Poll: How many storeys should Mayfair North be?

[kal104]

I thought that it would be interesting to formally document the opinions of C2E members regarding their thoughts on what the height should be for the Mayfair North tower (if it can even be called a tower, given the latest proposal to modify it to 10 storeys by ProCura...).

Anyhow, this thread is to be used solely for the purpose of this poll (and any comments related directly to the height issue of Mayfair North, particularly in relationship to the height of Mayfair South). All other discussion regarding Mayfair North & South should stay on the original thread created for that purpose (see link below).

http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...ead.php?t=5556

I structured this poll as an anonymous poll since I suspect that there may be a subset of C2E posters (particularly those involved in the local building design / development / construction industries) who'd only fill out this poll if they could stay anonymous. For those who'd like to explain the rationale for their choice of the Mayfair North height, feel free to do so in this thread.

I'm personally curious to see just how many of us are OK with the revised 10 storey height of the Mayfair North versus wanting this building at a higher height (this height change by ProCura appears to be a somewhat contentious issue on C2E, hence this poll... and for the record, I have no affiliation with ProCura).

Mods: If you think that it is appropriate (or even possible) to merge this poll / thread comments into the main Mayfair Apartments thread, then feel free to do so.

[Medwards]

Where's the option for heights higher than 16?

[Edmonton PRT]

The Airport was closed for a reason. I would say 46 storeys would be a good start.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Originally Posted by Medwards

Where's the option for heights higher than 16?

+1

[Roquentin]

65

[Edmonton PRT]

66

[EveB]

Originally Posted by Roquentin

65

You do understand there are LRT tunnels below the proposed structure don't you? That would be a bad corner for a very tall building to topple over.

Eve

[Roquentin]

Originally Posted by EveB

You do understand there are LRT tunnels below the proposed structure don't you? That would be a bad corner for a very tall building to topple over.

Eve

Oh, you're right. How could I have been so obtuse?

[Edmcowboy11]

Only problem I have with the poll question of accepting what it looks like for the proposed new design, I haven't seen that design so I really can't comment and form an informed opinion.

[whyteknight]

hard to comment without seeing the newest scheme but based on the ORIGINAL I'd prefer 18 storeys on the corner, flanked by 16 to the south (built) and 16 to the east.

[kal104]

Originally Posted by Medwards

Where's the option for heights higher than 16?

Just some clarification regarding the intent of this poll. The choices given were to reflect the storey heights we can reasonably expect from ProCura for Mayfair North (hence the cap at 16 storeys for the poll choices). If anyone thinks that it should be higher, then for the poll choose the highest selection (16 storeys) but feel free to add a comment giving how many storeys you'd like to see and the reasoning for a greater height preference for Mayfair North.

Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11

Only problem I have with the poll question of accepting what it looks like for the proposed new design, I haven't seen that design so I really can't comment and form an informed opinion.

I understand this concern and that this may cause some to delay selecting a poll choice until the latest renderings of Mayfair North are available to view publicly. Part of the purpose of this poll is to guage the sentiment (or even the gut feelings) of C2E members regarding the proposed truncation of Mayfair North from 16 floors as originally planned to 10 floors by the developer (ProCura).

Will ProCura be able to pull off a decent exterior visual transition between the (almost adjacent) two buildings despite a 6 storey difference between the two? In this regard, I'm particularly concerned about the perspective of someone looking from the west toward the west faces of both the north and south Mayfair buildings. Time will tell if ProCura can accomplish a good visual transition, but my gut tells me that the height difference between the two buildings will need to be less than 6 storeys to pull that off, regardless of what they do with the north building's massing / shape / finishes if it is only 10 storeys high.

Anyhow, my hope is to formally quantify the aforementioned sentiment via this poll. These results can then be referred to from within the main Mayfair Apartments thread when discussing the changes proposed by ProCura for the Mayfair North building, once renders of it become publicly available for posting / viewing on C2E.

[IanO]

Originally Posted by whyteknight

hard to comment without seeing the newest scheme but based on the ORIGINAL I'd prefer 18 storeys on the corner, flanked by 16 to the south (built) and 16 to the east.

This

[EveB]

They would have to set in the centre block to accommodate the LRT tunnels below. I think. I wouldn't mind a taller structure either. I couldn't quite understand the explanation during the EDC meeting about the fact that the type of steel construction they were going to use never goes above a certain number of floors and that the design as it stands is already pushing it.

Someone who is more familiar with construction methods and who has had a closer look at the plans than I had might be able to comment.

