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Thread: Civic incompetence

  1. #1
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    Default Civic incompetence

    Does this city to ANYthing right: https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/city-of-...lity-1.4442390 ?

    Oh well, what's $214m + cost of the original facility?

    But, as Scott McKeen, his hipster self assured me, council never gets bullied into anything by administration.

    Ya.
    ... gobsmacked

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    I remember so much gloating about how the facility is "world class" back when it opened. Even has its own Wikipedia page:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmont...sting_Facility

    Largest stainless steel building in North America. De-Lorean was stainless steel too, and its story didn't work out well either. Maybe they can make the next one out of Zinc to match the Library?
    Last edited by downtownone; 29-05-2019 at 03:18 PM.

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    i get that buildings - particularly those exposed to high levels of moisture and/or other contaminants - have limited life spans. is 17 years too limited? i don't know.

    if it cost 100 million originally and lasted 17 years that amortizes out at roughly 6 million per year on a straight line/no interest basis. should it have lasted twice as long? if that had increased the original cost by more than 215 million, this may still have represented the best choices. that's the missing piece of information from what has been disclosed so far.

    the failure here is probably less in the initial construction and construction pricing and design choiced than in the lack of maintenance since it was completed and not planning for it's replacement at the end of that 17 year design time-line. that's the real failure.

    and that's a failure we see way too much of regardless of where we look - buildings, roads, sewers, storm water ponds, fleets, sidewalks, plants...
    Last edited by kcantor; 29-05-2019 at 03:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by downtownone View Post
    I remember so much gloating about how the facility is "world class" back when it opened. Even has its own Wikipedia page:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmont...sting_Facility

    Largest stainless steel building in North America. De-Lorean was stainless steel too, and its story didn't work out well either. Maybe they can make the next one out of Zinc to match the Library?
    i remember boasting about that same 60% on our way to 90% for a long time as well.

    in some respects it's not even the financial failure as much as having been lied to and effectively having lied to others as a result that annoys and frustrates me the most.
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    On the bright side, the City has begun completing the curbing and paving work that they started on the South side of 111th avenue at 142 and 149 streets last October. In the meantime, the right turn bays at those intersections have been closed and the crosswalks have been a nightmare for anyone not able bodied. Why the work was even started in late October when it had almost no chance of being completed prior to snow/freeze-up will remain a mystery to me and anyone else with even a shred of common sense.

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    When the COE Administration lies, they lie BIG!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    On the bright side, the City has begun completing the curbing and paving work that they started on the South side of 111th avenue at 142 and 149 streets last October. In the meantime, the right turn bays at those intersections have been closed and the crosswalks have been a nightmare for anyone not able bodied. Why the work was even started in late October when it had almost no chance of being completed prior to snow/freeze-up will remain a mystery to me and anyone else with even a shred of common sense.
    now, now, marcel...

    i'm pretty sure the city has lots and lots and lots of common sense.

    what i would like is for some of that common sense to be traded for good sense.
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  8. #8

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    I wonder if the blame should fall on Jan Reimer's penny pinching city council of the '90s. Jan Reimer's only "good" legacy wasn't good enough. How pathetic.
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  9. #9

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    The Stainless steel building material is not to blame for this, my guess is they used another material to screw/weld it all together, and those screws and welds turned to crap.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  10. #10

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    WTF are all you guys on?

    The city didn’t build it. TransAlta originally owned it. I don’t know who actually built it.

    The City later bought it from them. I would guess that it was a private sector screw up.


    Here, I found this:


    Freedom of information request shows flawed repairs, design issues behind failing compost facility – Edmonton Journal

    “Behlen Industries, the company that originally supplied the facility and designed the repair, also did an inspection and said the structure is OK, Ladouceur said. But the city chose to err on the side of caution. It is planning to shut the facility again this October, before the snow flies, and is working on plans to build a replacement.



    City mum on legal options

    Any option so far found for repairing the structure would cost roughly $25 million, more than the building is worth. Those options were presented to council’s utility committee last April, but council members went in private to discuss the history.

    When asked if the city is considering legal action, Ladouceur said: “The legal opinion and our opinion on the cause was presented in private and will remain in private.”

    Behlen officials could not be reached for comment Thursday.

    When the compost facility was built in 2000 by TransAlta it was considered world class, the largest in North America. TransAlta sold it to the city in 2001. It’s a large, single-storey building measuring 117 metres wide, 200 metres long and about 12 metres high.

    Repairs made things worse

    According to ONEC research summarized for the city, problems first appeared in 2001 when the ceiling panels buckled on the west side of the building in the middle span, resulting in 45 metres of panels being replaced under warranty.

    Eleven years later, officials noticed panels buckled on the east side of the building and Behlen designed a reinforcement system for the roof truss. In 2013, contractors installed that same reinforcement throughout the middle section.

    In a memo dated Feb. 20, 2013, contractor Clark Builders told the city: “This will ensure that we will have no problems going forward.”

    But that repair actually made things worse, the RND engineer concluded. Crews should have ...”

    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...gineer-reports

    So, yes it seems that the private sector built crap, and suckered the City into buying private sector garbage - a self composting composting facility.
    Last edited by KC; 29-05-2019 at 10:12 PM.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Does this city to ANYthing right: https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/city-of-...lity-1.4442390 ?

