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Thread: Feds MIA On Crucial Expo Meeting

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Calgary Mayor Naheed Nenshi and Edmonton Mayor Stephen Mandel will be on Alberta Primetime tonight (7 and 11 pm on Access TV).

    Hopefully Mandel is still fuming about the Expo snub. That would make for an entertaining show.
    I watched it, and he decided he already said his piece. But he did mention that City Council has had a mostly positive relationship with local MPs, but that their most important relationship is with the province.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Security a red herring?

    http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/lo...b=EdmontonHome
    Local MP Rona Ambrose is speaking out after Mandel accused her of being the one responsible for the feds' support being scrapped for the city's bid.

    She has defended the government's decision saying security costs would have added hundreds of millions of dollars to Ottawa's chunk of the bill.
    "We can not afford this kind of an expenditure at this time," she said.

    "We've seen what happened with G8, G20 and we've seen what happened with the Olympics," she added.

    But correspondence from earlier this month between local and federal officials obtained by CTV News suggests something different. It reads: "Officials at public safety believe the $10.9 million dollar estimate is accurate for federal security agencies."

    But Ambrose continues to insist the security of oilsands facilities would cause the bill to escalate.

    "While they may be legitimate security costs, they are very, very expensive and they could've eclipsed up to a billion dollars," she said.

    The mayor isn't buying it.
    "That's B.S., I'm sorry."

    Alberta's Minister of Labour Thomas Lukaszuk agrees with Mandel.
    "Our oilsands are secure everyday. There are terrorism risk assessments done on an ongoing basis and we are satisfied that they are secure," he said.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I'm glad a few people have mentioned Anne McLellan in this thread because she has done more for our city federally than anyone else in recent memory. Just off the top of my head she brought to our city:

    - the Nanotech Institute at the U of A
    - the womens' prision in the NW
    - the consolidated army base in Namao

    All these things have created good jobs and have injected a lot of money into the city. It makes me laugh that the Liberals have done more to respond to western alienation than the cons, who play it up constantly. Frankly I think a clean sweep of the city's current MPs could only be a good thing at this point.

    PS: There is a reason Rona Ambrose is known as "The Potted Plant" around Ottawa.

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    I hereby will support Liberals.

    Thank you very much S Harper.
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    gotta say im relieved to hear that the expo didnt go through. im not a big believer that these kinds of events change cities for the best. often a lot of debt is incurred, poor people get displaced (maybe not the case here...), a lot of building is slapped up very quickly and maybe not of the highest quality construction or design. what ever happened to that plan to build a new urban-type mainstreet the university had made up? as a resident of lendrum, i would much prefer that kind of amenity near by than a lot of the stuff promised for expo.

  6. #206
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    expo being the catalyst behind large pavilion construction, cash is freed up for everything else. the plans you mention? I would say the wait is now at least a decade longer.

  7. #207

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    so you're telling me the university and city have all this money they are just waiting to spend on development, if only there were some pavilion to build it around? that sounds silly - a large pavilion shouldn't be the linchpin for south campus development. why not just develop a nice campus for students, staff and the city instead of needing the excuse of an international fair to get started. these kind of legacy projects reek of executive ego massage.

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    no, I am telling you that they now have to raise much, much more than they had to raise if the Expo was funded and Edmonton had won the bid.

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    good, at least this way there wont be bunch of gaudy, out of context convention space built on what is a historically significant farm in a suburban area.

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    so, you have a crystal ball that tells you what these buildings would have looked like?

    yes, you are probably the only one in the world (whether or not you have architect training) to know how these buildings should have been designed so that they could function as education space post expo.

    have a good morning.

  11. #211

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    listen, im speaking kind of generally here because obviously no firm plans will ever be made, but from what i saw of the mock-ups for the expo the "flavor" the organizers were going for didnt fit the context of the area.

    i know that semi-modular stuff gets built successfully (curling facility in van comes to mind) for these one off events, i simply had reservations that south campus would not be the best place for the kind of large convention space needed for an event like expo and the vision presented in general.

    because you disagree with my opinion you dont need to be a prick.

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    well, you should come out and say what you mean and not insinuate that the stuff will be gaudy. you've looked at mock-ups and became an expert on Expo proposal. You are definitely entitled to your opinion, but frame it as an opinion, not as a the cornerstone of all truth as we know it and my reception to your posts will be a whole lot less prickly.

  13. #213

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    so adding IMO to the start of every sentence would make you chill out?

    IMO that is kinda lame - you know damn well what im writing here is an opinion not fact.

  14. #214

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    I hereby will support Liberals.
    Have the Liberal party said they would have supported Edmonton's expo bid? I'm not sure (they are pushing the government to be cost conscious at the moment).

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    I hereby will support Liberals.
    Have the Liberal party said they would have supported Edmonton's expo bid? I'm not sure (they are pushing the government to be cost conscious at the moment).
    It's not about the liberals.

    It's about the pot of sleaze called Stephen Harper.

    And -- it's also about his remaining supporters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    I hereby will support Liberals.
    Have the Liberal party said they would have supported Edmonton's expo bid? I'm not sure (they are pushing the government to be cost conscious at the moment).
    If it was Anne and not Rona, it would have happened.

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    I believe that not to long ago our so called Mayor made a statement " This issue is dead, get over it, and its time to move on " How does it feel Mandel being now on the other side?

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    Quote Originally Posted by abaka View Post
    ^there is more to energy than saving it.

    Otherwise you could just turn off the lights and curl up under the snow.
    There is more to non-renewable energy than saving it, such as using non-renewable energy wisely and for essential purposes and not wasting it unnecessarily.

    The theme of Edmonton EXPO 2017 would have been “Energy and Our Planet”.

    Not having EXPO 2017 will result in huge savings in unnecessary and unessential non-renewable energy expenditure and will be good for our part of the planet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AsRoma View Post
    I believe that not to long ago our so called Mayor made a statement " This issue is dead, get over it, and its time to move on " How does it feel Mandel being now on the other side?
    He did move on Mandel did not mention on Alberta PrimeTime last night anything about the Expo funding getting cancelled.

