollars do you want to gamble every time there's a major snow storm that the weather is never going to change from what was forecast by the hour? you can't mobilize and demobilize and remobilize the labour and the equipment involved city wide during a snow route ban with little to no notice if you're wrong.
    We're right on a bus route and no plowing has occurred at anytime since the snowfall. Actually we haven't seen one grader or plow all winter. Not one. Busses are having significant difficulty getting into and out of the bus stops and not too curiously due to the fact that there is pack ice underneath the snow pac. So that spinning and polishing is easy to achieve. This has resulted in such things as busses stopping far from the curb and not letting passengers off at the curb because if they park at the curb its harder to accelerate out of the stop.

    Now personally it doesn't impact me. But this is the same COE that will send out graders throwing sparks grading next to dry roads later in the year when they figure they have to burn some snow removal budget. But a one foot snow dump doesn't elicit plowing on our front street bus route?
    we're also on a local bus route (308 and 309) and our experience is a lot different than yours because they get lots of attention (much of it the simply shake your head at as the convoys travel down the street one way and then convoy back when the street was as clean as our sidewalk to begin with) . it may have something to do with the plowing and sanding needed for cameron avenue and rowland road and making efficient use of equipment that is out anyway when their routes are being planned but what might make sense for those stretches certainly isn't needed for the entire route. as with you, personally it doesn't impact me other than knowing we're all paying for it and knowing that there are other areas that could make better use of those resources.
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  80. #2680

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    You are the one with a mug full of hate.

    I was speaking of the snow route ban on bus routes and major arterials. Did I even mention plowing?

    Nope

    You are delusional accusing me of something I never even mentioned.

    BTW I was in Edmonton last week from Monday to Thursday.
    the only reason to have a snow route ban is to allow for plowing... why would you want a ban without plowing???

    as for plowing on bus routes and major arterials, that takes place without waiting for a snow route ban to be called.

    the major arterials have parking restrictions already where parking is allowed (and it isn't allowed on many major arterials at any time) that allows them to be plowed curb to curb without having to put a snow route ban in place.

    the snow route ban is probably more effective in snow removal operations, not plowing, and there's not much point in commencing that until the snow has stopped.

    as for knowing to the hour when a major snow storm is going to stop, how many millions of dollars do you want to gamble every time there's a major snow storm that the weather is never going to change from what was forecast by the hour? you can't mobilize and demobilize and remobilize the labour and the equipment involved city wide during a snow route ban with little to no notice if you're wrong.
    What millions of dollars are you speaking of?

    Calling a snow route ban costs almost nothing. If they call a ban and it does not snow excessively, the COE is not obligated to plow. Is it not better to be proactive than reactive?

    The whole point of a snow route ban is to make plowing faster, more effective and efficient. Crews can plow at faster speeds, uninhibited by parked cars.

    Getting park cars off the street gives the option of clearing just the lane or pushing the snow right to the curb or they remove all the snow from curb to curb.


    I don't see what the conflict is.
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  81. #2681

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Why would you need to have seen one before this last snowfall?
    I don't. But typically we see plows and graders here throwing sparks on dry roads, like I stated.

    I actually don't mind that the plowing hasn't occurred here, no Windrows, yay!


    But the busses don't much like it. Or that the wide road has been converted to now less than a two way and so that anytime a bus or large vehicle is coming people driving the opposite way stop and wait for the pass..
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  82. #2682
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    You are the one with a mug full of hate.

    I was speaking of the snow route ban on bus routes and major arterials. Did I even mention plowing?

    Nope

    You are delusional accusing me of something I never even mentioned.

