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2011 Federal Election Forum This Forum is to gather all topics and discussions around the 2011 Federal Election. This was born out of the Jimbo thread entitled the "real issues". This forum will be archived 1 week after the end of the election.


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Old 05-04-2011, 08:49 AM   #1
etownboarder
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Default Czar Stephen Harper

A very sad day for Canadians. Is this the kind of behaviour you expect from your leader:

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Ignatieff slams Harper over Facebook screening
CBC News Posted: Apr 5, 2011 9:53 AM ET Last Updated: Apr 5, 2011 10:36 AM ET

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff is accusing Conservative Leader Stephen Harper of performing more rigorous background checks on people showing up at his campaign events than advisers he hires in the Prime Minister's Office.

Ignatieff's verbal jab at Harper comes after reports the Conservatives threw two university students out of a Conservative rally in London, Ont., on the weekend.

Awish Aslam, a second-year political science student at the University of Western Ontario, told CBC News she and a friend were trying to attend a Sunday rally with Harper when they were asked to leave by a RCMP officer.

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff poses with Awish Aslam, who was later removed from a Stephen Harper rally on Sunday. FacebookAslam said they were led to the lobby where the officer told them they were no longer welcome because they had ties to the Liberal party. Aslam said the only explanation was her Facebook profile photo showing her posing for a picture with Ignatieff at a recent Liberal rally in London.

Aslam said she wanted to hear directly from all the main party leaders and had also attended a rally with NDP Leader Jack Layton.

She said she had to pre-register for the Conservative event Sunday, which is how the party had her name.

The Liberal leader told reporters during a campaign stop in Newfoundland and Labrador that "you are in a very un-Canadian place," when citizens get tossed from public meetings for having "a certain Facebook friend: me."

Full Story: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cana...rally-923.html
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:09 AM   #2
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Can you spew your crazy rantings in one of the established election threads?
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:11 AM   #3
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Can you spew your crazy rantings in one of the established election threads?
No.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:18 AM   #4
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Can you spew your crazy rantings in one of the established election threads?
Crazy rantings? This is the kind of thing I think most Canadians are not hearing about enough. I think the nonsense from our so called "prime minister"/tyrant in waiting is more well described as crazy rantings.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:19 AM   #5
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I'm ok with it....Iggy should go back to his country of choice......USA which I'm sure he will once he looses the election.

Go Stephen Go.!!!
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:23 AM   #6
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every single one of these "OMG-harper-is-a-dictator/a-hole/whatever" accusations just make the opposition parties and the media look stupid. Is this story a big deal? No, it's not even a little deal. Who cares? Honestly. "Czar?" Way to throw out your credibility on a sensational headline that doesn't even have anything to do with the story...
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:28 AM   #7
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every single one of these "OMG-harper-is-a-dictator/a-hole/whatever" accusations just make the opposition parties and the media look stupid. Is this story a big deal? No, it's not even a little deal. Who cares? Honestly. "Czar?" Way to throw out your credibility on a sensational headline that doesn't even have anything to do with the story...
It's not a big deal? I completely disagree. These rallies are intended to inform voters, and Harper and his cronies made a point of stopping voters from hearing their message. That's two people who will not vote Conservative who might have had they been given the chance to hear Harper's message.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:37 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark View Post
every single one of these "OMG-harper-is-a-dictator/a-hole/whatever" accusations just make the opposition parties and the media look stupid. Is this story a big deal? No, it's not even a little deal. Who cares? Honestly. "Czar?" Way to throw out your credibility on a sensational headline that doesn't even have anything to do with the story...
It's not a big deal? I completely disagree. These rallies are intended to inform voters, and Harper and his cronies made a point of stopping voters from hearing their message. That's two people who will not vote Conservative who might have had they been given the chance to hear Harper's message.
haha everyone on this thread is like who cares? not a bid deal... can't even defend the douchebag they will so blindly vote for.
here's why I won't be voting for harper's government
http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/hom.../05/01929.html
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:39 AM   #9
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Just one of a million reasons to vote ABC.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:43 AM   #10
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BM

Last edited by Turtle; 07-04-2011 at 05:00 PM.. Reason: removed slur.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:45 AM   #11
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Tell me about the scary American agenda Harper has for Canada, I need a good laugh from a liberal {edit - removed slur}.
The fact that you just used the word "*****" to get your point across tells us how ill-informed you really are. Or maybe you haven't heard that the word "****" hasn't been PC since about 1989.

Last edited by Admin; 05-04-2011 at 09:57 AM.. Reason: remoived slur
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:47 AM   #12
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Tell me about the scary American agenda Harper has for Canada, I need a good laugh from a liberal {edit - removed slur}.
Perhaps you missed the recent postings on the use of personal attacks like "******" etc. Please try to be less like a typical CON supporter and try arguing the facts. Harper is acting like a "tyrant" - governing with little concern for the people, and deserves to be called out for it.