    Oh well, what's $214m + cost of the original facility?

    But, as Scott McKeen, his hipster self assured me, council never gets bullied into anything by administration.

    Ya.
    Rule #1: don’t trust the private sector builders to build quality.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    i get that buildings - particularly those exposed to high levels of moisture and/or other contaminants - have limited life spans. is 17 years too limited? i don't know.

    if it cost 100 million originally and lasted 17 years that amortizes out at roughly 6 million per year on a straight line/no interest basis. should it have lasted twice as long? if that had increased the original cost by more than 215 million, this may still have represented the best choices. that's the missing piece of information from what has been disclosed so far.

    the failure here is probably less in the initial construction and construction pricing and design choiced than in the lack of maintenance since it was completed and not planning for it's replacement at the end of that 17 year design time-line. that's the real failure.

    and that's a failure we see way too much of regardless of where we look - buildings, roads, sewers, storm water ponds, fleets, sidewalks, plants...
    Again, my Rule #1

    Rule #1: don’t trust the private sector builders to build quality.

    It was crap from the start.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    I wonder if the blame should fall on Jan Reimer's penny pinching city council of the '90s. Jan Reimer's only "good" legacy wasn't good enough. How pathetic.

    Reimer was long gone. Decore may have been tighter with the dollars. Bill Smith?

    Seems pretty pathetic to try to tie a mayor kicked out of office years before for poor private sector construction and shoddy warranty and repair work by private sector companies. “How pathetic.”

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Does this city to ANYthing right: https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/city-of-...lity-1.4442390 ?

    Oh well, what's $214m + cost of the original facility?

    But, as Scott McKeen, his hipster self assured me, council never gets bullied into anything by administration.

    Ya.
    “Does this city to ANYthing right: ”

    Do you?

    Plus your subject line is pretty much BS. The City screwed up in buying this asset from TransAlta. They screwed up in their inspection of the structure, and in not suing the heck out of the seller and the builder. That level of incompetence is very common.

    People have been duped into thinking that the private sector can do no wrong and all work should be contracted out to the private sector. That dogma continuously bites the administration in the *** but they persist in believing the nonsense.
    Last edited by KC; 29-05-2019 at 10:41 PM.

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    @KC,

    Can you define when public sector builders built better quality than the private sector? When can I trust "them" more?
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  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    @KC,

    Can you define when public sector builders built better quality than the private sector? When can I trust "them" more?
    I can’t say they have. That’s not my point. My point is that the private sector may be no better. Plus they are profit motivated so may cut corners to maximize profit.

    City bashing is also fine, when earned. The extent they earned this bashing is debatable. 2001 preceded a series of screwups.

    In the near two decades since the City has repeatedly re-learned hard lessons in their contracting out of projects.
    Last edited by KC; 29-05-2019 at 10:52 PM.

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    I wonder if there’s a Mike Holmes special for Edmonton’s composting facility.
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    Somewhat related in Slovenia.
    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2...ht-its-rubbish
    Don't know if we'd get the buy in here for such a change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    @KC,

    Can you define when public sector builders built better quality than the private sector? When can I trust "them" more?
    I can’t say they have. That’s not my point. My point is that the private sector may be no better. Plus they are profit motivated so may cut corners to maximize profit.

    City bashing is also fine, when earned. The extent they earned this bashing is debatable. 2001 preceded a series of screwups.

    In the near two decades since the City has repeatedly re-learned hard lessons in their contracting out of projects.

    Ok, but on many of these, the CoE maintains full control of deliverables and acceptance criterion, so they can and should be the final arbiter of what good looks like. Subcontracting is not new. Handovers are not new. Someone, somewhere, accepted the composter as is, where is. I know many of the TransAlta people that worked on that, and I have worked in many of their facilities that have extremes that this composter couldn't comprehend.

    Your point is that you cannot trust the private sector to do build quality....so who can you trust? Is there another sector I am unaware of?

    I agree. You just don't bash the city to bash the city because bashing the city is the in thing to do. I too get **** on regularly for things that are not my fault...not fun. However, if there is blame to be had...
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  20. #20

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    Is the structure failing or did the roof insulation become compromised?
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    Maybe both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    i get that buildings - particularly those exposed to high levels of moisture and/or other contaminants - have limited life spans. is 17 years too limited? i don't know.

    if it cost 100 million originally and lasted 17 years that amortizes out at roughly 6 million per year on a straight line/no interest basis. should it have lasted twice as long? if that had increased the original cost by more than 215 million, this may still have represented the best choices. that's the missing piece of information from what has been disclosed so far.

    the failure here is probably less in the initial construction and construction pricing and design choiced than in the lack of maintenance since it was completed and not planning for it's replacement at the end of that 17 year design time-line. that's the real failure.

    and that's a failure we see way too much of regardless of where we look - buildings, roads, sewers, storm water ponds, fleets, sidewalks, plants...
    Again, my Rule #1

    Rule #1: don’t trust the private sector builders to build quality.

    It was crap from the start.
    i'm not sure what you're trying to say here?

    as far as i know, outside of the armed forces there are no public sector builders.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  23. #23

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    Then why call the City incompetent?

    Is it the City’s planning process? Is it the bidding process? If so, why aren’t all the competent private sector builders stepping up to explain exactly where the process fails and thus causes all these project failures?

