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Thread: Feds MIA On Crucial Expo Meeting

  1. #101

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    The NAIT line was part of a Canada-wide infrastructure spending project, and there was no way that the government could have not funded it when they were spending as much money as they did across the country. I was referring more to specific examples including Expos and Olympic bids - ie. the federal government supported Calgary's expo bid.

  2. #102

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    ^its all about timing. Right now, we are in recession, and the opposition parties are demanding the Federal government stop spending so much. Add in the Quebec winter olympic bid and the impact of that on every other arena project in the country, plus the G8 security spend fiasco and it all makes political sense.

    Give Expo to Edmonton and Deny Quebec Olympic bid = political suicide out East.
    Give Expo to Edmonton and Quebec City bid = demands for arena funding everywhere in country = even more massive deficit = playing into oppositions hands.

    If this bid had been a couple of years ago, it would have been approved.

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^its all about timing. Right now, we are in recession, and the opposition parties are demanding the Federal government stop spending so much. Add in the Quebec winter olympic bid and the impact of that on every other arena project in the country, plus the G8 security spend fiasco and it all makes political sense.

    Give Expo to Edmonton and Deny Quebec Olympic bid = political suicide out East.
    Give Expo to Edmonton and Quebec City bid = demands for arena funding everywhere in country = even more massive deficit = playing into oppositions hands.

    If this bid had been a couple of years ago, it would have been approved.
    The thing is that the federal government wasn't committing to the $700 million at this moment. They decided not to fund a 10 million dollar investment to continue the bid. Approval of this stage of the bid would be extremely apolitical because the amount of funding required now is not substantial. Furthermore, the $700 million would be spent in 2017 - way after money for a Quebec arena would be built. It doesn't make sense.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper View Post
    What has Rona Ambrose done for Edmonton? She was absent with the Portrait Gallery, she showed up for Port Alberta to give a bag of peanuts for a study but a year later Winnipeg received a suitcase of cash from the feds to develop centre port. Linda Duncan is speaking up and doing more politically than Rona Ambrose. Seriously, what has RA done that benefits Edmonton.......................................... .......?
    She is useless as titters on a bull. Seriously though - she is window dressing for Harper...thats it. She best not show her face at too many social functions around town - SHUN is the word. Frankly when I see her I will be yelling not listening to her excuse crap. She really has done **** all for Edmonton and the Capital Region.

  5. #105
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    and, it would be spent only IF we win the bid. Also, this is damning of the government's projection of the state of our economy. They are forcasting now that we will not be in any position to spend for events such as this over the next 6 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grish View Post
    and, it would be spent only IF we win the bid. Also, this is damning of the government's projection of the state of our economy. They are forcasting now that we will not be in any position to spend for events such as this over the next 6 years.
    How can that be - they spent billions to host a week (actually a one day meeting of foreign leaders) G20 only weeks ago. Oh...I forgot that was in Eastern Canada.

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jizzaldo View Post
    You keep telling yourself that.
    I suggest you read the national medias take and learn a little bit about what is happening in Quebec. If really think the Federal government gives two hoots about Calgary / Edmonton rivalry, versus the potential vote loss in Quebec and Eastern Canada if they are seen inconsistent on these two events (Quebec winter olympic bid versus Edmonton expo), you are simply, IMO, politically ignorant.
    I suggest you pull your head out of your *** and open your eyes to the fact that both the federal and provincial governments neglect Edmonton. Maybe then you'll quit defending everything anti-Edmonton. Seriously, go back to Calgary.

  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by mnugent View Post
    The thing is that the federal government wasn't committing to the $700 million at this moment.
    You really think they could then say no if we won it? How would that go down in the internaitonal community - "yes we support your bid", then "no, we change our mind" after winning?. This was always all or nothing, and its same on the Quebec City winter olympic bid (which Quebec City may not win as well).

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mnugent View Post
    The thing is that the federal government wasn't committing to the $700 million at this moment.
    You really think they could then say no if we won it? How would that go down in the internaitonal community - "yes we support your bid", then "no, we change our mind" after winning?. This was always all or nothing, and its same on the Quebec City winter olympic bid (which Quebec City may not win as well).
    But will still get federal support none the less

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by jizzaldo View Post
    I suggest you pull your head out of your *** and open your eyes to the fact that both the federal and provincial governments neglect Edmonton.
    Where did I write otherwise? Of course they ignore us , they ignore all of Alberta because we are a safe conservative province (although we do get some funding for things, like everyone does). Your imagination that it would have been different if Calgary had been the bidder, that this is a grand anti-Edmonton conspiracy, is so fanciful as to almost be childish, if anything, it would have been even more politically important for the bid to be denied if Calgary had been the bidder given the optics out East.
    Last edited by moahunter; 22-11-2010 at 08:38 PM.

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    Default Marketing Canada

    When Canada decided to host the G8/G20 the cost was justified as below:OTTAWA — The federal Conservative government Tuesday angrily defended some spending decisions for the back-to-back summits of world leaders Canada is hosting at the end of the June, arguing the money is being wisely used to promote Canada as a tourist and investment destination

    Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Tor...#ixzz164N8ajx6

    Of course the economy was in worse shape then, however it did allow Harper to have a private manmade lake to entertain the leaders at. An event for the public on Canada's 150th birthday, showcase Canada to the world, promote energy solutions. help the U of A with the south campus, sorry but it's not exclusive enough.
    Edmonton - Vancouver - Ottawa

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    The feds made this decision a while ago and have been sitting on it until a big news day in Edmonton as to reduce its reportability. Cookiegate and Raj Sherman hogged the headlines today; Expo was story #2.

