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Thread: Snow and the city Streets

  1. #2501

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    Challenging conditions today with about 24 hours of light but persistent snow forecast and cold temperatures. Will be interesting to see how the city responds.

  2. #2502

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    I drove a number of roads this morning. Just fine except for longer than normal backed up traffic - in the normal places - normal due to poor design.

  3. #2503

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    Yeah roads were fine for the most part. Henday was very slick on the west leg from the NS bridge to St Albert trail even though it looked dry for the most part.

  4. #2504

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    Well the roads are pretty slippery this afternoon in my opinion. Traction control going off while going uphill on Fox Drive and Belgravia Road. And yes, I do have winters.

    Saw one maintenance vehicle out there dropping something down. Hopefully it was sand rather than calcium chloride given the temperature.

    Did not see any snowplows.

  5. #2505

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    The roads are fine. And saw a sanding truck.

    However this afternoon heading south over the the Whitemud bridge, traffic was backed up by a semi, crawling along in the left lane with its flashers on. Everyone was swinging into the right lane to get around it. I briefly further slowed down everyone to give the semi driver a chance to start moving to the far right hand lane. The driver did nothing and I got honked at by the person behind me for the common sense curtesy. We’re surrounded by amateurs!

    An hour later heading north, the traffic was at a crawl again because two cars were banged up on thd bridge.




    Cracking Down on Drivers Holding Up the Left Lane | Best States | US News
    By Alexis Wainwright, Contributor
    April 10, 2017,

    "When you're creating a bottleneck of traffic, you're no longer following the basic traffic rules," Folden says. "In driver's ed you're taught to use the left lane to pass and get back over, but somewhere along the line we lost that. People just get in a lane and feel entitled to it and stay there."

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...-the-left-lane

    Bolding mine
    Last edited by KC; 02-02-2018 at 02:45 PM.

  6. #2506
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    The roads are fine. And saw a sanding truck.

    However this afternoon heading south over the the Whitemud bridge, traffic was backed up by a semi, crawling along in the left lane with its flashers on. Everyone was swinging into the right lane to get around it. I briefly further slowed down everyone to give the semi driver a chance to start moving to the far right hand lane. The driver did nothing and I got honked at by the person behind me for the common sense curtesy. We’re surrounded by amateurs!

    An hour later heading north, the traffic was at a crawl again because two cars were banged up on thd bridge.




    Cracking Down on Drivers Holding Up the Left Lane | Best States | US News
    By Alexis Wainwright, Contributor
    April 10, 2017,

    "When you're creating a bottleneck of traffic, you're no longer following the basic traffic rules," Folden says. "In driver's ed you're taught to use the left lane to pass and get back over, but somewhere along the line we lost that. People just get in a lane and feel entitled to it and stay there."

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...-the-left-lane

    Bolding mine
    Well, except for that professional driver. They never do wrong.

  7. #2507

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    Roads weren't too bad on my way home, but people gotta sweep off their cars before venturing out. So many snowy roofs & obscured rear windows.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    Damn straight. That is a huge issue.
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  9. #2509

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    Had a guy, burnt out brakelight on one side. No lights on. Fully obscured rear window AND side mirror. Plus he didn't use his signals. Behind him down 97 Ave today. Scariest part of the drive, so I gave him pleeeeenty of room & got in the other lane once I was clear of the tunnel.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  10. #2510
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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    It is easy for Medwards to read the brand and type on spinning tires of other cars as his eyes spin in their sockets LOL

    More a fetish for winter tires or stocks in Goodyear......

    A fetish for driving safe, and equipping my vehicle so I'm not at the whims of the city and province road clearing schedule. I know, I know, you've driven 75 years on all-season tires and never had an incident, but always the first one to gripe come every snow fall, with fond memories of your childhood in Winterpeg and how they lick cleaned the roads the moment a snowflake fell
    And they still do my little ray of sunstroke.That's what REAL WINTER CITIES DO!! You have a problem being wrong. One day, you WILL admit it...Here is the difference between you and I. Your skill set depends on equipment on your car,or what ever it is you drive. Mine on knowledge and aptitude. I drive far more than just little mommy and daddy suvs. Rather many different kinds of large vehicles. Not all are equipped the same. SO, this means I MUST know how to handle them in ANY condition on any surface. I cannot help the fact that this city is an absolute farce with it's roads and that folks like you accept it as normal. I gave the numbers previous illustrating what a joke this city is with snow removal and you posted NOTHING to refute the fact that this city is woefully negligent and and utter disgrace. Embarrassment is a better term. Tell ya what...You spend the extra and drive in excess of conditions on YOUR SNOW TIRES. I'll Stick with my OLD FASHIONED all seasons and drive within the conditions. Happy driving....LOLOLOLOL