    Also It's Apples and Oranges since you are referring to the CCA as the city has been working on shutting it down since the early 1990's. While the Feds themselves asked Edmonton to submit the bid for Canada then turn around and cancel their support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dpwozney View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by abaka View Post
    ^there is more to energy than saving it.

    Otherwise you could just turn off the lights and curl up under the snow.
    There is more to non-renewable energy than saving it, such as using non-renewable energy wisely and for essential purposes and not wasting it unnecessarily.

    The theme of Edmonton EXPO 2017 would have been “Energy and Our Planet”.

    Not having EXPO 2017 will result in huge savings in unnecessary and unessential non-renewable energy expenditure and will be good for our part of the planet.
    Tell this to Toronto, and their 2015 Pan Am Games committee
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpwozney View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by abaka View Post
    ^there is more to energy than saving it.

    Otherwise you could just turn off the lights and curl up under the snow.
    There is more to non-renewable energy than saving it, such as using non-renewable energy wisely and for essential purposes and not wasting it unnecessarily.

    The theme of Edmonton EXPO 2017 would have been “Energy and Our Planet”.

    Not having EXPO 2017 will result in huge savings in unnecessary and unessential non-renewable energy expenditure and will be good for our part of the planet.
    I see that the "Flat earthers" have arrived........

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    AsRoma - this thread is the Expo 17 thread. why are you comparing apples and chainsaws? if your going post something, read the thread topic first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Calgary Mayor Naheed Nenshi and Edmonton Mayor Stephen Mandel will be on Alberta Primetime tonight (7 and 11 pm on Access TV).

    Hopefully Mandel is still fuming about the Expo snub. That would make for an entertaining show.
    I watched it, and he decided he already said his piece. But he did mention that City Council has had a mostly positive relationship with local MPs, but that their most important relationship is with the province.
    I think he's still mad, but I really think he had moved one.There isnt much else he can do.I really love nenshi! what delightful man( and mayor)

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    Jasper I know exactly what this thread is about. Do you understand sarcasm when you hear it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by darrellinyvr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dpwozney View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by abaka View Post
    ^there is more to energy than saving it.

    Otherwise you could just turn off the lights and curl up under the snow.
    There is more to non-renewable energy than saving it, such as using non-renewable energy wisely and for essential purposes and not wasting it unnecessarily.

    The theme of Edmonton EXPO 2017 would have been “Energy and Our Planet”.

    Not having EXPO 2017 will result in huge savings in unnecessary and unessential non-renewable energy expenditure and will be good for our part of the planet.
    I see that the "Flat earthers" have arrived........
    In your view, who are these “Flat earthers”?

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    My patience wears thin again with the personal attacks.

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    I have been thinking about moving out of Edmonton.. Expo was the major reason I would stay... now I am feeleing a very strong urge to uproot.

    Just an interesting side note..
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    I have been thinking about moving out of Edmonton.. Expo was the major reason I would stay... now I am feeleing a very strong urge to uproot.

    Just an interesting side note..
    Where you thinking of moving?
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    Moving is a common theme I'm hearing as of late.

    It comes down to opportunity. In my line of work, Edmonton offers little opportunity. I chose to be here and it will be sad if I have to leave now that my circumstances have changed.

    An EXPO would have given Edmonton the exposure it could leverage into getting more employers or R&D here to move other aspects of diversifying our employment base. Right now for me, that base truly is in the GTA, the US North East, Texas, and to some extent Calgary.

    The global competition that we live in today..we need that extra leg up.

    I am still waiting for more information...the excuse of security costs is not washing well with me given that Canada will continue to host international events during this time of fiscal restraint, whether it wants to or not. Those too will have security costs...
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    ^ Bingo and thank you.

    This is exactly what frustrates me so much at everyone wringing their hands because of how much this upset Mandel. This isn't his loss. This is Edmonton's loss. Barring any major last-minute boost in financial support from the province, the region, and local businesses to cover the shortfall, we all just lost.
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    Ya I have to leave as well cause of the closure of the airport. We owe that to our beoved mayor.

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    Some see not getting an Expo as dodging a bullet. If the city has any sense they can use this as an opportunity to leverage something more meaningful from the province and feds.

  33. #233

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    I have been thinking about moving out of Edmonton.. Expo was the major reason I would stay... now I am feeleing a very strong urge to uproot.

    Just an interesting side note..
    Where you thinking of moving?
    Not sure.. but at this point even Calgary has more oppertunity for me then Edmonton. If I stay it will be to attend the U of A.

    I'm currently thinking about studying Urban Planning, but the 7 plus years of school is a bit off putting at 31 y/o
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    Quote Originally Posted by AsRoma View Post
    Ya I have to leave as well cause of the closure of the airport. We owe that to our beoved mayor.
    Sorry you lost your job but the closure of YXD was the right decision for the City, this has been discussed ad nasuem in numerous other threads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andy8244 View Post
    Some see not getting an Expo as dodging a bullet. If the city has any sense they can use this as an opportunity to leverage something more meaningful from the province and feds.
    +1
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by andy8244 View Post
    Some see not getting an Expo as dodging a bullet. If the city has any sense they can use this as an opportunity to leverage something more meaningful from the province and feds.
    +1
    I believe the Harper government owes this City big time for all his **** ups. I want a pound of flesh from him...and will take it in infrastructure spending. Pronto.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andy8244 View Post
    Some see not getting an Expo as dodging a bullet. If the city has any sense they can use this as an opportunity to leverage something more meaningful from the province and feds.
    I agree with this.

