Edmontonians views on the downtown - please read

[IanO]

I did an informal questionaire on another website where the people are generally 18-30 yrs of age and most are either young professionals or college/uni students. By no means is this scientific, but it was interesting to see the responses, concerns, and explainations.
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here is what i asked:

1. What do you think of the current state of downtown Edmonton? (feel, services, cleanliness, security etc.)


2. What would you like to see in the downtown that is not currently there that might bring you downtown more?


3. 1st three things that come to mind when you think of downtown Edmonton.

[IanO]

1. When I think of downtown Edmonton, I can't pick out one thing. It always seems a little dirty to me, there are very weird people, which does not make for the best atmosphere. There needs to be more shops in the middle area of downtown. There needs to be more of a middle area. Everything is focused mainly in the malls and along the jasper ave strip, but even then it is not a higher class community. I see many dirty areas, and shops that don't seem to care about their outer appearance. When I lived downtown, I liked how everything as pretty central, and in walking distance, but I did not like the areas I had to walk through to get anywhere. In other words, it is just not pretty or appealing to me.

2. I think downtown needs more trendy cafe's and shops outside of the malls. The fronts of the buildings can use a facelift as well, since they all seem very out of date and frankly, old. I know it is an older area of the city, but it represents our city, and it is definately in need of some work. I remember the days when I went downtown and say the professional looking, or well dressed people around. Now I see very little of that.

3. Three things I think of when it comes to downtown are dirty sidewalks, the homeless and ugly buildings.
Perhaps I was spoiled living in larger cities, and spending a lot of time in larger cities, but our downtown lacks atmosphere.

[IanO]

1) downtown closes at 5pm and is completely dead after. (yes yse it is ).

you have some real creapers downtown too (how many reports/warnings did i get when i wokred there of stalker freaks in parkades at night, people approaching women asking for gas money, etc.... more then i can remember). see, downtown is awesome from about 8am to 5pm, lots of good places to eat and shop and all that, activities going on all the time, but as soon as it hits 5pm, everywhere boards up and all thats left down there is a bunch of rough looking people. btw, during hte day theres still a lot of rough looking people everywhere...

downtown is also pretty dirty compared to calgary or vancouver. its dusty, grimmy and often has garbage blowing in the streets which is the absolute first thing that struck me when i moved back here from bc.

now i guess keep in mind i'm primarily talking about the area from 103 and jasper, and east of there, but thats where hte major office towers are, so should be the core and should be the most high class.

2) i would like to see no bums, hobos, squeegie kids, pan handlers, beggers, etc. Also, if places stayed open later, it would be cool and it might actually be a destination place.

3) bums, ghost town at 5pm, unsafe

[IanO]

1. Besides the few homeless people that harrass you for money, I feel safe in the downtown area. I find overall cleanliness is mediocre. I do work on Whyte Ave so everything I think of Downtown is relative - Downtown is cleaner with a lot less crazies

2. More parking in general and cheaper would be nice.

3. Three things?
1) Parking is a pain. And also expensive.
2) Avoid from morning rush hour and until after rush hour has settled down.
3) I can always find a similar or same-chain store/restaurant in the West End =)

[IanO]

1) similar to everyone else... d/t seems dirty.... Edmonton seems dirty in comparison overall.
............................................. decent services, but they're all tucked away... advertise! Get their names out!
............................................. security is decent (don't live there, so can't comment to much) but there's always police patroling around.
............................................. improve the business class level... more corporate head offices will help.

2) would like to see more events that bring attention to the d/t core... have more UNIQUE restaurants and stores (not the common mall stores)

3)... bums
...... garbage on street (especially with so many alley ways)
...... better night life... lounge style restaurants... i.e. move ceili's into the core more... bring some of that whyte ave night life to the jasper ave strip along with the shops.

Why did HENRY open up by shoppers off whyte instead of somewhere d/t? D/T should be the area that attracts the people wearing those clothes.
Young office professionals with good paying jobs and nothing better to spend their money on besides clothes, boozing/going out, and food.
Why was a pub like 1905 so dead on game nights that did not fall on the immediate after work hours time? That place should be busy for all sporting events!

[IanO]

I live in Calgary but have been to E-Town many times.

1. Dirty dirty dirty. It's like the bad part of Calgary downtown, but really big
2. Decent nightlife, better restaurants -- needs to feel safer first though
3. This reminds me of Forest Lawn. There sure are a lot of homeless people and beggars here. When can I go back to Calgary?