Last edited by Admin; 05-04-2011 at 09:59 AM.. Reason: removed slur - NOTE No need to repeat it folks when you reply.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:47 AM   #13
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Too bad for you out west only one in a million will follow your suggestion and vote for someone else. The rest of us will vote for the Conservatives since we're not so stupid as to be bribed with our own money, such is the basis of the Liberal and NDP platforms.

When I throw a house party, I make sure to keep all the d--ks out too. I'm sure there's more to the story, but even if there isn't, I wouldn't want opposing supporters at my rally heckling me either.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:48 AM   #14
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I'd like to know why/how the RCMP got involved in this.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:49 AM   #15
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I'm rather more concerned about the issues summarized, albeit quite hastily, in this editorial:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226030310248
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:50 AM   #16
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Just one of a million reasons to vote ABC.
is voting ABC (anything but conservative) really a good strategy for you guys? seems like it would guarantee at least a minority gov for harper...
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:52 AM   #17
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^ They go ABC because there's no single credible candidate on the left, so they use the shotgun approach. Which will fail. Again.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:53 AM   #18
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When I throw a house party, I make sure to keep all the d--ks out too. I'm sure there's more to the story, but even if there isn't, I wouldn't want opposing supporters at my rally heckling me either.
The two girls had already attended rallies by Ignatieff and Layton and had planned to go to rallies for all three of the main leaders. And while I agree that keeping out the "d--ks" is fair, I don't see how removing two everyday citizens looking to learn more about your policies could be compared with keeping out hecklers. And btw, the right to free speech/protest is something ALL Canadians have, regardless of their political views. If Harper were a straight shooter, he wouldn't have to hide behind his limiting of questions from reporters, etc. Instead, he would counter their arguments using logic and fact.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:55 AM   #19
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Tell me about the scary American agenda Harper has for Canada, I need a good laugh from a liberal ******.
ladies and gentleman we have a WINNER!
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:55 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
Just one of a million reasons to vote ABC.
is voting ABC (anything but conservative) really a good strategy for you guys? seems like it would guarantee at least a minority gov for harper...
he's getting a minority govt again. probably with a small loss of seats. then he'll be forced out as leader and someone a little more centrist will take over. at which point they'll get their majority.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:55 AM   #21
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Quote:
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Just one of a million reasons to vote ABC.
is voting ABC (anything but conservative) really a good strategy for you guys? seems like it would guarantee at least a minority gov for harper...
We just had the longest running minority government in Canadian history... I would rather see another Conservative minority than a majority. At least with a Conservative minority gov't, Harper would be ousted by his own party and replaced with someone who has the best interests of the country at heart.
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Old 05-04-2011, 09:56 AM   #22
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The rest of us will vote for the Conservatives since we're not so stupid as to be bribed with our own money, such is the basis of the Liberal and NDP platforms.
.
ummmm what was the harper government found in contempt of parliament for? bribing people with their own money...
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:00 AM   #23
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Seriously folks, keep it clean.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:08 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark View Post
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Just one of a million reasons to vote ABC.
is voting ABC (anything but conservative) really a good strategy for you guys? seems like it would guarantee at least a minority gov for harper...
We just had the longest running minority government in Canadian history... I would rather see another Conservative minority than a majority. At least with a Conservative minority gov't, Harper would be ousted by his own party and replaced with someone who has the best interests of the country at heart.
lets stay on topic, this thread is about politicians....
I'll vote harper, and if you think iggy or anyone else would lead this country differently I think you're sadly mistaken... sure the delivery might be new and different, but with the existing candidates it'd be just more of the same.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:15 AM   #25
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I honestly don't know how anyone can say Harper doesn't have Canada's best interests at heart? Canada hasn't been ran this smoothly in two decades. It would be running even better if every single move-Canada-forward initiative wasn't killed by the opposition purely out of partisanship, and so they could claim credit if they put it forward themselves if they ever got a majority in the future.

All parties do this, and it's stupid. At this exact moment however, the finger is pointing to the Liberals and NDP.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:19 AM   #26
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every single one of these "OMG-harper-is-a-dictator/a-hole/whatever" accusations just make the opposition parties and the media look stupid. Is this story a big deal? No, it's not even a little deal. Who cares? Honestly. "Czar?" Way to throw out your credibility on a sensational headline that doesn't even have anything to do with the story...
It's not a big deal? I completely disagree. These rallies are intended to inform voters, and Harper and his cronies made a point of stopping voters from hearing their message. That's two people who will not vote Conservative who might have had they been given the chance to hear Harper's message.
The Liberals and NDPs do the EXACT same thing.