    Tell them to still fund our LRT.
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    Funding for LRT expansion, Indy (assuming we still keep it), Folk Fest and Fringe. Especially seeing that the Stampede can get millions from Edmontonians' federal tax money.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Although I think this fair could have been a waste of money, it bugs me that most media are framing this as Edmonton's and Mandel's doing when in fact it was the feds that wanted the World's fair (and portrait gallery) and in both cases the feds trash Edmonton's image (and money/time/expertise) to make themselves the heroes in the rest of Canada with their fiscal restraint. Not only this but wait until the last possible second for a decision in both cases that maximize the trashing effect like we're the incompetent ones. This looks like two very transparent cases of dealing in bad faith and the government should actually make legal repairs of the situation as every other citizen and business would have to do in a similar situation.

    This isn't just losing a world's fair - this should be looked at (as the courts would do) as someone having invested and now wasted a lot of time and effort at another's behest. We are now owed big time and that includes our image. Lots of the posts on here and other sites show outright depression. This was a gigantic rug pulling on the City of Edmonton who were the only ones that were competent enough to put a plan together but end up with egg all over their/our collective faces. I too am waiting for Edmonton's compensation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andy8244 View Post
    Some see not getting an Expo as dodging a bullet. If the city has any sense they can use this as an opportunity to leverage something more meaningful from the province and feds.

    ...already working on it...
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpwozney View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by darrellinyvr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dpwozney View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by abaka View Post
    ^there is more to energy than saving it.

    Otherwise you could just turn off the lights and curl up under the snow.
    There is more to non-renewable energy than saving it, such as using non-renewable energy wisely and for essential purposes and not wasting it unnecessarily.

    The theme of Edmonton EXPO 2017 would have been “Energy and Our Planet”.

    Not having EXPO 2017 will result in huge savings in unnecessary and unessential non-renewable energy expenditure and will be good for our part of the planet.
    I see that the "Flat earthers" have arrived........
    In your view, who are these “Flat earthers”?
    That would be you.

    The South Campus lands will get developed Expo or not so there will be as you put it "unessential non-renewable energy expenditure" regardless.

    If you do not drive, use electricity, and are 100% off the grid in everything you do then you can talk about unessential non-renewable energy expenditures for the rest of us who happen to live in the 21st Century an Expo showcasing the possiblilities of renewable, feasible, energy developments could only benefit the city, province, country.

    But if you can build an Expo out of timber, grass, cow poop, and recycled pop bottles go for it.

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    I guess Harper will (or maybe he'll chicken out) be here this weekend for the Grey Cup game. I hope every fan in the stadium will boo their lungs out and give either the classic Roman thumbs-down or the middle finger bird if and when His Sliminess' presence is announced.
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    Funny thing I fired off three emails to Rona Ambrose, Laurie Hawn and (again thanks Royal Canadian Air Farce! The Pie Wagon Stephen Harper)

    As I mentioned earlier Rona responded personally, From Laurie Hawn who supported the bid, a form letter response from his parliamentary secretary who will forward my correspondence "At the earliest possible convenience"
    So far nothing from the great and fearless PieWagon PM Harper......

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    Quote Originally Posted by darrellinyvr View Post
    Funny thing I fired off three emails to Rona Ambrose, Laurie Hawn and (again thanks Royal Canadian Air Farce! The Pie Wagon Stephen Harper)

    As I mentioned earlier Rona responded personally, From Laurie Hawn who supported the bid, a form letter response from his parliamentary secretary who will forward my correspondence "At the earliest possible convenience"
    So far nothing from the great and fearless PieWagon PM Harper......
    I'm sure he's waiting to have a chat with you in person and garner your views on the subject when he comes to town at the weekend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    I guess Harper will (or maybe he'll chicken out) be here this weekend for the Grey Cup game. I hope every fan in the stadium will boo their lungs out and give either the classic Roman thumbs-down or the middle finger bird if and when His Sliminess' presence is announced.
    On CTVnews at 6 they said the PMO has not decided as yet wether Harper will attend the game. My guess he will be a no show. Since his schedules are worked out in advance he'll crap out and hide in Calgary and ribbon cut at a Tim Hortons or Jiffy Lube in his riding.

    Fine by me it will be a FAR better party without his dynamic presence....

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by andy8244 View Post
    Some see not getting an Expo as dodging a bullet. If the city has any sense they can use this as an opportunity to leverage something more meaningful from the province and feds.
    +1
    I believe the Harper government owes this City big time for all his **** ups. I want a pound of flesh from him...and will take it in infrastructure spending. Pronto.
    Take as many pounds of flesh from the ****ing ******* son of a ***** pervert scumbag liar as you like. But don't even think of voting for him.

    Because if you do.... what are you then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by andy8244 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by darrellinyvr View Post
    Funny thing I fired off three emails to Rona Ambrose, Laurie Hawn and (again thanks Royal Canadian Air Farce! The Pie Wagon Stephen Harper)

    As I mentioned earlier Rona responded personally, From Laurie Hawn who supported the bid, a form letter response from his parliamentary secretary who will forward my correspondence "At the earliest possible convenience"
    So far nothing from the great and fearless PieWagon PM Harper......
    I'm sure he's waiting to have a chat with you in person and garner your views on the subject when he comes to town at the weekend.
    Well I don't see you contributing to anything in regards to this (aside from your typical Edmonton bashing) But I suppose (and I'm guessing here) that since they will not grant you citizenship due to that unfortunate incident with that sheep in Essex you really don't care.........

    I'm sure David Cameron or Nick Clegg are all ears for your suggestions to get blighty out of the economic mess it's in. Oh wait! you left! and here you are! Unhappy and seemingly stateless in Edmonton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abaka View Post
    Take as many pounds of flesh from the ****ing ******* son of a ***** pervert scumbag liar as you like. But don't even think of voting for him.
    I never understood this sort of hatred for politicians that borders on slander. I mean, I was pretty upset at Chretien and the sponsorship scandal, but it doesn't mean he isn't someone I wouldn't have a beer with. You may hate Harpers policies and decisions but does that really translate to the names you call him? Why so personal?

