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Great Ideas for A Greater Edmonton Do you have an idea that you feel could help enhance Edmonton's image, profile or reputation? Small or large, dramatic or subtle, we want to hear from you! Community projects, solutions to problems, ideas about improvements to Edmonton, or neat new directions for the area, post them all here.


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Old 28-06-2006, 10:51 AM   #1
Sonic Death Monkey
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Default High Street/124 St

I took a walk through there the other day. This neighborhood is another Old Strathcona in the making with some cool furniture stores, boutiques, record shops, and some restaurants (in fact several businesses have migrated from Whyte to 124). However, it still seems barren, devoid of life and not very pedestrian-friendly for the most part. I talked about High Street early on, but I think it warrants its own thread.

What needs to be addressed:

- restaurants, bars and coffee shops with outdoor patios. I can't think of anything better to encourage pedestrian traffic.

- speaking of bars and coffee shops, where are they? I'm sure nobody would object to a Starbucks or another Second Cup (other than the one at 102 Ave) - like them or not, they do attract people. And while I'm not advocating another Electric Avenue, a couple of nightclubs wouldn't hurt.

- parking, or lack of.

- when the museum is redeveloped, it should integrate its proximity within the area a bit more because they are targeting it to be a major provincial attraction. Right now it seems too hidden away.

- more trees for the strip around 107 Ave.

- live theatre and other entertainment venues.

- residential access isn't a concern, although a satellite post-secondary education institution wouldn't hurt. Nor would artists' lofts.
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Old 28-06-2006, 11:44 AM   #2
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I agree with you on developing the area more. i want to point out 3 upper end restaurants at exactly that spot you speak of, a few more restaurants that would not break your bank if you decide to partake in some of their delicious food (Matahari for one deserves a rave post) and a pub at High street as well. In your list of coffee shops, you have neglected to notice Steeps and another one across from MEC (and Second Cup) that sells ice cream. I agree with you completely that there should be more coffee shops lining up 124th towards 107 ave. I would not want to see a build-up of night clubs there. I would much rather this area continue to develop into more of an art gallery row. We already have nightclubs sprouting along Jasper. I think that area is much more suited for that kind of development. A few more, and the area will finally be able to ease the pressure on Whyte to entertain the entire city on a saturday night. As for theatre, isn't there one or two on 107th? I would want to see more, of course, but an expansion of the gallery walk combined with the nearby upgraded royal museum will serve the city and the area very well.
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Old 28-06-2006, 12:03 PM   #3
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I frankly think that 124th should outshine Whyte by a country mile. The sheer narrowness of 124th is far more condusive to a true ped-oriented strip. Think 17th Av or the Kensington area of Calgary, or Davie/Denman/Robson in Vancouver.

Whyte might as well be a landing strip, it's so bloody wide.
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Old 28-06-2006, 12:12 PM   #4
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great street....


there are lots of "hidden gems" or just plain things people dont know of.

Ginger clothing on 124st north of jasper at the bend is amazing....but most if not all people i know havent heard of it and they carry lines not found in edmonton.

same with red strap (i think thats the name) under starbucks....amazing, but again...not known.

to get this area going we need:

-a highrise condo with retail on jasper and 124st corner
-more densification just off 124st

-more brand name to attract business to smaller stores.

-parking is there...just need to find it.
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Old 28-06-2006, 12:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanO
to get this area going we need:

-a highrise condo with retail on jasper and 124st corner
-more densification just off 124st
I would rather the street alignment were changed to get that 90 degree turn out of there. i would be happy with two 45 degree turns (the road to cut through what is now the parking lot for the furniture store annex. or, better yet, make a small traffic circle with a central fountain and lots of flower beds. i think public fountains is what this city definitely lacks.
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Old 28-06-2006, 12:28 PM   #6
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personally i like the 90....it gives such a huge opportunity for an interesting corner tower with retail and raised patio with views views views.
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Old 28-06-2006, 01:22 PM   #7
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Are you guys talking about the turn from Jasper Ave to 124, or the intersection at 124 St and 102 Ave?

I quite like the sharp turn at J-Ave. They just need to do something about that empty building on the corner (used to be a 7-11 years ago).