  13. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by expatinvancouver View Post
    When Canada decided to host the G8/G20 the cost was justified as below:OTTAWA — The federal Conservative government Tuesday angrily defended some spending decisions for the back-to-back summits of world leaders Canada is hosting at the end of the June, arguing the money is being wisely used to promote Canada as a tourist and investment destination

    Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/Tor...#ixzz164N8ajx6

    Of course the economy was in worse shape then, however it did allow Harper to have a private manmade lake to entertain the leaders at. An event for the public on Canada's 150th birthday, showcase Canada to the world, promote energy solutions. help the U of A with the south campus, sorry but it's Edmonton
    Fixed

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    Now these talking notes from the PMO are reported on CBC

    http://www.cbc.ca/politics/insidepol...-edmonton.html

    but we did not WIN the right to host 2015 University games...so why bother to talk about it...
    Last edited by EdmTrekker; 22-11-2010 at 09:07 PM.

  15. #115

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    Some one should let QC know that they will not get federal support for their Olympic bid. I'm sure that will go over well.

  16. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by BalancedOP View Post
    Some one should let QC know that they will not get federal support for their Olympic bid. I'm sure that will go over well.
    Why, I wouldn't be surprised if they get it anyways. This IS Quebec after all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BalancedOP View Post
    Some one should let QC know that they will not get federal support for their Olympic bid. I'm sure that will go over well.
    Ah but we all know the economy will turn around just in time for the Quebec City Olymipc bid. Of course the possible loss of 12 conservative MP's from Quebec must not be allowed, it's not in the economic interests of the Conservatives, oops I mean Canada.
    Edmonton - Vancouver - Ottawa

  18. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by andy8244 View Post
    "It seems the fiscal responsibility of the federal government only applies when it comes to Western Canada," said Mandel.
    Yeah, 'cause Vancouver didn't just have an Olympics? - silly little chap.
    That statement has some truth; Harper said no to bailing out the Olympic Village about a year before the games. It will be interesting to see what shakes out re: the Quebec City arena funding.
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

  19. #119

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    ^the national media is saying that Qubec's bid is dead, as I posted earlier, this is why Edmonton expo bid is dead.

    The really stupid thing though, is why did Edmonton waste $20 million (if that is the number), without first getting the buy in of the Federal government?

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post

    The really stupid thing though, is why did Edmonton waste $20 million (if that is the number), without first getting the buy in of the Federal government?
    entitlement/arrogance/naivety ? - take your pick.

  21. #121

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    I sent an email to my MP (the honorably useless Peter Goldring), Rona Ambrose, and the office of the PM, regrettably informing them that they've lost a supporter in their (dwindling?) base of power.

    It likely means nothing to them, but as a young voter I know it matters as I'm a demographic they're desperate to attract, and have influence over many other young voters that are more apathetic and just vote for who I recommend.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  22. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^the national media is saying that Qubec's bid is dead, as I posted earlier, this is why Edmonton expo bid is dead.

    The really stupid thing though, is why did Edmonton waste $20 million (if that is the number), without first getting the buy in of the Federal government?
    Maybe because the Federal gov't asked Canadian cities to bid on the event - you would think that the Feds would support a project that they asked us to bid on?

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    Feds are in danger of losing the chances with majority seats in next election for killing Edmonton's bid for world expo 2017.
    Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^the national media is saying that Qubec's bid is dead, as I posted earlier, this is why Edmonton expo bid is dead.

    The really stupid thing though, is why did Edmonton waste $20 million (if that is the number), without first getting the buy in of the Federal government?
    The federal government said that they would support Edmonton in the Universiade, why would they not for the EXPO. They couldnt wait? and it was reasonable to expect the feds would support. Not to mention, the feds asked cities to bid...

  25. #125

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    The negative reaction from Edmonton Journal posters is quite something:

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/....html#comments

    I never thought it would ever get this bad, given how hard our mayor has worked on this project. Astonishing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^the national media is saying that Qubec's bid is dead, as I posted earlier, this is why Edmonton expo bid is dead.

    The really stupid thing though, is why did Edmonton waste $20 million (if that is the number), without first getting the buy in of the Federal government?
    The federal government said that they would support Edmonton in the Universiade, why would they not for the EXPO. They couldnt wait? and it was reasonable to expect the feds would support. Not to mention, the feds asked cities to bid...
    Did the city already invest $20M? I thought most of that was down the road sometime. I hope so. It would sure help with some of our budget pressures.

    I didn't want to be the wet blanket, but Expo wasn't a priority for me. $2.25 Billion is a ton of money that could go a long way toward my own personal priorities. In fact all the way, and then some.

    That said, I appreciate the efforts of those who tried to make it happen.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  27. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^the national media is saying that Qubec's bid is dead, as I posted earlier, this is why Edmonton expo bid is dead.

    The really stupid thing though, is why did Edmonton waste $20 million (if that is the number), without first getting the buy in of the Federal government?
    Firstly, I'm more focused on the arena than an Olympic bid, yes the arena would be needed for a bid but I believe Bettman has given some form of lip service to rebooting the Quebec Nordiques. A QC arena is as much about the NHL as the Olympics.

