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Thread: Enbridge Centre (was Kelly Ramsey Building Rebuild) | Retail & Office |

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    Default Enbridge Centre (was Kelly Ramsey Building Rebuild) | Retail & Office |

    right now...

    please be it not too major of a fire.

    Worthing can go to hell for how they have treated that beauty.
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  2. #2

    Default Downtown is burning

    Brick building on Rice Howard Way (near Scotia Place). 2 Fires in 2 days

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    Fire is three alarm so far.

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    Which building is this? (sorry not familar with it... approx address would be great)

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    There were flames reaching as high as BMO building at one point. Still lots of black smoke.

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    RHW - cocodis etc.
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    The building with Table d Renoir restaurant is the one.

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    This is three alarm so far. The Kelley Ramsey is where Co Co Di, Bistro Praha are (and Worthington Properties).
    Last edited by DebraW; 24-03-2009 at 05:04 PM.

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    Seemed to be the top floor / South West side of building from this view.
    Last edited by moahunter; 24-03-2009 at 05:24 PM. Reason: West and East mixed up - doh!

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    apparently it is the building beside K/R right above La Table de Renior.
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    So worthington is taking a page from the arlington debacle?

    ( I think I like these buildings even more then the arlington itself)

  14. #14

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    BTW, the correct name of the building is the Kelly-Ramsey and my sources say that it is not the K/R that is on fire.

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    Sign of the times? Will there be more fires in the next few days as more businesses go under Hopefully not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DebraW View Post
    BTW, the correct name of the building is the Kelly-Ramsey and my sources say that it is not the K/R that is on fire.
    Thanks Tips!

    and just for your FYI... Its the Kelly and Ramsey Buildings: http://www.rewedmonton.ca/content_view2?CONTENT_ID=1483
    Last edited by Medwards; 24-03-2009 at 05:20 PM.

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    Fire rages at building at Rice Howard Way in downtown Edmonton


    BY LAURA DRAKE, EDMONTONJOURNAL.COMMARCH 24, 2009 4:07 PM


    STORYPHOTOS ( 1 )



    Smoke billows from the top floor of a building on Rice Howard Way in downtown Edmonton.
    Photograph by: Supplied, Edmonton Journal
    EDMONTON — Smoke and flames are pouring out of the top floor of a building on Rice Howard Way in downtown Edmonton.

    Fire crews responded to the scene at 3:40 p.m. Tuesday.

    Thick smoke is billowing over downtown Edmonton and water from firehoses is cascading over the front of the building at 10160 100A Street.

    The street level of the building was occupied by La Table de Renoir, a defunct French bistro.

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    © Copyright (c) The Edmonton Journal

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...532/story.html
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    It is not the Kelly Ramsey. It is the adjoining sandstone looking building directly west. The top floor seems to be where it is isolated to...from my vantage point anyway...I'm looking down on it.

    Unless the two are considered the same...heck if I know...
    Onward and upward

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    Oh my! I walked right past that place at 3:10pm today!

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    ^^That's what I see too. It's an old building that faces the walkway in front of Scotia Place (doesn't really face a road, which is why no-body probably knows it).

  22. #22

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    Ok - lets not get confused here. There is 2 buildings... one is called the "Kelly Building" and the other one is called the "Ramsey Building"... they are both side by side.

    there is no such thing as "Kelly-Ramsey Building" There is though - the "Kelly-Ramsey Block".

    Thanks,

    http://www.rewedmonton.ca/content_view2?CONTENT_ID=1483

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    It is not the Kelsey Ramsey. It is the adjoining sandstone looking building directly west. The top floor seems to be where it is isolated to...from my vantage point anyway...I'm looking down on it.
    Correct, it is not the Kelly Ramsey Bldg but the four (?) story building in the courtyard. (The buildings adjoin however.)

    Scotia Place (SP) Tower Two floors six and down have been evacuated.

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    There is NO SUCH building in Edmonton called the Kelly Ramsey Building.

