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Old 12-12-2013, 08:55 AM   #1501
Medwards
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I'll give you points that they are not a 'true' winter tire

I'm going to deduct points because I've had cheap winter tires in the past, and these are better than cheap winter tires. And they are many folds better than any all-season tires I've had (Ya, I've been converted to a believer at some point). As nobleea points out, they were designed with winter in mind, and a compromise for everything else.

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Old 12-12-2013, 08:55 AM   #1502
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(...)
And besides, even if we all had winter tires, do you honestly think it will improve the driving in this town?

They still drive like crap.

LOL...

seriously though...while the tire won't cure some of these road warriors of their desire to roar through things...or know that they have such crappy traction that they become slow moving pylons in the middle of all lanes...

...at least it would give them a bit of an advantage to compensate for some of their stupidity...an extra layer of insurance per se...

Yes...you can't cure stupid (especially this winter if you are a Dodge Ram driver...more of them rolled in the ditch this year than any other vehicle)...but at least I can give me a fighting chance to avoid stupid...
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:02 AM   #1503
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In this crazy city, getting out your quad and ploughing city streets and sidewalks is viewed by the COE and St. Albert as an offence that warrants prosecution rather than a neighbourly thing to do.

(...)Related thread http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...ad.php?t=34477
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Liability risk due to exposure of risk of damage to publicly owned assets
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^ Greater than the liability risk due to accumulated snow and ice not being removed in a timely fashion?

Actually, and unfortunately...yes.

Trust me...being in the physical perdiciament I find myself in, I would personally applaud the ATV person...

...back in the rural world, it was not uncommon to see a local farmer fire up the Versatile...drop the blade and at least get the school routes clean until the graders hit...and neighbors with the bobcat or ATV helping each other out...

...but the same issue was there too...if rural Rob pranged someone's light pole, well, there may be a discussion on who pays for it...no good deed goes unpunished per se...

...same in the suburban and even urban setting...if you prang a hidden box, hydrant, switch, cover a drain, etc...who is liable? If you don't clean to the "standard"...and someone slips...guess what...that person's lawyer is going to sue you along with everyone else! It just spirals from there...

...been hanging out with too many Personal Injury lawyers lately...sigh.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:12 AM   #1504
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Subaru (which has real AWD plus engine with lower centre of gravity)
+ Nokian WRG2 all-weathers
+ defensive driving
= I laugh at other drivers
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:15 AM   #1505
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Nice tires...but "real" AWD and a low centre of gravity does not equal AWS (All Wheel Stop).

...all AWD does is launch better...
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:18 AM   #1506
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FWIW, I'm running General Tire 'Slalom' winter tires on my Jimmy - not worth the proverbial w@nk.
LOL...too funny...ran a set of Generals on my better half's Jimmy one year too...

Atrocious..

In fact, between Dunlop and General...I don't know which were worse...
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:23 AM   #1507
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Nice tires...but "real" AWD and a low centre of gravity does not equal AWS (All Wheel Stop).

...all AWD does is launch better...
No, but I find it works a lot better in these conditions than most other cars. I live in the river valley, and with my previous FWD I always had a hard time climbing up Bellamy Hill or McDougall Hill Road on a snow day. With my current ride, no problem!
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:25 AM   #1508
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I used to live on Bellamy hill and had a mid 90's corolla. I have never had a issue on edm roads ever.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:34 AM   #1509
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@SDM...I've had all kinds of vehicles...and truthfully, AWD just launches better. I've ploughed through many roads with FWD, RWD, AWD, and 4WD...

Same tire.

FWD has better weight distribution for most drivers...but understeer and oversteer are...well...understeer and oversteer...

AWD/4WD (grouped because the difference is more for fanboys/girls arguing...no difference in this snow context)...I could launch like crazy...but stopping distances were actually worse in many cases...and understeer/oversteer...you were still FUBAR.