    As for in-house builders I thought Edmonton (and maybe Calgary) has their own tunnelling service.

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    Quote Originally Posted by downtownone View Post
    I remember so much gloating about how the facility is "world class" back when it opened. Even has its own Wikipedia page:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmont...sting_Facility

    Largest stainless steel building in North America. De-Lorean was stainless steel too, and its story didn't work out well either. Maybe they can make the next one out of Zinc to match the Library?



    Yeah, Top_Dawg remembers all the usual cornholios patting themselves on the back as if they discovered fire.

    Top_Dawg knew then that the whole ' 100% recycling - divert everything from landfill ' horsesh*t was all pie in the sky.

    Top_Dawg sees much of the same in all the climate change hysteria now.

    And remember last year when our illustrious mayor was caught musing out loud about the city not picking up yard waste anymore.

    The ol' : Emmonites will have to get used to not having cadillac waste service.

    Cadillac waste service ?

    What the f*ck is Ivy boy smoking ?

    Does he not know the level of service other cities provide ?

    But here a couple of trash monkeys come down the alley once a week and stop for a whopping fifteen seconds at each house to throw shitbags into the back of a truck.

    Everything else you have to take to a sh*t station yourself and pay extra to dispose of it.



    Cadillac service.



    Classic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC
    WTF are all you guys on?

    The city didn’t build it. TransAlta originally owned it. I don’t know who actually built it.

    The City later bought it from them. I would guess that it was a private sector screw up.


    Quote Originally Posted by KC
    Then why call the City incompetent?


    Quote Originally Posted by KC
    Rule #1: don’t trust the private sector builders to build quality.


    Caveat Emptor. They bought a lemon. And when they tried to fix the lemon, they made the problem worse. And apparently didn't realize that the problems were leading to the premature failure of the building. And lacking that realization, subsequently didn't plan for a replacement. What individual or group should bear responsibility for this sequence of events, if not the City of Edmonton? They bought a major piece of civic infrastructure that was either poorly built or designed, then completely failed to maintain it properly, and didn't plan for it's replacement. Smells like incompetence to me.

    As far as "private sector screw up" and saying that you can't trust the private sector, that's fairly nonsensical as others have pointed out. Even work built for the public sector is built by the private sector, outside of the military I suppose, and even the military uses lots of outside contractors. Ultimately the owner of a given project bears responsibility for the companies they choose to work with, both in terms of the contractors doing the work but also the various professional consultants that design and supervise the work.

    Quote Originally Posted by KC
    People have been duped into thinking that the private sector can do no wrong and all work should be contracted out to the private sector. That dogma continuously bites the administration in the *** but they persist in believing the nonsense.


    Again, this is nonsensical in the context of infrastructure/construction. All public projects are built by private contractors. Unless there's a whole bunch Government of Alberta/Canada contractors I'm not aware of.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 30-05-2019 at 12:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    (...)

    as far as i know, outside of the armed forces there are no public sector builders.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Unless there's a whole bunch Government of Alberta/Canada contractors I'm not aware of.

    awh...c'mon guys! There is a huge company of public sector builders central to any bureaucracy!

    ...empire builders...
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    Central LRT station was closed for a month to improve lighting - which happened.

    A month came and went, the station re-opened and the east escalator was closed for two week (more?) for repairs.

    The same escalator has since been closed for still more repairs twice more.

    The east Bay station escalators have been down since Ghod knows when and actually shielded off, often with the hoarding padlocked to prevent any work from actually being done.

    What's up? Do we buy these escalators used from Burma?

    (edit), and oh, since last fall there's a leak in the covering over the NW stairwell from Bay to 104 Street. It leaked when it rained last fall, when snow melted in the winter and is still leaking when it rains.
    Last edited by McBoo; 05-06-2019 at 05:11 PM.
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  28. #28

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    Speaking of civic incompetence & Central station, what's up with The Burrow space? How much did we sink into (poorly) renovating that space so Nate Box could schlep some coffee & sandwiches for a year or two, only to leave it vacant & unsuitable for any other purpose?
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  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Central LRT station was closed for a month to improve lighting - which happened.
    Only in Edmonton, they close a major LRT station to change lightbulbs.


    Amazing that they can't make changes at night when the system is not in use.
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  30. #30

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    If they changed them at night then the cry would be that we're paying the fat cat, lazy, entitled city workers a shift differential to change a light bulb.
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  31. #31

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    They only change the lights during the day otherwise they can't see what they are doing...

    Sound reasonable...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    They only change the lights during the day otherwise they can't see what they are doing...

    Sound reasonable...
    Some time ago there was a street light out in an alley that a lot of people used to walk down from nearby homes and apartment buildings to the Stadium LRT station. It was a bit of a short cut rather than walking around to 84st. When I started riding the LRT nine years ago in February, it was still dark out when I headed to work and I noticed that right in the middle of the alley one of the street lights was out. Thinking that it would make the walk safer by being better lit I put a call into 311, was transferred to Epcor and they asked me for the address. I said I don't know, it's in the alley south of 113ave, east of 83st, half way down. They said they wouldn't change it without an address. So the next day on my way to work I walked on the front street, got the address of the house that the light was behind and called it in again. Two weeks went by and the light wasn't changed so I called again. They said they couldn't find the light, conform the address. So I double checked, called back and gave them the address again. another two weeks go by and the light still isn't changed, so I call back. They said that there was no address on the back of the property so they couldn't find the light. I ask the, what do I have to do to get this light changed ? They said, tie something around the light pole so that the crew knows which one it is. So I did that, and a week later it got changed. This exact scenario happened again when I tried to get the burnt out lamps changed around our downtown property. It took about two months, a dozen calls and umpteen ribbons tied around poles before they all got changed. I think they still missed a couple. I gave up.