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    ^ I don't understand your naivete on this, moa. You seem like a fairly astute fella in general.

    It stems from the fact that Harper seemingly(?) doesn't give a rat's about you and I, in the global sense, so why would anyone feel as if the guy didn't deserve a stiff shot of vitriol. Public figures put themselves up for it the moment they decide to become public figures.
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy8244 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by darrellinyvr View Post
    Funny thing I fired off three emails to Rona Ambrose, Laurie Hawn and (again thanks Royal Canadian Air Farce! The Pie Wagon Stephen Harper)

    As I mentioned earlier Rona responded personally, From Laurie Hawn who supported the bid, a form letter response from his parliamentary secretary who will forward my correspondence "At the earliest possible convenience"
    So far nothing from the great and fearless PieWagon PM Harper......
    I'm sure he's waiting to have a chat with you in person and garner your views on the subject when he comes to town at the weekend.
    When you go along for your heart to heart you may want to take Abaka along with you – he seems to have a few things he wants to get off his chest.

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    Rona ambrose did e-mail me as saying:

    Dear Mr. Arsenault:

    Thank you for your letter in which you shared with me your views regarding the Government’s decision regarding the city of Edmonton’s bid to host Expo 2017.

    Let me assure you that the decision not to support the bid for Expo 2017 was difficult given the hard work of so many Edmontonians involved. Ultimately, the bid could have come from any city in the country and the decision would have been the same.

    As a result, due to concerns about the high costs of this event, the Government of Canada will not support a bid going forward for Expo 2017. This decision was one that was arrived at after great examination and respect for taxpayers’ interests. As you know, there is an enormous cost tied to an event like Expo. It is a risk and we have learned that security costs can rocket up like they did with the most recent Olympics.

    What I have worked on, along with my Edmonton colleagues, is delivering tangible concrete projects. In fact, in the past few years we have invested a half-billion of federal dollars in public infrastructure in the Edmonton area.

    As you know, Canada has emerged from the recent global economic crisis faster and stronger than most other major industrial countries around the world. However, our economic recovery remains fragile. As we move forward, our Government’s priority will be to control spending and keep taxes low.

    A key element of the next phase of our Government’s Economic Action Plan will be to return to balanced budgets. Our Government’s most recent Budget committed to “aggressively review all spending to ensure value for money” with a goal of eliminating the federal deficit by 2015. Recently, the Minister of Finance announced that the Government will not make significant new government spending commitments this year. This requires difficult decisions.

    Please be assured that the Government carefully reviewed the business plan submitted by the City of Edmonton and its bid organizers, including its costs and obligations. It should be noted that support for the Expo bid would require a financial commitment from the Government that could easily eclipse $1 billion, given the costs of security and other necessary obligations for the federal government to host an event of this size.

    Our Government always has, and always will continue to invest in and celebrate the very best of Canadian culture. In fact, we supported Edmonton’s bid to host the 2015 World University Games. At the same time, we are committed to supporting Canada’s economic recovery and to do so, we must remain prudent and respect taxpayers’ money.

    Thank you again for taking the time to write to me. I am, indeed, grateful.

    Yours sincerely,


    Hon. Rona Ambrose, PC, MP.
    Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

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    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    Rona ambrose did e-mail me as saying:

    Thank you again for taking the time to write to me. I am, indeed, grateful.

    Yours sincerely,


    Hon. Rona Ambrose, PC, MP.
    Not nearly as grateful for any vote you can scrounge next time around. C ya.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    Rona ambrose did e-mail me as saying:

    Dear Mr. Arsenault:

    Thank you for your letter in which you shared with me your views regarding the Government’s decision regarding the city of Edmonton’s bid to host Expo 2017.

    Let me assure you that the decision not to support the bid for Expo 2017 was difficult given the hard work of so many Edmontonians involved. Ultimately, the bid could have come from any city in the country and the decision would have been the same.

    As a result, due to concerns about the high costs of this event, the Government of Canada will not support a bid going forward for Expo 2017. This decision was one that was arrived at after great examination and respect for taxpayers’ interests. As you know, there is an enormous cost tied to an event like Expo. It is a risk and we have learned that security costs can rocket up like they did with the most recent Olympics.

    What I have worked on, along with my Edmonton colleagues, is delivering tangible concrete projects. In fact, in the past few years we have invested a half-billion of federal dollars in public infrastructure in the Edmonton area.

    As you know, Canada has emerged from the recent global economic crisis faster and stronger than most other major industrial countries around the world. However, our economic recovery remains fragile. As we move forward, our Government’s priority will be to control spending and keep taxes low.

    A key element of the next phase of our Government’s Economic Action Plan will be to return to balanced budgets. Our Government’s most recent Budget committed to “aggressively review all spending to ensure value for money” with a goal of eliminating the federal deficit by 2015. Recently, the Minister of Finance announced that the Government will not make significant new government spending commitments this year. This requires difficult decisions.

    Please be assured that the Government carefully reviewed the business plan submitted by the City of Edmonton and its bid organizers, including its costs and obligations. It should be noted that support for the Expo bid would require a financial commitment from the Government that could easily eclipse $1 billion, given the costs of security and other necessary obligations for the federal government to host an event of this size.

    Our Government always has, and always will continue to invest in and celebrate the very best of Canadian culture. In fact, we supported Edmonton’s bid to host the 2015 World University Games. At the same time, we are committed to supporting Canada’s economic recovery and to do so, we must remain prudent and respect taxpayers’ money.

    Thank you again for taking the time to write to me. I am, indeed, grateful.

    Yours sincerely,


    Hon. Rona Ambrose, PC, MP.

    I got the EXACT SAME EMAIL as well.

    [COPY-PASTE]

    THough not surprised.
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    I'm not surprised either. I doubt Ms. Ambrose has the time to write lengthy personalized emails to everyone who's upset because they didn't get everything they wanted.