    I'll believe Federal funding for a Quebec City arena is dead when the words leave Harper's mouth, not before. That said, 10 years after Vancouver is waaaaay too soon to award Canada another games. Right after Vancouver won their bid, I was fond of saying both TO and Quebec City could kiss goodbye their Olympic dreams for another 20-or-so years.
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

  28. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by RTA View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flex Mentallo View Post
    Hahaha. Blaming Ambrose. Hi-larious. Was it $20 million they spent on that? Hmmm...tough call as to whether that was worth it to see Mandel that upset.
    Yeah, the lost dollars spent and the feds totally snubbing Edmonton and Alberta and missing out on a huge economic and recognition opportunity is totally worth your personal dislike of a single person.

    How old are you again?
    (a) hardly a huge economic opportunity to get some federal money to spread between a couple of good ideas and some exceptionally dumb ones. I actually think that with the likely cost overruns and ultimate financial failure of the expo, we may have ended up saving money. (b) What recognition? I'm sorry, but these expos are not the "world-class" events the people pushing for this pretend they are. (c) I didn't say it was worth it. I said its a tough call. And I should add that there a few other people whose bitterness over this I will - somewhat shamefully - enjoy. And its not that I dislike Mandel. I just dislike things he's said and done, and what he pretends to be. He could be a very nice person aside from those things.

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    The funny part is Canada spent 28 million dollars on their Shanghai pavillion. I will be curious how much they are going to spend on their pavillion in Leige?

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    Still a Conservative?

    No, don't answer that.

    In your heart, you know you are.

  31. #131
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    Some context, perhaps:

    In November 2008, the government unexpectedly cancelled plans to build a national portrait gallery after a competition in which the only two proposals that met all requirements came from Edmonton companies.

    Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/feder...#ixzz164sTkzdS

    The security costs?

    The Quebec City arena request?

    Seriously, when the cost to the taxpayer was $0, where were our MP's?

    And now, with no reasonable answer to the Portrait Gallery question, where were our MP's now?

    Platitudes (Edmonton 2015? Puleeese) suck

    (Life-long Tory supporter, who may not vote Tory ever-ever again, and that sucks)
    ... gobsmacked

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    (Life-long Tory supporter, who may not vote Tory ever-ever again, and that sucks)
    Go ahead. Free yourself. It's not sucky.

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    For the record, this is what the ------- in the PMO wants you to hear, courtesy CBC:

    "From: Alerte-Info-Alert <[email protected]>
    To: Alerte-Info-Alert <[email protected]>
    Sent: Mon Nov 22 14:14:08 2010
    Subject: Next Phase of Canada's Economic Action Plan -- Returning to Balanced Budgets

    Next Phase of Canada's Economic Action Plan -- Returning to Balanced Budgets

    Today, as part of our Government's efforts to return to a balanced budget, Minister Moore informed the Bid committee that the federal government would not financially support a bid for Expo 2017.


    • A key element of the next phase of Canada's Economic Action Plan will be to return to balanced budgets.
    • As the Minister of Finance emphasized last Friday, our Government will not make significant new government spending commitments.
    • This requires difficult decisions to be made.
    • One of those decisions is not to proceed with funding a bid for to host Expo 2017.
    • Supporting an Expo bid would require the federal government to spend over $1 billion once we take into account the full cost of security and other federal obligations to host an event of this size.
    • In this context, we must show respect for taxpayers and not proceed with a bid to host Expo 2017.
    • It is important to note that our Government was proud to support Edmonton's bid to host the 2015 World University Games."
    There it is.

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    Now that I have simmered down somewhat....our Expo bid started in 2007, in the midst of our boom times. It's now 2010 and the world is still trying to recover from a major recession. The recession was caused by America's failure to regulate poor banking policies. Therefore I blame George W Bush for killing Expo!
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  35. #135
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    Edmonton is at a tipping point - either it's going to make it or it won't.

    But if it's going to make it, Edmonton NEEDS some federal support. Cities such as Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, and Montreal just didn't make it on their own. They each had significant Federal support.

    Federal rejection on a couple of fronts - the National Portrait Gallery, Expo 2017 - seems at bit too strange. It seems a bit too obvious that when Edmonton wants federal support, there's nothing.

    I know I can't speak for others, but I will not be voting PC in the upcoming election.
    I've voted for PC several, several times.

    But the PC government is sooo damn useless for Edmonton.
    I live in Edmonton, I work in Edmonton, I pay taxes in Edmonton.

    I'm looking for Federal political support for Edmonton.

    And I'm looking for that party that will help bring Edmonton up up up.

    The people are here, the talent is here.

    SO WHY IS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT STIFFING EDMONTON???
    I'm so p^&&*d
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  36. #136

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    I've had a funny disconnected feeling about our federal government for several years now.

    Even after visiting Ottawa for the first time in my life earlier this year, I just haven't felt like our leaders in the east see me as a 'Canadian'.

    This simply reassures my gut instincts.

    The Canada I know and love ends east of Toronto and picks up again somewhere west of Montreal.

    Ottawa might as well be a 30 mile wide smoking hole in the earth, because that's how much I care for my political representation there today.

    Always voted PC, but not this coming election if Steven Harper is rerunning...