    There is the Kelly building

    There is the Ramsey Building

    There is the Kelly-Ramsey Block (this describes the two buildings side-by-side, in which one of the buildings is on fire)

    The building that is on fire is the Kelly Building of the Kelly Ramsey Block

    (this information was provided to me by my sources... THE INTERWEBS and some other imaginary sources I like to pretend I'm connected with)

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    Aieeee, that looks bad. =(
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    It'd be really bad if the whole thing went down. Let's just hope the best!

    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    There is NO SUCH building in Edmonton called the Kelly Ramsey Building.

    There is the Kelly building

    There is the Ramsey Building

    There is the Kelly-Ramsey Block (this describes the two buildings side-by-side, in which one of the buildings is on fire)

    The building that is on fire is the Kelly Building of the Kelly Ramsey Block

    (this information was provided to me by my sources... THE INTERWEBS and some other imaginary sources I like to pretend I'm connected with)
    What's the big deal? So there is two buildings - you've proven your point. I don't think it really matters too much.
    ----

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    It looks very bad. Hope it doesn't spread to the next building. I'd hate to see the Bistro Praha damaged.
    Almost always open to debate...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Ok - lets not get confused here. There is 2 buildings... one is called the "Kelly Building" and the other one is called the "Ramsey Building"... they are both side by side.

    there is no such thing as "Kelly-Ramsey Building" There is though - the "Kelly-Ramsey Block".

    Thanks,

    http://www.rewedmonton.ca/content_view2?CONTENT_ID=1483

    Good citation and I have always called it the K-R Block as well but the owner, Worthington, calls it the Kelly-Ramsey Building.
    http://www.worthington.ca/properties/contact.html

  30. #30

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    ^I'd bet because they own the whole block, they consider it one building.

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    I'd have to say courtesy of the image provided in this thread that this building is likely... toast.

    sad day it is.

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    The buildings are interconnected through the basement.
    Almost always open to debate...

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    I think its isolated to that floor / part of the building. If you going to have a fire, I guess it is good luck to be on the top floor as the smoke goes up from there (well, maybe not so lucky if there was anybody in there).

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    Last edited by 24karat; 24-03-2009 at 05:41 PM.
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    wow, let's hope they get rid of the fire quick. it'd be tragic if the whole thing burnt. that thing is truly a gem. hopefully the top floor will be able to be re used if the whole building is still useable.
    ----

  36. #36

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    I've kind of been waiting for something like this to happen to this building, actually. It has been underused and sitting vacant for a long time.

  37. #37

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    News sources are now simply saying a building off RHW as there does not seem to be a definitive answer.

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    The top floor may be the only one on fire, but the rest of the building will see water and smoke damage. If the roof goes, or is significantly damaged, (if it isn't already) this building is damaged too far to be repaired, especially under a worthington budget.

    It's a sad day, and I'll be pouring a pint on the ground for my homie, Kelly-Ramsey Block.

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    sad day for our downtown

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    sad day for our downtown
    I used to have a photog client who worked/lived/partied and yes roller skated on this very floor

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    ^^^The roof looks solid. Firefighters seem to be debating whether or not to go in. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but it doesn't look bad from the outside. But probably enough damage to use as an excuse to remove a historical building - such buildings often burn down for some reason...

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    Roof is starting to sag.
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    Reporting that the fire is now contained.

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    Ugh. This is not a good day for downtown Edmonton. I can only hope that the building can be saved and not to let rot like the Arlington did.

    I'm wondering what could've caused such a fire? Maybe a shorted wire, since this is not an uncommon cause of fires in older buildings?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 24karat View Post
    Roof is starting to sag.
    ^funny the snow hasn''t melted though. There is some new smoke coming from a window on roof on the East (as opposed to West) near where the buildings adjoin. I am not sure it is fully contained.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
    I can only hope that the building can be saved and not to let rot like the Arlington did.
    I think the city learned its lesson with the Arlington.

    *crosses fingers*

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    Just posted some pics: http://bit.ly/yOJ7R
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    Thanks Mack, I was hoping you would post your pictures here!