    I understand why the Feds didn't want to be on the hook for a BILLION+ dollars for a festival. They didn't see the real value, and, frankly, neither do I. There are more pressing needs (as opposed to wants), and we don't have the money. It would have meant similar commitments to more than a few other communties, and hardly fits in with slaying the deficit and an austerity budget. A BILLION here. A BILLION there. Pretty soon you're talking about real money.

    We don't want to end up like Ireland. Or Greece. Or Spain, Portugal, etc. These aren't the best of times, obviously.

    I'll have a problem with this only if Quebec gets a ton of Fed $ for their proposed arena. I think that's likely off the table too.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 24-11-2010 at 11:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy8244 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by andy8244 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by darrellinyvr View Post
    Funny thing I fired off three emails to Rona Ambrose, Laurie Hawn and (again thanks Royal Canadian Air Farce! The Pie Wagon Stephen Harper)

    As I mentioned earlier Rona responded personally, From Laurie Hawn who supported the bid, a form letter response from his parliamentary secretary who will forward my correspondence "At the earliest possible convenience"
    So far nothing from the great and fearless PieWagon PM Harper......
    I'm sure he's waiting to have a chat with you in person and garner your views on the subject when he comes to town at the weekend.
    When you go along for your heart to heart you may want to take Abaka along with you – he seems to have a few things he wants to get off his chest.
    While I emailed my opposition in regards to his majesties funding decision I was civil and polite about it. PW may have reasons for yanking the rug out from under Edmonton I'm also allowed to express my anger, dismay, shock, etc etc etc to Harper, Hawn, Ambrose etc in a civil manner.

    But When you see Stephen hiding from Edmonton at the ribbon cutting at Tim Hortons somewhere in SW Calgary this weekend (I'm guessing that since your such a Calgary fan he will let you hold the ribbon) Do say hi.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I'm not surprised either. I doubt Ms. Ambrose has the time to write lengthy personalized emails to everyone who's upset because they didn't get everything they wanted.

    I understand why the Feds didn't want to be on the hook for a BILLION+ dollars for a festival. They didn't see the real value, and, frankly, neither do I. There are more pressing needs (as opposed to wants), and we don't have the money. It would have meant similar commitments to more than a few other communties, and hardly fits in with slaying the deficit and an austerity budget. A BILLION here. A BILLION there. Pretty soon you're talking about real money.

    We don't want to end up like Ireland. Or Greece. Or Spain, Portugal, etc. These aren't the best of times, obviously.

    I'll have a problem with this only if Quebec gets a ton of Fed $ for their proposed arena. I think that's likely off the table too.
    I'm guessing I sent my email to Rona before the deluge because it wasn't by a staff flunky......

    Also the feds were not going to be on the hook for a "billion" dollars If you believe that! I have some lovely beachfront property in Florida I can sell you at a real savings......
    Last edited by NielCole; 24-11-2010 at 11:30 PM.

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    Could you guarantee it would only be SEVEN HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS, plus security of just over $10M? Those kinds of costs have an unfortunate tendency to go way up between the sales pitch and the reality, because some treat the federal coffers like a bottomless pit of money.

    $700 Million dollars is still a whole bunch of dough, regardless.

    I'm not in the market for any beachfront property in Florida. I have to watch my budget.
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    Look.

    To sum up this thread, Canada has always been "Eastern Canada" - Montreal, Ottawa, and Toronto.

    I'm not trying to start a flame war, but it's the truth.
    The population base and the voters are there.

    Had one of the top 3 considered holding Expo 2017 for Canada's 150th birthday, security costs would not have been an issue.
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  59. #259

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    ^ I don't understand your naivete on this, moa. You seem like a fairly astute fella in general.

    It stems from the fact that Harper seemingly(?) doesn't give a rat's about you and I, in the global sense, so why would anyone feel as if the guy didn't deserve a stiff shot of vitriol. Public figures put themselves up for it the moment they decide to become public figures.
    Politicians are basically people with big egos who need that fed (not unlike many of us C2E posters I guess). I realize they put themselves out there for it (unlike most of us C2E posters), but generally, the few I have met have been pretty charasmatic folks / good people at a personal level. I don't think they intentionally are trying to hurt you or me, its more a matter of fullfilling their agenda, be it one they consider in the nations interest (which is normally the case), or a personal one (which you more often see in localized politics where friends and family can benefit from decisions). Left or Right, I don't think the hatred of them personally really makes sense.

  60. #260

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    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    Thank you again for taking the time to write to me. I am, indeed, grateful.

    Yours sincerely,


    Hon. Rona Ambrose, PC, MP.
    When it's laid out like that it makes me proud to be an Albertan.

    While the Bloc is championing Quebec interests, the Liberals championing Ontario's and the NDP championing B.C.'s, the Conservatives from Alberta are keeping all of Canada's collective interests at heart.

    Damn we are a selfless province....

  61. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    Rona ambrose did e-mail me as saying:

    Dear Mr. Arsenault:

    Thank you for your letter in which you shared with me your views regarding the Government’s decision regarding the city of Edmonton’s bid to host Expo 2017.

    Let me assure you that the decision not to support the bid for Expo 2017 was difficult given the hard work of so many Edmontonians involved. Ultimately, the bid could have come from any city in the country and the decision would have been the same.

    As a result, due to concerns about the high costs of this event, the Government of Canada will not support a bid going forward for Expo 2017. This decision was one that was arrived at after great examination and respect for taxpayers’ interests. As you know, there is an enormous cost tied to an event like Expo. It is a risk and we have learned that security costs can rocket up like they did with the most recent Olympics.

    What I have worked on, along with my Edmonton colleagues, is delivering tangible concrete projects. In fact, in the past few years we have invested a half-billion of federal dollars in public infrastructure in the Edmonton area.

    As you know, Canada has emerged from the recent global economic crisis faster and stronger than most other major industrial countries around the world. However, our economic recovery remains fragile. As we move forward, our Government’s priority will be to control spending and keep taxes low.