  37. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by blainehamilton View Post
    I've had a funny disconnected feeling about our federal government for several years now.

    Even after visiting Ottawa for the first time in my life earlier this year, I just haven't felt like our leaders in the east see me as a 'Canadian'.

    This simply reassures my gut instincts.

    The Canada I know and love ends east of Toronto and picks up again somewhere west of Montreal.

    Ottawa might as well be a 30 mile wide smoking hole in the earth, because that's how much I care for my political representation there today.

    Always voted PC, but not this coming election if Steven Harper is rerunning...

    we all need to recognize that had it been Calgary in the running, the government would have supported their bid.

    So much for the days when we had Anne Mclellan!!

  38. #138

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    ^ they would not have supported it, and where do you get off makign gross statements like that.

    The conservatives are using expo as a political move. Look at what we are doing look at what we are saying no to...

    Showcasing one of the worlds fastest growing areas makes sence.. Expo in Western Canada makes sence. Harper knows that...

    This is politics pure and simple.. it's not about Edmonton.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    ^ they would not have supported it, and where do you get off makign gross statements like that.

    The conservatives are using expo as a political move. Look at what we are doing look at what we are saying no to...

    Showcasing one of the worlds fastest growing areas makes sence.. Expo in Western Canada makes sence. Harper knows that...

    This is politics pure and simple.. it's not about Edmonton.
    And certainly not about other failed attempts - National Portrait Gallery, Port Alberta, ...
    The world is full of kings and queens, who blind your eyes then steal your dreams.
    It's heaven and hell!

  40. #140

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    Those I wont speak too...

    But its very clear that The Cons are using Expo as a turning point and a way of getting out the Stadium funding disaster they are currently in. The is mostley about political showmanship. I miss Anne.

    • A key element of the next phase of Canada's Economic Action Plan will be to return to balanced budgets.
    • As the Minister of Finance emphasized last Friday, our Government will not make significant new government spending commitments.
    • This requires difficult decisions to be made.
    • One of those decisions is not to proceed with funding a bid for to host Expo 2017.
    • Supporting an Expo bid would require the federal government to spend over $1 billion once we take into account the full cost of security and other federal obligations to host an event of this size.
    • In this context, we must show respect for taxpayers and not proceed with a bid to host Expo 2017.
    • It is important to note that our Government was proud to support Edmonton's bid to host the 2015 World University Games."
    Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 23-11-2010 at 09:55 AM.
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    As sad as this is, we have no one to blame but the idiotic voters of this city. Seriously, people chose Laurie Hawn over Anne McLellan? You people get what you deserve.

  42. #142

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    Anne McLellan would have useless in a conservative run gov't however.

    Not that Laurie soes much, but thanks for trying Laurie!
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Anne McLellan would have useless in a conservative run gov't however.

    Not that Laurie soes much, but thanks for trying Laurie!
    Not true. The Conservatives would have to do more for Edmonton if there were more competitive seats in the region. Voting in a regressive novice politician at the expense of someone like Anne sends the message that Edmonton voters are sheep.

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    I personally believe that Anne would have gotten it done for us.

    This isn't the first time the Conservatives have snubbed Edmonton. They've lost my vote next time around, that's for sure.

  45. #145

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    This is outrageous! I urge everyone to email members of parliament, or the Prime Minister directly ([email protected]).
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

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    Call your MP and the PMs office? Why bother.

    Conservatives are conservatives. You don't cry over spilled milk -- you clean it up.

    Or will your western grumpism herd you into voting for them yet again?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    I sent an email to my MP (the honorably useless Peter Goldring), Rona Ambrose, and the office of the PM, regrettably informing them that they've lost a supporter in their (dwindling?) base of power.

    It likely means nothing to them, but as a young voter I know it matters as I'm a demographic they're desperate to attract, and have influence over many other young voters that are more apathetic and just vote for who I recommend.
    FYI
    I also sent a rather scathing email to Rona, the equally useless Laurie Hawn (my MP) and the "Pie Wagon" (thanks Air Farce!) himself Stephen Harper informing them my vote too will be cast elsewhere. I suspect they figure Alberta is "safe" in regards to votes and perhaps if enough Albertans stand up and let their voices be heard these politicians would realize that as members of a MINORITY government no riding is safe.

    The Tories are constantly seeking ways to increase there power base in order to form a majoritiy in the next federal election maybe if they lost a couple of seats in Alberta it would open their eyes.

    This isn't only a punch in the face for Edmonton, Alberta and Canada loses out as well. But considering how this government runs its policies i'm not totally suprised. It's under Harpers leadership that Canada lost its bid for a UN Security Council seat (first time EVER) The rest of the world community obviously thinks the Tories in Ottawa are unworthy perhaps it's time for Canadians to start thinking this federal government is provincial and petty being too busy focusing on trying to become a majority government in areas it is weak. ie Quebec.

    The World Community gave Harper&Co the finger at the UN it's time we did likewise at the polling stations.

  48. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by andy8244 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post

    The really stupid thing though, is why did Edmonton waste $20 million (if that is the number), without first getting the buy in of the Federal government?
    entitlement/arrogance/naivety ? - take your pick.
    I would say it was more ambition. Plus they did tell the cities to make a bid. Thats being a tease. Why tell us to bid if they had no intention of support?