The latter is an annoying intersection. Two lanes turning west from 124 St NB onto 102 Ave and the left-turn light only occurs briefly at the end of the green light. grish's idea of a traffic circle with a central fountain might be nice there!
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Old 28-06-2006, 01:30 PM   #8
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the fountain could go at 124 and 102, but i was speaking of the 124 meet Jasper corner. btw, the "7-11" is now occupied with a furniture store, and no, i do not like driving the 90-degree turn as there are a lot of people who don't quite have control of their cars and end up cutting corners by going into the opposite lane a little bit.
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Old 28-06-2006, 01:37 PM   #9
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/\ I think they did do something about that building, it's now an extension of McKelleran's (sp?) furniture.

Is that the same location that you're talking about...used to be a liquor store also?
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Old 28-06-2006, 02:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey
Are you guys talking about the turn from Jasper Ave to 124, or the intersection at 124 St and 102 Ave?

I quite like the sharp turn at J-Ave. They just need to do something about that empty building on the corner (used to be a 7-11 years ago).

The latter is an annoying intersection. Two lanes turning west from 124 St NB onto 102 Ave and the left-turn light only occurs briefly at the end of the green light. grish's idea of a traffic circle with a central fountain might be nice there!
I like the turn...but as grish says, the drivers leave something to be questioned. I can't believe that they do not know the size of their own cars...and others here think drivers "know" the design limits of roads as far as speed... - they can't even judge how to turn!

AAAAAANYWAY...

124 is so my neighborhood now. I love the street and I agree, it has HUGE potential. It could be what Whyte was SUPPOSED to be...
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Old 28-06-2006, 06:00 PM   #11
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I live near 124th street just north of the empty Charles Camsell Hospital. I'm waiting to see the hospital and surrounding environs transformed into a medium density pedestrian orientated neighbourhood within Inglewood. The more people living around 124th street the better. On a side note, an empty lot on 118 Ave. near Inglewood Pub is being redevloped into commercial space! Yay!
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Old 28-06-2006, 07:11 PM   #12
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I wasn't thinking of Inglewood because, like most people, I am guilty of considering High Street to be 124 St from Jasper Ave to about 111 Ave. But Inglewood could use a revitalization too.
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Old 28-06-2006, 11:44 PM   #13
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Anyway, other comments on 124 St:

- The row of all-glass retail beside Boston Pizza looks interesting.

- The area between 107 Ave and 109 Ave should be renamed "Little Greece" if it hasn't been done so already - two Greek restaurants, a Greek church, a Greek social club and a Greek grocery. It's also part of the strip which is closest to that Old Strathcona feel.

- grish: I wasn't advocating a row of nightclubs. But I still think just 2 or 3 upscale clubs, wine bars or pubs wouldn't hurt, but cap the number of them that can setup there. Let's face it, most of 124th is dead after 6 PM except for the restaurants that bother to stay open for dinner - restaurants, coffee shops and bars will bring after-hours life, preferably for a 30+ demographic.

- my favorite complaint: quickie loan stops on this street. Jesus, how many of these f***ing places does this city need??

- there are a couple of discrepit flophouse-ish apartments on 124th which should be spruced up.

- the rows of art galleries could be better promoted as a whole.
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Old 29-06-2006, 02:52 AM   #14
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One of the issues that needs to be addressed is the few blocks from 102nd Ave up to about 106th or 107th there which offers little draw to have foot traffic along them. It really disrupts the flow of 124th.
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Old 29-06-2006, 08:21 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey
Anyway, other comments on 124 St:

(...)

- The area between 107 Ave and 109 Ave should be renamed "Little Greece" if it hasn't been done so already - two Greek restaurants, a Greek church, a Greek social club and a Greek grocery. It's also part of the strip which is closest to that Old Strathcona feel.
Certainly. Why not?

Quote:

- my favorite complaint: quickie loan stops on this street. Jesus, how many of these f***ing places does this city need??
AAAAAAAAMEN!!!! What is it with these places? They spring up everywhere in every city...interesting social commentary.