Eve

[whyteknight]

Originally Posted by EveB

They would have to set in the centre block to accommodate the LRT tunnels below. I think. I wouldn't mind a taller structure either. I couldn't quite understand the explanation during the EDC meeting about the fact that the type of steel construction they were going to use never goes above a certain number of floors and that the design as it stands is already pushing it.

Someone who is more familiar with construction methods and who has had a closer look at the plans than I had might be able to comment.

Eve

As I stated earlier the diagram is irrelevant with regards to the setback scheme as I have yet to see it. If it is setback as much as it sounds like it may be, even 18 storeys is unlikely to achieve this corner-focused presence that I was getting at. I'll have to re-evaluate and tweak it when I have more information to go on.

I too am curious to find out more about this type of steel construction. Some sort of light steel stick frame construction perhaps?


http://www.specifile.co.za/specifier...es_Village.jpg

[moahunter]

Given how bland the first tower is, maybe we would be better off just living with that, and instead have something better, that doesn't integrate, for the corner?

[whyteknight]

Originally Posted by moahunter

Given how bland the first tower is, maybe we would be better off just living with that, and instead have something better, that doesn't integrate, for the corner?

Wouldn't that be nice!! Unfortunately its sounding like will have to live with more of the same blandness just in a compromised form. Yippee

[Arsoys]

It should be long enough to reach the ground.

Unlike your 65/66 story pie-in-the-sky ideas, which if they are pushed hard enough will likely dissuade the developer from going ahead and will thus endure the empty corner will remain a parking lot.

[kal104]

I haven't checked this thread in over a month, but my intent was to bump this poll thread up once a revised rendering of the Mayfair North tower became publicly available (I use the term tower here loosely, as the proposed building is now truncated to 10 storeys...). Well, the new render became publicly available this weekend, as per the post below by Chmilz (see the main Mayfair Apartments C2E thread [post #2044]).

Originally Posted by Chmilz

Looks like a hospital or something that should be out on a campus. A massive waste of downtown space.

Now that a new render is available, those that were waiting to see it before filling out this poll can now do so, if they want to. Just a few reminders about the nature / intent of this poll, as per the bullet points below.

• The poll is anonymous (i.e. no one else will know how you voted, unless you choose to disclose your vote choice via a reply in the thread).
• The poll choices given were to reflect the storey heights we can reasonably expect from ProCura for Mayfair North (hence the cap at 16 storeys).
• If anyone thinks that Mayfair North should be higher than 16 storeys, then for the poll choose the highest selection (16 storeys) but feel free to add a comment via a thread reply giving how many storeys you'd like to see and the reasoning for a greater height preference for Mayfair North.

Lastly, this thread is to be used solely for the purpose of this poll (and any comments related directly to the height issue of Mayfair North, particularly in relationship to the height of Mayfair South). All other discussion regarding Mayfair North & South should stay on the original thread created for that purpose (see link below).

http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...ead.php?t=5556



Now, for my own comments related to the lastest rendering and the height of Mayfair North vis-à-vis that of Mayfair South.

• I think that this render is a "best face / angle" view from the northwest of the two buildings. However, I feel that if one were to have a view directly from the west, the shortness of the Mayfair North compared to Mayfair South would become (painfully) apparent.
• Due to how high profile this downtown corner is (from both a vehicular & pedestrian traffic point of view), Mayfair North needs to have sufficient "presence" as it will function as a kind of "bookend" at what is generally considered the west entrance to the downtown core via Jasper Ave.
• However, due to the LRT tunnel, cost appears to be prohibitive to build anything substantial over the tunnel itself (i.e. massive transfer beams would need to be a part of the building structure over the tunnel in order to transfer the building's weight away from the LRT tunnel to the ground around it).
• As a compromise, could it be possible to bring back the podium so that the north building does not sit over the LRT tunnel and then build higher in return for that compromise? In other words, would it be feasible for the city to cut a deal whereby the area over the LRT tunnel becomes a small greenspace / pocket park, with ProCura being allowed more height (say, 18-20 storeys total) in exchange for a smaller building footprint? This of course assumes that the LRT tunnel structure only cuts under the SE corner of Jasper Ave & 109 St, with the rest of the land being able to support the weight of a taller building without the need for massive internal transfer beams & their associated design / build expense.

Anyhow, those are my musings regarding the height of Mayfair North and how to possibly deal with the current rendering's lack of "presence" at a very critical downtown corner. It is imperative that this building be done right as the general size / height / massing of it, once built, will be around (to haunt us, if done improperly) for at least several generations.