    And the whining just goes on and on ...
    No, Spirited opinion. Get it right.
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  11. #2511

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    So far about 7 cm of snow and about 180 crashes...

    http://edmontonsun.com/news/crime/mo...4-df6911d5e953



  12. #2512

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    Nice little rant cnr, but again, As mentioned in the past,

    driving skill + properly equipped vehicle = medwards

    driving skill + driving on frozen horse turds + thoughts and prayers that snow plows will save the day= cnr67

    whos the one who blows gaskets the moment it snows = cnr67

    whos the one whos okay with snow on road = medwards

    anyone find it funny that only all season tire drivers are the only ones cnr thinks drives to the conditions? Apprently snow tires automatically means you drive out of control. Quite the opposite me thinks.
    Last edited by Medwards; 03-02-2018 at 08:57 AM.

  13. #2513

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    109 street south of Whyte: unplowed. Calgary Trail south of Whyte: unplowed.

    Whyte Avenue on the other hand has been plowed to reveal a beautifully pebbled ice surface. No sand anywhere. Good for curling, not so much so for driving.

  14. #2514
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    I was pretty surprised how much snow was on 104th avenue this morning from 105-124th. It was difficult to maintain lanes, not because they were covered, but because the dense, partially packed snow was kicking my car around (5 series BMW w/ AWD and excellent winter tires, so no slouch). Not a big deal on a quiet Saturday when most people are staying underneath the covers, but that's a pretty major road that hadn't seen a plow in 12+ hours by all appearances.

  15. #2515

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    76th avenue unplowed, deep ruts.

    76th avenue bike lanes cleared to pavement, totally bare.

    Number of cars on 76th between 104th street and 109th: about twenty. Number of bikes: zero.

  16. #2516

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    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    109 street south of Whyte: unplowed. Calgary Trail south of Whyte: unplowed.

    Whyte Avenue on the other hand has been plowed to reveal a beautifully pebbled ice surface. No sand anywhere. Good for curling, not so much so for driving.
    At -20 (-29 with the wind) sand, before it was pushed aside by tires rolling through it, would just polish that ice.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  17. #2517

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    109 street south of Whyte: unplowed. Calgary Trail south of Whyte: unplowed.

    Whyte Avenue on the other hand has been plowed to reveal a beautifully pebbled ice surface. No sand anywhere. Good for curling, not so much so for driving.
    At -20 (-29 with the wind) sand, before it was pushed aside by tires rolling through it, would just polish that ice.
    Ice does not feel a wind chill; only people do. As far as the ice is concerned -20 is -20 no matter how strong the wind.

    You keep saying sand just polishes the ice. I disagree: at these temperatures I believe it to be the only option. My time in Yellowknife supports this. I haven't found anything on the internet to support your claim but if you can find something to substantiate it I'd happily change my view.

    The best option would have been to try and avoid the formation of the ice layer in the first place. Early and frequent plowing would have helped. Also strict avoidance of calcium chloride and other road salts would help too; I hope the city hasn't been trying to use their brine.

  18. #2518

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    Wind will matter. There’s maybe a bit of heat rising from the ground and sun warming the dark surface and sand. Wind will ensure that -20 is -20 and not something warmer at the surface.

    Also, sun warmed sand will sink into hardpack. I’m not sure whether that would be good for traction or not.
    Last edited by KC; 03-02-2018 at 02:19 PM.

  19. #2519

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Wind will matter. There’s maybe a bit of heat rising from the ground and sun warming the dark surface and sand. Wind will ensure that -20 is -20 and not something warmer at the surface.
    Fair enough, but as you correctly state it doesn't magically change the temperature from -20C to -29C which is a common misconception about wind chill.

  20. #2520

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    Unacceptable


    Every other city the roads get cleared.

    Edmonton doesn't seem to mind the mediocrity

  21. #2521

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    Quote Originally Posted by jadzia2000 View Post
    Unacceptable


    Every other city the roads get cleared.

    Edmonton doesn't seem to mind the mediocrity
    Not every other city: snow clearing is terrible in Calgary too. Worse maybe. Currently they've had to close an 18 km stretch of Deerfoot through the heart of the city due to unsafe conditions.

  22. #2522
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadzia2000 View Post
    Unacceptable


    Every other city the roads get cleared.