Quote:

- the rows of art galleries could be better promoted as a whole.
...and the flower shop. If you really want to impress, flowers from Vicotr Michaels always work!
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Old 29-06-2006, 10:23 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey
- my favorite complaint: quickie loan stops on this street. Jesus, how many of these f***ing places does this city need??
A form of retail that Edmonton does VERY well. I would never live in an area that has those things. Says buckets about the local dynamic.
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Old 29-06-2006, 01:07 PM   #17
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Hell, there are more Money Marts than bank branches in this burg.
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Old 29-06-2006, 06:41 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey
- my favorite complaint: quickie loan stops on this street. Jesus, how many of these f***ing places does this city need??
A form of retail that Edmonton does VERY well. I would never live in an area that has those things. Says buckets about the local dynamic.
All public streets that have mixed housing and that have been abandoned by the major banks have the cash shops. As the area rents get higher, they tend to move away. 124th St. borders on Glenora, Oliver and old Westmount. Pretty high property values and good places to live.
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Old 29-06-2006, 11:04 PM   #19
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There is a law prohibiting anyone from charging interest higher than 60% per year on loans. The "quickie loan stops" charge far more, and would mostly disappear if the law were enforced.
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Old 29-06-2006, 11:22 PM   #20
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The quickie loan concept is one of the dumbest business plans out there. These shops seem to cater to whose who don't know better or are addicted to drugs.

Sorry for saying it like it is...
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Old 30-06-2006, 08:19 AM   #21
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Regardless of who they cater to...they exist and do make money...
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Old 03-07-2006, 12:25 PM   #22
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fair enough. These loan places are here for the time being. But back to developing 124st. I like SDM's suggestion for giving the area a cultural flavor like "Little Greece". upscale clubs, piano bars, and little coffee shops would work well too. this city needs more "walkable" space for browsing that goes beyond WEM.
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Old 27-08-2006, 01:13 PM   #23
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What this neighborhood really needs to give it the proverbial boot-up-the-arse is a festival.

The Fringe helped revitalize Old Strathcona, so perhaps High Street needs its own big-name festival (new or existing) to attract both citizens and visitors.

For example they could nove the International Film Fest there, or at the very least include the Roxy Theatre as a major cog.

With all of the art galleries along 124 St, wouldn't it make more sense to have the Works and part of the Art Walk held there?

Or how about moving the Gay Pride parade to 124th?
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Old 27-08-2006, 01:33 PM   #24
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Cairweset festival started out on 124th st. but they moved downtown to get more exposure. The artwalk is a great mini festival because they have horse drawn carts going up & down 124th st. moving art viewers from gallery to gallery.
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Old 03-12-2006, 02:59 PM   #25
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Fantastic ideas people! I would love to see 124 st as the next arts/food/entertainment district. There are already a few hidden gems on the strip as a great base. We moved to the area (WAHA) when we emigrated from Vancouver 2 years ago, and this area could really have a commercial ave feel, if not better.

You see 124 st facelifts slowly happening; my understanding is that the city is offering renovation funding for any businesses to increase curb appeal as well as encourage further development. Anybody know anything about this?
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Old 03-12-2006, 06:15 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glasshead
You see 124 st facelifts slowly happening; my understanding is that the city is offering renovation funding for any businesses to increase curb appeal as well as encourage further development. Anybody know anything about this?
Yes. If you're interested, contact the BRZ.
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Old 05-12-2006, 04:31 PM   #27
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having just moved to the 124 st area from 9 years in the old strathcona area, I feel I can add useful comments to this discussion.

124 street is NOT whyte ave for several reasons. First, there is a healthy young population around whyte ave feeding the U of A and adding life to the street. 124 street has mostly 30 something and older and retired residents who don't use the street level services as much. as you move north towards norwood, you move into moderate density lower income residences that may not have the money or community spirit to contribute to the local area.

Next, 124 street has too many infill professional buildings/centres and too few services and interesting shops which makes the stroll from interesting store to interesting store/restaurant to far to manage, especially for the older population dynamic.

Also, someone mentioned that there are no fesitvals in this area, which also gives it a much lower profile. there is an artist studio on 112 street i believe, but too far from 124 st to make an impact.