It's simple politics, and you put aside your hate for Harper and stop zeroing in on him with blinders on, you'll see that other parties work hard keep opposition colors out of their rallies as well.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:21 AM   #27
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The Liberals and NDPs do the EXACT same thing.

It's simple politics, and you put aside your hate for Harper and stop zeroing in on him with blinders on, you'll see that other parties work hard keep opposition colors out of their rallies as well.
Nobody controls/manipulates/censors the media or average citizen like Stephen Harper does. I won't even blame the Conservative Party for this as the blame rests solely on Harper.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:26 AM   #28
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E-town. I think it's disgusting as well...
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:28 AM   #29
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Nobody controls/manipulates/censors the media or average citizen like Stephen Harper does.
If I showed up at a Liberal or NDP rally with a Conservative sign, I would get thrown out on my ***** before I even got close enough to catch a glimpse of Ignatieff or Layton (and before that, Paul Martin... and before that, Jean Chretien...).

And politicians "manipulate" citizens and the media all the time. That's their job. And Harper didn't invent that tactic.

You know, there's no point in arguuing this with you because you clearly believe that only Stephen Harper does this. One day, when all of these parties have new leaders, you'll see the EXACT same scenarios playing out no matter what politician is in power.

Criticise Harper for anything else, but don't blame him for acting like a politician.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:32 AM   #30
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^ show me where they had a sign...

Your painting a picture that differs from what actually happened.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:32 AM   #31
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^Seeing as how we vote for the party and not Harper, maybe you should pay more attention to the party platform instead of one person.

If you take Harper out of it, you're left with a Conservative party that has done a heck of a job since forming government. If you take Ignatieff out of it, you have a Liberal party that is broken and confused, and can't even choose a leader. If you take Layton out of it, well, I don't think there's much to the NDP outside of Layton and his big mouth.

Basing your votes on some perceived appearance of one person that holds little power in a government that requires voting majority to pass things, is insane. The platform they campaign with is entirely what's at issue, and the Liberal platform is, without question, shoveling funds into social programs at the expense of taxpayers and a competitive job-creation environment.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:37 AM   #32
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^ show me where they had a sign...
I never said they had a sign with them. That wasn't my point.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:44 AM   #33
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Of course all politicians manipulate the media... but there's a big difference between trying to get your story across, and then refusing to answer more than 4 questions a day (especially during an election campaign). I'm not saying Ignatieff or Layton are angels, but they sure seem a lot more sincere than Stephen Harper does. Unfortunately, Harper just looks like he's always trying to hide something. Not once have I felt like he was telling me the whole truth to the story.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:51 AM   #34
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^ show me where they had a sign...
I never said they had a sign with them. That wasn't my point.
Your point isn't valid to the topic.

Two young people who wanted to attend various political rallies were thrown out because their facebook page showed a picture of them with Iggy.

Our democratic system is to be free and open... not selective and discriminatory.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:52 AM   #35
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Other leaders don't have a predefined limit to media questions, but in a scrum they definitely will ignore questions or say things like "next question" if they don't think it's a good question or not worth replying to it at that time. That garners a similar result to saying, "I'll take no more than four questions - make them good"

Harper is a control freak, without a doubt. I think the optics of that make his opponents perceive him as a worse person than he actually is.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:55 AM   #36
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Two young people who wanted to attend various political rallies were thrown out because their facebook page showed a picture of them with Iggy.
And if I showed up to an NDP or Liberal rally with a Conservative sign, they would tell me to get lost. If I refused, they would likely take my sign from me and the organizers would make sure that I didn't gain entry.

This happens EVERYWHERE.

Someone has their photo posted with Ignatieff? Might as well post a photo of you holding up a Liberal sign.
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:56 AM   #37
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Harper is a control freak, without a doubt. I think the optics of that make his opponents perceive him as a worse person than he actually is.
And who's fault is that? Nobody but his own (and his communications/PR manager). If his communications/PR people think this is the best image of Harper they can show to Canadians, imagine what the real man must be like?
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:01 AM   #38
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Quote:
Two young people who wanted to attend various political rallies were thrown out because their facebook page showed a picture of them with Iggy.
And if I showed up to an NDP or Liberal rally with a Conservative sign, they would tell me to get lost. If I refused, they would likely take my sign from me and the organizers would make sure that I didn't gain entry.

This happens EVERYWHERE.

Someone has their photo posted with Ignatieff? Might as well post a photo of you holding up a Liberal sign.
They didn't have a sign... quit twisting things...

and how is having a picture of you and Iggy together in cyberspace the same as protesting in the middle of a political rally that is occurring in the real world... what!! you're going to bring your Big Screen TV and Hold up your face book page in the middle of it.

this is a slippery slope...
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:09 AM   #39
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This whole story smells like a set up.