    Edmonton doesn't seem to mind the mediocrity
    Not every city, Saskatoon is another town with hap hazard snow clearing. CGY comes close to Edmonton in it's wait and tolerate mentality to winter maintenance.
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  23. #2523

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    The reason that snow-clearing is so "hap-hazard" is that all the people who KNOW what needs to be done are sitting on their a$$es on comment boards.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Hopefully the city will do a better job of tagging and towing vehicles on snow routes. Last weekend in our neighbourhood a truck was left there ( called to complain back in Nov as it was in the same spot for months). Called 311 twice over the weekend and nothing was done. Called again this week, and a notice was issued. However now the recent snow is covering the ticket that is on the wiper blade... sighhhh. If the graders go around it again, there will be even more snow piled up against the truck.

  25. #2525

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    ^You should call EPS non emergency number and let them know about the truck. It could be a stolen vehicle and just left there and that is why it has not been moved.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    <RANT ON>
    Again today I ventured out after the latest major snowfall and I again found myself leaving the confines of this fair city managed by the Corporation of the City of Edmonton. Upon leaving said major city on a major arterial roadway that was snowpacked and slippery, particularly at intersections, with frozen ice patches protruding upwards, I then enter the rarefied domain of a provincial government highway, where to my shock an amazement, the road was clear and black, ice free, and I knew what lane I was in, and could drive the posted speed limit.

    WHY?!?!?!
    </RANT OFF>

  27. #2527

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    Different SLA/policy and plowing next to a field at high speed...

  28. #2528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    The reason that snow-clearing is so "hap-hazard" is that all the people who KNOW what needs to be done are sitting on their a$$es on comment boards.
    As opposed to...........Calling 311?? Or calling our alderPERSON. Gender sensitivities you know. KNOWING how effective that is.OR???? How about blowing the back alley and keeping it clear for the neighbors. I don't park in the back. My elderly neighbors do.The end of our block hadn't been sanded for a period of a month. This was back in Nov/Dec. And so having a 1/2 ton, loaded up some gravel and laid it down. Since the community boxes are for sidewalks, I couldn't take enough to do a thorough job of it. Still, it was better than the city had offered...NOTHING!! So...What have you contributed to the effort then?
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  29. #2529
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    The reason that snow-clearing is so "hap-hazard" is that all the people who KNOW what needs to be done are sitting on their a$$es on comment boards.
    As opposed to...........Calling 311?? Or calling our alderPERSON. Gender sensitivities you know. KNOWING how effective that is.OR???? How about blowing the back alley and keeping it clear for the neighbors. I don't park in the back. My elderly neighbors do.The end of our block hadn't been sanded for a period of a month. This was back in Nov/Dec. And so having a 1/2 ton, loaded up some gravel and laid it down. Since the community boxes are for sidewalks, I couldn't take enough to do a thorough job of it. Still, it was better than the city had offered...NOTHING!! So...What have you contributed to the effort then?
    I can say I haven't contributed anything because I can get where I am going with the service the COE is providing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    The reason that snow-clearing is so "hap-hazard" is that all the people who KNOW what needs to be done are sitting on their a$$es on comment boards.
    As opposed to...........Calling 311?? Or calling our alderPERSON. Gender sensitivities you know. KNOWING how effective that is.OR???? How about blowing the back alley and keeping it clear for the neighbors. I don't park in the back. My elderly neighbors do.The end of our block hadn't been sanded for a period of a month. This was back in Nov/Dec. And so having a 1/2 ton, loaded up some gravel and laid it down. Since the community boxes are for sidewalks, I couldn't take enough to do a thorough job of it. Still, it was better than the city had offered...NOTHING!! So...What have you contributed to the effort then?
    I can say I haven't contributed anything because I can get where I am going with the service the COE is providing...
    I'm glad the bike lanes work for you......
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  31. #2531

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    Roads have been fine for driving, no complaints and I'm just running all seasons no prob at all.

    However cheaping out on sanding intersections and roads is making life harder for people to walk. Basically on roads you cross your doing the duck walk and I wear Merrels designed for walking on ice. When they clear roads with graders they should focus a bit on clearing out some of the intersections and sides as well. Which would make it a lot easier on pedestrians.

    Another fail is the windrows. C'mon city of Edmonton. Picture that somebody might be trying to get somewhere in a wheelchair or motorized scooter. What on earth would that person do? EVERY end of block sidewalk should be cleared. Every one. Homeownwers are no better. The majority is people on corner lots not even thinking to clear egress so that people can continue walking in any direction.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  32. #2532

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Roads have been fine for driving, no complaints and I'm just running all seasons no prob at all.