    A thread about civic incompetence in Edmonton is almost too easy. I could write a book... A series of books on the ineptness of this city, based on my experiences over the last ten years.

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    I'm not even retired, but I suspect I'll be dead and gone before Epcor finishes ripping up 105 Street.
    ... gobsmacked

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    They only change the lights during the day otherwise they can't see what they are doing...

    Sound reasonable...
    Some time ago there was a street light out in an alley that a lot of people used to walk down from nearby homes and apartment buildings to the Stadium LRT station. It was a bit of a short cut rather than walking around to 84st. When I started riding the LRT nine years ago in February, it was still dark out when I headed to work and I noticed that right in the middle of the alley one of the street lights was out. Thinking that it would make the walk safer by being better lit I put a call into 311, was transferred to Epcor and they asked me for the address. I said I don't know, it's in the alley south of 113ave, east of 83st, half way down. They said they wouldn't change it without an address. So the next day on my way to work I walked on the front street, got the address of the house that the light was behind and called it in again. Two weeks went by and the light wasn't changed so I called again. They said they couldn't find the light, conform the address. So I double checked, called back and gave them the address again. another two weeks go by and the light still isn't changed, so I call back. They said that there was no address on the back of the property so they couldn't find the light. I ask the, what do I have to do to get this light changed ? They said, tie something around the light pole so that the crew knows which one it is. So I did that, and a week later it got changed. This exact scenario happened again when I tried to get the burnt out lamps changed around our downtown property. It took about two months, a dozen calls and umpteen ribbons tied around poles before they all got changed. I think they still missed a couple. I gave up.

    A thread about civic incompetence in Edmonton is almost too easy. I could write a book... A series of books on the ineptness of this city, based on my experiences over the last ten years.
    Years ago I called about walkway lighting and they also wanted more detail than I could provide. They should put pole numbers at about 10’ off the ground so people can see them.

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    If they changed them at night then the cry would be that we're paying the fat cat, lazy, entitled city workers a shift differential to change a light bulb.
    Just a really crazy idea here but maybe they could have someone drive around at night and collect the hundreds of locations. At one point we had about 10 lights out around our neighbourhood. I think that lasted for over a year. Maybe it was longer.

    LEDs should solve a lot of problems but as of a few years back I understand that the failure rate on some units was pretty high.

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    I'm not even retired, but I suspect I'll be dead and gone before Epcor finishes ripping up 105 Street.
    105 St is a City of Edmonton project that EPCOR inherited. The choice of contractor & so forth was not EPCOR's & the City chose to give a major project to someone they'd never had work done with before.
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  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Just a really crazy idea here but maybe they could have someone drive around at night and collect the hundreds of locations. At one point we had about 10 lights out around our neighbourhood. I think that lasted for over a year. Maybe it was longer.

    LEDs should solve a lot of problems but as of a few years back I understand that the failure rate on some units was pretty high.
    Streetlight services are going to be transitioned to a similar service as snow plows. Independent contractors & call lists. Work done by the lowest bidder.
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  38. #38

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    Still waiting on the rest of Jasper Avenue to be converted over from 102 Street west to the fancy new lights and poles to replace the ugly green things.

    And Terwilligar gets bamboozelled into an EXPRESS WAY! More lanes, but the traffic lights remain. The whole point was to dump the lights! But now, someone wants bus lanes to Leger.

    How many millions are we spending on maybe 2 FIFA games?

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by IrishAtomic View Post
    How many millions are we spending on maybe 2 FIFA games?
    Yeah, but that puts Edmonton on the map!

    One day I want to see this map where we have spent millions on projects to get our place on that map.


    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 08-06-2019 at 08:41 AM.
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    Of course, dedicated bus lanes, b/c there are so many buses going to Terwilligar and Leger.

    So, so many - a traffic jam in and of themselves!!!!

    Did the province get bamboozled to support this or what?
    ... gobsmacked

  41. #41

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    Oh god, the Terwillegar solution is so backwards, and will really end up costing the taxpayers so much more in the long run than if they just kept to the plan. All the work to turn Terwillegar into an express lane will need to be removed once they realize that they need the full freeway solution as SW keeps mushrooming, and the province turns 170th Street SW into Hwy 2A.... but like all things Edmonton, the solution the administration doesn't recommend but still presents to council because they asked for is the solution we are going with all to save a few bucks in the short term.

  42. #42

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    Totally agree. The whole ROW was all prepared with diamond interchanges decades ago and all they had to do was build the bridges and pave the underpasses. Also repaint the Whitemud overpass to two lanes instead of one. No disruption, no endless construction, no detours and lane closures.

    Nope, gotta totally reengineer everything to make it cost 4 times as much and make it less practical.
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    100%. This is just so short sighted.
    There can only be one.