    BTW I was in Edmonton last week from Monday to Thursday.
    the only reason to have a snow route ban is to allow for plowing... why would you want a ban without plowing???

    as for plowing on bus routes and major arterials, that takes place without waiting for a snow route ban to be called.

    the major arterials have parking restrictions already where parking is allowed (and it isn't allowed on many major arterials at any time) that allows them to be plowed curb to curb without having to put a snow route ban in place.

    the snow route ban is probably more effective in snow removal operations, not plowing, and there's not much point in commencing that until the snow has stopped.

    as for knowing to the hour when a major snow storm is going to stop, how many millions of dollars do you want to gamble every time there's a major snow storm that the weather is never going to change from what was forecast by the hour? you can't mobilize and demobilize and remobilize the labour and the equipment involved city wide during a snow route ban with little to no notice if you're wrong.
    What millions of dollars are you speaking of?

    Calling a snow route ban costs almost nothing. If they call a ban and it does not snow excessively, the COE is not obligated to plow. Is it not better to be proactive than reactive?

    The whole point of a snow route ban is to make plowing faster, more effective and efficient. Crews can plow at faster speeds, uninhibited by parked cars.

    Getting park cars off the street gives the option of clearing just the lane or pushing the snow right to the curb or they remove all the snow from curb to curb.


    I don't see what the conflict is.
    what would be the point of calling a ban and not calling on the labour and equipment to be mobilized for its commencement?

    why not put off calling the ban until you're mobilizing the labour and equipment? which is how it's being done now. and which is what you still seem to be complaining about at the same time trying to support.
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  83. #2683
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    On a bus route here (39) totally untouched.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Why would you need to have seen one before this last snowfall?
    I don't. But typically we see plows and graders here throwing sparks on dry roads, like I stated.

    I actually don't mind that the plowing hasn't occurred here, no Windrows, yay!


    But the busses don't much like it. Or that the wide road has been converted to now less than a two way and so that anytime a bus or large vehicle is coming people driving the opposite way stop and wait for the pass..

    We live on a school bus route. In front of the school they had cleared the snow last week. They graded and windrowed our street Sunday night and last night removed the snow. All the cars parked on the sidewalk when they were picking up their kids yesterday. The pedestrians had to walk on the road. As of today I find that the level four roads are quite nicely packed and there aren't any issues.

    Here is a link for clearing progress on level 3 roads in Sherwood Park.

  85. #2685

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    You are the one with a mug full of hate.

    I was speaking of the snow route ban on bus routes and major arterials. Did I even mention plowing?

    Nope

    You are delusional accusing me of something I never even mentioned.

    BTW I was in Edmonton last week from Monday to Thursday.
    the only reason to have a snow route ban is to allow for plowing... why would you want a ban without plowing???

    as for plowing on bus routes and major arterials, that takes place without waiting for a snow route ban to be called.

    the major arterials have parking restrictions already where parking is allowed (and it isn't allowed on many major arterials at any time) that allows them to be plowed curb to curb without having to put a snow route ban in place.

    the snow route ban is probably more effective in snow removal operations, not plowing, and there's not much point in commencing that until the snow has stopped.

    as for knowing to the hour when a major snow storm is going to stop, how many millions of dollars do you want to gamble every time there's a major snow storm that the weather is never going to change from what was forecast by the hour? you can't mobilize and demobilize and remobilize the labour and the equipment involved city wide during a snow route ban with little to no notice if you're wrong.
    What millions of dollars are you speaking of?

    Calling a snow route ban costs almost nothing. If they call a ban and it does not snow excessively, the COE is not obligated to plow. Is it not better to be proactive than reactive?

    The whole point of a snow route ban is to make plowing faster, more effective and efficient. Crews can plow at faster speeds, uninhibited by parked cars.

    Getting park cars off the street gives the option of clearing just the lane or pushing the snow right to the curb or they remove all the snow from curb to curb.


    I don't see what the conflict is.
    what would be the point of calling a ban and not calling on the labour and equipment to be mobilized for its commencement?

    why not put off calling the ban until you're mobilizing the labour and equipment? which is how it's being done now. and which is what you still seem to be complaining about at the same time trying to support.
    After calling a ban, here is an 8-12 hour delay before it comes into effect.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  86. #2686
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    No amount of civic back-patting is going to hide the fact a city 1/10th the size of CoE would have done a better, faster job of making roadways safe. They weren't safe on Sunday and many still aren't.