Why does CBC have video of the picture being take of the two girls with Ignatiff?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cana...rally-923.html
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:10 AM   #40
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Quote:
Two young people who wanted to attend various political rallies were thrown out because their facebook page showed a picture of them with Iggy.
And if I showed up to an NDP or Liberal rally with a Conservative sign, they would tell me to get lost. If I refused, they would likely take my sign from me and the organizers would make sure that I didn't gain entry.

This happens EVERYWHERE.

Someone has their photo posted with Ignatieff? Might as well post a photo of you holding up a Liberal sign.
No offense but that's a rather silly leap in logic there.

First off, why are the conservatives vetting potential voters by checking their facebook pages? That is a huge invasion of privacy.

Secondly, prove it. I haven't heard anyone else being evicted from rallies because of their political affiliations.

What Mr. Harper did was an insult to democratic rights and a slap in the face to civility and fair play.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:12 AM   #41
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It was a Conservative rally, not an information session or debate. The purpose of a rally is to energize your supporters. One of these people had an NDP bumper sticker on their car and the others facebook profile had a picture with Ignatief.
They are obviously not innocent students looking to be informed.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:15 AM   #42
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OBVIOUSLY
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:15 AM   #43
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It was a Conservative rally, not an information session or debate. The purpose of a rally is to energize your supporters. One of these people had an NDP bumper sticker on their car and the others facebook profile had a picture with Ignatief.
They are obviously not innocent students looking to be informed.
That's ridiculous. They could have just been curious students looking to get perspectives from all the candidates. They give bumper stickers out like tapwater at rallies. They also do a ton of photo ops.

Could it be that they went to an NDP rally, got a free bumper sticker, then went to a Liberal rally and got a photo op?

How paranoid can you people get?
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:21 AM   #44
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This whole story smells like a set up.

Why does CBC have video of the picture being take of the two girls with Ignatiff?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cana...rally-923.html
Cause it's a political rally... and cameras were there!

The Media follows the campaign and films... um... everything.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:24 AM   #45
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This whole story smells like a set up.

Why does CBC have video of the picture being take of the two girls with Ignatiff?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cana...rally-923.html
Cause it's a political rally... and cameras were there!

The Media follows the campaign and films... um... everything.
Especially the leader.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:29 AM   #46
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First off, why are the conservatives vetting potential voters by checking their facebook pages? That is a huge invasion of privacy.
Nonsense. Anything you post on the internet isn't private.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:29 AM   #47
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It was a Conservative rally, not an information session or debate. The purpose of a rally is to energize your supporters. One of these people had an NDP bumper sticker on their car and the others facebook profile had a picture with Ignatief.
They are obviously not innocent students looking to be informed.
A political rally that does nothing but energize your supporters is a very poor rally. You want NEW supporters. You know, like girlies flirting with the other parties -- who just might be convinced to vote for you.

My god, I cannot recognize the party I voted for for twenty plus years. Nor the people I thought we were all on the same side with, together.

Look at you. And your leader. But mostly at you. Your opponents are retards or worse. You sneer like the most arrogant royalty out there. You are all 100% together and everyone else is 100% out. That's like a cancer. And that's why your leader is the way he is.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:30 AM   #48
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Harper is a control freak, without a doubt. I think the optics of that make his opponents perceive him as a worse person than he actually is.
Amen. I've never met a successful business that wasn't ran by a control freak. You can be a nice person, do the right thing, and still be in control. Maybe it's socialist policy to have a room full of addled buffoons running around throwing policy change about willy nilly.

I'll take a spoonful of structure with my government, thank you.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:31 AM   #49
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Look at you. And your leader. But mostly at you. Your opponents are retards or worse. You sneer like the most arrogant royalty out there. You are all 100% together and everyone else is 100% out. That's like a cancer. And that's why your leader is the way he is.
Hyperbole much?
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:36 AM   #50
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First off, why are the conservatives vetting potential voters by checking their facebook pages? That is a huge invasion of privacy.
Nonsense. Anything you post on the internet isn't private.
Nor is it easily made public... ie unless they were going to hold up there I phone in protest...

I'm sure that would have made a huge impact.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:38 AM   #51
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Look at you. And your leader. But mostly at you. Your opponents are retards or worse. You sneer like the most arrogant royalty out there. You are all 100% together and everyone else is 100% out. That's like a cancer. And that's why your leader is the way he is.
Hyperbole much?
Not at all. You do call your opponents vile names and laugh too loudly -- even in e-text. You do sneer at the opposition too loudly. Read the conservative comments (including the censored ones) in this thread. And if you weren't 100% together against 100% of the others, those two girls would not have been kicked out. As regards your dear leader being your own ugly reflection -- well, d'oh. Why else would you be tempted to vote for him?