    However cheaping out on sanding intersections and roads is making life harder for people to walk. Basically on roads you cross your doing the duck walk and I wear Merrels designed for walking on ice. When they clear roads with graders they should focus a bit on clearing out some of the intersections and sides as well. Which would make it a lot easier on pedestrians.

    Another fail is the windrows. C'mon city of Edmonton. Picture that somebody might be trying to get somewhere in a wheelchair or motorized scooter. What on earth would that person do? EVERY end of block sidewalk should be cleared. Every one. Homeownwers are no better. The majority is people on corner lots not even thinking to clear egress so that people can continue walking in any direction.
    There's a guy in my neighborhood that owns a corner lot, and never once has he cleared the side of his home only his front area.

    The other day I saw him take snow off of his property and dump it on the road.

    Isn't that a violation?

  33. #2533

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    Both issues are in the COE Bylaws

    You can report him
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  35. #2535

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    No Lazy Azz who won't shovel their sidewalks
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  36. #2536

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    No Lazy Azz who won't shovel their sidewalks
    There is one house in my neighborhood where every year there never has been anyone shoveling snow. My guess is the homeowner leaves town for the winter as they may be snowbirds. But don't they still need to make arrangements for someone to clear their sidewalk? I'm guessing no one has ever called it in to complain.

  37. #2537

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    I'd use the 311 app and report them. I'd also report any vehicles that seem to have found a permanent resting spot on the roadway, and never move. The city road isn't the final resting spot for your shitter, or a place for long term storage. Get it off the road. Shovel your sidewalk

  38. #2538

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    They bladed my street yesterday.

    Skimmed off the top half-inch or so, left most of the slush holes. Maybe a 10% improvement thanks to removal of some of the worst bumps.
    There can only be one.

  39. #2539

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    The roads are not fine. Yellowhead eastbound has been closed between Fort Road and 66 Street it's so bad.

  40. #2540
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    They bladed my street yesterday.

    Skimmed off the top half-inch or so, left most of the slush holes. Maybe a 10% improvement thanks to removal of some of the worst bumps.
    They did the same here...at 11:30pm on Monday night. Left a 30 inch windrow..Yes I measured it in front of my neighbor's driveway and left it. Seniors no less. I took my machine and cleared it out along with the mess they piles next to my vehicle. 23 hours later..at 10:30pm on Tuesday, a bobcat comes by and begins removing the windrows from in front of the driveways...WOW..I'm sooooooooooo impressed.23 HOURS later. Call it common sense, would that not have made more sense WHEN the street was given the butter knife blade job? OH WAIT>>>>>>>>Edmonton. I really must learn to accept this as normal.
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    Was it a butterknife or a 30 inch windrow?

  42. #2542

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    Seasonal parking ban got lifted late last night.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  43. #2543
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    98 Ave, WB approaching the circle - YIKES - serious ice.

    Take care
    ... gobsmacked

  44. #2544

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    ^That's a good heads up.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  45. #2545

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    98 Ave, WB approaching the circle - YIKES - serious ice.

    Take care
    Sand and gravel use shouldn't be forgotten as much as it has been. We're growing some really quality curling ice in the city. well polished, honed, and theres real risk of running rocks right through the house...

    Actually it would be funny to take some curling stones to some of the roads and test out the conditions. Whatever you do don't use takeout weight...

    As long as its not the kind of ice where your vehicle slides sideways or downhill because its so damned slippery I'm generally ok with the conditions. Just at some point they can become generally untenable road surfaces.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Yellowhead East of Gretzky is very slick The city has poured abundant amounts of sand/salt and it's still very slick. Take care.
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  47. #2547

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    I have a 4x4. If I am in an unplowed area with lots of snow I put it in 4x4. I am never sure when I should be using ‘part time’ (that’s what it says on the dash).
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  48. #2548
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    ^ Whatever mode you feel safest in, Gem. You control the car, not the car control you.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  49. #2549

