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Thread: West LRT | Downtown to Lewis Estates | Conceptual Discussion About Approved Route

  1. #2501

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    The area is hardly anything like Williamsburg ever was.

    I was there last year, watching 5 huge condos being built simultaneously
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 01-11-2018 at 09:40 AM.
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    Edmonton's "Williamsburg", if it has one, is Whyte.
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    In light of today's news, what're the chances we'll be seeing full scale construction starting before phase 1 completes in 2020?

  5. #2505

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Just because we receive our own taxpayer money back, does not make it a worthwhile project. We all remember the 'Shovel Ready' NAIT line fiasco.

    We should look at better, less disruptive, transit modes
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    Prove me wrong, but I don't see this project going ahead after the next provincial election. I expect to add at least 8 years to this timeline. I can see history repeating itself (ie. the expansion plan south of University Station).

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    My friend sold her house 2012 because she was under pressure from the city to sell. The property has been gated off since then 93rda Ave 156th street. Apparently a strip mall is supposed to go in there.
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    So are they still completely set on all the at grade crossings?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    So are they still completely set on all the at grade crossings?
    Except Anthony Henday, 170 Street and possibly 178 Street.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Just because we receive our own taxpayer money back, does not make it a worthwhile project. We all remember the 'Shovel Ready' NAIT line fiasco.

    We should look at better, less disruptive, transit modes
    Valley Line's signaling is completely different as mentioned by others many times. The ROWs are made equal, unlike the NAIT line's LRT first ROW. It should be less disruptive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RicoLance21 View Post
    Prove me wrong, but I don't see this project going ahead after the next provincial election. I expect to add at least 8 years to this timeline. I can see history repeating itself (ie. the expansion plan south of University Station).
    Most likely WLRT will start late 2019 is my guess. Other then 87th Ave most of this portion of the WLRT line is at grade. Since Provincial dollars is already committed, work could easily start now. However, the City of Edmonton has a list of some 200 properties to acquire. If property owners don't agree to a fair sale, the city has the power to expropriate their land. Already, city council has approved the expropriation of 13 properties, but expropriation would only be used as a last resort if negotiations fail. I think wlrt land acquisition began as far back as 2012. My best friend sold her house at that time on 156th street/93rd a Ave for market value. Even right now the land is gated off and sits idle. I heard talk somewhere that the property is going to be developed for retail space.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...tate-1.4704577
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    It would be nice if they could work at doing a staged opening. 1st stage to 124 st., 2nd stage to Jasper place and 3rd stage to Lewis Estates. They could still work on all of it at the same time but they could open the line to key station locations.

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    Excellent news.
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    ^^ Not sure if that's the plan or not - but like that idea Cowboy.

    I think one of the tricky blocks will be 107 Street in front of the Fire Hall. Just don't see trains and fire trucks working well together ...
    ... gobsmacked

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    It would be nice if they could work at doing a staged opening. 1st stage to 124 st., 2nd stage to Jasper place and 3rd stage to Lewis Estates. They could still work on all of it at the same time but they could open the line to key station locations.
    I'm not sure if the City of Edmonton is going to stick with TransEd or not. Makes sense if they do. But it would not be much of a stretch to say build major stations, like Jasper Place or West Edmonton mall like you hinted at. Since (as far as I know) there is no major bridge or anything else in the way, other then realigning utilities the only thing holding WLRT up ls land acquisition and Federal funding.
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  16. #2516

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    It would be nice if they could work at doing a staged opening. 1st stage to 124 st., 2nd stage to Jasper place and 3rd stage to Lewis Estates. They could still work on all of it at the same time but they could open the line to key station locations.
    I asked Andrew Knack about that. Here's what he said: "We’ve done some analysis but one of the challenges is the further we go, the more we need the maintenance yard on the other end so there comes a point where the staging isn’t as viable. Still working on that though."
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  17. #2517

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    It would be nice if they could work at doing a staged opening. 1st stage to 124 st., 2nd stage to Jasper place and 3rd stage to Lewis Estates. They could still work on all of it at the same time but they could open the line to key station locations.
    I'm not sure if the City of Edmonton is going to stick with TransEd or not. Makes sense if they do. But it would not be much of a stretch to say build major stations, like Jasper Place or West Edmonton mall like you hinted at. Since (as far as I know) there is no major bridge or anything else in the way, other then realigning utilities the only thing holding WLRT up ls land acquisition and Federal funding.
    The west leg is not going to be a P3 apparently, so no TransEd. This is what I've heard and I was glad to hear it.
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    ^ Why are you happy about it? Trans Ed is doing a good job.
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    They are doing an ok job but I think they could have done much better in places.