So the only bit of hyperbole is my cancer reference. That really got you, huh? Well, too bad. Feel the contempt you so richly pour over everyone who's not in your mob.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:41 AM   #52
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You do call your opponents vile names and laugh too loudly -- even in e-text. You do sneer at the opposition too loudly. Read the conservative comments (including the censored ones) in this thread. And if you weren't 100% together against 100% of the others, those two girls would not have been kicked out. As regards your dear leader being your own ugly reflection -- well, d'oh. Why else would you be tempted to vote for him?

So the only bit of hyperbole is my cancer reference. That really got you, huh? Well, too bad. Feel the contempt you so richly pour over everyone who's not in your mob.
Not me. Neither do a lot of Conservative Party supporters.

But by all means, keep painting all of us with the same brush. It's your prejudice, not ours.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:49 AM   #53
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You do call your opponents vile names and laugh too loudly -- even in e-text. You do sneer at the opposition too loudly. Read the conservative comments (including the censored ones) in this thread. And if you weren't 100% together against 100% of the others, those two girls would not have been kicked out. As regards your dear leader being your own ugly reflection -- well, d'oh. Why else would you be tempted to vote for him?

So the only bit of hyperbole is my cancer reference. That really got you, huh? Well, too bad. Feel the contempt you so richly pour over everyone who's not in your mob.
Not me. Neither do a lot of Conservative Party supporters.

But by all means, keep painting all of us with the same brush. It's your prejudice, not ours.
You see, "Mr. Oilers", if you are going to proudly be a member of a group, then you get to wear all the mud of the group. And not just you, but everyone else.

So all the libturd epithets ever flung are yours to wear. All the criminal and whoring activity up there is yours to wear. All the lies of the Conservative party, all the immoral bribery caught on tape, all the bungled and brutal security at however many events big and small, all the "I/we make the rules here" bragging... all of it.

You are ever so Conservative, right? Well, then, the Conservative dirt sticks. Wear it. Just as the Liberal dirt stuck to the Liberals a few years ago. Except that was then. And this is now.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:54 AM   #54
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My question is where does it stop.... Can I no longer go to a PC rally because I Google Liberal?
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:56 AM   #55
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^I am not sure there is a natural stopping point, once we get on that road. And that is why I gave up my deep once-conservative beliefs.
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Old 05-04-2011, 12:00 PM   #56
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Harper's campaign is based on destroying the middle ground and polarizing the vote in Canada, a very dangerous and divisive strategy that could have serious long term implications for Canada. This is not what Canada is all about.
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Old 05-04-2011, 12:32 PM   #57
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^Well, he is a strong leader, and so many people want that. So we're on that road. And eventually, someone will start bleating about how there are "good Canadians" also, regardless.
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:13 PM   #58
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Yep so good he can't get enough of the votes to form a gov't... there is a diff between a strong leader and a dictator.
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:23 PM   #59
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he can't get enough of the votes to form a gov't...
What?

Stephen Harper has been the Prime Minister of the Government of Canada for 5 years.
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:32 PM   #60
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It was a conservative rally to rally the troops, as in people who are conservative supporters. Obviously Aslam and friend have a lot of time on their hands or just want the publicity. On the other hand, maybe they should have been left alone and only removed if they started getting outta hand.
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:36 PM   #61
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I don't know how anyone can read the following article and be 100% okay with everything that has happened over the last 5 years with Harper in Gov't:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226030310248

And it's not even a Canadian newspaper.
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:41 PM   #62
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News Flash The conservative election plan has been lost and no one remembers what was in it. Could we please get all Harper supporters to check any strip clubs in your area. It is in a black folder labeled "TOP SECRET"
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:42 PM   #63
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And it's not even a Canadian newspaper.
No, not published in a Canadian newspaper, but it was written by a Poli Sci professor at University of Waterloo in Ontario. And clearly a Liberal supporter.
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:43 PM   #64
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^Too bad it's true, all of it.
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:44 PM   #65
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^It's politics, it's a blood sport. There is incompetence, lies and scofflaws in every party. Same tricks, different political bent.
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:46 PM   #66
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I honestly don't know how anyone can say Harper doesn't have Canada's best interests at heart? Canada hasn't been ran this smoothly in two decades. It would be running even better if every single move-Canada-forward initiative wasn't killed by the opposition purely out of partisanship, and so they could claim credit if they put it forward themselves if they ever got a majority in the future.

All parties do this, and it's stupid. At this exact moment however, the finger is pointing to the Liberals and NDP.
WOW. Proroguing parliament twice was in Canada's best interests? Getting rid of the long-form census in contradiction of every qualified opinion was in Canada's best interests? Taking a budget surplus and turning it into a structural deficit? The untendered contract for fighter jets which the parliamentary budget officer has stated will cost double what the conservatives claim? Refusing to provide cost information on the crime agenda to MPs so they can do their job as elected officials? Refusing to discipline a cabinet minister who lied to parliament?