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    Jeez, I'm afraid to look.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Totally agree. The whole ROW was all prepared with diamond interchanges decades ago and all they had to do was build the bridges and pave the underpasses. Also repaint the Whitemud overpass to two lanes instead of one. No disruption, no endless construction, no detours and lane closures.
    Wait, what? Are you claiming that the Whitemud/Terwillegar interchange would not need to be completely redesigned were Terwillegar brought up to a freeway standard? If you are, that's about as dumb as what the city's contemplating. That interchange is already a problem, let alone if you double or triple the traffic on Terwillegar.

  46. #46

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    IMHO let me set my point of view out for you.

    First of all, highway speeds will never happen on Whitemud. 80 kph is the limit no matter what they do because local residents will not want the added noise of higher speeds nor will Council members go for higher speed as they lower speeds all over town.

    Secondly, the current plan is to make Terwilliger into a arterial road with multiple lights, bike lanes and bus lanes. Not a freeway standard at all.

    20 years ago, they should have used the full design width of the overpass. It was designed to handle two lanes but they added barriers to reduce the lane width to one. I for one always like that infrastructure is fully utilized before making a new project.

    I also agree that some simple upgrades to extend lanes for faster and smoother merges.

    On the proper thread, I already detailed the other suggestions.

    To quote myself
    Ed·mon·ton ex·press·way
    [ed-muh n-tuh ikˈspresˌwā]


    NOUN
    City of Edmonton Definition


    a big budget highway designed for clogged traffic, with ill timed traffic lights every 700-1,300 meters, a dividing strip between the traffic in opposite directions, and typically two or more lanes in each direction, plus added bike lanes, bus lanes, and uber expensive overpasses that takes longer to build than the entire AHD ring road. Future planned improvements include multiple at grade crossing of slow urban streetcar with signals installed by Thales.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 10-06-2019 at 07:37 PM.
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    We blame the city, but what about the people of the city? We chose our choice for sprawling and, in correlation to the population body count, we dont have enough money to function as a city. What is one's first option when it comes to building? Valued engineered...Cities like New York ( roughly 1/3 land mass more than Edmonton) with 20 times the population and tax pool have difficulties functioning, yet we keep sprawling then *****! I wont ***** because when money is stretched thin through out, this is what happens... voila! I'm sure many of you are going through that in your own family where money is stretched thin and we have to make alternative choices.

    The only thing I would like to see, with this in mind, is that we establish a citizen group with no ties to the city to occasionally audit the city's autonomous functions. We, the regular people, need to let them know our literal breath will gently caress their necks when they deal with our money. One thing that I noticed, and it is just my conjecture, when projects are public funded, they always balloon to Xfactors...I understand slight inflation, but they always climb Xfactors.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Bicycle lanes you say? Forgot about that. I know there are so many folks in Terwilligar who want to cycle to .... um ...somewhere.

    And right next to bus lanes (for that congested bus route) beside an "expressway."

    Maybe they'll add advance green lights for cyclists. And no right turn on red for drivers.

    You know, so European.

    I know already, Mayor Dumb-As* and Councilor Hipster got my vote for the last time. I'd vote for Lucy the elephant over either of them next time.
    ... gobsmacked

  49. #49

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    Cyclist here. We dont want lanes down terwillegar, however, that unbuilt footbridge over the whitemud at about 142nd street would be amazing

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    "A city audit of the Edmonton's emergency management program suggests the department is ill-prepared to govern in the event of disasters like floods, fires or forced evacuation."

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...udit-1.5173824

    on the other hand, some might question why we would expect more in the event of disasters than we seem to settle for otherwise in the first place...
    Last edited by kcantor; 13-06-2019 at 12:48 PM.
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    The city can't manage everyday items, no surprise it's ill prepared for a major disaster or emergency.

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    Hoarding up to shut down the west escalator at Bay LRT station. Hoarding has been up for as long as I can remember on both east escalators.

    Oh, and the elevator is out-of-service.

    ETS' helpful advice is for those with mobility issues, to use Central or Corona so they have to walk further to their destination.
    ... gobsmacked

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    Or if you are in a wheelchair...
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    Apparently timing isn't everything at ETS.

    Or anything really.
    ... gobsmacked

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    "A city audit of the Edmonton's emergency management program suggests the department is ill-prepared to govern in the event of disasters like floods, fires or forced evacuation."

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...udit-1.5173824

    on the other hand, some might question why we would expect more in the event of disasters than we seem to settle for otherwise in the first place...
    .....

    • The municipal emergency plan is from 2004 and has not been updated, while the Emergency Management Bylaw was last updated in 2012.
    • There is a lack of clarity around the roles and responsibilities of emergency management staff in the event of a disaster.

    ...

    City administrators, who have been working with the department for years to identify potential shortfalls in protocol, have already accepted the recommendations of the auditor's report and are working to implement them, Knack said.
    Haven't updated the plan in over 15 years, no bylaws updated in seven years, admin has been working with them for an unidentified number of years but required an outside audit to identify these fairly obvious glaring issues, and apparently what they're supposed to do in a disaster is unclear.

    What exactly does the staff of this department do on any given day?
    I will beat the dead horse back to life.