    A key element of the next phase of our Government’s Economic Action Plan will be to return to balanced budgets. Our Government’s most recent Budget committed to “aggressively review all spending to ensure value for money” with a goal of eliminating the federal deficit by 2015. Recently, the Minister of Finance announced that the Government will not make significant new government spending commitments this year. This requires difficult decisions.

    Please be assured that the Government carefully reviewed the business plan submitted by the City of Edmonton and its bid organizers, including its costs and obligations. It should be noted that support for the Expo bid would require a financial commitment from the Government that could easily eclipse $1 billion, given the costs of security and other necessary obligations for the federal government to host an event of this size.

    Our Government always has, and always will continue to invest in and celebrate the very best of Canadian culture. In fact, we supported Edmonton’s bid to host the 2015 World University Games. At the same time, we are committed to supporting Canada’s economic recovery and to do so, we must remain prudent and respect taxpayers’ money.

    Thank you again for taking the time to write to me. I am, indeed, grateful.

    Yours sincerely,


    Hon. Rona Ambrose, PC, MP.

    I got the EXACT SAME EMAIL as well.

    [COPY-PASTE]

    THough not surprised.
    I stand corrrected! my replywas personal i'm guessing only in the fact it I got it first.... LOL!
    You got copies of mine.....(quelle suprise ) That way she could be indeed grateful far easier........

    But the more of us who tie up her office with letters, emails and such the better understanding perhaps of how ****** off Edmonton is about this decision.

  62. #262
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    People can rationalize it all they want, but the feds not backing the Expo bid has nothing to do with cost. If it did, then the feds would be treating different cities equally. They are not and have not. That, ultimately, is what has people like me upset at them.

    If it costs too much, then fine. But funding Toronto's project, but not Edmonton's is unfair. Period. End of story.

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    ^^^lol... good god I hope you are kidding...

  64. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by darrellinyvr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dpwozney View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by darrellinyvr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dpwozney View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by abaka View Post
    ^there is more to energy than saving it.

    Otherwise you could just turn off the lights and curl up under the snow.
    There is more to non-renewable energy than saving it, such as using non-renewable energy wisely and for essential purposes and not wasting it unnecessarily.

    The theme of Edmonton EXPO 2017 would have been “Energy and Our Planet”.

    Not having EXPO 2017 will result in huge savings in unnecessary and unessential non-renewable energy expenditure and will be good for our part of the planet.
    I see that the "Flat earthers" have arrived........
    In your view, who are these “Flat earthers”?
    That would be you.
    I do not believe or advocate the theory that the earth is flat.

    Quote Originally Posted by darrellinyvr View Post
    If you do not drive, use electricity, and are 100% off the grid in everything you do then you can talk about unessential non-renewable energy expenditures for the rest of us who happen to live in the 21st Century an Expo showcasing the possiblilities of renewable, feasible, energy developments could only benefit the city, province, country.
    Driving, using electricity, and being on the grid can be, and often are, necessary and essential uses of non-renewable energy. Having Expo 2017 is not a necessary and essential use of non-renewable energy. Unnecessary and unessential non-renewable energy use has a negative economic and environmental consequence. Renewable feasible energy developments are being done and will be done without an Expo showcasing them. Possible renewable feasible energy developments do not require an Expo for them to be done and showcased .

    Quote Originally Posted by darrellinyvr View Post
    But if you can build an Expo out of timber, grass, cow poop, and recycled pop bottles go for it.
    I have no desire to do so, nor do I see the need for such an Expo.

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    Security costs .... I'm still fuminhg over that one.

    Right, $300 million to what, discover Paul R. Bear's real identity? Cut down a couple of juvenille banners?

    Hey, we could make security an event! You know, Canadian Forces take on Greenpeace in a rappel duel? I'd pay to see that.
    ... gobsmacked

  66. #266

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Security costs .... I'm still fuminhg over that one.
    Why? It's pretty obvious that it would be a real issue, with protestors coming here to highlight how we kill ducks and bulls, not to mention world leaders attending (if any bother, I guess maybe none would given how irrelevant expos are).

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    Stephen, Rona et al are trying to compare Expo security to G20 or Olympics security.

    It doesn't wash. It's piffle.

    The security for Olympics is because, with a global TV audience they're a terrorist's dream (Munich).

    Security for G20 is somewhat about protestors (anarchists being of the most concern) and property rights - but mostly required by the presence of the world's 20 most influential decision makers and their entourage - again a terrorist's dream.

    But oil sands protestors? Such as we have already are a pretty tame, gosh you might even say civil bunch. They pull off a stunt here or there - pretty tame - pretty easy to handle with existing resources.

    Heck, give em a stage they can protest on every day, all day if they like. They're not going to (intentionally) hurt anyone. It's bad press.

    In the event of a visiting dignitary for whom there is a perceived risk of threat - then appropriate security measures would be required only for the period of time they are here.

    But surely, Expo or not, we want dignitaries to visit Edmonton and leave having nice things to say?
    ... gobsmacked

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    Funny, I remember Stephen Harper being attracted to the Reform Party for reasons very much like this:

    Ottawa and Quebec are closing in on a deal to compensate the province for harmonizing its sales tax a decade ago, The Canadian Press has learned.

    An agreement that would potentially send billions to Quebec ...

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1814062/

    Just highlights the arrogance of the Tories kiss-off to Edmonton doesn't it?
    ... gobsmacked

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    So does anyone think that any of the feds will show up to the game on Sunday ?
    Talk about the potential need for security
    Still waiting for the Arlington site to be reborn .......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueline View Post
    So does anyone think that any of the feds will show up to the game on Sunday ?
    Talk about the potential need for security
    You're assuming most folks were in favour of the Expo. Any Feds showing up could just as easily be cheered by the crowd for showing fiscal prudence.