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    Granted they had a couple of hic ups along the way but nothing they could have seen coming. Something tells me we're going to see another version the NE transit garage out by Campbell road.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Did the feds kick in their share? I think they did but none of the media stated as such today.
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    Was that not Sohi's announcement about a year or so ago?
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    Although there is plenty of room for expanding the yards on the southside. Also there has never been any talk of a new yard on the capital line south so why need a second facility on the west end?

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    There's still the ETS yard 156th/118th but its a long way to get LRT cars out to the Campbell road area because the West end ETS facility is just for buses only. Makes sense to have something like the NETG out that way. Or even something along the lines of a DL MacDonald maintenance facility.
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    CFRN was saying the WLRT will be online in 2028? It'll take 10 years to complete?
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  26. #2526

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    If Thales is involved, my money is on 2034...
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  28. #2528

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ Why are you happy about it? Trans Ed is doing a good job.
    I'm just not a fan of P3 projects in general. I think TransEd is doing a great job in construction, to be honest, but I'm more worried about the operational part once things get going. Having a private operator running this line will make it much harder to hold someone accountable when things don't work they're supposed to. Now it'll just be a case of the city blaming the operator when something isn't up to par, and we can't vote out private operators.
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  29. #2529

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Although there is plenty of room for expanding the yards on the southside. Also there has never been any talk of a new yard on the capital line south so why need a second facility on the west end?
    Actually, there are plans for a second Capital Line yard.

    Capital Line - South

    There was also the opportunity to share feedback on landscaping and the ‘look and feel’ around the recommended Twin Brooks Station and Operations Maintenance Facility.

    https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/PD...B_Sept2018.pdf

    https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_pla...lrt-study.aspx
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 02-11-2018 at 10:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    If Thales is involved, my money is on 2034...
    No doubt. I'll be long gone off this planet by that time.

    In light of the state of the world these days, is that such a bad thing?
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    @ IanO:

    I was just going by the news report but there's apparently 2 bridges that need to be built for the WLRT. 2025-26 seems about right. But a decade away?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ Why are you happy about it? Trans Ed is doing a good job.
    I'm just not a fan of P3 projects in general. I think TransEd is doing a great job in construction, to be honest, but I'm more worried about the operational part once things get going. Having a private operator running this line will make it much harder to hold someone accountable when things don't work they're supposed to. Now it'll just be a case of the city blaming the operator when something isn't up to par, and we can't vote out private operators.
    In the interests of transparency TransEd would still need to be held accountable. Perhaps the City of Edmonton can hire more consultants? <Sarcasm.
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    Elise Stolte just wrote this, essentially we get a slow tram that helps no one
    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...is-a-fancy-toy

  34. #2534

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Elise Stolte just wrote this, essentially we get a slow tram that helps no one
    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...is-a-fancy-toy
    Bang on article. Not only a sloth slow streetcar, a hyper expensive one. $175M/km or $280M/mile

    One of the most expensive LRT projects per km in North America

    It will do nothing to reduce transit times and possibly increase congestion rather than reduce it. What is the net transportation modal change expected? Unknown? Then why do it unless all you are doing is churning the existing ETS ridership?


    It is $2,500 of tax dollars from every person in Edmonton. For a family of four, that is $10,000 of transit investment for just a single line where the majority will never use it.

    There has to be a better way.
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    Where I disagree with Elise is on 107 Avenue as an alternate route. 107 Avenue only gets wider west of Groat Road. Plus, 107 Avenue would have resulted in an even longer and more circuitous route between West Edmonton Mall and Downtown.

    The only sensible solution would have been a completely grade separated high floor train that went from Lewis Estates and WEM straight down 87 Avenue across the river connecting to the existing Capital/Metro Line south of Health Sciences Station. This was the West LRT route recommended by City Administration until former Mayor Mandel threw a temper tantrum and mucked it up.