124 street has a similar store front dynamic and could be so much more than it is. I believe there is lots of potential for this area, but residents need to take ahold of this by supporting local businesses rather than driving to the nearest box store to save a doller or two.
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Old 05-12-2006, 04:38 PM   #28
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" and this area could really have a commercial ave feel, if not better."

YUPPERS!.....


"124 street has a similar store front dynamic and could be so much more than it is. I believe there is lots of potential for this area, but residents need to take ahold of this by supporting local businesses rather than driving to the nearest box store to save a doller or two."

yuppers!....


Most people i know dont even know of a single store, hold MEC in this area and im always trying to tell them to walk it.

This street from jasper to 111ave ish has a HUGE potential.....id like to see some more infill and a bit more 4-5 storey condo development for young proff and young families.

HUGE
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Old 05-12-2006, 04:55 PM   #29
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The area does have "HUGE" potential! Something about having that gem Roxy theatre with so little action in this area that is maddening. This area has plenty of terrific restaurants - Koutoki, Cafe Manor, Blue Pear (123st), Glenora Grill, cafe De-Ville, BP's (ok I guess), to name a few.

Lofts and Condos along this strip would really encourage a walk-friendly area, as more anemities would pop up alleviating the problem of distance between shops at the moment. There are plenty of old apartments in between jasper and 111ave that could be demolished in my opinion, along with those cash stores.

This area is quickly becoming one of the more popular ones, and I believe there would be high demand for 124 st condos or lofts.

By the way, anyone know what's coming up at the NW corner of 111 ave and 124 st (kittie corner to Petro-can)? I thought it was a condo???
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Old 05-12-2006, 05:16 PM   #30
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ive always thought of 124st as a west 4th potential from van but commercial also works.
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Old 05-12-2006, 11:02 PM   #31
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The only thing I would like to see on 124th St is a really nice pub.... the kind with every single malt in the known universe, a decent menu, and servers who have been to Dublin to learn how to pour a Guinness.

In my happy little delusional world, that pub will be in the basement of the new 30 storey mixed use tower at the corner of 104th Ave and 124th St... (the basement that is attached to the underground LRT to WEM, the last stop before the connector to the expanded North South Freeway BRT station at Groat Rd)... minutes from my home...
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Old 06-12-2006, 11:25 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m0nkyman
The only thing I would like to see on 124th St is a really nice pub.... the kind with every single malt in the known universe, a decent menu, and servers who have been to Dublin to learn how to pour a Guinness.

In my happy little delusional world, that pub will be in the basement of the new 30 storey mixed use tower at the corner of 104th Ave and 124th St... (the basement that is attached to the underground LRT to WEM, the last stop before the connector to the expanded North South Freeway BRT station at Groat Rd)... minutes from my home...
Great Idea! On another forum regarding the VIA/greyhound terminal up at the yellowhead, I suggested it was a great location if the 121 Street corrider was used as LRT linking with the east-west corrider along 104 ave.

by the way, the pub thing...I'd be frequenting that water hole, I'm close to it.
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Old 06-12-2006, 01:27 PM   #33
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For a good example of Pub like that, see St. James Gate in Banff.... tons of beer on tap (30-40 if I'm not mistaken) and great authentic Irish fare. It puts the Druid to shame.
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Old 06-12-2006, 04:21 PM   #34
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Quote:
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For a good example of Pub like that, see St. James Gate in Banff.... tons of beer on tap (30-40 if I'm not mistaken) and great authentic Irish fare. It puts the Druid to shame.
:P
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Old 23-01-2007, 11:06 PM   #35
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I've owned a business on 124th st for more than seven years so this thread definitely resonates within me. Here are some of my insights:

a) Everyone keeps mentioning the "potential". A word very close to my heart. If it wasn't for my firm belief in the incredible potential of the area, I would have skipped out ages ago (and believe me, there were many moons when I was the only retail shop on the block).

The good news: as a person (foolishly?) clinging to the potential for so many years, I can happily report that there has been a discernable shift in the energy of the area (or at least my block) and I think our progress towards the fulfillment of that potential is going to roll out exponentially.

2) It's been my dream to have a 124th st festival! The Fringe is what changed Whyte Ave into what it is today (remember when Whyte was filled with junk shops and tumbleweeds?) and I feel very strongly that a festival could have the same effect on our street.