RWD...crappy to launch...yes, hills without the right weight in the back were a concern...got into under/oversteer issues on slush/ice easier...but I could actually recover better...


Would I take 4WD/AWD in these conditions...definitely! I agree that you can get that extra bit of acceleration and grip to avoid the accident...
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:52 AM   #1510
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Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
Subaru (which has real AWD plus engine with lower centre of gravity)
+ Nokian WRG2 all-weathers
+ defensive driving
= I laugh at other drivers
Ford Fusion + AWD
+ Nokian WRG2 all-weathers
+ defensive driving
= I laugh at other drivers
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:54 AM   #1511
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Nice tires...but "real" AWD and a low centre of gravity does not equal AWS (All Wheel Stop).

...all AWD does is launch better...
True - but it also provides better stablity, and your able to deal with slippage a lot better while cornering/changing lanes/skid recovery.

AWD does nothing to help you stop
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:07 AM   #1512
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I didn't say anything about AWD being good for stopping - that requires defensive driving skills and common sense behind the wheel.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:13 AM   #1513
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I find that people get their 4x4 and then they get stupid or cocky. Thusly making them more dangerous... if not to that person than to others on the road.

It may also explaine what collision rates on trucks and suv are often higher than a car class auto.
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:58 PM   #1514
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I didn't say anything about AWD being good for stopping - that requires defensive driving skills and common sense behind the wheel.
...my point was this...

people always bring up AWD/4WD as some kind of saviour...

...but often, it emboldens them...and they do silly things...like think AWD/4WD = AWS/4WS...

...or drive faster than the conditions warrant...AWD is not a license to be less cautious..in fact...AWD once you've lost it is actually harder to recover from...and some of the cheap AWD/4WD systems are an absolute nightmare...

I just always bring up that point when AWD comes up...for even today on my drive out to a client site...4 vehicles in the ditch...all 4WD/AWD...one Audi...and 3 Ram trucks...
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Old 12-12-2013, 02:00 PM   #1515
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AWD and/or snow tires are not a licence to drive stupid. Anyone who thinks that deserves the ditch they will end up in shortly.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:08 PM   #1516
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^One winter saw a collision on ice where a Suzuki 4x4 slammed into the back of an ETS bus. I guess the ***** did not realize that a 4x4 has no better brakes than any other vehicle. I drive 10 blocks and there sits another ETS bus that had another Suzuki 4x4 trying to mate with it.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:44 PM   #1517
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4WD + a manual transmission does mean that you have better control over your deceleration

One of the things that I am sad about getting rid of my old Tacoma is because the 4WD + manual trans + hi/lo range transfer case made the truck practically invincible in any conditions. I've pushed snow up over the front bumper with the old goat.

But I took delivery of my "new to me" 2010 Tacoma quad cab 4wd TRD last night.. it's gorgeous but it's an auto so I will be putting winters on it.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:26 PM   #1518
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in fact...AWD once you've lost it is actually harder to recover from...and some of the cheap AWD/4WD systems are an absolute nightmare...

I just always bring up that point when AWD comes up...for even today on my drive out to a client site...4 vehicles in the ditch...all 4WD/AWD...one Audi...and 3 Ram trucks...
O'RLY?

I counted 5 non AWD vehicles in the ditch on the way home so my anectodal evidence trumps yours.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:47 PM   #1519
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Someone told me about putting my vehicle in neutral.

Since I have a FWD manual transmission, I tried that today and works like a charm.

This helps all 4 wheels stop all at once. Yesterday my car got caught on an icey patch and clicked on the abs as pedestrians were crossing. I wasn't even going that fast either.

Today was annoying but better.

Only saw 3 vehicles in an accident on 104st tonight. 2 vehicles I believe were and suv and a truck and the third a sedan.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:47 PM   #1520
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Nope...

...cause if AWD is all wheel awesome....the tally should have been other cars 9...AWD 0 in the ditch.