    The history of this awful City Council decision is well-documented in earlier parts of this thread. An awful decision that Edmontonians will sadly have to live with for decades to come.

  36. #2536

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT


    It is $2,500 of tax dollars from every person in Edmonton. For a family of four, that is $10,000 of transit investment for just a single line where the majority will never use it.

    There has to be a better way.
    if your number made any sense, it would have included the fact that families or home owners are not the only taxpayers in any municipality, and even if they were, that number, over the life of the project is much lower per year... but of course you have a flair for the dramatic and misleading stats

  37. #2537

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT


    It is $2,500 of tax dollars from every person in Edmonton. For a family of four, that is $10,000 of transit investment for just a single line where the majority will never use it.

    There has to be a better way.
    if your number made any sense, it would have included the fact that families or home owners are not the only taxpayers in any municipality, and even if they were, that number, over the life of the project is much lower per year... but of course you have a flair for the dramatic and misleading stats
    Per capita is a commonly used measure, it’s not dramatic at all. It’s simplistic.

    As an owner of commercial property through, I recognized that there are many other ways to slice and dice the factors and the taxpayers involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    @ IanO:

    I was just going by the news report but there's apparently 2 bridges that need to be built for the WLRT. 2025-26 seems about right. But a decade away?
    2028 was news to me...the dates that I always heard were 2025/2026.
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    ^ I got to start taping our local news from now on. I could have sworn I heard 2028 or a decade away. Anyone else heard that from CFRN?
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  40. #2540

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT
    It is $2,500 of tax dollars from every person in Edmonton. For a family of four, that is $10,000 of transit investment for just a single line where the majority will never use it.

    There has to be a better way.
    if your number made any sense, it would have included the fact that families or home owners are not the only taxpayers in any municipality, and even if they were, that number, over the life of the project is much lower per year... but of course you have a flair for the dramatic and misleading stats
    Per capita is a commonly used measure, it’s not dramatic at all. It’s simplistic.

    As an owner of commercial property through, I recognized that there are many other ways to slice and dice the factors and the taxpayers involved.
    Correct. Facts are not dramatic at all. It’s simplistic.

    It is an average number. Even if the direct cost per household is less, a business passes on their COE tax costs as part of their cost of goods and it is the consumer that pays the taxes when they purchase goods and services from local businesses.

    Medwards wants us to believe the $2,500,000,000.00 comes as a free gift from the COE, the Province and the Federal Governments.
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    ^^I heard 2028 as well

  42. #2542

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT
    It is $2,500 of tax dollars from every person in Edmonton. For a family of four, that is $10,000 of transit investment for just a single line where the majority will never use it.

    There has to be a better way.
    if your number made any sense, it would have included the fact that families or home owners are not the only taxpayers in any municipality, and even if they were, that number, over the life of the project is much lower per year... but of course you have a flair for the dramatic and misleading stats
    Per capita is a commonly used measure, it’s not dramatic at all. It’s simplistic.

    As an owner of commercial property through, I recognized that there are many other ways to slice and dice the factors and the taxpayers involved.
    Correct. Facts are not dramatic at all. It’s simplistic.

    It is an average number. Even if the direct cost per household is less, a business passes on their COE tax costs as part of their cost of goods and it is the consumer that pays the taxes when they purchase goods and services from local businesses.

    Medwards wants us to believe the $2,500,000,000.00 comes as a free gift from the COE, the Province and the Federal Governments.
    Wealth redistribution works wonders. Some federal taxpaying worker building this great country by living in the middle of nowhere, with near or no public services, will be able to come to Edmonton to enjoy a ride on Edmonton’s LRT. It’s like magic.

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    Typically the urban dweller subsides rural residents in many ways. Postage stamp policy for mail power and road taxes go a long way to making their existence possible. So don’t give us this crap.
    Living off the grid is a lifestyle choice.
    Last edited by Glenco; 03-11-2018 at 02:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    ^^I heard 2028 as well
    Thanks. I knew I wasn't going daft.
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  45. #2545

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Typically the urban dweller subsides rural residents in many ways. Postage stamp policy for mail power and road taxes go a long way to making their existence possible. So don’t give us this crap.
    Living off the grid is a lifestyle choice.
    Crap. Interesting. Living in a city is also a lifestyle choice. Finding stable work is easy, there’s efficiencies of scale, and a huge number of other clustering advantages. However, cities are as much consumers as generators of wealth. The public and private sector bureaucracies almost always locate in cities to efficiently perform the administrative functions. Other services like healthcare, etc. also locate in cities. So I’m not sure where taxes paid by rural residents all go. 100% to local roads? Or some to healthcare etc. located in nearby cities?