Yeah, I don't like Edmonton very much...

[IanO]

Werd! And i LOVE going to edmonton! Although everytime I go there is just seems dirty. More culture in the city core would be nice to see (and by that i don't mean more graffiti!) Maybe if the new and improving Whyte had a sister street in the Downtown area (comparable to Calgary's 17th)

Get rid of those seedy porn stores and "massage" parlors and peep show things that I remember seeing by the place where DTP was held a few years back.

The downtown mall is weaksauce too! I was shocked to see the Holt's look like a regular department store with junk laying everywhere (maybe it looks more classy now? I was last there a few years ago and won't go back due to its junky appearance!)
Maybe promote more "yuppie" culture...coffee shops, swanky bistros, martini lounges etc.

Just clean it up ...even the Chinatown looks more garbage-y than it should! LOL

[IanO]

Having lived in Edmonton for 3 years, here are my thoughts:

The main cause of the unattractiveness of the city is the commingling of industrial and non-industrial zones. The close proximity of "dirty stores" to the upscale neighbourhoods really puts a damper on people who are looking to dress up to go shopping.

For instance, beginning in East Jasper, you have dirty chinatown, then a 2 min drive brings you into an older part of downtown where there's a seedy 24 hour internet cafe across from a newer office building. A minute west brings you to an intersection where to the NW there's a nice stripmall to attend to the local condos (I've sat at the starbucks in that strip mall many times and get hassled by homeless about 1/4 of the time - which is way too much). In that intersection, you can walk 5 mins in each direction and get a way different feel of the city. If you walked towards the bridge, you'll pass by some older shops and a dirty mechanic, if you walked the other way, you'll hit grant macewan and a series of warehouses, east you get the seedy downtown, west you get a slightly trendy neighbourhood, but with an out of place auto dealer. Such a different atmosphere so close together!

All in all, it would be nice to be able to stroll to a nice store without having to walk along side shady looking people. For instance, if I was at Hardware Grill (or was it Jack's Grill) with a date, it'd be nice to be able to get to the nicer stores without having to get into the car and having to find parking on the other side of Jasper.

Anyway, the beautification of Edmonton downtown must begin with the re-organization of stores - maybe pushing away the shady ones. In addition, you'll need teams of people to pressure hose the sidewalks and walls of the buildings to make the place look cleaner, even simple things like updating the look of the garbage cans or hiring some homeless guys to pick up garbage.

Consider that people affluent people would usually like to spend money on restaurants, shopping, and maybe a short stroll in the park after. It is imperative for a successful downtown to keep the avenues between those places free of seedy places.

Another note is that there is a lack of entertainment or things to see down there. More stores, and longer hours for the stores, would change that a little.

[IanO]

1. What do you think of the current state of downtown Edmonton? (feel, services, cleanliness, security etc.)

Parking isn't that great, so nobody wants to shop down there, and when they do, they shop inside the mall, so it always looks dead. It's actually quite secure, but not clean at all in the spring, and Jasper has too many skeezy little businesses in the retail space outside. All the nice ones are inside. That's just the winter, I guess

2. What would you like to see in the downtown that is not currently there that might bring you downtown more?

In the past few years, the clubs have opened up, and while it picks up at night, there's all the bottles, ciggie butts & whatever, especially around the globe, the bank etc. The dual liscencing of places like that (food during the day, bar after 10 pm) doesn't seem to bring people in during the day. Jasper would look like Whyte Ave if there were actually parking available, but it's only available during the evenings for the bars, so . . .


3. 1st three things that come to mind when you think of downtown Edmonton.

Hobos sketchin' in parks, spare change lady and shopping carts.

[IanO]

So please just take it as a "word on the street" type of reply....but it is obvious that there are common concerns, common stereotypes, common misconceptions.


DBA et al.....this is the demo that you NEED coming downtown to make it more vibrant.....18-30's.....to live, work, and play.

We NEED to get more businesses to attract people, we need to market WHAT WE HAVE, and we need to make the downtown more visually attractive.

as for the parking concerns, i bet they dont complain paying for $10 parking to shop on robson when they holiday....

[RichardS]

DT Edmonton = Forest Lawn??????????????????????????????? WTF is that guy smoking????????????????????????????????????

I hear the other comments (more nightlife and more shops), but this guy....sheesh....