    Mandel: “When it comes to Edmonton’s growth and ambition, our federal government simply isn’t interested.”
    This is the reason more than anything. The 'world class' Canadian cities are Van, Calgary, Toronto, Montreal. This will never change. This is what the feds want.

    All is not lost tho. Im not too sad about not getting the Expo. Im worried however that other projects (ie: LRT) are going to slow to a hault because of this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    All is not lost tho. Im not too sad about not getting the Expo. Im worried however that other projects (ie: LRT) are going to slow to a hault because of this.

    On those, there are two thoughts of opinion:

    (1) Without federal funding, they will wither. And HarperCorp will give no funding.

    (2) HarperCorp will fund one station of the NE extension, and do it with great fanfare. After that the project will wither without federal funding.

    The serious point, though, is not that HarperCorp are perverts, but that they are fully rational perverts. I'm betting the numbers their careful research gives them show they will GAIN votes here over the decision not to support Expo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jizzaldo View Post
    You keep telling yourself that.
    I suggest you read the national medias take and learn a little bit about what is happening in Quebec. If really think the Federal government gives two hoots about Calgary / Edmonton rivalry, versus the potential vote loss in Quebec and Eastern Canada if they are seen inconsistent on these two events (Quebec winter olympic bid versus Edmonton expo), you are simply, IMO, politically ignorant.

    If you think that's a reason for an Edmontonian to vote for HarperCorp, you are simply, IMO, politically deluded.

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    The Globe and Mail's article on the Expo snub by the Cons. Nice to know readers across the country agree that Harper, Rona and gang are useless hypocrites:

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1809570/

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    The Globe and Mail's article on the Expo snub by the Cons. Nice to know readers across the country agree that Harper, Rona and gang are useless hypocrites:

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1809570/
    Read most of the comments and while it will not change anything it's nice to know that most of the replies are as disgusted as we are.

    Maybe Harper knows he will not be around as PM in 2017 so no funding as there will be no photo op for him .........
























    i

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    Another thing about this that really pisses me off, and there are many. The province was going to pick up 65% with the feds picking up 25% (the Metro).
    Rona Ambrose commented today, and said the main reason is the overruns associated with security as was the case at the G8. Is she that f***ing dumb? Because making a direct comparison with the G8/20 is simply idiotic. Because when I think of Expo, I think of tear-gas, mobs of people throwing stones and burning vehicles.
    I guess the money saved on not hosting the edmonton expo can go towards a solid gold pavillion in Liege.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darrellinyvr View Post
    Maybe Harper knows he will not be around as PM in 2017 so no funding as there will be no photo op for him .........
    I wish I could share your optimism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abaka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by darrellinyvr View Post
    Maybe Harper knows he will not be around as PM in 2017 so no funding as there will be no photo op for him .........
    I wish I could share your optimism.
    Why not settle for 2012?

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    http://www.630ched.com/Channels/Reg/...spx?ID=1316014
    Ambrose to reach out to Mandel 10:48am
    Click here to email Reid Wilkins
    11/23/2010

    Rona Ambrose hopes there's no hard feelings from Mayor Stephen Mandel after the feds refused to support our city's Expo bid.

    Mandel pointed the finger at the Edmonton-Spruce Grove MP after finding out there would be no help from Ottawa.

    "We know the mayor is disappointed," says Ambrose, "I have tried to reach him and will continue to try to reach him. I hope he understands that this decision was made with no reflection on the city of Edmonton."

    Ambrose says the cost of funding Expo 2017 would have exceeded $1 billion. She says the federal government has funded many other projects and events in Edmonton, including the Anthony Henday, the Grey Cup game, and the Alberta Art Gallery. (jrw)
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    It's not about Mandel or Ambrose or soothing talk.

    It's about lost infrastructure investment. It's about lost international exposure. It's about the triumph of hickism.
    It's about lost infrastructure investment. It's about lost international exposure. It's about the triumph of hickism.
    It's about lost infrastructure investment. It's about lost international exposure. It's about the triumph of hickism.

    And it's about CPC perverts leading the way.
    Last edited by abaka; 23-11-2010 at 01:34 PM.

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    this is going to be interesting
    Still waiting for the Arlington site to be reborn .......

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    Vancouver's 1986 expo bid was approved in approximately 1981, and around 1982 there was a big issue about funding it.

    There was a federal Liberal government led by the evil f. Trudeau himself, one that had no seats west of Winnipeg and no chance of getting any, squaring off against a far-right provincial Social Credit goverment. There was a deep recession, about as bad or worse than this one. There were deficits galore. There was no political upside to funding Expo whatever, and in fact the moahunters of that day were all against the boondoggle.

    But Trudeau, s. as he was, was a Canadian.

    They funded expo.

    No-one ever regretted it. Look at Vancouver now. Do you know what it was in 1980? A dump. An absolute stagnant quagmire. Sllepy and dusty and deadly dull.

    They funded it. They gave Vancouver the opportunity to improve and more importantly publicize itself.

    The place prosperred.

    Trudeau the evil b. did it.

    And Harper -- gentle caring nice folksy Harper, th opposite of a s. and a f. and a b. -- did not.