    However, in the case of Edmonton, Calgary etc where’s most of the wealth generated? The coal mines of Edmonton? Edmonton’s massive software, engineering and manufacturing sectors? Or is it through things like royalty transfers and taxes on rural resource production being performed by workers living outside of major cities

    Plus some of those postage stamp rates for electricity generated applied to electric generated at rural coal and hydro sources.

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    ^^I heard 2028 as well
    Thanks. I knew I wasn't going daft.
    Well I think that even though we have the money now I wouldn't be surprised that we wont see deployment of construction until 2021 or 2022. They will insist that all construction on the south part of valley line is complete before the conider starting the west leg. There will be at least a 1 to 1 1/2 gap between construction ending of south and start of west.

  47. #2547

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    ^^I heard 2028 as well
    Thanks. I knew I wasn't going daft.
    Well I think that even though we have the money now I wouldn't be surprised that we wont see deployment of construction until 2021 or 2022. They will insist that all construction on the south part of valley line is complete before the conider starting the west leg. There will be at least a 1 to 1 1/2 gap between construction ending of south and start of west.
    Wouldn’t redeploy specialized crews finishing one component to start working on another?

    Or does it all have to put out to bid and started from scratch each time? Experienced workers laid off. New company hired, new workers trained...

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Typically the urban dweller subsides rural residents in many ways. Postage stamp policy for mail power and road taxes go a long way to making their existence possible. So don’t give us this crap.
    Living off the grid is a lifestyle choice.
    Crap. Interesting. Living in a city is also a lifestyle choice. Finding stable work is easy, there’s efficiencies of scale, and a huge number of other clustering advantages. However, cities are as much consumers as generators of wealth. The public and private sector bureaucracies almost always locate in cities to efficiently perform the administrative functions. Other services like healthcare, etc. also locate in cities. So I’m not sure where taxes paid by rural residents all go. 100% to local roads? Or some to healthcare etc. located in nearby cities?

    However, in the case of Edmonton, Calgary etc where’s most of the wealth generated? The coal mines of Edmonton? Edmonton’s massive software, engineering and manufacturing sectors? Or is it through things like royalty transfers and taxes on rural resource production being performed by workers living outside of major cities

    Plus some of those postage stamp rates for electricity generated applied to electric generated at rural coal and hydro sources.
    If it wasn’t for the consumers in urban areas buying electricity that poor guy or girl living in rural Alberta would not have a job. How long do you want to continue this poor me divisive argument?
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    Heard on the radio that some councillors are coming to their senses on the poor design of the existing route, there’s talk of potentially scrapping it and going back to the drawing board!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Heard on the radio that some councillors are coming to their senses on the poor design of the existing route, there’s talk of potentially scrapping it and going back to the drawing board!
    Nah.....just one councillor - Cartmell - never even heard of him...looks like the coucillor that was beat up as a kid a lot. His opinion means nothing....we're good to go with the plans....no drawing board necessary.......

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    if common sense means being beat up, than beat me up, please.

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    I don't think there's an easy route, but we definitely need some kind of LRT to West Edmonton Mall. I think the sticking point is Stony Plain Road. There used to be a trolley line to 142 Street, I don't want to waste another 10 years developing another LRT route.
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  53. #2553

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    High floor line down 87 ave from Health Sciences.

    Low Floor line 104 ave to 124 st, North to 111 ave past Westmount, South on 142 ave to 107 ave (nice TOD site at the traffic circle, west on 107 ave to 156 st and South to Jasper Place transit centre with a later extension to Meadowlark to meet up with the high floor line.

    Boom, direct connection from WJP to University & downtown, SPR isn't impacted and lots of TOD opportunities along the low floor route & at Meadowlark.

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    ^ Its a moot point going forward. 87 ave is dead in the water
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    Most likely but if one councillor changes his mind, he might convince others. Besides, it's Edmonton. Screwing up major projects is what we do.

