Remember Me?
Home Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Politics Politics involves and affects all of us, whether it’s at the federal, provincial or civic level, or a combination of all three. Discuss policy issues, civic issues, social issues, financial issues, and legislation that affects Edmonton here.


Go Back   Connect2Edmonton > Regional Issues > Politics
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-06-2007, 07:36 AM   #1
DebraW
Addicted to C2E
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Default Council bleeds the taxpayers

Council bleeds the taxpayers

Edmonton Sun, June 01, 2007
POV By Neil Waugh


The latest Environics Research Focus Alberta survey shone a glaring spotlight on the growing disconnect between Edmontonians and civic politicians.

People identified the city's three top challenges as housing (16%), crime (12%) and infrastructure (10%).

Anyone following the antics of city council in recent months would have no clue that these are Edmontonians' major priorities.

The housing issue, in particular, should be worrisome to Mayor Stephen Mandel and council in an election year, when many people are under significant financial pressure from the boom and from cynical landlords who are jacking up rents or pushing through condominium conversions.

Last week, the message may have finally sunk in when council announced homeowner grants for seniors.

But like most things coming from city hall, they have strings attached.

People only get them if they qualify for the provincial government's senior's benefit. And there's only one $63 cheque per household. It hardly seems worth it, considering council will claw it back in the property tax hike, which hit an outrageous 20% in some neighbourhoods. That's a far cry from the 7% jump that Mandel and council were earlier promoting.

But the bleeding doesn't stop there. Over the years, various city councils have engaged in the cynical and deceptive practice of stripping more and more municipal services from the general tax base and moving them over to user fees.

Nobody is fooled by this sleight of hand - least of all, seniors.

The cost of living in Edmonton has gone up substantially. And it's reflected in the Environics poll that says housing is the No. 1 concern facing Edmontonians.

That's unless you are an insulated city councillor who believes a new arena, silly entrance signs, a half-billion-dollar expansion of the river valley park and an art gallery staircase are the top priorities of the taxpayers.

And council's $63 gesture is more an insult than a solution.

--30--
DebraW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2007, 08:10 AM   #2
m0nkyman
Addicted to C2E
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ottawa
Default

What are the qualifications for a Sun columnist. You would think that even a cursory understanding of how municipal taxation works would be required. Yes. Some people got hit with a 20% increase. Without the 7% increase in the mill rate they still would have been hit with an increase. Their house exceeded the average in increase of value.

Housing and infrastructure are a funding problem whose root is in the provincial government, and crime happens in boom towns. Yes, they're concerns. but I am getting tired of hearing this crap. They're not the exclusive concerns, and frankly are near the bottom of my list.
m0nkyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2007, 09:21 AM   #3
Sonic Death Monkey
Addicted to C2E
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Downtown
Default

Waugh fails to mention that the housing and infrastructure pressures are the result of his beloved Tory government's cut-and-slash from 10 years ago and their current inability to manage the boom.

The SUN should stick to their car ads and sunshine girls.
Sonic Death Monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2007, 09:47 AM   #4
bobinedmonton
Addicted to C2E
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Default They are NOT experts

These journalists are not experts, they offer opinions. Unfortunately, sometimes their opinions are ill-conceived and often ill informed. A discerning reader will understand this and do his own research.

Having said that, there is (in my opinion) a very serious problem with how city administration performs simple tasks. Paving a section of road should NOT take an entire summer. And more importantly, that section of road should NOT be dug up again the following summer by one of several public utilities. You would think that a coordinated effort by all involved would produce an efficient public works project.

And we KNOW that the LRT needs to be extended both north and south and possibly west. Do it. Stop studying it.

And we KNOW that Bus Ways are easy to implement on the roadways with wide centre medians. Do it. Stop studying it. And stop allowing lone dissenters from individual neighbourhoods to delay entire projects just because they can.

And we don't need fancy signs welcoming people to Edmonton, a sign that says "Welcome to Edmonton" does the same job for a fraction of the cost.

And we know that the Yellowhead needs an interchange at 66 Street, and other main intersections. We can build them in under the 2 years that the 156 street overpass was built. Do it. And besides, isn't Highway 16 a provincial highway? Get the province to fund and build them! BUT DO IT!

And we know that safe injection sites have not worked in other cities and have led to MORE drug use and dependency. I'm just waiting for the first lawsuit to be filed against municipalities that have these programs - a sharp lawyer could argue that his clients died as a result of public funding of drug abuse.

Thank you.
bobinedmonton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2007, 10:06 AM   #5
ike9126
Addicted to C2E
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: EDMONTON, AB
Default

Before I send a letter of complaint to the sun i want to make one thing sure, Mandel did say that no taxpayer money would be spent on the arena right?
ike9126 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2007, 10:12 AM   #6
RichardS
C2E Junkie
*
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Edmonton
Default

You make some good points Bob, and I am not a fan or supporter of safe injection sites either as I think it exacerbates the problem while they give a cursory look at the "don't do drugs" poster while shooting up...


...and yes, STOP STUDYING RAPID TRANSIT. My God, these studies are just bloody repeats of the study that studied the study that was the result of the study of the study that examined the study in 1963, which itself was the study of a study...you get the picture....