    Vote CPC!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper View Post
    Rona Ambrose commented today, and said the main reason is the overruns associated with security as was the case at the G8. Is she that f***ing dumb? Because making a direct comparison with the G8/20 is simply idiotic. Because when I think of Expo, I think of tear-gas, mobs of people throwing stones and burning vehicles.
    Really. An expo focusing on energy in the heart of tar-sand country and you don't see there being a problem with security? -The only national/international media coverage this Expo would have got would have been protesters being dragged away by riot cops.

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    More from Rona:
    EDMONTON — Public Works Minister Rona Ambrose defended herself Tuesday against Mayor Stephen Mandel’s charge that it’s her fault the federal government didn’t support Edmonton’s Expo 2017 bid.
    “It’s clear from all of us around cabinet that we need to focus on cutting our deficit. This was a very difficult decision to make, especially as I’m an Edmontonian myself,” the Edmonton-Spruce Grove MP said.
    “All of us pushed this forward, but I have a responsibility to the taxpayers of Edmonton and the taxpayers of the country.”
    The federal portion of the $2.3-billion event would have been about $700 million without taking into account the cost of security, which could have hit $1 billion by itself if there was a threat to the site or the oilsands, she said.
    “Even at a low-risk threat, securing for this 90-day event would have cost $100 million, and that didn’t include the RCMP and city police,” she said.
    “The infrastructure funding would have been great for Edmonton; I’m not going to deny that. The operational cost would have been taken on by the city and the province, but we would be responsible for security.”
    Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Ambro...#ixzz168ZGIssw
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    More from Rona:
    EDMONTON — Public Works Minister Rona Ambrose defended herself Tuesday against Mayor Stephen Mandel’s charge that it’s her fault the federal government didn’t support Edmonton’s Expo 2017 bid.
    “It’s clear from all of us around cabinet that we need to focus on cutting our deficit. This was a very difficult decision to make, especially as I’m an Edmontonian myself,” the Edmonton-Spruce Grove MP said.
    “All of us pushed this forward, but I have a responsibility to the taxpayers of Edmonton and the taxpayers of the country.”
    The federal portion of the $2.3-billion event would have been about $700 million without taking into account the cost of security, which could have hit $1 billion by itself if there was a threat to the site or the oilsands, she said.
    “Even at a low-risk threat, securing for this 90-day event would have cost $100 million, and that didn’t include the RCMP and city police,” she said.
    “The infrastructure funding would have been great for Edmonton; I’m not going to deny that. The operational cost would have been taken on by the city and the province, but we would be responsible for security.”
    Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Ambro...#ixzz168ZGIssw
    ...so give us the infrastructure funding without the event!

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    I think Edmonton has to contine to be its own advocate. The lesson here is that Edmonton will have to continue to set it's own vision and goals, like they did for Expo. Part of Alberta's success has been the result of having to compete against Ontario and Quebec. No, things don't come easy for Edmonton, but look how far we have come in the past decade. While the lost Expo bid is a setback, we have to continue to show the resolve that got us this far.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    ^Yes, and also strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers city.

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    wonder if now is a good time to press the feds on port alberta and getting a duty-free cargo handling facility. I mean, lets try to get the most out of this fiasco.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ander View Post
    ...so give us the infrastructure funding without the event!
    No kidding. It won't make us happy, but it's still necessary.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    let's see here:

    - no security worries
    - no international boycott due to oilsands
    - no money for sports or event facilities
    - no nationwide backlash for a $1 Billion tab

    Edmonton gets:

    - W/SELRT
    - New Walterdale Bridge / Gateway alignment
    - Official 150th Birthday Celebration in Churchill Square
    - A token of appreciation for being the sacrificial lamb

    makes sense to me.

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    Edmonton gets:

    - W/SELRT
    - New Walterdale Bridge / Gateway alignment
    - Official 150th Birthday Celebration in Churchill Square
    - A token of appreciation for being the sacrificial lamb
    Must be nice to see the future so clearly, even if it's all in your head.

    HarperCorp propaganda tool.

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    Expecting Harper to pony up 1/3rd of the W/SELRT costs as per the city's requests feels more and more like a fridge too far.

  70. #170

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I think Edmonton has to contine to be its own advocate. The lesson here is that Edmonton will have to continue to set it's own vision and goals, like they did for Expo. Part of Alberta's success has been the result of having to compete against Ontario and Quebec. No, things don't come easy for Edmonton, but look how far we have come in the past decade. While the lost Expo bid is a setback, we have to continue to show the resolve that got us this far.

    Political gamesmanship like this makes it tough to stay optimistic about what you picture Edmonton potentially becoming.

    Right now it feels like learning to swim while big brother is standing on your head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abaka View Post
    Vancouver's 1986 expo bid was approved in approximately 1981, and around 1982 there was a big issue about funding it.

    There was a federal Liberal government led by the evil f. Trudeau himself, one that had no seats west of Winnipeg and no chance of getting any, squaring off against a far-right provincial Social Credit goverment. There was a deep recession, about as bad or worse than this one. There were deficits galore. There was no political upside to funding Expo whatever, and in fact the moahunters of that day were all against the boondoggle.

    But Trudeau, s. as he was, was a Canadian.

    They funded expo.

    No-one ever regretted it. Look at Vancouver now. Do you know what it was in 1980? A dump. An absolute stagnant quagmire. Sllepy and dusty and deadly dull.

    They funded it. They gave Vancouver the opportunity to improve and more importantly publicize itself.

    The place prosperred.

    Trudeau the evil b. did it.