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    oh my. This does not look good.
    ----

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    Even if it survives the fire, it may not survive the water damage that will ensue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTA View Post
    Even if it survives the fire, it may not survive the water damage that will ensue.
    yes, that's the sad part - the real issues even be the fire damage on that floor and the roof. the real issues will be the water damage from there down, particularly to plaster and drywall on the way down, and the adjacent building as well seeing as they are connected at the basement level. it doesn't take long to fill a basement or two with water and that's likely where all of the electrical equipment and transformers etc. are...
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    CBC news said the building is ruined now. I'm not sure if that's true, I hope it isn't. First the collapse in Boyle, then the fire on 101st, now this. Jeez.
    ----

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    between the fire damage, smoke damage, and water damage, I doubt very much so that the building will be salvageable. I do hope the building thats connected that didn't have a fire, will be able to remain though.

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    Well, this is a shame. But, this is the reality of things, cities are organic.

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    Update

    Table Renoirs artwork wasn't damaged as it wasn't in the building.

    Building is dealing with severe water damage. I guess it doesn't help that the building's so old.

    The fire is now gone.

    Traffic closures are supposed to be IN effect until 12 midnight.
    ----

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    This was a shocker when I came out my office at 4:15. I feel terribly sorry for Pierre Renoir and hopefully his paintings were not damaged (at least the ones in the restaurant still). He had already by himself replaced the hardwood floors at least twice. Godamn idiots that run Worthington.
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    wow i was wondering what was going on. stupid me i almost walked right by it without even noticing, i just happened to look left.
    be offended! figure out why later...

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    yes, that's the sad part - the real issues even be the fire damage on that floor and the roof. the real issues will be the water damage from there down
    I didn't really think of that watching - I guess some of the fire department water turns to steam, but quite a bit sinks to the basement.

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    I just hope the businesses in the other building, like Bistro Praha and Brittney's, aren't affected.
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    Any news on the cause of the fire yet? Any chance it's due to Worthington negligence?

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    It'll be days or weeks before there's any sort of info on that, most likely. I'm sure it's an accident. I can't see Worthington being dumb enough to torch their own building given all the bad press and scrutiny they have been receiving lately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Any news on the cause of the fire yet? Any chance it's due to Worthington negligence?
    Have not heard anything about the cause. Interesting that a guy (can't remember his name) from Worthington was interviewed on one of the news channels tonight and he showed absolutely no emotion whatsoever, no comment about "this is a disaster" nothing. Very odd indeed. Yes, they have been very negligent and I don't know how they have got away with being such slum landlords for so long. How dare they not have heat for their tenants in the same building all of last winter. Hence Nikita's, Bistro Praha and La Table Renoir had mobile heaters all of last winter, now two of those restaurants have closed. I can only hope that the fire department investigates all avenues on this fire.
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    I wonder how many years it will sit as a charred ruin?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    I wonder how many years it will sit as a charred ruin?
    Good point SDM. Of course, this is very prime downtown space, la creme de la creme.
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    “You just take where you’re at and you keep on going,” Worthington manager Marcus Schwabe said while watching the fire. “I just wanted to make sure everyone is safe in there. The rest is replaceable.”

    Schwabe said he and the restaurant have insurance.


    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...532/story.html
    I guess that's one good thing... will Worthington take the money and run? Or will they have to rebuild?

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    Funny enough it says the fire started on the 4th floor, which would be Worthingtons office.

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    ^Interesting . Oh well let's hope all is at best of what we can make of this situation.
    ----

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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanS View Post
    Funny enough it says the fire started on the 4th floor, which would be Worthingtons office.
    maybe to raise some money to pay back the BC gov't for the mill..........
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RyanS View Post
    Funny enough it says the fire started on the 4th floor, which would be Worthingtons office.
    maybe to raise some money to pay back the BC gov't for the mill..........
    I think Draco the Slovanian deal maker owns that one

  73. #73

    Default Darren from Brittany's here

    Hello all, not a good day or night for Brittany's Lounge and the other businesses affected by this fire as well.