3) There is a city facade renovation program for BRZs (124st included). In fact, my business is going through the facade reno program right now, and hope to unveil the big changes in a couple of months. Expect great things!

4) If all goes according to plan, this year you'll see big improvements to the facades of all the buildings along my block though...

5) the ulitimate dream would be to tear down the whole block and build a beautiful, green, mixed-used complex instead

6) Also can't wait for the day when someone hitches up the Ford and tears down those crack-den sh*t-shacks on the corner of 124 & 104.

Actually, now that I think of it, I remember from a few years ago about how there was desire and initiative to redevelop that site but one of the buisness owners on the property was blocking the progress.

7) I LOVE the idea of "Little Greece" and will suggest it to the BRZ Board.

That's it for now. HTH.
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Old 24-01-2007, 10:26 AM   #36
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I would suggest re-zoning to limit the development of residential on 124 st as this tends to break up the flow of going from one shop to another like we see on whyte. There are many eyesores on 124 that could use some fixing up. It wouldn't take much. what does the 124 st. business association have to say about all this?
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Old 24-01-2007, 11:02 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by snakes on a blog
I would suggest re-zoning to limit the development of residential on 124 st as this tends to break up the flow of going from one shop to another like we see on whyte. There are many eyesores on 124 that could use some fixing up. It wouldn't take much. what does the 124 st. business association have to say about all this?
If you really want 124th to flourish, you're going to need ground level retail and residential above. We're not talking hi-rises here...
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Old 24-01-2007, 11:34 AM   #38
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Zero setbacks, retail, and some residential above. Keep the character of lots of small buildings; buildings that are owner occupied will keep 124th St. unique.
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Old 24-01-2007, 04:40 PM   #39
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I could see this area developing further, but really north of Jasper, there's really only a block or two around the Roxy Theatre that's interesting right now. And those are the short blocks. Whyte Ave has at least 4 or 5 good 'long' blocks east to west.

I say after Boyle street downtown, the city should focus on this area next with some of the things you've outlined.
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Old 24-01-2007, 09:50 PM   #40
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Before Boyle Street. 124th already feels safe and it already has a lot more draw than East jasper.
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Old 26-01-2007, 10:45 AM   #41
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update: the Rosie's all you can eat for under 4.99 on 124 st and 103 ave looks like it's closed down for good. as of last night i saw temporary fencing surrounding the property. demolition perhaps? maybe a decent irish-theme pub?
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Old 26-01-2007, 12:53 PM   #42
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Thank god...that place was so run down...
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Old 10-03-2007, 10:02 AM   #43
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Didn't find anything in the architecture forum - perhaps this post might fit better there?

I was walking in the area and saw the development application signage associated with 3 houses that sit directly on the bank between 124st - 125 st & Jasper Ave - calls for 2 towers, 11 stories/6 stories (max) with the taller designated as the most easterly placement. Any updates/renderings?

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Old 12-03-2007, 12:25 PM   #44
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I know of a development of that type on 102 ave and 125 street. That one has been up for a while as the residents try to block any more moves to build condominium towers like the one behind High Street.
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Old 12-03-2007, 12:32 PM   #45
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there are renderings out...it is by Concert Properties of Vancouver and is approved...


it is more like 3 towers sloping down from east to west and looks like a ski lodge, but should end up being quite nice.
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Old 12-03-2007, 12:41 PM   #46
murman
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Originally Posted by IanO
there are renderings out...it is by Concert Properties of Vancouver and is approved...


it is more like 3 towers sloping down from east to west and looks like a ski lodge, but should end up being quite nice.
Concert does very nice product. I expect good things from this project.
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Old 12-03-2007, 12:47 PM   #47
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there are renderings out...it is by Concert Properties of Vancouver and is approved...


it is more like 3 towers sloping down from east to west and looks like a ski lodge, but should end up being quite nice.