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    https://twitter.com/ktomissa/status/1156274676135391232

    Kaelin Tomissa @ktomissa
    @CityofEdmonton closing a bike lane and sidewalks on both sides of the street? Please find a better solution for 103 St, even if that means closing a lane of vehicle traffic. #yegconstruction
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Hand to face...
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

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    Heck, along with 102 Ave partial and full closures, EPCOR digging up 107 Street - other bike lane closures, why the heck not!

    Barricades and closures good!!!
    ... gobsmacked

  59. #59

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    It's amazing how downtown sidewalks and bike lanes continue to be a place where we store or place road construction signs and markers... how can this city not get the basic things? We want this city, and especially downtown to be 'walkable' and bike and scooter friendly., but we continue to do stuff like this?

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    ^^

    you forgot 106 street between jasper and 102 (now moved north to between 102 and 103), 105 street being constricted on both sides of jasper (for so many years now it just seems normal and not a closure ), 99 avenue for the taste (now open again), the armature (96 street) at jasper, 101a avenue at the gibson block, all of which are in addition to 104 street (partial without the old market and full with), 103 avenue (for the new market) and rue hull (98 street) for the square/library/lrt, 103 street for the ice district plaza...

    and for what it's worth, i'm pretty sure this is far from a complete list.
    Last edited by kcantor; 31-07-2019 at 05:36 PM.
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    104th Ave btween 104 and 101 St. has been constricted for years.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    It's amazing how downtown sidewalks and bike lanes continue to be a place where we store or place road construction signs and markers... how can this city not get the basic things? We want this city, and especially downtown to be 'walkable' and bike and scooter friendly., but we continue to do stuff like this?
    I make a call/email once a day for this kind of stuff; drives me nuts.
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  64. #64

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    you keep on knocking, but there's no one home, or there may be someone home, but the message isn't being received. It's like the suggestion box accepts your suggestion and just shreds it. This isn't a new problem, nor is it newly identified.... It's like the city operates in split brain mode, Administration does there own thing, counter-intuitive to the initiatives council is trying to work on.

    bike lanes/sidewalks should not be blocked by construction signage for roadway notifications, or used as temporary storage places... things like this need to be worked out before we can ever realstically hope to become less of a car-centric city, even if just the core.

    Basic basic things that show we have a long way to go, and we are not making any progress in this afront. It's been like this for as long as I've frequented downtown, and despite IanO repeatedly calling and all the other noise that has been made on this subject, its still the same as it was decades ago, just more construction now, so more of an impact.


    Ian: what type of response do you get. who are you calling/emailing? Have you ever heard/seen improvements on this? I haven't.

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    I've grown quite frustrated with the lack of notice/signage indicating that River Valley Road EB is closed under Groat Road. The closures seem to happen with little notice, as well. There should be massive amounts of signage in the vicinity of 107 and 111 avenues before you get on Groat Road letting you know this. But nope. You just end up stuck in bumper to bumper traffic with no way out, dumped out in to the University area in the middle of rushhour, because between the Graham and the CoE, neither can manage to post signage indicating the closure.

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    And let's not forget the timely removal of signage when works have been completed.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/edmonton...a-year-ago/amp

    so this now needs more "public input" in order to "address the challenges"???

    no wonder we're in the trouble we're in.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  68. #68

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    Since they wanna open up the memorials to things like exercise equipment maybe we can pass the plate & get a "City Administration Commemorative" dumbell set for a local rec centre, to memorialize the dumbells in the Administration.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/edmonton...a-year-ago/amp

    so this now needs more "public input" in order to "address the challenges"???

    no wonder we're in the trouble we're in.
    Its not just CoE, St Al does the same thing. Every decision is sent back for more study or public input. I don't mind proper study or input but at some point you have to make a decision. No one ever wants to make a decision, they are afraid of a back lash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    I've grown quite frustrated with the lack of notice/signage indicating that River Valley Road EB is closed under Groat Road. The closures seem to happen with little notice, as well. There should be massive amounts of signage in the vicinity of 107 and 111 avenues before you get on Groat Road letting you know this. But nope. You just end up stuck in bumper to bumper traffic with no way out, dumped out in to the University area in the middle of rushhour, because between the Graham and the CoE, neither can manage to post signage indicating the closure.
    The City is VERY opposed to creating excessive signage along our streets!

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    i couldn't find a good transit thread to bump for this one so thought it would fit here just as well:

    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/costs-outweigh-revenue-auditor-offers-recommendations-to-improve-city-transit

    full fare revenues down 10% in the last 5 years and ridership has dropped by 2 million...
    Last edited by kcantor; 29-08-2019 at 04:15 PM. Reason: replaced link...
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    That link you supplied kcantor doesn't work for me, but here's an opinion piece that states those facts (those not a fan of Gunter, which I do not blame you, avert your gaze) https://edmontonsun.com/opinion/colu...ayers#comments
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    ^

    thanks - I replaced it with this direct link to the journal's article.

    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...e-city-transit
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    the tree that was in this grate - like so many others on jasper and elsewhere - was dead and has been for a very long time (measured in years, not weeks).

    but it was draped in rope lighting and at least during the winter matched the rest of the trees on the block for half the year. now that summer is departed and the rest of the trees are dropping their leaves to match this one, the city has apparently decided to remove the dead tree.

    it will be interesting to find out how they deal with the tripping hazard all winter now that there's no tree to keep you from stepping in the hole.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  75. #75

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    I'm sure the crews with the plywood circles painted in day-glo colours will be around in a little bit to drop it into the hole. At least, that seems to be how they took care of all the other similar situations DT.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    Maybe IanO can put the big E on it?