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    ^ Whatever mode you feel safest in, Gem. You control the car, not the car control you.
    This is true for sure.
    At one time I did not think twice about driving or what I drove. Used to drive to work in busy traffic conditions or when nobody was about. I would finish work at 11, 3 or 5 a.m in the morning (and in case you were wondering, I was not a stripper). Used to drive up 97th. Street at 3 a.m. Sunday morning and would be one of the first vehicles to hit the road during a newly forming snow storm. Not fretting about road conditions or what I was driving. Never had an accident during that time. Now I work from home I spend more time thinking about what vehicle I should get, if I should get snow tires, four wheel drive, standard, SUV, truck etc. that I end up sticking with what I have. Must be getting older because before I'd get in any old beater and just drive it. Now I'm beginning to realize I'm not invincible.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  50. #2550
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    Yup, I hear you. The march of time, relentless.
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    So, I see a sanding truck with their little serrated butter knife gnawing some grooves in the ice. He didn't drop any gravel. Just made a mess and left. And again...we don't plow when it snows...BUT we run a mickey mouse truck across solid ice a month later...How is this fiscally responsible again? A half baked idea from a half baked city admin.
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  53. #2553
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    ^ Proper clearing of residential streets would be good, but Winnipeg has their residential parking ban backwards. Residential streets should be cleared during the day, not at night. The night shift should be working on main roads and in commercial and industrial areas.

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    Appears the streets are much cleaner this year with the increased use of de-icer. I am not seeing the large piles of sand and gravel. Hopefully this will make for a quicker spring clean up.

  55. #2555

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    ^Agreed with this. The use of the brine has been a huge success. So much so that road surfaces were the best they have ever been this winter and in a year where we had more snow than average and where it was colder more days than we have had in recent winters. The brine was so effective that there were maybe 4-5 days all winter where the road surfaces could even be considered challenging. I wonder how much collisions were cut back through the use. One would think there would be lower collision rate. Of particular note the freeways were much easier to drive this winter. Traction was good invariably.

    I'd even wonder if this brine use is continued what it does to Winter Tire sales. Road surfaces, at least for people doing only city driving were no issue this year.

    just as a note what I would recommend is that homeowners not shovel any snow from road to lawn. That salt will kill your grass. Not sure why people do this anyway as I see people shovelling windrows from the graders onto their lawn. You get pebbles, gravel, salt etc on lawn doing that. Just leaves a real mess. Keep that stuff on the road.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  56. #2556

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    There shouldn't be salt on the roads. I thought we were a sodium-free province.

  57. #2557

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    The province has been using sodium for years. The SW Henday bridge over the river was made with an automatic de-icer... but it never worked properly.

  58. #2558

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    I think they use sodium chloride. Sodium in contact with water causes explosions.



    Well maybe they are using sodium on our roads. That would explain the pothole craters...LOL
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  59. #2559

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    The Jasper Ave pilot from last summer & the temporary bump-outs really did a number on Jasper Ave. Correlation isn't causation but I find this past winter's degradation of the road to be the worst yet, especially around the places where they monkeyed around with the asphalt.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    When it snowed over all that liquid salt, it sure made it icy, many many accidents.

  61. #2561

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    I don't doubt that those asphalt pads could contribute to street deterioration, but wouldn't you expect each subsequent year to be worse than the last as the street deteriorates?
    There can only be one.

  62. #2562

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    My "worst" applies to the degradation of the road, not the road itself.

    It's the biggest seasonal degradation that I've seen in my 10+ years living in Oliver & travelling down Jasper Ave every day.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  63. #2563

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    TYWKIWDBI ("Tai-Wiki-Widbee"): A "snow roller" (1937)

    http://tywkiwdbi.blogspot.com/2012/0...ller-1937.html


    Snow on the roads in the old days | The Ridgefield Press

    https://www.theridgefieldpress.com/1...-the-old-days/



    All the cool ways your ancestors used to move snow — Bangor — Bangor Daily News — BDN Maine

    http://bangordailynews.com/2016/03/0...-to-move-snow/
    Last edited by KC; 20-03-2018 at 12:36 PM.

  64. #2564

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    There are so many examples of city incompetence it's usually better off ignoring the whole thing (eg, absurdly high property taxes, an LRT nobody uses and runs at grade, ...) However, when the merry ship of (...) pirates start using salt on the roads so they save a few pennies for their pension fund, I think it's time to call for a revolution
    Last edited by Admin; 21-03-2018 at 11:33 AM. Reason: removed slur

  65. #2565
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    Every year at this time the potholes that were filled last year,
    return in the exact same location for an encore performance. So let me be the first to nominate a stretch of Stony Plain Rd westbound from 175-178 street [ curb lane] as the Andrew Knack pothole museum. So,motorists in the Westend beware, they are out there with a vengeance. Anyone else want to nominate their recurring potholes ?
    Go ahead, speed pass me... I'll meet you at the next red light.