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    Cartmell wants to halt the LRT to the west end so that COE can spend another 20 years dithering and getting nowhere. I say quit farting around and just get the damn thing built now ffs!
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I think Carnell likes the sound of his own voice. Funding is secure even if there is a change in government as they have assured funding commitments will be honoured even if the scrap the carbon tax.
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    Wlrt is in the design stages folks. Lots of time effor and energy and a lot of cash went into where we are. I could see a tweak with wlrt like going up to 107th Ave but at this stage, its not that likely.
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    ya, lets all prance around jumping for joy that we've spent lots of energy time and money on an horrible LRT route. Edmonton. Settling for mediocrity since at least 2006. We're Edmonton. We don't deserve better.

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    Spot on Medwards.

    Just because 3 levels of government try to bribe us with our own money, does not make a project a good idea.

    Let us not forget the NAIT line 'shovel ready' mantra.
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    I'm actually ok with route, the only thing I want them to rework is to elevate or bury some other sections of the route to maintain the current transportation network while adding a new mode of transportation in that part of the city.

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    So you're not okay with the route then, as you want changes, like most of us do. And no, these problems aren't easily corrected once the line is built. It's not a case of 'let's just get it built and see what happens, correct problems in the future". While it may be possible to rework after built, it will be very costly, and likely involve closing the line during the rework. It's absolutely paramount to get this things right, the first time. Unless you like paying for things twice or more.
    Last edited by Medwards; 09-11-2018 at 09:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Cartmell wants to halt the LRT to the west end so that COE can spend another 20 years dithering and getting nowhere. I say quit farting around and just get the damn thing built now ffs!
    Was there nothing like this already in use in other cities? I’d have guessed that all there is to know, was already known before council decided to go with this version.

    Even before that the only issue would have been figuring out how to best make it work here. That too should have been determined ages ago and compromises presented to City Council. Where problems arise would then be compromises by the initial designs and those following and a result of City Council’s involment where the “best to make it work here” was overridden or ignored in order to meet some other agenda.

    So the only thing that should now be debatable is second or third guessing the compromises.
    Last edited by KC; 09-11-2018 at 09:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Cartmell wants to halt the LRT to the west end so that COE can spend another 20 years dithering and getting nowhere. I say quit farting around and just get the damn thing built now ffs!
    Couldn't agree more. Cartmell doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things (this is the Councillor who says he draws highway off ramp sketches as a hobby....), and this project will go ahead as planned.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Cartmell wants to halt the LRT to the west end so that COE can spend another 20 years dithering and getting nowhere. I say quit farting around and just get the damn thing built now ffs!
    Couldn't agree more. Cartmell doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things (this is the Councillor who says he draws highway off ramp sketches as a hobby....), and this project will go ahead as planned.
    Botton line - if we let this Wiener Schnitzel get his way - S#$tkicker town gets the loot....would you rather have that happen?

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    Don't worry. He's a newbie and is only one vote. It's regularly scheduled programming. Construction will start in the next year or two.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    Don't worry. He's a newbie and is only one vote. It's regularly scheduled programming. Construction will start in the next year or two.
    Exactly, his mommy and daddy told him when he was just a tot that'd grow up to be big and strong one day and that "he'd a make a difference in this world." Well this is his way of a self-fulfilling his prophecy. Someone should tell him to disappear into city hall's dark corners and only come out when he's told to.....lol....

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    Quote Originally Posted by maclac View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    Don't worry. He's a newbie and is only one vote. It's regularly scheduled programming. Construction will start in the next year or two.
    Exactly, his mommy and daddy told him when he was just a tot that'd grow up to be big and strong one day and that "he'd a make a difference in this world." Well this is his way of a self-fulfilling his prophecy. Someone should tell him to disappear into city hall's dark corners and only come out when he's told to.....lol....
    Wow. Some very emotional reactions to someone speaking their mind.

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    He's my Councillor and I appreciate that he's thinking about these things, but I don't agree with his stance on this in particular.

    It's nice to have a someone on Council representing my ward who isn't on auto-pilot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Wlrt is in the design stages folks. Lots of time effor and energy and a lot of cash went into where we are. I could see a tweak with wlrt like going up to 107th Ave but at this stage, its not that likely.
    Hardly a tweak. It would delay construction by a couple of years. A tweak is deciding to move a platform half a block.
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    Could be wrong, but my understanding is these deals (funding WLRT) are done by memorandum of understanding that can't be undone by a future govt.