I'll count X5 for every AWD car...just 'cause it is supposed to be invincible.... . Lol
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Old 13-12-2013, 11:13 AM   #1521
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Best drivetrain is NWD.
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Old 13-12-2013, 12:37 PM   #1522
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Best drivetrain is NWD.
Does the NWD come standard with a hipster murse or is that an extra cost?
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Old 13-12-2013, 01:37 PM   #1523
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I am being serious here.

Not having to drive by purposefully eliminating/reducing one of the worst things about winter is one of the best decisions I have made. No not everyone can do that, but I don't know why so many choose to put that upon themselves each and every day.
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Old 13-12-2013, 01:45 PM   #1524
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Best drivetrain is NWD.
Nuclear Warp Drive?
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Old 13-12-2013, 01:45 PM   #1525
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...because it is the reality Ian...

Sidewalks are a mess here...our employment base is extremely dispersed throughout the city...and there is a large desire to NOT live in an inverted egg crate - especially when baby makes 3, 4, 5...

"Not everyone" should be reworded to "not many" can do that...it is the reality no matter how much urbanites wish it to be otherwise. Sure, some can do as you have, some can cycle (but traction and snow clearing are still major concerns)...but you should know since you rightly embrace a winter city strategy...

...winter means winter driving...unless that toboggan hill you love is right outside your condo balcony...

Once in awhile or once every day...you need to prep your vehicle for the conditions expected. So, NWD is not an option for far too many...unless NWD means we've arrived at the land speeders from Star Wars....or shuttles a la Star Trek...
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Old 13-12-2013, 01:47 PM   #1526
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I am being serious here.

Not having to drive by purposefully eliminating/reducing one of the worst things about winter is one of the best decisions I have made. No not everyone can do that, but I don't know why so many choose to put that upon themselves each and every day.
Agreed. I live close enough to work that in the winter I walk when I can, bus otherwise, and drive if there's no other choice. When I have to drive, like yesterday, it amazes me that people do it every day and stay sane.
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Old 13-12-2013, 02:00 PM   #1527
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...because it is the reality Ian...

Sidewalks are a mess here...our employment base is extremely dispersed throughout the city...and there is a large desire to NOT live in an inverted egg crate - especially when baby makes 3, 4, 5...

"Not everyone" should be reworded to "not many" can do that...it is the reality no matter how much urbanites wish it to be otherwise. Sure, some can do as you have, some can cycle (but traction and snow clearing are still major concerns)...but you should know since you rightly embrace a winter city strategy...

...winter means winter driving...unless that toboggan hill you love is right outside your condo balcony...

Once in awhile or once every day...you need to prep your vehicle for the conditions expected. So, NWD is not an option for far too many...unless NWD means we've arrived at the land speeders from Star Wars....or shuttles a la Star Trek...
Obviously Richard and as stated I understand not everybody can give up their car the majority of the time, but I am honestly surprised more don't choose to.

Winter driving might be THE worst part about winter, studded tires on a Subaru STI or not.
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Old 13-12-2013, 02:01 PM   #1528
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Quote:
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Best drivetrain is NWD.
Nuclear Warp Drive?
No Wheel Drive
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Old 13-12-2013, 02:22 PM   #1529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanO View Post
I am being serious here.

Not having to drive by purposefully eliminating/reducing one of the worst things about winter is one of the best decisions I have made. No not everyone can do that, but I don't know why so many choose to put that upon themselves each and every day.
Agreed. I live close enough to work that in the winter I walk when I can, bus otherwise, and drive if there's no other choice. When I have to drive, like yesterday, it amazes me that people do it every day and stay sane.
Ditto. Winter commuting requires a little more planning but not much else. And the decreased aggravation coupled with increased physical effort equals a better nights sleep.
For the record: family of four, no egg crate (bungalow), central neighbourhood, no physical hindrance, just a stroller.
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Old 13-12-2013, 02:23 PM   #1530
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I am being serious here.