  66. #2566

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    You know why we can't have proper remedies? When we attempt to do high density development, we get NIMBYs; guess what we get from that? Sprawl! When we expand the way we do for a population just under 1 million, we dont have enough money to fix things properly. Accept reality, and if one has nimbyism mentality, it serves you right and don't complain!
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  67. #2567
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    The whole damn city is a cracking,gaping holed mess with few exceptions. I don't understand why this city paves with the most inferior products and then chases the problems and incures the expense year after year and so on. The Henday SW was poured with concrete. No ruts and holes.However,It was not laid correctly ,hence the bouncing effect.It is not perfect either.It is however far more durable if laid correctly and less costly over time where constant repair in asphalt is far less efficient and costly. Ruts,cracking,potholes,man holes sinking and collapsing. Yellowhead Eastbound from 97st all the way to 50st at various spots has my vote.
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  68. #2568

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    Sorry. Potholes are not sexy. WLRT is the new blonde bombshell mistress that will get all the attention and money.

    Maybe in 10 years you can ask again.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  69. #2569

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    The problem is the weather has also change drastically. The constant fluctuated weather cause repetitive rapid expansion and compression . Calgary is no different. As per quality, would you care to tutor me on that?
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  70. #2570
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    The problem is the weather has also change drastically. The constant fluctuated weather cause repetitive rapid expansion and compression . Calgary is no different. As per quality, would you care to tutor me on that?
    https://www.brighthubengineering.com...asphalt-roads/ Pros and cons both ways.
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  71. #2571
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    I have seen footage on the dinner time news of the city filling potholes WITHOUT removing the water in them.
    Go ahead, speed pass me... I'll meet you at the next red light.

  72. #2572

    Default









    My problem is that I don't think city crews fix potholes correctly from what I have seen many times.

    They don't even bother to clean out the hole, jackhammer the broken edges, undercut the pavement and clean the hole out again. Then apply tack (usually hot tar) to the edges, fill the hole with asphalt and tamp fully.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  73. #2573

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    The problem is the weather has also change drastically. The constant fluctuated weather cause repetitive rapid expansion and compression . Calgary is no different. As per quality, would you care to tutor me on that?
    https://www.brighthubengineering.com...asphalt-roads/ Pros and cons both ways.
    Thank You! The problem with our climate is that concrete may last longer, but the changing winter(expansion/contraction) would only give that some edge imo.
    I actually had a conversation with my neighbor about asphalt 2-3 months ago. Concrete uses reebars for strength and crack prevention, so why would they not do that for asphalt? They could use wire fence style approved metal in the Middle of the asphalt. Im not even a novice in this regard, so my theory is more of inquisitive.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  74. #2574
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post








    My problem is that I don't think city crews fix potholes correctly from what I have seen many times.

    They don't even bother to clean out the hole, jackhammer the broken edges, undercut the pavement and clean the hole out again. Then apply tack (usually hot tar) to the edges, fill the hole with asphalt and tamp fully.
    If they repair, like they keep telling us, then why do the same ones appear in the exact same location year after year ? Call me wacky but they are not repaired.
    Go ahead, speed pass me... I'll meet you at the next red light.

  75. #2575

    Default

    At this time of year, cold-patching is used to keep up with the number of potholes appearing. Once summer starts then hot-patching can start.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  76. #2576

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    Still, preparation and proper techniques are essential for a longer lasting repair. When is the last time you saw a patching crew use a jackhammer to cut the asphalt to create a dovetail undercut and clean out the hole properly?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  77. #2577

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    I saw it last summer, and 4 decades of summer before that.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  78. #2578
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    The potholes that have appeared on the Henday have always appeared to have been better repaired than on City roads. Maybe the crews working for the province are held to a higher standard. There are a few repairs that were made on AHD westbound approaching 142 St. two or three years ago and they are still good and unnoticeable as you drive over them.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  79. #2579
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    The problem is the weather has also change drastically. The constant fluctuated weather cause repetitive rapid expansion and compression . Calgary is no different. As per quality, would you care to tutor me on that?
    https://www.brighthubengineering.com...asphalt-roads/ Pros and cons both ways.
    Thank You! The problem with our climate is that concrete may last longer, but the changing winter(expansion/contraction) would only give that some edge imo.
    I actually had a conversation with my neighbor about asphalt 2-3 months ago. Concrete uses reebars for strength and crack prevention, so why would they not do that for asphalt? They could use wire fence style approved metal in the Middle of the asphalt. Im not even a novice in this regard, so my theory is more of inquisitive.
    As is mine. Rebar in asphalt is interesting for sure. I hadn't thought of it. Perhaps that the asphalt is soft and in time wear down to the rebar? Speculating.....
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  80. #2580