    Anyway, like it or not - and excepting what will certainly be a gigantic fiasco at 109 Street I like - it's going ahead.
    ... gobsmacked

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Wlrt is in the design stages folks. Lots of time effor and energy and a lot of cash went into where we are. I could see a tweak with wlrt like going up to 107th Ave but at this stage, its not that likely.
    Hardly a tweak. It would delay construction by a couple of years. A tweak is deciding to move a platform half a block.
    Like I said its not likely that a "tweak" (realignment) like that would happen anyway.

    As for Councilor Cartmell he was one of the proponents advocating for a Gondalize form of Centre line lrt which is an idea not without merit:

    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...e-lrt-solution
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    Center Lin Gondola is certainly an idea without merit, and very half baked in all honesty. A gondola across the river? Sure, I can get behind that.

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    The wlrt route unfortunately is set in stone. Like Highlander I don't like the way 109th street is being handled. But it is what it is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Where I disagree with Elise is on 107 Avenue as an alternate route. 107 Avenue only gets wider west of Groat Road. Plus, 107 Avenue would have resulted in an even longer and more circuitous route between West Edmonton Mall and Downtown.

    The only sensible solution would have been a completely grade separated high floor train that went from Lewis Estates and WEM straight down 87 Avenue across the river connecting to the existing Capital/Metro Line south of Health Sciences Station. This was the West LRT route recommended by City Administration until former Mayor Mandel threw a temper tantrum and mucked it up.

    The history of this awful City Council decision is well-documented in earlier parts of this thread. An awful decision that Edmontonians will sadly have to live with for decades to come.
    and I remember 'crats in Administration that told the council the downtown tunnel couldn't handle both lines. And what is the Metro and Capital Lines doing now?

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    Lets think this Valley Line extention to Lewis Farms a bit here.

    Do we want mass transit (slow ding dong train as proposed) or rapid transit a la Metro/Capital Lines?

    Given the Valley Line is not a P3 they don't have to build it all at once. Station extension by station extension, year after year until it reaches Lewis Farms...or not.

    Maybe the line will only get as far as Meadowlark before Edmontonians come their sense and realize what Administration has foistered upon the council.

    The 87 Avenue Rapid Line from Health Science suddenly comes available again. Think of the grade separation of the trains at University Avenue that would result.

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    Scrolling up a few posts, I gotta say those posts are something you’d see out of the movie idiocracy. Who trash talks a politician for being interested in designing highway infrastructure, speaking his mind, or being intellectually curious?

    It says more about the poster than it does the politician in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Scrolling up a few posts, I gotta say those posts are something you’d see out of the movie idiocracy. Who trash talks a politician for being interested in designing highway infrastructure, speaking his mind, or being intellectually curious?

    It says more about the poster than it does the politician in my opinion.
    "Speaking his mind?" Who said he can speak his mind? Is he "speaking his mind" on behalf of his constituents? Or is he "speaking his mind" because he's an insignificant little church mouse who didn't have the cajones to "speak his mind" during a council session. Rather decided to "speak his mind" in the Journal to say "hey, don't forget about me - I was too chicken to say anything in front of my peers, so now I'm "speaking my mind" in the paper. See where I'm going with this? Why don't you speak your mind in the Journal about what a bully I am?.....lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post
    Lets think this Valley Line extention to Lewis Farms a bit here.

    Do we want mass transit (slow ding dong train as proposed) or rapid transit a la Metro/Capital Lines?

    Given the Valley Line is not a P3 they don't have to build it all at once. Station extension by station extension, year after year until it reaches Lewis Farms...or not.

    Maybe the line will only get as far as Meadowlark before Edmontonians come their sense and realize what Administration has foistered upon the council.

    The 87 Avenue Rapid Line from Health Science suddenly comes available again. Think of the grade separation of the trains at University Avenue that would result.
    We could have rapid transit if the WLRT went from Health Science along 87th Ave and it could still be elevated after 159th street/87th ave and be low floor. The Capital line was built in stages even at P3 and its still a work in progress. To my way of thinking, urban means slow despite turnaround times. Grade separation wouldn't be necessary from Health Sciences to 159th Ave. if an 87th Ave. alignment took place. Like I said its basically a straight line.
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclac View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Scrolling up a few posts, I gotta say those posts are something you’d see out of the movie idiocracy. Who trash talks a politician for being interested in designing highway infrastructure, speaking his mind, or being intellectually curious?