I second everything alex is saying.
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:46 PM   #67
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^^Actually, no. It's NOT the same in every party. Not at any given point in time. Like right now. And if you are honest, you will admit the present filth is more in the CPC than anywhere else. Are you honest?
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:51 PM   #68
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^Yes, it is the same in every party. Have the liberals been lily white when they have been in power, resounding NO. There could be a few volumes written about liberal indiscretions. Yes, for the most part I would say I am honest but, I don't have to answer to the Canadian electorate.
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:53 PM   #69
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he can't get enough of the votes to form a gov't...
What?

Stephen Harper has been the Prime Minister of the Government of Canada for 5 years.
a majority gov't... better
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:55 PM   #70
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^Yes, it is the same in every party. Have the liberals been lily white when they have been in power, resounding NO. There could be a few volumes written about liberal indiscretions. Yes, for the most part I would say I am honest but, I don't have to answer to the Canadian electorate.
There are more parties than the Libs and the Cons.
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Old 05-04-2011, 01:56 PM   #71
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Re long gun registry......................
No system is perfect, and this one has its faults but do not overlook the fact this is at least a make work project for Canadians and most of the money paid to the staff in this government dept. spend the money in Canada purchasing goods and services and paying tax etc......not like wasting money on fighter jets which cannot fly dependably in the Arctic and made in some foreign country. Do not forget it was the Deifenbaker CONS who killed our Canadian Avero Arrow jet design and manufacturing facilities...........forcing these engineers, draftsman etc. to go to the USA to stay employed!! Bullroney and Harper are just shills for the USA......vote ABC.
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:01 PM   #72
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I sense a disturbance in the force. There are people about to enter a "my party's transgressions are less disturbing than your party's transgressions" contest where no good shall come and a planet could explode.

This thread is starting to get a little testy, so this is just a little pre-emptive warning to keep it civil.
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:05 PM   #73
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^Yes, it is the same in every party. Have the liberals been lily white when they have been in power, resounding NO. There could be a few volumes written about liberal indiscretions. Yes, for the most part I would say I am honest but, I don't have to answer to the Canadian electorate.
Parties in power become corrupt and must be replaced. The Liberals were kicked out for what they had done... that's over and done with. At the time, I cheered. Here's the list of filth about the CPC now, just corruption filth, I'll leave platforms and promises out of it:

* your prime minister was caught on tape discussing financial renumerations for a bribe to an MP

* he allowed a convicted felon channel funds from the PMO to a whore;

* your party falsified an election campaign with illegal financing in and out;

* your party ran a basic construction kickbacks scheme to channel funds for parliament renovation;

* your party packaged government stimulus funding to pretend it was conservative-party spending.

The totals here are well in the hundreds of millions and of at least the same magnitude as the sposorship scandal. But you choose not to see it. Fine. You, and every other remaining Conservative, has been evaluated for what you see and don't see.

I was a Conservative all my life. I will not tolerate my party lying. Bye bye.
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:13 PM   #74
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:14 PM   #75
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^Yes, it is the same in every party. Have the liberals been lily white when they have been in power, resounding NO. There could be a few volumes written about liberal indiscretions. Yes, for the most part I would say I am honest but, I don't have to answer to the Canadian electorate.
There are more parties than the Libs and the Cons.

...while true...one small technicality....they've been in office when exactly?????



While this tit for tat is amusing, they are focusing on issues while in power from what I see. This is turing into arguing about shades of black, but I won't let that stop anyone...
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:15 PM   #76
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^^What makes you think the conservatives are 'My Party'. I've said, politics is a blood sport, not for the faint hearted. ALL parties that obtain power drop themselves in it now and again. It's not just the conservatives that do that. At the end of the day politicians are only human, they have the same faults as the rest of us. At least we live in a country where we can vote them in (or out).
Bye Bye to you too.
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:19 PM   #77
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:19 PM   #78
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^^^But that's the whole point, Richard.

If you are (one is) going to argue that all politicians are corrupt, you either accept corruption, or keep it with some sort of bounds. And the only way to do it is to vote against. Sad or not, that's how it works -- it IS about the whitest shade of black. Otherwise we say we are OK with corruption and filth as long as it is OUR filth. At some point I found out I can't do it any more.

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Old 05-04-2011, 02:21 PM   #79
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^^What makes you think the conservatives are 'My Party'. I've said, politics is a blood sport, not for the faint hearted. ALL parties that obtain power drop themselves in it now and again. It's not just the conservatives that do that. At the end of the day politicians are only human, they have the same faults as the rest of us. At least we live in a country where we can vote them in (or out).
Bye Bye to you too.
All right, let's deal with this directly. Are you (right now) planning to vote for the CPC candidate?