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    It could very well do that, but I could see that maintaining it for a longer lifespan. Certainly, if Reebar is shown then they would have to remedy the problem. It would interesting if that could be experimented on a road strip for study. Furthermore, with solar panels so cost viable, they should also look at ways to incorporate power to the reebar and maintain the roads at desired temperature to prevent expand/contract. The idea of concrete is not a bad thing either, so perhaps a thin raft slab could be poured on the bottom before pavement is applied? I remembered when PLC constructed the LRT line to Southgate, they poured concrete to the dirt ground with no reebar, so maybe it could be done to that degree. Just a crazy wild idea.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  81. #2581

    Default

    Rebar cannot be used in asphalt because of several factors. The difference in thermal expansion and the lower strength of asphalt at elevated temperatures cause the interface between the rebar and asphalt to shear. This causes the rebar to lose all holding strength and any benefits are lost. Asphalt plasticly deforms at elevated temperatures above surface temperatures and the rebar will actually work through and become exposed, a very dangerous effect.

    Improved asphalt with glass or high strength plastic fibres have been tried and proved successful but at increased costs.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  82. #2582
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Rebar cannot be used in asphalt because of several factors. The difference in thermal expansion and the lower strength of asphalt at elevated temperatures cause the interface between the rebar and asphalt to shear. This causes the rebar to lose all holding strength and any benefits are lost. Asphalt plasticly deforms at elevated temperatures above surface temperatures and the rebar will actually work through and become exposed, a very dangerous effect.

    Improved asphalt with glass or high strength plastic fibers have been tried and proved successful but at increased costs.
    I read that shredded rubber compounds have been attempted. To what success or failure I do not know. The reality is, asphalt is weak and if the city continues with it, I'd like to see an additive to strengthen it. Make no mistake,concrete will fail if not poured nor mixed correctly either. The TCH West of Winnipeg was good example of how bad a road becomes over time It cracked and heaved to the point where it was completely ripped up and redone.The difference is that that road was poured originally back in the 50's and resurfaced in the 70's. It's lifespan far exceeded asphalt.
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  83. #2583

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    There is/was a patch of rubber-tire asphalt for testing on 102 Ave west of Railtown, right by the vet clinic. I haven't been down that way since the bike lanes went in so I dunno if it's still there.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  84. #2584

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    They used it at many intersections and the first thing you notice is it is far quieter than normal asphalt. Good traction in winter and less cracking.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  85. #2585
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    I recall an experimental concrete patch on Yellowhead EB right around 127st. I seemed to be there forever and was not broken up. I'll have a look tomorrow. That and several bus stops have cement pads. Reason?
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  86. #2586

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    IIRC some bus pads are concrete due to the propensity of asphalt to get a bit goopy in the heat of summertime, which combined with the weight of the buses causes quick degradation of the road. Concrete doesn't share this flaw.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  87. #2587

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    At bus stops and anywhere heavy vehicles travel or stop, the asphalt will flow and move. Still remember when they tried asphalt overlays with a membrane underneath at intersections. Every time trucks would stop,the entire acre sized sheet would move. Eventually the sheet would be folded up at a curb.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  88. #2588
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    Yes, you'll definitely notice that the city has been using more concrete at intersections with lots of heavy truck traffic (170 st/118 ave, for example).

    This was an interesting read: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...eton-1.4563986

    We're largely paving roads the same way we have been for over half a century, and in large part, that's because no one has much of an incentive to improve on it.

  89. #2589

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    I have a real question on paving standards. I find that US roads are paved way better than in Canada. If you go from Canada and cross the border into Vermont, upstate New York or Michigan for example, the roads are in way better condition. When repaving and putting down asphalt overlays, it appears to me that they are applying far thicker layers than in Canada. Would anyone know what the standards are in various jurisdictions?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  90. #2590

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    The problem lies with the usual way they handle projects and repairs; As cheap as possible combined with short-term solutions. They only care about fixing things within their budget for this year, and don't care that they repeat it year after year after year because of this. The proper way is much more expensive, but will last much longer and save money in the long run, but they don't care about next year, or 5 years from now, that'll be someone else's problem using another year's budget. The Henday and Whitemud's lack of lanes when first built, the Yellowhead's traffic light intersections... They only fix the problem when it becomes a major problem instead of planning ahead, which only makes things worse for roads because now you have parts of the route shut down to do expansion work.