Not having to drive by purposefully eliminating/reducing one of the worst things about winter is one of the best decisions I have made. No not everyone can do that, but I don't know why so many choose to put that upon themselves each and every day.
Hence why I moved to the suburbs. I walk/ride my bike....25 mins/7mins. I originally moved downtown in hopes of securing employment with a downtown employer, but my last 3 jobs have all been out past the inner ring road, so I choose to move closer to work, instead of constantly doing the reverse commute from the core to work. I guess what I'm trying to say by this is you don't have to live/work downtown to have this opportunity.
The first thing I ask when anyone complains about their commute is "why do you live so far away"

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Old 13-12-2013, 02:24 PM   #1531
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Ha, for me NWD means No Way Downtown. I had enough of that in one really major city. Been there, done that.
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Old 13-12-2013, 02:25 PM   #1532
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^exactly. I honestly do not know how or why I commuted 45mins each way for 5years to a job.
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Old 13-12-2013, 03:45 PM   #1533
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^exactly. I honestly do not know how or why I commuted 45mins each way for 5years to a job.
i'm pretty sure the "how or why" in the middle of your sentence are both pretty accurately answered by the last two words in your sentence: "a job"...
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Old 13-12-2013, 11:31 PM   #1534
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Ian, what do you do if your job gets moved to a location out on the fringes. The chances of it being on a direct transit link where you step off the LRT or bus and straight into work would be fairly slim. Hypothetical question, maybe, but it's always good to have a Plan B.
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Old 14-12-2013, 11:26 AM   #1535
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So more snow in the mix in the next few days.

We finally get a break and we're expecting freezing rain.

Can't catch a break with this weather.

Oh, as for the snow clearing, The city has a website that has scheduling snow blading, but every location shows TBD. Pretty useless if you ask me.

As for the roads, instead of AWD, I wish hover cars are invented and avoid the roads all-together.

Or perhaps a city wide dome to keep the snow out. That will cut the blading cost.

But seriously, this snow is getting too much.

Over 100cms so far and winter hasn't begun.

I hate to see what happens after January.
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Old 14-12-2013, 11:30 AM   #1536
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Ian, what do you do if your job gets moved to a location out on the fringes. The chances of it being on a direct transit link where you step off the LRT or bus and straight into work would be fairly slim. Hypothetical question, maybe, but it's always good to have a Plan B.
I would honestly find a new job centrally/downtown. Very few jobs would be worth a change ^in lifestyle.
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Old 14-12-2013, 12:27 PM   #1537
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So more snow in the mix in the next few days.

We finally get a break and we're expecting freezing rain.

Can't catch a break with this weather.

Oh, as for the snow clearing, The city has a website that has scheduling snow blading, but every location shows TBD. Pretty useless if you ask me.

As for the roads, instead of AWD, I wish hover cars are invented and avoid the roads all-together.

Or perhaps a city wide dome to keep the snow out. That will cut the blading cost.

But seriously, this snow is getting too much.

Over 100cms so far and winter hasn't begun.

I hate to see what happens after January.
TBD means that they have not determined when residential blading will start. This will not happen until bus routes and collectors have been cleared.
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Old 14-12-2013, 12:43 PM   #1538
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I hate to see what happens after January.
I'm more worried about what will happen if this snow rate continues till late march/april and then we suddenly get a fast melt. All the mountains are getting tons of snow too it seems.
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Old 14-12-2013, 01:00 PM   #1539
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a little off topic but with so much snow is there a chance for more flooding this spring/early summer down south?

on topic maybe my memory is bad but i dont feel like this is an above normal amount of snow. i remember many years shoveling 2-3 times a day
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Old 14-12-2013, 01:45 PM   #1540
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I hate to see what happens after January.
I'm more worried about what will happen if this snow rate continues till late march/april and then we suddenly get a fast melt. All the mountains are getting tons of snow too it seems.
Like the rain in Spain, this year's snowfall seems to be falling mainly on the plain.