    It says more about the poster than it does the politician in my opinion.
    "Speaking his mind?" Who said he can speak his mind? Is he "speaking his mind" on behalf of his constituents? Or is he "speaking his mind" because he's an insignificant little church mouse who didn't have the cajones to "speak his mind" during a council session. Rather decided to "speak his mind" in the Journal to say "hey, don't forget about me - I was too chicken to say anything in front of my peers, so now I'm "speaking my mind" in the paper. See where I'm going with this? Why don't you speak your mind in the Journal about what a bully I am?.....lol
    Personally I don't think you come off as a bully at all because these comments are done behind a nameless, faceless, account. You're entitled to your opinion, and sometimes you've got some good posts with bold substance, but when I see anonymous name-calling like above, I tend to just think it's some 11 year old that has nothing really going on and is just trying to stir the pot. It definitely doesn't come off as a bully.

    If you're open to some advice, I'd say stick to your good posts. Unless you're willing to give your name, and the the accounting firm you work for, comments like the one above kinda make you look like a joke.

    Also, most municipal level politicians are opinionated. They build platforms based on their opinions and then people vote for or don't vote for them. Which even if you don't agree with them, you can respect for not bowing to every different vote.
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    My guess is that Jasper Place at Stony Plain Road will improve very slowly, if at all. Belvedere hasn't changed very much with the LRT. I do think, though, that communities around the rest of the line will benefit.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Belvedere station is undergoing a new bus loop passenger waiting area.
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    Belevedere also has something that JP doesn't, specifically an industrial area on the east side. If that got rezoned the rest of the area would benefit. I remember when Belevedere opened in 1978 and we got to smell the rending plant across 129 ave.

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    ^ That would have been the old Gainers location in the mid 1990's I believe. Only the smoke stack remains
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    Nope, Gainers was on 66 street just north of the Yellowhead. Smokestack is on Fort Road and the Yellowhead at the old Swift site.

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    So Swift was on the site of where the NE Transit garage is being built now? And Gainers was where Station Pointe is correct?

    I've lived in the Sifton Park area for the last 18 years
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    And here I thought gainers originally was on the mill creek ravine south of whyte ave. Then they bought the swifts plant at 66 st and Santa Rosa rd. ( before the yellow head). Swifts and gainers were one and the same. The big stack is from the Canada Packers plant which used to be next to the huge Burns operation.maybe
    Last edited by Drumbones; 12-11-2018 at 05:23 PM.

  88. #2588

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    Well, you all got it wrong except the rendering plant.

    The rendering plant (aka the glue factory) was on 129th at about 61st street, just south of the Belvedere station and west of the tracks.
    The horse butcher was immediately east of the station and north of 129th where the Impark is now
    Swifts original location was on the east side of 66th street and 124th ave. and expanded south to Yellowhead.
    It later became Gainers and Peter Pocklington owned it.
    The other Gainers plant was beside the Mill Creek Ravine, south of Whyte Ave.
    Capital Packers was on Fort Road where the smoke stack is.
    see center of picture (the site was very large)

    http://www.davidmurrayarchitect.ca/c...s-smoke-stack/


    Burns was on 120th ave and 72nd street. When they extended Capilano Freeway (it was originally called a freeway) they tore Burns down.
    http://avenuehistory.org/2012/10/bur...packing-plant/
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 12-11-2018 at 05:36 PM.
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    Anyway they all moved out and did not rebuild near Edmonton and thousands of jobs started up in Brandon, Brooks, High River, Calgary and elsewhere.

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    ^^
    I should have known. Never argue with the voice of wisdom

    Thanks Replacement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^^
    I should have known. Never argue with the voice of wisdom

    Thanks Replacement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^^
    I should have known. Never argue with the voice of wisdom

    Thanks Replacement.
    Replacement PRT
    Still remember standing on the Belvedere LRT platform, hearing the horses to the east in their pens and the smell of the rendering plant to the south.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^^
    I should have known. Never argue with the voice of wisdom

    Thanks Replacement.
    Replacement PRT
    Different monikers
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