    And Harper -- gentle caring nice folksy Harper, th opposite of a s. and a f. and a b. -- did not.

    Vote CPC!
    bingo bingo
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    Quote Originally Posted by abaka View Post
    Edmonton gets:

    - W/SELRT
    - New Walterdale Bridge / Gateway alignment
    - Official 150th Birthday Celebration in Churchill Square
    - A token of appreciation for being the sacrificial lamb
    Must be nice to see the future so clearly, even if it's all in your head.

    HarperCorp propaganda tool.
    Sorry, that was my wishlist. Did you have something to say?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    More from Rona:
    EDMONTON — Public Works Minister Rona Ambrose defended herself Tuesday against Mayor Stephen Mandel’s charge that it’s her fault the federal government didn’t support Edmonton’s Expo 2017 bid.
    “It’s clear from all of us around cabinet that we need to focus on cutting our deficit. This was a very difficult decision to make, especially as I’m an Edmontonian myself,” the Edmonton-Spruce Grove MP said.
    “All of us pushed this forward, but I have a responsibility to the taxpayers of Edmonton and the taxpayers of the country.”
    The federal portion of the $2.3-billion event would have been about $700 million without taking into account the cost of security, which could have hit $1 billion by itself if there was a threat to the site or the oilsands, she said.
    “Even at a low-risk threat, securing for this 90-day event would have cost $100 million, and that didn’t include the RCMP and city police,” she said.
    “The infrastructure funding would have been great for Edmonton; I’m not going to deny that. The operational cost would have been taken on by the city and the province, but we would be responsible for security.”
    Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Ambro...#ixzz168ZGIssw
    Dear Rona,

    Does that mean that you guys won't be funding the Pan-Am games after all?

    Signed,

    Everyone

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    The funniest thing about this whole farce is watching myopic dyed-in-the-wool Conservatives whining about Conservatives being conservative.

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    Andy, interlopers who don't give a **** about anything except appearing witty make deadly boring comments.
    Last edited by abaka; 23-11-2010 at 03:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andy8244 View Post
    The funniest thing about this whole farce is watching myopic dyed-in-the-wool Conservatives whining about Conservatives being conservative.
    It's so very easy to be against everything... try standing up FOR something!
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by andy8244 View Post
    The funniest thing about this whole farce is watching myopic dyed-in-the-wool Conservatives whining about Conservatives being conservative.
    It's so very easy to be against everything... try standing up FOR something!
    Is he capable of such an act?
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy8244 View Post
    The funniest thing about this whole farce is watching myopic dyed-in-the-wool Conservatives whining about Conservatives being conservative.
    Kinda how it's also hilarious to see people are so close minded to side with a politcal wing/agenda regardless of polarity? Rather than pick and choose valid points from all sides?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ander View Post
    Sorry, that was my wishlist. Did you have something to say?
    HarperCorp doesn't give a fig for your wish list. They make their own calculations.

    That's all I wanted to say.

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    We lost more than infrastructure money.

    We lost a chance to promote ourselves internationally.

    Yes, there always were risks to hosting an Expo.

    In the end Edmonton might have failed -- or succeeded. But the government too many of you voted for thinks you are world-class hicks incapabable of being given present financial credit for future success, to be repaid in taxation revenue.

    Are you?

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    The theme of Edmonton EXPO 2017 would have been “Energy and Our Planet”.

    Not having EXPO 2017 will result in huge savings in non-renewable energy expenditure and will be good for our part of the planet.

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    ^there is more to energy than saving it.

    Otherwise you could just turn off the lights and curl up under the snow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abaka View Post
    We lost more than infrastructure money.

    We lost a chance to promote ourselves internationally.

    Yes, there always were risks to hosting an Expo.

    In the end Edmonton might have failed -- or succeeded. But the government too many of you voted for thinks you are world-class hicks incapabable of being given present financial credit for future success, to be repaid in taxation revenue.

    Are you?
    ...That bit's rhetorical I assume?

  84. #184

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper View Post
    Interesting.

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    its gone... whats interesting?

    Nevermind... found it...
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    online polls aren't worth the time and energy even to look.

    Whichever side is feeling motivated just fakes them up.

  88. #188

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    Quote Originally Posted by abaka View Post
    online polls aren't worth the time and energy even to look.

    Whichever side is feeling motivated just fakes them up.
    Perhaps, but that's easy to write when you don't like what the poll says. Maybe this decision will actually, on a net basis, be a vote winner for the Feds? Like it or not, I don't think Expo ever captured the publics imagination, it just isn't meaningful to most people today, and the lack of media coverage of Expos around the world reflects that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by abaka View Post
    online polls aren't worth the time and energy even to look.

    Whichever side is feeling motivated just fakes them up.
    Perhaps, but that's easy to write when you don't like what the poll says. Maybe this decision will actually, on a net basis, be a vote winner for the Feds? Like it or not, I don't think Expo ever captured the publics imagination, it just isn't meaningful to most people today, and the lack of media coverage of Expos around the world reflects that.
    bingo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by abaka View Post
    online polls aren't worth the time and energy even to look.

    Whichever side is feeling motivated just fakes them up.
    Perhaps, but that's easy to write when you don't like what the poll says. Maybe this decision will actually, on a net basis, be a vote winner for the Feds? Like it or not, I don't think Expo ever captured the publics imagination, it just isn't meaningful to most people today, and the lack of media coverage of Expos around the world reflects that.
    Well said!