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Old 12-03-2007, 08:47 PM   #48
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What views...just go by that site and have a look out over the valley, you can see the flats of Hawrelak with its giant white tent popping out and the river running by. Its pretty breath taking.
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Old 06-04-2007, 11:10 AM   #49
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In reguards to more Starbucks and Second Cup's I completly disagree. Nothing would be unique about a neigborhood with these buisness's in it. I think we need more family run cafe's and eateries because that is what makes a neigborhood. We need personality that reflects where we live. We need to know the owners in the places we enjoy the company of our friends in and we need to know that the money we spend is really going to someone who is part of our neigborhood and not to some headquarters in the United States or Toronto. Little shopping boutiques are so much better then big ones. Bringing in another Starbucks would be the same as choosing a Gap rather then a Red Ribbon. White Ave started out this way and thats why it was special. We have the boutique thing right now lets get the coffee thing right. I always go to Bueno Gelato for my coffee. There is much more warmth there then the Second Cup across the street. And the coffee is exellent!
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Old 06-04-2007, 11:19 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Lindy
In reguards to more Starbucks and Second Cup's I completly disagree. Nothing would be unique about a neigborhood with these buisness's in it. I think we need more family run cafe's and eateries because that is what makes a neigborhood. We need personality that reflects where we live. We need to know the owners in the places we enjoy the company of our friends in and we need to know that the money we spend is really going to someone who is part of our neigborhood and not to some headquarters in the United States or Toronto. Little shopping boutiques are so much better then big ones. Bringing in another Starbucks would be the same as choosing a Gap rather then a Red Ribbon. White Ave started out this way and thats why it was special. We have the boutique thing right now lets get the coffee thing right. I always go to Bueno Gelato for my coffee. There is much more warmth there then the Second Cup across the street. And the coffee is exellent!
Welcome to C2E Lindy and thank you for the insight!
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Old 06-04-2007, 11:34 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Lindy
In reguards to more Starbucks and Second Cup's I completly disagree. Nothing would be unique about a neigborhood with these buisness's in it. I think we need more family run cafe's and eateries because that is what makes a neigborhood. We need personality that reflects where we live. We need to know the owners in the places we enjoy the company of our friends in and we need to know that the money we spend is really going to someone who is part of our neigborhood and not to some headquarters in the United States or Toronto. Little shopping boutiques are so much better then big ones. Bringing in another Starbucks would be the same as choosing a Gap rather then a Red Ribbon. White Ave started out this way and thats why it was special. We have the boutique thing right now lets get the coffee thing right. I always go to Bueno Gelato for my coffee. There is much more warmth there then the Second Cup across the street. And the coffee is exellent!
I discovered the Bueno Gelato because there was no place to sit at the Second Cup at 102 Ave/124 St. And that's exactly my point. 124 St needs more people, and those small neighborhood businesses need more customers in order to thrive and prosper. Attracting more of the smaller and unique retail concepts to replace the Money Marts and flophouses won't hurt either. One way (among others) is to allow certain franchises to lure people into the neighborhood and then let them discover the gems around them. Limit those franchises only to those that will blend into the neighborhood and won't kill the existing businesses but complement them. Second Cup and Starbucks would fall into that category, and Chapters/Indigo to a lesser extent. Anyway, it's just one idea among others on how to make this truly a destination neighborhood like Old Strathcona.
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Old 06-04-2007, 11:50 AM   #52
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Sounds good, I never thought of it like that. The Chapters would probably kill at least 75% of Greenwoods buisness though. People who aren't in tune with independent buisness don't know how important it is would definently go to the Chapters. Wouldn't it be great if another small book store moved in along with three used book stores and we became not only known as the Art Gallery area but the area for Book shopping too. Ahhh... I would love that!
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Old 06-04-2007, 11:51 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Lindy
Sounds good, I never thought of it like that. The Chapters would probably kill at least 75% of Greenwoods buisness though. People who aren't in tune with independent buisness don't know how important it is would definently go to the Chapters. Wouldn't it be great if another small book store moved in along with three used book stores and we became not only known as the Art Gallery area but the area for Book shopping too. Ahhh... I would love that!
^ Me too!
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Old 06-04-2007, 12:04 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by DanC
What views...just go by that site and have a look out over the valley, you can see the flats of Hawrelak with its giant white tent popping out and the river running by. Its pretty breath taking.
It sure is.
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Old 06-04-2007, 12:32 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by djgirl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindy
Sounds good, I never thought of it like that. The Chapters would probably kill at least 75% of Greenwoods buisness though. People who aren't in tune with independent buisness don't know how important it is would definently go to the Chapters. Wouldn't it be great if another small book store moved in along with three used book stores and we became not only known as the Art Gallery area but the area for Book shopping too. Ahhh... I would love that!
^ Me too!
Sound good??? I think this thread might have shifted a bit but I'll need some help to get me off of this particular bus...