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    Someone should really be ticked off that the federal government keeps asking for cities and companies to bid or submit proposals for all these major projects and events, (the cancelled Portrait Gallery, Expo 2017, etc. are some that have had a major effect on Edmonton and I'm sure there are many more for other Canadian Cities that I am unaware of) and then cancel or withdraw their requests for RFPs. They expected Canadian cities to dedicate manpower and money preparing bids or proposals for these projects, which is exactly what Edmonton and other interested cities have done with no intention of ever implementing them. I wish I could be so nonchalant about the hopes and dreams of thousands of Canadian citizens and taxpayers. Shame.

  72. #272

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Stephen, Rona et al are trying to compare Expo security to G20 or Olympics security.

    It doesn't wash. It's piffle.

    The security for Olympics is because, with a global TV audience they're a terrorist's dream (Munich).

    Security for G20 is somewhat about protestors (anarchists being of the most concern) and property rights - but mostly required by the presence of the world's 20 most influential decision makers and their entourage - again a terrorist's dream.

    But oil sands protestors? Such as we have already are a pretty tame, gosh you might even say civil bunch. They pull off a stunt here or there - pretty tame - pretty easy to handle with existing resources.

    Heck, give em a stage they can protest on every day, all day if they like. They're not going to (intentionally) hurt anyone. It's bad press.

    In the event of a visiting dignitary for whom there is a perceived risk of threat - then appropriate security measures would be required only for the period of time they are here.

    But surely, Expo or not, we want dignitaries to visit Edmonton and leave having nice things to say?
    You guys can't have it both ways. You indicate that the Expo would be a world class event that will lead to enormous world wide exposure yet at the same time state that security costs would be insignificant. Well if the Expo would be a world class event, then we would have many (hundreds?) foreign dignities coming to our fair city. They would need round the clock security teams to ensure their security.

    Has anyone on this forum in support of an Expo actually been to any of the last three? Didn't think so......

  73. #273
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    I think it can be both due to not all of those promised people showing up over a very broad time frame. It's like if we didn't have rush hours on our roads, our roads could carry a total of same or greater number of vehicles with fewer disruptions.

  74. #274

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    I think you mean it won't be a security problem because: (a) no one will really care about it outside of Edmonton and maybe Saskatchewan so its not a target; (b) there won't be teeming throngs of people coming to a dumb expo that is little more than a shameless infrastructure grab.

  75. #275
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    ^ no, that's not what I wrote nor what I mean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by accountingsucks View Post
    You guys can't have it both ways. You indicate that the Expo would be a world class event that will lead to enormous world wide exposure yet at the same time state that security costs would be insignificant...
    I can have it both ways, and eat my cookie too.

    It's the nature of the event - not the scale that makes it a lower security risk.

    Let me put it this way, oil sands, tar sands, whathaveyou protestors are not terrorists. Act like ten year olds some days, yes; a danger to life and limb, no.
    ... gobsmacked

  77. #277

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    Quote Originally Posted by grish View Post
    ^ no, that's not what I wrote nor what I mean.
    Yeah, I am aware. I was just explaining again - in a way that referenced what you wrote - that people in this thread grossly overestimate the interest other people have in this expo or would have no matter how many terrible videos are created, how much advertising money is wasted, and how vaguely energy related the expo may be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flex Mentallo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grish View Post
    ^ no, that's not what I wrote nor what I mean.
    Yeah, I am aware. I was just explaining again - in a way that referenced what you wrote - that people in this thread grossly overestimate the interest other people have in this expo or would have no matter how many terrible videos are created, how much advertising money is wasted, and how vaguely energy related the expo may be.
    The root issue is why the Feds keep asking for proposals for National Portrait Gallery, Expo 2017, Port Alberta, etc. and then to yank the proposal when Edmonton is the front runner.

    In terms of Expo 2017, why string along Edmonton for well over a year and then to renege.
    The Feds should have made it clear that Edmonton won't be the front runner right from the beginning, and there wouldn't be the misunderstanding or expectation of Expo 2017 in Edmonton.
    The world is full of kings and queens, who blind your eyes then steal your dreams.
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  79. #279

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flex Mentallo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grish View Post
    ^ no, that's not what I wrote nor what I mean.
    Yeah, I am aware. I was just explaining again - in a way that referenced what you wrote - that people in this thread grossly overestimate the interest other people have in this expo or would have no matter how many terrible videos are created, how much advertising money is wasted, and how vaguely energy related the expo may be.
    The root issue is why the Feds keep asking for proposals for National Portrait Gallery, Expo 2017, Port Alberta, etc. and then to yank the proposal when Edmonton is the front runner.

    In terms of Expo 2017, why string along Edmonton for well over a year and then to renege.
    The Feds should have made it clear that Edmonton won't be the front runner right from the beginning, and there wouldn't be the misunderstanding or expectation of Expo 2017 in Edmonton.
    If they had made up their mind at that time... I agree that there are issues about how federal funding comes to this city that goes far beyond this one issue of the expo to deeper problems within this country and the culture of vote-buying that seems to have set in. However, that isn't the only issue here. The other one is that expo here was a very bad idea with the only upside being some infrastructure.

  80. #280

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    Quote Originally Posted by andy8244 View Post
    Any Feds showing up could just as easily be cheered by the crowd for showing fiscal prudence.
    Oh yeah, politicians are always given a standing ovation by sports fans when their attendance is announced.

    I would eat my own a** if that happened.

  81. #281

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flex Mentallo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flex Mentallo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grish View Post
    ^ no, that's not what I wrote nor what I mean.
    Yeah, I am aware. I was just explaining again - in a way that referenced what you wrote - that people in this thread grossly overestimate the interest other people have in this expo or would have no matter how many terrible videos are created, how much advertising money is wasted, and how vaguely energy related the expo may be.
    The root issue is why the Feds keep asking for proposals for National Portrait Gallery, Expo 2017, Port Alberta, etc. and then to yank the proposal when Edmonton is the front runner.