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    Quote Originally Posted by andy8244 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by abaka View Post
    online polls aren't worth the time and energy even to look.

    Whichever side is feeling motivated just fakes them up.
    Perhaps, but that's easy to write when you don't like what the poll says. Maybe this decision will actually, on a net basis, be a vote winner for the Feds? Like it or not, I don't think Expo ever captured the publics imagination, it just isn't meaningful to most people today, and the lack of media coverage of Expos around the world reflects that.
    bingo.
    Yep. Its one of my chief complaints about the proponents arguments for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Perhaps, but that's easy to write when you don't like what the poll says. Maybe this decision will actually, on a net basis, be a vote winner for the Feds? Like it or not, I don't think Expo ever captured the publics imagination, it just isn't meaningful to most people today, and the lack of media coverage of Expos around the world reflects that.

    There is some truth to this statement. I will politely disagree about the relevance of an Expo as they are changing, but I can echo the comment about it not capturing enough of the public's imagination - yet.

    The thing missed here is what I believe to be the real reason. While my criticisms of the proposal are well documented in the threads, the anger shown by Mandel and company is that the Feds didn't come to the table when the Province and the city were on board to really fund a FINAL proposal. They could work out the kinks. They could seriously judge national acceptance. They could seriously look at the site. The international exposure for the small bid costs would have been significant, both for the Province and the nation. Edmonton would be forced to look at all of its benefits and its warts. That 20 million would have forced many conversations, no security forces required.

    The Feds could still back out later, or the bid could be looked at as truly unworkable at that time. It wouldn't take long for many things to be ironed out.

    That, in my mind, is the real answer to the vitriol from Mandel.
    President and CEO - Airshow.

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    Calgary Mayor Naheed Nenshi and Edmonton Mayor Stephen Mandel will be on Alberta Primetime tonight (7 and 11 pm on Access TV).

    Hopefully Mandel is still fuming about the Expo snub. That would make for an entertaining show.

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    Things that make you say hmmmm.
    Feds asked Cities to put a bid forward....
    Rona said security costs could cost upwards of a billion dollars...
    The research showed security costs for the event to be 12 million...
    The federal government commitment would be 10 million in the next 4 years, with the bulk coming in the 2 years prior and during..
    Harper was the first to say Canada is in the best position in world to best survive the economic crisis, and is the least affected, but cannot afford to support an expo bid yet small a country in europe, Belgium, and ...... Kazakhstan are proceeding with bids with full government support (perhaps they see some benefit to hosting an expo)....
    The feds knew a week before they announced it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Rona Ambrose's hair
    Last edited by Jasper; 23-11-2010 at 07:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper View Post
    Things that make you say hmmmm.
    Feds asked Cities to put a bid forward....
    Rona said security costs could cost upwards of a billion dollars...
    The research showed security costs for the event to be 12 million...
    The federal government commitment would be 10 million in the next 4 years, with the bulk coming in the 2 years prior and during..
    Harper was the first to say Canada is in the best position in world to best survive the economic crisis, and is the least affected, but cannot afford to support an expo bid yet small a country in europe, Belgium, and ...... Kazakhstan are proceeding with bids with full government support (perhaps they see some benefit to hosting an expo)....
    The feds knew a week before they announced it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Rona Ambrose's hair

    ...Thanks Mr. Harper!

    Last edited by andy8244; 23-11-2010 at 07:54 PM.

  96. #196
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    only way to send them a message is they has to pick one

    1) support edmonton's bid for 2017, or

    2) lose big portion of support in next federal election which will deny harper's dream of getting majority government.
    Last edited by jagators63; 23-11-2010 at 08:00 PM.
    Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

  97. #197
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    I got an email back from Rona today citing understanding Edmontons disappointment yadda yadda yadda..... Hopefully Laurie Hawn and the PM will respond as well.

    Ottawa asked the city to bid then yanked the rug out from under it.
    The Tories seem to forget that Edmonton has traditionally been until late a Liberal stronghold in federal politics. If they have p****d off enough voters to send the local/Alberta Tory MP's packing there goes any chance of a majority government (Possible gains in Quebec or not)

  98. #198
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    I did e-mail rona but heard nothing
    Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

  99. #199
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    Rona and Company: The No-Expo People
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  100. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasper View Post
    Things that make you say hmmmm.
    Feds asked Cities to put a bid forward....
    Rona said security costs could cost upwards of a billion dollars...
    The research showed security costs for the event to be 12 million...
    The federal government commitment would be 10 million in the next 4 years, with the bulk coming in the 2 years prior and during..
    Harper was the first to say Canada is in the best position in world to best survive the economic crisis, and is the least affected, but cannot afford to support an expo bid yet small a country in europe, Belgium, and ...... Kazakhstan are proceeding with bids with full government support (perhaps they see some benefit to hosting an expo)....
    The feds knew a week before they announced it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Rona Ambrose's hair
    Yep, this Expo bid was dead the day Calgary pulled out. Same as the Portrait Gallery. Funny, Canada would have a true open-to-the-public portrait GALLERY by now (or at least soon) at no cost to the Federal Government, but thank you Stephen still has only a portrait warehouse.

    But, it would have been in Edmonton and we can't have that now can we?
    ... gobsmacked

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