Who are we going to be comfortable with telling us "who" can do "what" and "where"? This is not a zoning issue - you are now effectively advocating personal discrimination even if you assume delegating it to some sort of public body to implement. There is a fundamental difference between "what/where" and "who".

Who is to say if djgirl's new book store would be "great" beside lindy's book store or not? The City or djgirl or lindy... and how would they determine that? Is it all right if djgirls's new book store is 2,300 sf but not all right if it's 2,400 sf even if the building she owns or wants to rent is 2,400 sf? Is it all right if it is djgirl's first book store but not her second? Is it different if djgirl lives in Edmonton or Morinville?

We have to effectively implement good zoning to nurture the kinds of neighborhoods we live in and we have to do a better job in encouraging more sensitive built forms and activities. I love and frequent Zocalo's for coffee or flowers etc. more than the multi-nationals. Under some circumstances however, all of our decision making criteria are not always the same and we should be entitled to make those choices on our own.

I do not want someone else making these kinds of decisions and choices for me so unless both you and I are prepared to have me make all of them with no right of appeal for anyone else, this is not the way to develop the kind of city we want.

Ken
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Old 06-04-2007, 04:17 PM   #56
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I just walked down 124th street and went into an antique shop that is closing down because at the end of the lease the rent has doubled. This is the second one to go. The one on the corner of 105ave and 124st had to leave also because the rent doubled. Money, Money, Money makes an ugly world. I simply do not accept that I will have more choice when my neigborhood is filled with multi-nationals and all the little owners whom I can see and talk to can't afford to stay. I can't tell anyone "who" or "what" because Im just one person. There is no threat of me deciding who is allowed into the neigborhood I live in because that is pretty much left to how much money the landlords want to make. The best I can do is care and participate in a discussion about it.
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Old 06-04-2007, 04:57 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Lindy
...I can't tell anyone "who" or "what" because Im just one person. There is no threat of me deciding who is allowed into the neigborhood I live in because that is pretty much left to how much money the landlords want to make. The best I can do is care and participate in a discussion about it.
Lindy,

Firstly, wecome to C2E by the way if anyone has not done that yet.

Secondly, do not sell yourself or your decisions or your actions "short". One by one we do indeed determine "who" or "what" by the choices we make. Your individual decisions or actions this afternoon on your walk are part of an overall community's decisions and actions and you may be the first "ripple" or the final "tipping point" but you are certainly not excluded from the process.

If twenty or two hundred or two thousand individuals decide to purchase their Christmas tree or Channukah bush from Zocalo's next year instead of from WalMart, they - and their landlord if they do not own the building - will continue to give you the streetscape you want to walk along because they will be able to afford it. That is part of our return when we shop there and at stores like theirs.

Your caring and participation are not inconsequential either. Just don't stop because everything doesn't happen at once or because we sometimes take two steps forward and one step back or because things aren't as black and white as we would like them to be.

You have already today had others respond to your thoughts and to post theirs in return. This discourse has been and will continue to be read by others and will be thought about and discussed... that is no small accomplishment on your part even without complete agreement. Besides, it would be a pretty boring community where everybody agreed on everything.

Ken
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Old 07-04-2007, 11:36 PM   #58
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I just walked down 124th street and went into an antique shop that is closing down because at the end of the lease the rent has doubled. This is the second one to go. The one on the corner of 105ave and 124st had to leave also because the rent doubled.
...
because that is pretty much left to how much money the landlords want to make.
While I'm not familiar with the specific cases you cite, I have had a similar experience. But I found that the term rent often encompasses other operating expenses including common area costs, taxes, licenses and fees. If it's a large increase at the end of a lease it may be that the monthly rent cheque includes a flat rate for utilities and taxes - and we all know how those have gone in the past few years.
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