    Look, it's been a bad season for off and on rain (freezing on contact or later) / snow. I give the CoE some room for that. But there's no excuse at all for Sunday / Monday. That's just the bad old Edmonton instead of the god new Edmonton we'd like to see.

    Worse for me, the snow is hiding the ice, making walking to work out of the questions for awhile. Hello LRT!

    But, that's my problem, not everyone else and not even the CoEs fault.
    ... gobsmacked

  87. #2687

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    You are the one with a mug full of hate.

    I was speaking of the snow route ban on bus routes and major arterials. Did I even mention plowing?

    Nope

    You are delusional accusing me of something I never even mentioned.

    BTW I was in Edmonton last week from Monday to Thursday.
    the only reason to have a snow route ban is to allow for plowing... why would you want a ban without plowing???

    as for plowing on bus routes and major arterials, that takes place without waiting for a snow route ban to be called.

    the major arterials have parking restrictions already where parking is allowed (and it isn't allowed on many major arterials at any time) that allows them to be plowed curb to curb without having to put a snow route ban in place.

    the snow route ban is probably more effective in snow removal operations, not plowing, and there's not much point in commencing that until the snow has stopped.

    as for knowing to the hour when a major snow storm is going to stop, how many millions of dollars do you want to gamble every time there's a major snow storm that the weather is never going to change from what was forecast by the hour? you can't mobilize and demobilize and remobilize the labour and the equipment involved city wide during a snow route ban with little to no notice if you're wrong.
    What millions of dollars are you speaking of?

    Calling a snow route ban costs almost nothing. If they call a ban and it does not snow excessively, the COE is not obligated to plow. Is it not better to be proactive than reactive?

    The whole point of a snow route ban is to make plowing faster, more effective and efficient. Crews can plow at faster speeds, uninhibited by parked cars.

    Getting park cars off the street gives the option of clearing just the lane or pushing the snow right to the curb or they remove all the snow from curb to curb.


    I don't see what the conflict is.
    what would be the point of calling a ban and not calling on the labour and equipment to be mobilized for its commencement?

    why not put off calling the ban until you're mobilizing the labour and equipment? which is how it's being done now. and which is what you still seem to be complaining about at the same time trying to support.
    After calling a ban, here is an 8-12 hour delay before it comes into effect.
    That's why the ban was called yesterday... The first priority of roads gets done first, which isn't on roads where cars park. After those are done, the secondary/bus routes are done.

  88. #2688
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    It's messy downtown, but not bad. Around 109th and jaysper was very greasy.. We saw a couple of fender benders...

  89. #2689
    C2E SME
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    To the city's credit, 102 avenue was pretty spotless as of this morning, with all windrows removed. That's nice, as in years past the city has seen fit to leave them for weeks, but with the reduction in turning and through lanes and the prohibition on various right and left turns, that's not really an option going forward. It'll need to be cleared of windrows immediately after a snowfall, otherwise the revised traffic signals and lanes quickly become nonsensical with half a lane missing.

  90. #2690

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    Not to the City's credit at all is the pathetic leaving of windrows for more than one day on 101 Street from the Chateau Lacombe intersection north past Jasper to at least 102 Avenue thus resulting in partial lane elimination in the core of the business district.

    Last year they removed them within 24 hours of plowing after a major snowfall. Leaving them is what they did for years before last year and I hope they haven't reverted to their old habits.

  91. #2691
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    Windrows were narrowing lanes on 111 Av between 124 St and Groat Road today too. I don't think this is unreasonable for a few days after a major snowstorm, but further west on 111 Av was evidence of some mixed-up priorities - snow had been removed from the median where it could have stayed longer without affecting traffic.

  92. #2692
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    Last edited by Barry N; Yesterday at 05:13 PM.
    Go ahead, speed pass me... I'll meet you at the next red light.

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