    I was there from the start to finish, and it was not an easy thing to watch. The worst thing was calling the owner of Brittany's while she was getting ready to come in to work to tell her what happened. It was one of the most difficult and heartbreaking things I have ever had to do.

    We are not sure how well the building fared because of the fire. I just talked to the Fire Department, and they said they were going to try restore heat ASAP, and that electrical was on hold because there is still water flowing through the building.

    I have not been in our property since the fire as we cannot get access at this point in time. So I cannot give any report on our situation other than wait and see until power is restored.

    And for what little it is worth, I wish best of luck to Co Co Di's and Bistro Praha as well. I saw the owners and workers today through the duration of all of this, and they are very strong, high quality people.

    Also, the fire department were top notch. The fire was devastating but they were in complete control and did a fantastic job. Each and every person we dealt with were professional and sympathetic to the situation at hand. I cannot thank these people enough for what they did to isolate that fire, preserve the building the best they could, and deal with those immediately affected by the fire.

    I just hope that the building can withstand this tragedy and we can all recouperate, deal with it, and move ahead.

    It is going to suck going there tomorrow morning not to open up, but to see what is left of our place if we can even get in.

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    Good luck to you Darren and the rest of the business owners affected by this tragedy. I sure hope your landlords are cooperative through this ordeal. Please keep us updated.

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    etownboarder, thanks for the well wishes.

    Once power is restored I can at least get into our place and hope it is salvageable, but also hope Co Co Di's and Bistro Praha will come through it as well. They are not only icons on Rice Howard Way but also friends to us. It is important that Kelly-Ramsey building is preserved, but the tenants in there are as well. They have been there that long for a reason.

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    Absolutely... I would miss Co Co Di's and Bistro Praha greatly, as I know many others would too. Bistro Praha is a bit of a legend in Edmonton. I also hope Table de Renoir will one day open again, as it's always been somewhere I've wanted to try, but have never had the chance. Good luck and best wishes to all those affected by this fire.

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    The buildings are connected on each floor via doorways - the west building slightly higher than east building. Yes, such a shame and many many people will be devastated by this fire. Will Worthington perform their duties as an ethical landlord? Unlikely given their past history in other buildings Their office is the only one where the fire started?
    Last edited by Shamy; 25-03-2009 at 10:14 AM. Reason: took out boardwalk reference - thought I'd better not

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    ^lots of speculation at this point but there are far too many 'things' coming together here...
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    Not that I am a fan of or defending Worthington in any way, but if you look at all the properties, more specifically Heritage properties that they own or have owned in the city, I don't think a single one has been demolished. They seem to have the right vision and the right ideas about preservation and restoration, they are just extremely poor on the business side of things and they take a LOT of shortcuts, and the quality of their restorations are questionable - thus deservedly earning their reputation. However, they do have a track record of saving a few heritage buildings from the wrecking ball, namely the Phillips building. Maybe I'm being a bit optimistic, but let's hope that they come through this time to save this gem on RHW.

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    "You just take where you're at and you keep on going," Worthington manager Marcus Schwabe said while watching the fire. "I just wanted to make sure everyone is safe in there. The rest is replaceable."

    people 1st yes, but this quote makes me want to have steam coming out of my ears, what a bunch of *$#*$#&#(#[email protected]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jess View Post
    Not that I am a fan of or defending Worthington in any way, but if you look at all the properties, more specifically Heritage properties that they own or have owned in the city, I don't think a single one has been demolished. They seem to have the right vision and the right ideas about preservation and restoration, they are just extremely poor on the business side of things and they take a LOT of shortcuts, and the quality of their restorations are questionable - thus deservedly earning their reputation. However, they do have a track record of saving a few heritage buildings from the wrecking ball, namely the Phillips building. Maybe I'm being a bit optimistic, but let's hope that they come through this time to save this gem on RHW.
    do they? or do they have a track record of buying empty old buildings (some historic some crap) and just try to make money from them?