However, there is more to the speed or lack thereof when it comes to roads. Council is only 1 part of the equation, there are the construction companies, the requisite workforce, consultants, lawyers, protest groups, etc. I too am absolutely aghast at the snail's pace of 90% of the construction out there, but to blame one vs the other alone is foolhardy IMO.
__________________
Everywhere I go, I've been slandered, Libeled, I've heard words I've never heard in the Bible - and I am so tired. Simon and Garfunkel "Keep the customer satisfied" Yup, that about sums it up.
RichardS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2007, 10:23 AM   #7
Dusty Bear
Addicted to C2E
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by m0nkyman
What are the qualifications for a Sun columnist. You would think that even a cursory understanding of how municipal taxation works would be required. Yes. Some people got hit with a 20% increase. Without the 7% increase in the mill rate they still would have been hit with an increase. Their house exceeded the average in increase of value.
Neil Waugh knows that. He covered provincial government for years and fully understands the market assessment system.

He also knows how to "arrange" the facts for the greatest impact.
Dusty Bear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2007, 10:27 AM   #8
DebraW
Addicted to C2E
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Default

^ Neil Waugh is a columnist and for those who missed it I sourced/credited/posted to reflect that this is his point of view (POV).
DebraW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2007, 10:28 AM   #9
Dusty Bear
Addicted to C2E
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Default Re: They are NOT experts

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobinedmonton

And we know that safe injection sites have not worked in other cities and have led to MORE drug use and dependency. I'm just waiting for the first lawsuit to be filed against municipalities that have these programs - a sharp lawyer could argue that his clients died as a result of public funding of drug abuse.
We "know" this, do we? Where's your evidence? Studies have said otherwise.
Dusty Bear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2007, 10:37 AM   #10
ike9126
Addicted to C2E
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: EDMONTON, AB
Default

I wish theyd stop beating on the Art Gallery, its already been approved and as far as im concerned, will be a great benifit to the city.
I wish theyd stop going on about the plans for 600 million for a river valley park. Im sure not all the money will come from Edmonton, and Im sure ive read articles in the sun complaining about not enough being done to protect it.
I wish theyd give up on the staircase. Point is known from everyone that has ever picked up a sun.

Upside
No potholes mentioned
ike9126 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2007, 10:39 AM   #11
kcantor
Addicted to C2E
Mr. Reality Check
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Default Re: Council bleeds the taxpayers

Quote:
Council bleeds the taxpayers

Edmonton Sun, June 01, 2007
POV By Neil Waugh
I guess Neil's chasing Kerry's readership...

Personally, what I would really like to see is a POV from a columnist with a headline that reads:

"CHEAPSKATE TAXPAYERS GETTING THE BILL AFTER FIFTEEN YEARS OF FREELOADING"
kcantor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2007, 10:44 AM   #12
RichardS
C2E Junkie
*
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Edmonton
Default

Yep...sure there were no tax hikes to residents in the Reimer years....sure then there were small ones later...and service cuts, and cuts here, and cuts there, here a cut, there a cut, everywhere a cut cut....

well, the bill is due. You didn't fix your roof, you didn't paint your fence, and you didn't fix the downspouts, so now your roof leaks, your fence is rotton, and your foundation is cracked and leaking...gee, what a surprise.
__________________
Everywhere I go, I've been slandered, Libeled, I've heard words I've never heard in the Bible - and I am so tired. Simon and Garfunkel "Keep the customer satisfied" Yup, that about sums it up.
RichardS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2007, 10:57 AM   #13
Dusty Bear
Addicted to C2E
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Default Re: Council bleeds the taxpayers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Waugh
Over the years, various city councils have engaged in the cynical and deceptive practice of stripping more and more municipal services from the general tax base and moving them over to user fees.
Here's a point where I can agree to some extent with Waugh. Council has shifted some services to a user pay model, or at least partly user pay.

So what's happened with all the tax dollars that should have been freed up?
Dusty Bear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2007, 01:37 PM   #14
RichardS
C2E Junkie
*
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Edmonton
Default

...if the "newfound" revenue is still outpaced by the growth and the inflation in the area, and you still want to be politically sensitive and not raise taxes, then your newfound wealth does not go that far....

While that is one scenario, I also am not blind to the fact that there are some wasteful duplication of services within city hall.
__________________
Everywhere I go, I've been slandered, Libeled, I've heard words I've never heard in the Bible - and I am so tired. Simon and Garfunkel "Keep the customer satisfied" Yup, that about sums it up.
RichardS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2007, 08:18 PM   #15
lux
Addicted to C2E
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: Council bleeds the taxpayers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty Bear

Here's a point where I can agree to some extent with Waugh. Council has shifted some services to a user pay model, or at least partly user pay.

So what's happened with all the tax dollars that should have been freed up?

Remember all those heroic council meetings over the last decade of Bill Smith where the City Administration would say "We need a 7% increase just to make ends meet and keep on top of things" and then Council would say "Good heavens no!! Huff huff huff bla bla bla Alberta Advantage....bla bla bla Economize...huff huff huff..cost savings... bla bla bla Efficiencies.....yadda yadda yadda Cost Savings...."

And lo and behold, the budget would pass without any real increase.

Hello! Meanwhile back in reality, the City Administration was right. Things were already being run pretty well, and there was nowhere near the waste to be cut that they imagined, only corners. So, part of the necessary and proper tax increases were hidden in new user fees, and part of the necessary and proper tax increases were forgotten and swept under the carpet.

Well, actually they were swept under the pavement. Except now the tax increases are showing up after all, every time you peer into a pothole.

Dusty Bear, there never was any extra money to be freed up. Our politicians (From Chrétien to Bill Smith and Ralph Klein) lacked the integrity to charge us what was necessary to get the job done and now we are paying the price and playing catch-up.
lux is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.