[Titanium48]

Originally Posted by RichardS

DT Edmonton = Forest Lawn??????????????????????????????? WTF is that guy smoking????????????????????????????????????

Yeah, confusing Jasper Av and 118 Av is a more than a bit of a stretch.

[ChrisD]

I found their comments fair, except for the Forest Lawn one.

I also find it really funny that people complain about the homeless, beggars and squeegie kids when these types of people exist in ALL major centers. More in others and believe me, Calgary has its fair share of homeless and don't even get me started on downtown Vancouver.

None the less, more needs to be done. I truly believe in time that things will improve as more parking lots are redeveloped into condos and office buildings.

But a massive clean-up and revitalization effort would be fantastic.

[IanO]

my replies:


1.homesless - an issue in any major centre and needs to be addressed at a municipal, prov, and fed level...and better policing to deal with aggressive, drunk, or disorderly people needed.

2.parking - parking downtown edmonton is EASY, CHEAP, and simple.....anyone complaining about parking is simply naive.

3.rundown/dirty - YES.....although improving, i still find the downtown is very dusty, garbage strewn, and blah. Where is the city on this issue...we dont need the downtown ambassadors picking it up, we need city crews emptying garbages more, power washing, street cleaning......honestly, how hard is it to have a street cleaner do the main parts of downtown once a night????

4. boring/dull/quiet - parts of it yes, but so are the CBD of van, tdot, cal et al. But i do agree we are way too "inside focussed"...******** on the winter argument, ever been to a northern city in finland, sweden, norway, et al.......great street life and shops focussed to the street. We NEED LIGHT and WINDOWS and active street presence.

5. DEAD after 5pm - similar to the above, but BS again.....many good restaurants are open, some great pubs, lounges etc. This is more that the same people who complain it is dead, drive straight home at 5pm......how about hanging around for a drink with coworkers, a bite with friends, etc.

CHOOSE DOWNTOWN to shop, drink, play, live, and it will become busier, just sit back in your ellerslie home with you walmart/costco products, and sip on your tim hortons drive thru coffee and downtown wont be better.

[RichardS]

Originally Posted by IanO

CHOOSE DOWNTOWN to shop, drink, play, live, and it will become busier, just sit back in your ellerslie home with you walmart/costco products, and sip on your tim hortons drive thru coffee and downtown wont be better.

DINGDINGDINGIDINGDING!!!!


Get this man a COOKIE.

[Titanium48]

As far as parking goes, yes it is much cheaper and more available in downtown Edmonton than in most other cities, but it less available and more expensive than parking in suburbia. Furthermore, more downtown retail and residential development will lead to less and more expensive parking. This is not a bad thing, but it is what leads (and will always lead) to parking complaints from suburbanites, who will not venture downtown unless and until it offers something they cannot find elsewhere. Downtown business will need to establish itself by marketing to downtown residents and people with good after hours transit service (ie. LRT). The city can do it's part by encouraging more downtown residential and improving LRT service. Fortunately these are both happening.

[KC]

"CHOOSE DOWNTOWN to shop, drink, play, live..."

You can sway a few with that argument but it's like the old attempts at "Buy Canadian". It rarely works well.

Just as, it's not up to me to tell a restaurant that they have poor food or service. It's THEIR business not mine. I simply don't return. It is my downtown, but how much do I spend or how long do I support it without seeing any attempts at improvement before I go elsewhere?

For years, I shopped at a few local neighbourhood stores despite their higher prices, but have found that things haven't improved because of any loyalty on my part - they've still allow dramatic delcined in the condition of their premises (cracked windows, bars on windows, overflowing garbage cans, flaking paint, dirt, etc.) I'm sure their view of any improved business due to my expenditures is very miopic - they see it as only having the correct product selection, opening hours, convenience or some such view. Definitely not a case of: 'Gee my customers come back in the hope that that loyalty will allow me to clean up my dumpy surroundings'.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Wait...parking is free in the suburbs but not downtown? And how is this different from other cities?

And dare I mention that the expensive and hard-to-find parking doesn't stop the same suburbanites from flocking to Whyte Ave?

[Titanium48]

Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey

Wait...parking is free in the suburbs but not downtown? And how is this different from other cities?

It's not different. And neither are the suburbanites that whine about it. I was just suggesting that the parking whiners are not the ones who will make downtown a happening place, although some of them will suck it up and pay for parking if and when downtown becomes a happening place.

Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey

And dare I mention that the expensive and hard-to-find parking doesn't stop the same suburbanites from flocking to Whyte Ave?

Parking is not all that scarce in Old Strathcona. There's lots of free parking on the adjacent streets within a block or two of wherever you want to go. I've never paid for parking in Old Strathcona, even during the Fringe (although then you usually need to walk 3 or 4 blocks).

[North Guy66]

1. What do you think of the current state of downtown Edmonton? (feel, services, cleanliness, security etc.)

The panhadlers don't bother me as much. I see more panhandlers and creepers on Whyte avenue, even they know where the action is.

Rice Howard Way used to be a happening place with at least four restaurant/bar patios. It had a Whyte avenue atmosphere even before Whyte ave. became hip. Today it is dead zone.

124 street has overtaken downtown for coolness.


2. What would you like to see in the downtown that is not currently there that might bring you downtown more?


- Bring the stores to the street. Similar to Julio's Barrio and Marco's Famous Burgers on Whyte, open up the store front to the pedestrian traffic. Make the stores more inviting. It would be great if somehow Sunterra Market in Commerce Place can have more exposure at street level, remember Debaji's on the southside?

- Make use of open areas like the southside of the library and the vast concrete between the Telus building and the main bus stop. Hundreds of people use the bus stop across from the Macdonald Hotel everyday. Imagine having a farmers/flea market or an arts and craft exhibit behind the bus shelter.

- Remove the ugly green and metallic kiosks used to hang events posters. They are on every street corner along Jasper avenue. More often than not, there is a busted payphone in them. The goal is to create openess, instead the sidewalks are choked off.


3. 1st three things that come to mind when you think of downtown Edmonton.

- impersonal
- concrete monolith
- Only go there to visit the lawyer or accountant.

[ChrisD]

1. What do you think of the current state of downtown Edmonton? (feel, services, cleanliness, security etc.)

Panhandlers don't bother me at all. It's part of the program in every downtown.....deal with it.

2. What would you like to see in the downtown that is not currently there that might bring you downtown more?


Although I do frequent downtown almost on a daily basis, it would be wise to bring in more stores that aren't downtown - Mexx, Banana Republic, etc.

More active storefronts along Jasper Avenue is crucial!! It's getting there, but there needs to be more critical mass. Increased density and development will help solve this.

3. 1st three things that come to mind when you think of downtown Edmonton.

Good shopping (Holts, Henry Singer), Churchill Square, Cultural facilities.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

1. What do you think of the current state of downtown Edmonton? (feel, services, cleanliness, security etc.)

I've lived and worked downtown for many years now. I've seen it go from lively on weekends to completely dead, and now it's starting to pick up again. It's in a much better state than 10 years ago, but there's a ways to go.

And no, panhandlers aren't an issue with me, I've encountered worse in other cities. I can still do without them though.

2. What would you like to see in the downtown that is not currently there that might bring you downtown more?

- More people strolling the streets after hours
- more stores, restaurants, coffee shops, bars and entertainment venues that stay open after 6 PM
- more pedestrian-friendly areas
- High Level streetcar extended along Jasper Ave to the Shaw Conference Center
- cool and unique multi-use developments replacing parking lots and the old Saveco
- ashtrays
- daily street cleaners
- higher-quality multiplex like Silver City or SEC
- hardware store

3. 1st three things that come to mind when you think of downtown Edmonton.
skyline
green street signs
alive on weekdays, quiet otherwise

[IanO]

"Rice Howard Way used to be a happening place with at least four restaurant/bar patios. It had a Whyte avenue atmosphere even before Whyte ave. became hip. Today it is dead zone. "


are you kidding? I frequent it at lunch and it is usually PACKED...and there are plenty of nice patios...

-cosmos
-sherlock holmes
-nikitas
-cocodi's
-renior's

even on weekends there is decent crowd from hotels

what we need there is a nice live music venue for weekends or a lounge that brings in the young prof.

[North Guy66]

Well, I should of put a disclaimer "besides weekday lunchtime".

I admit I have not been there for over 7 months but I still feel there is no energy there.

[IanO]

Originally Posted by North Guy66

Well, I should of put a disclaimer "besides weekday lunchtime".

I admit I have not been there for over 7 months but I still feel there is no energy there.

^february is top patio season, how couldnt it be packed?

there is definately room for more energy, lights, promotion....but it is kinda nice and quiet imo