    Would you re-shingle your house with some cheap thin flimsy shingles you found on sale or do patch jobs because it'll save you money this year even though it means you'll have to do it again in 3-5 years? No, you do it right and then enjoy it for 20 years, which ends up costing less in the long run.

  91. #2591

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    People tend to replace shingles well before they get to the point of failure not for functional or economic reasons but because the old shingles start to look bad. It's aesthetics, but mostly is pride of place, doing something because it feels good.

    While lights on the yellowhead are a minor pain and don't look particularly good I think it's hard to argue that building a billion dollars of overpasses is hard to justify on purely functional grounds - just like the roof we're mostly talking about an esthetic/pride issue.

    Poor condition potholed roads are a different story, since they really do end up costing more to maintain once they're past a certain point. and as a bonus, maintaining decent road and sidewalk surfaces can have just as big of an intangible psychological boost as any megaproject.
    There can only be one.

  92. #2592

    Default

    Yikes, the natives are restless and 90% appear to hate the salt experiment of 2017/2018

    I completely agree with the majority of comments and I question this new Transportation Manager they have.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/co...arted_but_now/

  93. #2593

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    Quote Originally Posted by happydays View Post
    Yikes, the natives are restless and 90% appear to hate the salt experiment of 2017/2018

    I completely agree with the majority of comments and I question this new Transportation Manager they have.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/co...arted_but_now/
    lol its cute that you think 90% of people in edmonton are on reddit maybe you should stop over exaggerating the number of people that doesnt like it

  94. #2594

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magnus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by happydays View Post
    Yikes, the natives are restless and 90% appear to hate the salt experiment of 2017/2018

    I completely agree with the majority of comments and I question this new Transportation Manager they have.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/co...arted_but_now/
    lol its cute that you think 90% of people in edmonton are on reddit maybe you should stop over exaggerating the number of people that doesnt like it
    I didn't say anything about Edmonton but rather the stats based on that one Reddit thread. Actually you are right my arithmetic was off - I understated the 90% opposed as there were only 6 comments in support in a 123 comment thread. My bad

  95. #2595

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    Quote Originally Posted by happydays View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magnus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by happydays View Post
    Yikes, the natives are restless and 90% appear to hate the salt experiment of 2017/2018

    I completely agree with the majority of comments and I question this new Transportation Manager they have.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Edmonton/co...arted_but_now/
    lol its cute that you think 90% of people in edmonton are on reddit maybe you should stop over exaggerating the number of people that doesnt like it
    I didn't say anything about Edmonton but rather the stats based on that one Reddit thread. Actually you are right my arithmetic was off - I understated the 90% opposed as there were only 6 comments in support in a 123 comment thread. My bad
    so 123 comments would be like 1% bro not 90%

  96. #2596
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    I have found the de-icer very effective this year. The streets are cleaner this spring as there is much less sand and gravel. I will be really disappointed if they discontinue using it. The solution they use is diluted to 30 percent, I believe.

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    I also think road conditions were better this winter than they have been in previous years, but my standard complaint about the city doing too much dumping of stuff on roads and not enough scraping stuff off of roads still stands.

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    I had a conversation with a gentleman who works for the city in transportation. He has already observed the damage to fleet vehicles from the calcium chloride. Specifically to brake lines and undercoatings. Not in his 20 plus years has he ever seen this much corrosion in such a short span of time.My concern is..If this is what is happening to a vehicle, what of the waterways and ground space this ends up in or on? If we preach how green a city we are and promote it as such, how can the city allow a potential toxin into the environment? I do NOT profess to know nor understand how the city decides what to use. Still, it sounds very destructive....
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  99. #2599

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    I think the streets have been a bit better than previous years, but it's not worth it for the amount of extra corrosion and damage.

    Rather than cost the citizens of the city potentially hundreds of millions of dollars a year in damage we could increase the snow clearing budget (removal!!!) and get similar results.

    Maybe keep the brine as one tool for when there's freezing rain coming, or as a faster solution on icy intersections but there's no way we should be using it everywhere.
    There can only be one.

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    Our downtown area looked much much cleaner this year with the reduced use of gravel and sand. We should be using brine when the temperatures warrant it. If it, is in fact, causing lots of damage to city vehicles they will stop using it. In relation to my cars, I have tried to wash them once a week, and have found them to be fairly clean most of the winter. I have not noticed any rust showing up on either of my vehicles.

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