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Old 14-09-2012, 06:26 AM   #1
thegongshow
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Default Edmonton Introduces The Bike Box

I guess this is a good idea but it amazes me how the city just seems to implement these ideas without any public consultation. In all my travels I've never seen this before. Anyone else?

http://www.edmonton.ca/transportatio.../bike-box.aspx

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/trave...687/story.html
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Old 14-09-2012, 07:29 AM   #2
Channing
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I have seen them before. Pretty simple really.

Why the heck would we need public consultation?
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Old 14-09-2012, 08:29 AM   #3
nobleea
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All over the place in Portland, IIRC.
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Old 14-09-2012, 08:31 AM   #4
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If the city does as good a job of maintaining the bike box painting as they do the "X" markings at some intersections (or even lane divider lines), this thing will have all but disappeared by next spring.
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Old 14-09-2012, 08:33 AM   #5
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The 6 o'clock news reported that these things cost something like $8000.00 each to install. $8000. for some green paint ????
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Old 14-09-2012, 08:39 AM   #6
azzey
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There needs to me more of a public education program for this and the plethora of new bike lanes cropping up around town. I've seen lots of cars driving in them, and cyclists weaving in/out, etc.
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Old 14-09-2012, 08:56 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azzey View Post
There needs to me more of a public education program for this and the plethora of new bike lanes cropping up around town. I've seen lots of cars driving in them, and cyclists weaving in/out, etc.
This. Yes.

It's great the city seems to be finally getting on board with bike lanes and boxes. But they are meaningless if drivers don't know what to do about them. Get the province involved; make it part of driver education and testing. Even if you live in a small town without bike lanes, you may have to drive in the city eventually.

The city also has to do a better job maintaining the lanes; the lanes are often covered in loose gravel, making it unsafe for biking, and the painted lines are sometimes left until they are barely visible.
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Old 14-09-2012, 09:41 AM   #8
Titanium48
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As discussed in the cycling infrastructure thread, I would prefer this:

Prohibiting right on red at a T-intersection is just silly.
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Old 14-09-2012, 10:03 AM   #9
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It's no right turns on red period, for either bikes or cars. As if bikes will not make a right turn on red, rendering the rules both broken and stupid.

I don't mind the idea, but I don't think this is the right implementation.
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Old 14-09-2012, 10:06 AM   #10
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While I was waiting for the bus this morning (on 112th in front of College Plaza), I was watching the bikes travelling up the bike lane which is really clearly marked. Well, I saw one bike going along that lane at traffic speed but there was a car that "needed" to quickly change lanes to make a right turn onto 83rd. He came up quickly behind the cyclist and revved forward. The cyclist had to make a quick lane change left out of the bike lane to avoid becoming a hood ornament.

That's a clearly marked, frequently used bike lane.

I watched the video that the city attached to the web site linked above. I was hopelessly confused by it. Aside from the juvenile tone (max bad humour, min actual info), the video kept changing perspective so often that I simiply couldn't follow the instructions. I don't think the cars are going to go looking for that information either. Cars turning left on the most of the intersections I'm familiar with try to get up as far as they can so that they can see what's coming into the intersection. Are they going to meekly sit behind the box. Or are the cyclists going to be like that young man I saw this morning on a conventional bike lane?

I'm glad I'm neither a cyclist nor a motorist trying to navigate this thing.

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Old 19-09-2012, 03:03 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EveB View Post
I watched the video that the city attached to the web site linked above. I was hopelessly confused by it. Aside from the juvenile tone (max bad humour, min actual info), the video kept changing perspective so often that I simiply couldn't follow the instructions. I don't think the cars are going to go looking for that information either. Cars turning left on the most of the intersections I'm familiar with try to get up as far as they can so that they can see what's coming into the intersection. Are they going to meekly sit behind the box.
Hm, it's really not complicated. Not sure where you got lost. If the video doesn't work for you, the 3 written points underneath it cover the entirety of what there is to know.

Also, when turning left, no one should ever be crawling forward into the intersection on a red light. There's absolutely no reason to do that, and many reasons not to.


And to answer a few of the other questions in this thread:

$8000 is because it's probably thermoplastic, not paint. Thermoplastic lasts significantly longer than paint, but requires resurfacing to install. (Edmonton uses water-based road paints, which don't last very long.)

Bike boxes are found across Europe, Asia, Australia, and in many cities across North America (Portland, Eugene, New York City, Seattle, Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal, Minneapolis, Austin, Vancouver, San Francisco, and a lot more).

No right turns for cyclists is not standard, but is possibly a temporary measure until drivers become accustomed to the no-right-turn rule.

Last edited by fryingwoks; 19-09-2012 at 03:43 AM..
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Old 20-09-2012, 10:43 AM   #12
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I don't understand how no right turns is good, especially when these get put into heavy pedestrian zones. As soon as the light turns green... oh, can't turn, people. Which means they'll either need to add yet another sequence for pedestrians to cross (annoying when there aren't any people), or advance turn lights will be for both right and left turns.

Maybe someone with experience can explain how the no-rights boxes work in places with lots of mixed (passenger, bicycle, and pedestrian) traffic.
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Old 20-09-2012, 05:08 PM   #13
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Just wondering what percentage of users will obey the rules. Apart from most of the avid cycling types (but then not all of them), cyclists tend to throw the bike anywhere there's a gap. Then there's the enforcement of these rules and I'm not holding out a lot of hope on that score, either. Throw into the mix a goodly number of oft-maligned Edmonton motorists and this could turn into a right old mess. I guess we'll see.
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Last edited by howie; 20-09-2012 at 05:11 PM..
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Old 21-09-2012, 01:07 AM   #14
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I drive right through this intersection (and right over the bike box) every day on the way home. So far, the only bikes I have passed have been riding on the sidewalk (and right on through the crosswalk without dismounting). The bikes easily get past the no-right-turn-on-red rule by driving through the crosswalk and then turning right onto the sidewalk.
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