    In terms of Expo 2017, why string along Edmonton for well over a year and then to renege.
    The Feds should have made it clear that Edmonton won't be the front runner right from the beginning, and there wouldn't be the misunderstanding or expectation of Expo 2017 in Edmonton.
    If they had made up their mind at that time... I agree that there are issues about how federal funding comes to this city that goes far beyond this one issue of the expo to deeper problems within this country and the culture of vote-buying that seems to have set in. However, that isn't the only issue here. The other one is that expo here was a very bad idea with the only upside being some infrastructure.
    Had the G20 fiasco never heppened it is my opinion that Expo would have been funded.
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  82. #282

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Had the G20 fiasco never heppened it is my opinion that Expo would have been funded.
    Maybe. Still doesn't make it a good idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by andy8244 View Post
    Any Feds showing up could just as easily be cheered by the crowd for showing fiscal prudence.
    Oh yeah, politicians are always given a standing ovation by sports fans when their attendance is announced.

    I would eat my own a** if that happened.
    The deviant swine Harper or any of his debauched minions being announced the day after tomorrow is the moment of truth.

    If he is cheered after what he did to us, I'll give up on this city, permanently and irrevocably. If he's booed, the citizens will have redeemed themselves.

    I'm not sure just now which way it will go.

    ---And if they all stay away, I suppose it will have been for a good reason. Those pigs are very rational and have great market research.

  84. #284

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    You guys, leave the poor feds alone. Can't you see we just don't have as much money as some of those "have" countries, like Belgium and Kazakhstan?

    But where did the feds get the idea that security would cose $300M? That's insane! That's 0.2% of Kazakhstan's entire GDP per year!

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    I heard a professor from a US University speaking about Irelands situation, and he said that any economist will tell you that the most effective and quickest way to recover from a recession is for the government to run a deficit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham66 View Post
    ... where did the feds get the idea that security would cose $300M? That's insane! That's 0.2% of Kazakhstan's entire GDP per year!
    It would appear, sadly, to be a Harpo-lie:

    Ottawa has continued to claim security costs could have reached into the hundreds of millions.

    But correspondence from earlier this month between local and federal officials obtained by CTV News suggested something different.

    A summary of security costs estimate the total would have been $91 million with $64 million paid by the Expo Corporation, $8 million paid by the city and province, and $10.9 million shelled out by the federal government.

    http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/lo...b=EdmontonHome
    ... gobsmacked

  87. #287

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    From the beginning it has been pretty clear that this decision is a political one, and not a financial one.

  88. #288

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    ^which is always the case when the decision is made by politicians in power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^which is always the case when the decision is made by politicians in power.
    And a waste of millions of dollars of taxpayer money, led by a two-year premise of Edmonton getting Expo 2017.

    Feds could have easily just said NO back in 2007, and this issue would never have taken place.

    Reminds me of the National Portrait Gallery issue.
    The world is full of kings and queens, who blind your eyes then steal your dreams.
    It's heaven and hell!

  90. #290

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    ^The Feds haven't wasted any money, the City of Edmonton has. Before spending the cash, they should have got an assurance up front that if we won for Canada, it would be supported. Seems that was never obtained, and accordingly, we are on the hook for a lot of wasted money that could have instead for example been used to build a recreation center or perhaps renovate a few of the facilities we have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krokwalk View Post
    Although I think this fair could have been a waste of money, it bugs me that most media are framing this as Edmonton's and Mandel's doing when in fact it was the feds that wanted the World's fair (and portrait gallery) and in both cases the feds trash Edmonton's image (and money/time/expertise) to make themselves the heroes in the rest of Canada with their fiscal restraint. Not only this but wait until the last possible second for a decision in both cases that maximize the trashing effect like we're the incompetent ones. This looks like two very transparent cases of dealing in bad faith and the government should actually make legal repairs of the situation as every other citizen and business would have to do in a similar situation.
    100% the truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^The Feds haven't wasted any money, the City of Edmonton has. Before spending the cash, they should have got an assurance up front that if we won for Canada, it would be supported. Seems that was never obtained, and accordingly, we are on the hook for a lot of wasted money that could have instead for example been used to build a recreation center or perhaps renovate a few of the facilities we have.

    The conservative gov't solicited bids from the Cities.

    What, were we supposed to ask "do we count as a city?"


    your comment is pretty weak.

  93. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Before spending the cash, they should have got an assurance up front that if we won for Canada, it would be supported.
    Yes, that's the way your beloved Calgary operates.

    Do it in the public sector too much, though, and you'll rightly be accused of corruption and influence peddling.

    Which as the world knows are the very LEAST of Harper & Co. moral perversions.

  94. #294
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    Abaka your comment doesn't even make sense...can you tone it down a little? It just makes the rest of us look like looney-toons

  95. #295

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    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    The conservative gov't solicited bids from the Cities.

    What, were we supposed to ask "do we count as a city?"


    your comment is pretty weak.
    We should have got in writing before spending millions on it, "do you guarantee the Federal government will support the winning bid"? If the Federal government said "no, we will need to review the bid", then we should have pulled out then. It's not rocket science.

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    And what would that have done? Create a binding legal obligation? Agreements like that between different levels of government aren't legally enforceable; the only remedy at our disposal is the ballot box.

  97. #297
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    As an aside, I also find it interesting that you defend Harper while simultaneously blaming the City of Edmonton for not anticipating his lack of good faith. I mean, that's so twisted it's almost impressive!

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    It's not the first time someone from calgary working in ottawa has balked at edmonton.

  99. #299

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesL View Post
    As an aside, I also find it interesting that you defend Harper while simultaneously blaming the City of Edmonton for not anticipating his lack of good faith. I mean, that's so twisted it's almost impressive!
    I don't know, I mean, you would think after the portrait gallery thing, Edmonton city would be smart enough to realize, being a safe conservative city precludes us from ever getting anything that might not go down well out East, given conflicting demands for goodies out there in more swing seats.

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    We weren't always a safe conservative city. Perhaps it's time to return to our roots.

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