    Whatever happened to that anyway?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post


    the tree that was in this grate - like so many others on jasper and elsewhere - was dead and has been for a very long time (measured in years, not weeks).

    but it was draped in rope lighting and at least during the winter matched the rest of the trees on the block for half the year. now that summer is departed and the rest of the trees are dropping their leaves to match this one, the city has apparently decided to remove the dead tree.

    it will be interesting to find out how they deal with the tripping hazard all winter now that there's no tree to keep you from stepping in the hole.



    At least this one doesn't have an electrical plug-in box attached.

    Top_Dawg has seen several of these stumps left inside their grate and a plug-in box replete with three feet of conduit snaked over the grate.

    Just the other day Top_Dawg was trotting up to the intersection of 108 and Jasper by Queen Donair.

    Some dude was backing a stroller off a bus that was stopped and it happened to be right in front of one of these stumps.

    Sure enough he stepped backwards off the bus, right onto the plug-in box and tripped.



    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Maybe IanO can put the big E on it?

    Whatever happened to that anyway?

    It is buried in that same dusty archive where that beautiful CofE helium float was stashed never to be seen again.

    Right next to the colorful furniture and ping-pong table from that re-imagine Jasper goat rodeo.

    You know, the one that they were going to tweak and bring back the following summer.

    Then quietly let the whole embarrassment die and fade from taxpayers' consciousness.

    Such fond memories.

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    This was done this past weekend for the most part and they will be replaced and re-lit ASAP.

    ...let's see how long it takes.
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    They shouldn't be leaving blatant tripping hazards all over downtown sidewalks. The conduit/boxes are totally unacceptable and begging for a lawsuit.

  80. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    i couldn't find a good transit thread to bump for this one so thought it would fit here just as well:

    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/costs-outweigh-revenue-auditor-offers-recommendations-to-improve-city-transit

    full fare revenues down 10% in the last 5 years and ridership has dropped by 2 million...
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    ^

    thanks - I replaced it with this direct link to the journal's article.

    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...e-city-transit
    I haven’t read the article yet but of course it would drop off. They are all taking to the bike lanes now.

    “Full fare revenue has decreased by just over 10 per cent since 2014 and ridership has decreased by 2 million.”

    Since 2014. Yeah we all know that auditors aren’t the broadest thinking people. Note to bean counters: the economy does tend to matter once in a while. I’m not sure why I suspect this but I think oil prices falling from $100+/bbl to $30/bbl possibly, maybe, might just have an ever so mild effect on jobs and so, on transit ridership.
    Last edited by KC; 16-09-2019 at 12:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    This was done this past weekend for the most part and they will be replaced and re-lit ASAP.

    ...let's see how long it takes.
    not that i'm an arborist but i don't think they should be replacing in the fall anyway...

    while i know you transplant "in the spring or in the fall", in locations like this one transplanting in the spring will allow the root system to get established and for the soil to compact of the summer. in the fall, the root system won't be established and the ball will be exposed all winter to the salt both from the street and the from the adjacent sidewalks and will be wrapped in that layer of contamination when those roots should be expanding outwards in the spring. in the interim, once the rest of the block has lost its leaves, even the dead tree is as good a match for the streetscape as the new one we're putting at risk would be.

    but what do i know, i'm just a dumb developer.
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    ‘It has caught us off guard‘: Price to upkeep annexed gravel roads jumps by $1.19 million | Edmonton Journal

    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...y-1-19-million

  83. #83

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    They're definitely slippery. I finally managed to spend some time on my motorcycle over the last few weeks, and while making turns and accelerating or decelerating had my traction control and/or ABS come on, which just about never happens as I don't drive aggressively. You could definitely feel the shimmy. And that was when they were dry.

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    I could feel that in my little convertible with a stick, making quick turns south from 107 Ave.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    You think driving across it was bad? Walking my dog in the wintertime has been treacherous. I'm a healthy, able-bodied man, but I walk across every one of those f*cking crosswalks like a gingerly babcia after every snowfall. Good riddance.

    Some COE hack was on the news just now saying the project wasn't a "complete failure" –– pretty hard to imagine what was successful about it.
    “Son, one day this will be an iconic structure shaping Edmonton’s skyline.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesL View Post
    You think driving across it was bad? Walking my dog in the wintertime has been treacherous. I'm a healthy, able-bodied man, but I walk across every one of those f*cking crosswalks like a gingerly babcia after every snowfall. Good riddance.

    Some COE hack was on the news just now saying the project wasn't a "complete failure" –– pretty hard to imagine what was successful about it.
    those green "bicycle boxes" aren't any better other than their paint doesn't seem to have lasted as long and - at least when they're not under snow - you can skirt around them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    And let's not forget the timely removal of signage when works have been completed.
    .