    I respect them for their attempts but in almost every single case they failed.
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    ^I agree

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RyanS View Post
    Funny enough it says the fire started on the 4th floor, which would be Worthingtons office.
    maybe to raise some money to pay back the BC gov't for the mill..........
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^lots of speculation at this point but there are far too many 'things' coming together here...
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    "You just take where you're at and you keep on going," Worthington manager Marcus Schwabe said while watching the fire. "I just wanted to make sure everyone is safe in there. The rest is replaceable."

    people 1st yes, but this quote makes me want to have steam coming out of my ears, what a bunch of *$#*$#&#(#[email protected]
    IanO, you should leave both the innuendo and the pompous behind - neither of them is particularly becoming or useful. besides, what the *$#*$#&#(#[email protected] would you expect anyone to say in these circumstances - "sure hope they can save the building as long as too many people aren't endangered in there"?
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    Above all, this better not turn into another Arlington situation....

    Buildings facades can be saved. The Hecla block stood opened to the elements for years after a fire until it was rebuilt.
    Last edited by MylesC; 25-03-2009 at 10:59 AM.
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  85. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    do they? or do they have a track record of buying empty old buildings (some historic some crap) and just try to make money from them?

    I respect them for their attempts but in almost every single case they failed.
    Which old buildings have you successfully rehabilitated / revitalized? Have you done any better?

    Until somebody sets up a private/public fund that acquires and refurbishes historic buildings in Edmonton, owners have to do the best the can in the circumstances given the economics of what is, or is not, possible. The facts are not clear right now, and we don't know what will happen - we have to wait and see I think.
    Last edited by moahunter; 25-03-2009 at 11:10 AM.

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    Ken - if it were pretty much any other owner i would not say what i said but i think most of us can agree that there is precedent involved.
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    "Which old buildings have you successfully rehabilitated / revitalized? Have you done any better?"

    my cottage in Ontario:>

    regardless, i know owners/past employees/renters/etc. that have been involved with Worthington in the past and none have anything good to say about them.

    think what you will, but something smells
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    I heard on the news today reports that the building is not as damaged as people think, and can be salvaged. Whether it will be or not, who know.

    BTW, how do you get an "explosion" (as reported by witnesses) on the 4th floor of a building that has no natural gas? Oh Mr. White...
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    Frankly, I've always thought these buildings were grossly under utilized. The restaurants always looked dead in the evening and I never had any interest in going.

    Best case scenario would be a complete renovation (worthingtonless) to modernize the retail to bring in better restaurants. I'm still waiting for my RHW Piano Bar.

  90. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    my cottage in Ontario:>
    I am willing to bet that managing a number of properties and tenants throughout Edmonton is a little bit more challenging than managing a private cottage. Especially in this economy - I imagine number of tenants throughout the city are struggling to pay bills and similar / dealing with stressful business situations. More often than not, it wouldn't surprise me if when there is somebody to blame in a fire (and we don't know one way or the other here, and for all we know, may never), it is the tennant rather than the landlord.

    As to the comment earlier by Susan about lack of emotion - I think we have to be very careful with that. People react in very different ways to situations, not everybody cries or runs around in a panic. If anything, I think the person on TV looked in a state of shock, which is understandable I guess.

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    ^Bistro Praha is an institution!

    Also heard Holt's closed it's door so it's precious cargo wouldn't get smelling like smoke, haha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    my cottage in Ontario:>
    I am willing to bet that managing a number of properties and tenants throughout Edmonton is a little bit more challenging than managing a private cottage. Especially in this economy - I imagine number of tenants throughout the city are struggling to pay bills and similar / dealing with stressful business situations. More often than not, it wouldn't surprise me if when there is somebody to blame in a fire (and we don't know one way or the other here, and for all we know, may never), it is the tennant rather than the landlord.

    As to the comment earlier by Susan about lack of emotion - I think we have to be very careful with that. People react in very different ways to situations, not everybody cries or runs around in a panic. If anything, I think the person on TV looked in a state of shock, which is understandable I guess.
    um isn't the tenant the landlord in this case?

    i have zero sympathy for Worthington, for they have demonstrated time and time again that they are incompetent and below board.
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  93. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    um isn't the tenant the landlord in this case?
    Touche - you got me there! Let's wait and see though. I'm just glad the hot dog stand didn't burn down - that would have impacted me.
    Last edited by moahunter; 25-03-2009 at 11:32 AM.