If you are, it's your party. If you are not, I take my "your party" comment back. With apologies for misunderstanding.
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:24 PM   #80
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^Keep corruption in some sort of bounds. Please elaborate.
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:28 PM   #81
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^If you are a conservative supporter, then you support all the conservative corruption. Simple as that, and I've listed what you are supporting.

I have gathered you are a conservative supporter. I could be wrong; you object to my calling the CPC "your party". To clear it up, I'm asking you a simple question. Are you (right now) planning to vote CPC? If you say anything other than "yes", I apologize for being mistaken.
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:32 PM   #82
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^Yes, I am planning on voting conservative. I don't want to vote for the visiting professor. Simply because I have had enough of this.

http://www.lufa.ca/boondoggles.asp
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:39 PM   #83
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^Ah, OK. Well, thank you. Your party is very happy for your support of all its lies. Present filth, not stuff in the past done by people long since out of politics.
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:52 PM   #84
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^Well, I referred to that link just to show you how long Liberal corruption goes back. You could look up more current Liberal corruption if you want. There is plenty of it on the net.
Like I said, I don't want to vote for the visiting professor. If Iggy does not win this election let's ask the question 'Where will he be a year from now'. Place your bets now.
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:53 PM   #85
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this thread is exactly why Edmonton has fallen so far behind Calgary. They voted for a progressive, liberal, and motivated mayor like Naheed Nenshi while Edmonton is still blindly following the propaganda that the Conservatives spout.
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:56 PM   #86
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^On the other hand, while Edmonton has elected both Liberal and NDP MPs recently, when is the last time anyone except the PC/Reform/Conservative candidate won any of the Calgary constituencies in a federal election?
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:57 PM   #87
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Isn't Prime Minister Harper's riding in Calgary?

Isn't a nickname of Edmonton REDmonton?

Wasn't Bronco a Liberal?

Klein was a Lib as well for a long time.

Is Mandel a neo-con????

Didn't Landslide Annie get elected a few times and even become deputy PM?????

I could keep going...that comment was a little interesting bicycles...civic politics (non party) v federal politics...and their requisite spheres of influence...is a little more complex than what you make it appear to be in your rather hasty broad brush.
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Old 05-04-2011, 03:00 PM   #88
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this thread is exactly why Edmonton has fallen so far behind Calgary. They voted for a progressive, liberal, and motivated mayor like Naheed Nenshi
Excellent point...

Yes, Calgary, the birthplace of the Wildrose Alliance party, is more progressive and liberal than Edmonton. Clearly.

If only Edmonton could vote in a progressive, liberal, and motivated mayor, just once... *cough* Lawrence Decore *cough* ...we wouldn't be so far behind Calgary.

I mean Calgary just voted in its first liberal mayor four months ago, and Nenshi has done a hell of a job pulling Calgary so far ahead of Edmonton in that brief time he has been in office. Astounding job, in fact. Almost hard to believe.

And yes, this is exactly why Edmonton has fallen so far behind Calgary. Because everybody in Edmonton always votes to the right... unlike "socialist" Calgary.
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Old 05-04-2011, 03:11 PM   #89
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those are all great points, but you're comparing Federal politics with municipal and provincial ones. They're much different.

I'm not arguing that what political affiliation a city votes for represents the views of the city, I'm saying that the lack of vision exhibited in this thread is the reason Edmonton has fallen behind.
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Old 05-04-2011, 03:21 PM   #90
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wow, who knew the left wing followers could be just as viscous as the right wing supporters. who said Canadian politics isnt exciting... well humorous at least....

(in case it didnt come through that was a jab at the ridiculously overzealous nature of both sides of the poli-spectrum, never made more evident than right here)
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Old 05-04-2011, 03:31 PM   #91
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wow, who knew the left wing followers could be just as viscous as the right wing supporters.

There is no shortage of haters among supporters of any party.
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Old 05-04-2011, 03:32 PM   #92
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I am concerned about the manner in which Harper governs.

The Harper government is about control of access, control of communications, and centralization of power away from the legislature and even the away from the cabinet.

It's part of a trend centralizing power in the PMO that began as far back as Trudeau. Harper is taking it to new extremes and masking it with the smaller government banner. They shrink the number of things the government does while tightly controlling access to everything else. It's also a policy that's completely at odds with his previous campaign on government accountability.

Harper runs his campaigns the same way. He takes no risks and tightly controls every contact with the public or the media. In the referenced case the two people in question were barred from an event for attending a Liberal event. They didn't have signs, they weren't heckling, they hadn't done anything wrong except have their picture taken with wrong person.

I have no doubt that in many ways Harper is running an effective government. Total control can be a very effective way to run a country but it does so at the cost of democracy. During the last 40 years of Canadian politics democracy has been the frog in a pot of water, never realizing that the temperature is slowly climbing to a boil. Harper has turned up the heat.