    Yes it drives me nuts to see the signage /barricades/traffic cones that litter the landscape long after work has been completed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesL View Post
    Some COE hack was on the news just now saying the project wasn't a "complete failure" –– pretty hard to imagine what was successful about it.
    It was successful in that they didn't start applying it to every crosswalk they could find, and only did eight before realizing it wasn't a good idea. Further, after realizing what a failure it was, they admitted fault about it rather than doubling down on it. By CoE terms, that's a win.
    I will beat the dead horse back to life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    This was done this past weekend for the most part and they will be replaced and re-lit ASAP.

    ...let's see how long it takes.
    not that i'm an arborist but i don't think they should be replacing in the fall anyway...

    while i know you transplant "in the spring or in the fall", in locations like this one transplanting in the spring will allow the root system to get established and for the soil to compact of the summer. in the fall, the root system won't be established and the ball will be exposed all winter to the salt both from the street and the from the adjacent sidewalks and will be wrapped in that layer of contamination when those roots should be expanding outwards in the spring. in the interim, once the rest of the block has lost its leaves,
    but what do i know, i'm just a dumb developer.

    Hardly.

    Top_Dawg trotted by that location again today.

    And yes, new trees have been planted.

    Both look so scrawny and sickly.

    But one especially.

    The branches don't appear to be strong enough to bear the weight of LED lioghts that presumably ae planned to adorn them come yule.

    Hell, Top_Dawg is skeptical that these trees will even survive that long.

    " even the dead tree is as good a match for the streetscape as the new one we're putting at risk would be. "

    Xackly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    They're definitely slippery. I finally managed to spend some time on my motorcycle over the last few weeks, and while making turns and accelerating or decelerating had my traction control and/or ABS come on, which just about never happens as I don't drive aggressively. You could definitely feel the shimmy. And that was when they were dry.
    It looks like they’ve got the same fake red brick in the crosswalks at 116 st & 102 ave. It was still there this afternoon
    It's not EIA it's YEG

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    Quote Originally Posted by thegongshow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    They're definitely slippery. I finally managed to spend some time on my motorcycle over the last few weeks, and while making turns and accelerating or decelerating had my traction control and/or ABS come on, which just about never happens as I don't drive aggressively. You could definitely feel the shimmy. And that was when they were dry.
    It looks like they’ve got the same fake red brick in the crosswalks at 116 st & 102 ave. It was still there this afternoon
    “Speed kills.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by thegongshow View Post
    It looks like they’ve got the same fake red brick in the crosswalks at 116 st & 102 ave. It was still there this afternoon
    No, that's pavers.

    https://goo.gl/maps/f6u8fcP6QXuNUWrV7
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thegongshow View Post
    It looks like they’ve got the same fake red brick in the crosswalks at 116 st & 102 ave. It was still there this afternoon
    No, that's pavers.

    https://goo.gl/maps/f6u8fcP6QXuNUWrV7
    So what was the hoped for the advantage to using the other material?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    This was done this past weekend for the most part and they will be replaced and re-lit ASAP.

    ...let's see how long it takes.
    not that i'm an arborist but i don't think they should be replacing in the fall anyway...

    while i know you transplant "in the spring or in the fall", in locations like this one transplanting in the spring will allow the root system to get established and for the soil to compact of the summer. in the fall, the root system won't be established and the ball will be exposed all winter to the salt both from the street and the from the adjacent sidewalks and will be wrapped in that layer of contamination when those roots should be expanding outwards in the spring. in the interim, once the rest of the block has lost its leaves,
    but what do i know, i'm just a dumb developer.

    Hardly.

    Top_Dawg trotted by that location again today.

    And yes, new trees have been planted.

    Both look so scrawny and sickly.

    But one especially.

    The branches don't appear to be strong enough to bear the weight of LED lioghts that presumably ae planned to adorn them come yule.

    Hell, Top_Dawg is skeptical that these trees will even survive that long.

    " even the dead tree is as good a match for the streetscape as the new one we're putting at risk would be. "

    Xackly.
    just had to take a picture of the replacement street tree:



    it's there, it really is. it's just peeking over the back hatch of the hyundai.

    for a city that says it has 26,550 street trees you'd think we would have a tree farm somewhere that would allow them to grow a bit bigger than this before being replanted in a pretty stressful place.
    Last edited by kcantor; 17-09-2019 at 09:55 PM.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    My annual Christmas tree is taller
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    (...)

    for a city that says it has 26,550 street trees you'd think we would have a tree farm somewhere that would allow them to grow a bit bigger than this before being replanted in a pretty stressful place.
    I know a place that the City of Edmonton could do some outreach to after decimating it both with coal and aggregate...that could grow these trees, and an amateur orchardist to boot.
    President and CEO - Airshow.

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    “Son, one day this will be an iconic structure shaping Edmonton’s skyline.”

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    Donny boy must've been rooting around some garden centre's fall clearout of trees saving the taxpayers with a 40% discount.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thegongshow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    They're definitely slippery. I finally managed to spend some time on my motorcycle over the last few weeks, and while making turns and accelerating or decelerating had my traction control and/or ABS come on, which just about never happens as I don't drive aggressively. You could definitely feel the shimmy. And that was when they were dry.
    It looks like they’ve got the same fake red brick in the crosswalks at 116 st & 102 ave. It was still there this afternoon
    “Speed kills.”
    So do crappy road surfaces even when driven at posted limits. Motorcycles need traction to stay upright while cornering, regardless of speed.

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