  94. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    i have zero sympathy for Worthington, for they have demonstrated time and time again that they are incompetent and below board.
    Totally agree! They have been quite terrible at managing their properties.
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    I'm just glad the hot dog stand didn't burn down - that would have impacted me.
    No, but apparently some of the trees in front got damaged from the water/ice.
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    Damage from downtown Edmonton fire pegged at $3.5M


    EDMONTONJOURNAL.COMMARCH 25, 2009 10:02 AMBE THE FIRST TO POST A COMMENT


    STORYPHOTOS ( 2 )



    More Images »

    A fire consumed the top floor of an old building on Rice Howard Way. The main floor of the building is occupied by La Table de Renoir restaurant, but the rest of the building may have been vacant.
    Photograph by: SHAUGHN BUTTS, EDMONTON JOURNAL
    EDMONTON - A blaze that gutted a historic building on Rice Howard Way on Tuesday caused an estimated $3.5 million in damages, fire officials say.

    Sixteen fire trucks and nearly 70 firefighters were called to the fire, which was called in at 3:40 p.m. and was under control by 6 p.m. No one was hurt.

    Narrow hallways in the 82-year-old building hampered their efforts to reach the source of the fire, which started in an office under renovation on the fourth floor.


    © Copyright (c) The Edmonton Journal

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...715/story.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Ken - if it were pretty much any other owner i would not say what i said but i think most of us can agree that there is precedent involved.
    unless you are aware of any arson convictions that i am not, i don't think there is any precedent involved that will support your statements IanO.

    please don't misunderstand me - i am not defending their business practices or their projects and my thoughts in matters like this are pretty well stated in the arlington thread and elsewhere.

    you can comment to your heart's content on the state of their portfolio and their projects but your disregard for facts in the comments you so blithely direct at both businesses and individuals speaks to your ethics as much as theirs. emotion is not always the most stable base for accurate discussion or decision making.

    we are all endowed with two eyes and two ears and only one mouth for good reason...
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    "but your disregard for facts in the comments you so blithely direct at both businesses and individuals speaks to your ethics as much as theirs."

    while not arson, i have more than a few facts to back up my suggestive comments.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    Also heard Holt's closed it's door so it's precious cargo wouldn't get smelling like smoke, haha.
    I wouldn't blame Holt's for shutting down, it was probably a wise decision considering the direction of the wind. Manulife shut down it's entire air system because of the smoke, too.
    Strathcona City Separatist

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    you can comment to your heart's content on the state of their portfolio and their projects but your disregard for facts in the comments you so blithely direct at both businesses and individuals speaks to your ethics as much as theirs. emotion is not always the most stable base for accurate discussion or decision making.

    we are all endowed with two eyes and two ears and only one mouth for good reason...
    Not directly related to this discussion is your moralizing of some of the discussion and banter that is happening on this forum due to the reputation that Worthington has built up in the eyes of some. It is entirely normal that people would distrust a company that has a bad track record and being a "troubled local business" and possibly overstate or add conjecture on what were the possible causes of such an event.

    The only reason you would feel compelled to slap IanO's wrist on the matter is that you know that what he says could be taken as libelous and that somehow in our society this is now a new way to justify "not asking the tough questions" or easily cast moral indignation in the direction of the accuser. Really Worthington has no reason for us to trust them and they have all the explaining to do. I agree we shouldn't jump to conclusions and take a methodical approach to this, but human nature and our intuition can sometimes tell inform us in other ways. It makes people cautious and wary on purpose, and this is what you are experiencing in the discussion on this forum. It doesn't make it "unethical". We should reach out to people in their times of trouble, but that just isn't human nature in a circumstance like this.
    Last edited by GreenSPACE; 25-03-2009 at 12:23 PM.
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