So personally I don't care how well he runs the country. He is eroding the basic building blocks of government, gradually moving everything behind closed doors, removing whatever checks and balances an open parliament provides. In the long term this is not good for the country.
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Old 05-04-2011, 03:39 PM   #93
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Here's the point.

Economically by certain measures the Liberal government of 1993-2004 was very effective, but it became more and more corrupt until it imploded, fell, and was swept away.

Back in 2004 -- I remember arguing with Liberal supporters -- the question was, how can a decent person support Liberal filth?

They could not.

In 2011, regardless of economic performance and what not, the question now is, how can a decent person support Conservative filth?

They can't.

But so many do.

Is the situation -- that every few years the party in power becomes too corrupt -- sad? Who cares! It is what it is.

And the fact that practically everyone on what for years and years I though was "my side" is willing to put up with Harper says nothing good about them.

The Liberals who vacated their party in 2004 are morally better people than the remaining Conservatives today. Or WERE better, if they are still Conservative now.
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Old 05-04-2011, 03:42 PM   #94
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Oh, and for the people who believe that all politicians are corrupt, Liberals, Conservatives and the rest. The consolidation of power behind the closed door of the PMO should scare you more than most. If we accept that politics corrupts then we want it operating in the open as much as possible.
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Old 05-04-2011, 04:04 PM   #95
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I'm with Paul Turnbull here. Too many people are confusing control freak tendencies and centralization of power with leadership. When I saw the conservative attack ads last time around I mentally replaced "Stephan Dion - not a leader" with "Stephan Dion - not control freak" or "Stephan Dion - not an (insert expletive here)". Seemed to fit much better that way.

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^Well, I referred to that link just to show you how long Liberal corruption goes back. You could look up more current Liberal corruption if you want. There is plenty of it on the net.
Like I said, I don't want to vote for the visiting professor. If Iggy does not win this election let's ask the question 'Where will he be a year from now'. Place your bets now.
So? Leaders that don't get results get replaced. That's what happens in politics. If Harper can't at least maintain a Conservative minority he will be the one looking for a new job.

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Old 05-04-2011, 04:12 PM   #96
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We shall have to see if the Conservatives are re-elected. As for the Liberals. How far ahead have they got in the last couple of years. They replaced Stephane Dion with visiting professor Iggy who on any given day does not seem to know if he wants to buy a horse or join the army. Nobody wants an election. It's the 4th. one in seven years. This is happening because the Libs, NDP & Bloc have stopped any attempts of the governing party going forward. They have formed coalitions anytime it has suited them. There platforms are old chestnuts that they have been spouting since Hector was a pup. Another minority government, say it isn't so.
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Old 05-04-2011, 04:24 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
Nobody wants an election. It's the 4th. one in seven years.
Nitpick: The majority of the elected representatives in Parliament want an election. If the majority of Canadians are really unhappy about that they will elect a majority. Same deal as last time when the same hew and cry about too many elections. Harpers complaints about it are solely tactics. If Harper had been interested in avoiding an election he would have made more of an effort to work with the majority of the elected representatives in Parliament.
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Old 05-04-2011, 04:33 PM   #98
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^It's an election. Someone has got to win, someone has got to loose. Now, if the opposition parties can except that and let the reigning government govern we might actually move forward. After this election if the winning party gets in with a minority do you want the dog and pony show to continue. It's a minority, let's form a coalition and force another vote. That's nitpicking.
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Old 05-04-2011, 04:40 PM   #99
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I'm not tired of elections. In our parliamentary system majority governments are 4 years of dictatorship punctuated my short periods of politicians making promises they won't be able to keep. Yes, there has been a lot of opposition for the sake of opposition since 2004, but most of that has been driven by the parties (including the Conservatives) thinking they have a chance for a majority. When a majority seems out of reach for everyone, compromises are made and representative democracy happens. An excellent argument for ending the possibility of majority government with proportional representation.

I'm also not scared of coalitions. In the last three parliaments, a coalition including either the Liberals or Conservatives with any other party would have represented more voters than the leading party alone. Democracy in action again.
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Old 05-04-2011, 04:46 PM   #100
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Reading this thread is poisonous.

Yes, the Liberals are guilty of corruption in the past and no one is really sure how a guy who just moved back to Canada less than 6 years ago, who has the personality of a cactus managed to get the leadership role.

Yes, the Conservatives are guilty of following directly in their footsteps. The G20, in and out scandal, the Bev Oda affair, the fights with Elections Canada, the no bid purchase of F35's, and our involvement in Afghanistan.

Neither of those parties deserve votes. Also, if you think the Conservatives are fiscally responsible, then you're nuts.

PS. You're supposed to be voting for the representative in your riding. Not the party leader, we're not the US.
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