Mountain snowfall amounts can be tracked here and so far they seem like nothing special: http://www.environment.alberta.ca/fo...cdatarank.html

Marmot claims to have a packed base of 46 cm which is also nothing special for this time of year. The mountain ski resorts have this annoying habit of confusing centimetres with millimeters, at least when it comes to the amount of packed snow on their runs.
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Old 14-12-2013, 02:12 PM   #1541
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a little off topic but with so much snow is there a chance for more flooding this spring/early summer down south?
The floods in Southern Alberta were mainly caused by 2 or 3 straight days of heavy rain in the Rockies.
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Old 14-12-2013, 02:23 PM   #1542
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a little off topic but with so much snow is there a chance for more flooding this spring/early summer down south?
The floods in Southern Alberta were mainly caused by 2 or 3 straight days of heavy rain in the Rockies.
The large snow pack that was melting also had a lot to do with it, the rivers were already high when they got all that rain.
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Old 14-12-2013, 02:43 PM   #1543
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a little off topic but with so much snow is there a chance for more flooding this spring/early summer down south?

on topic maybe my memory is bad but i dont feel like this is an above normal amount of snow. i remember many years shoveling 2-3 times a day

I don't see this as above "average" either....

Out west...I can remember year after year of drifts and snow pack much deeper than the past 10 years...and the snow pack out there is nowhere near amazing levels IMO. It will depend on what happens in late Feb/early March when we get those wet blasts...
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Old 14-12-2013, 06:21 PM   #1544
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The biggest change that I noticed is that years ago, the winds mostly came from the NW and we had more wind creating large drifts, sometimes 6 ft high between the houses. You would shovel the snow off your sidewalk and a few hours later the sidewalk channel you created would be completely drifted in again. Most of the winds seem to come more from the SE and I don't see that drifting snow in recent years
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Old 15-12-2013, 10:33 PM   #1545
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I think the front ranges of the Rockies are a little sparse right now with the prairies getting the bulk of the snow. Marmot and Louise are sitting in the meter range for total snowfall. Go back a little farther and they're getting more. Fernie already has a total of over three metres and Revy is over three as well, although these are normal numbers for those areas this time of year.

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Over 100cms so far and winter hasn't begun.
Up here real winter starts long before Winter Solstice.
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Old 16-12-2013, 05:34 AM   #1546
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The sand is for the people who can't be bother to buy Winter tires, or even worse, not even properly inflate their three-seasons...
^BS! my "all seasons" have worked just fine in the snow and ice of now winter #5. they plow through deep snow like they are winter tires and give me a decent grip on the ice.
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Old 16-12-2013, 07:48 AM   #1547
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The sand is for the people who can't be bother to buy Winter tires, or even worse, not even properly inflate their three-seasons...
^BS! my "all seasons" have worked just fine in the snow and ice of now winter #5. they plow through deep snow like they are winter tires and give me a decent grip on the ice.
I'm sure you realize that the rubber compound in all-season tires becomes as hard as hockey puck below -7 ?? Where as Winter radials have a compound that is able to stay softer and provide traction...
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Old 16-12-2013, 09:16 AM   #1548
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I really would like to see some downtown sidewalks worked on today. Had a fun walk to work that was parts icy and parts slushy. Makes me wanna drive to work instead.
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Old 16-12-2013, 11:08 AM   #1549
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Old 16-12-2013, 01:00 PM   #1550
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The sand is for the people who can't be bother to buy Winter tires, or even worse, not even properly inflate their three-seasons...
No, sand is for ice that no tire in the world (except the spikey kind) handles very well. Because you know.... it's ice.

Where do you come up with this ****, dude?
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Old 16-12-2013, 01:28 PM   #1551
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My fiancée slipped and fell on an icy sidewalk on her way into work this morning and had to be taken in an ambulance on a backboard to the hospital. She has a concussion at least, and I'm awaiting word on her status.

A reminder to all to tend to the sidewalks in front of your homes and businesses.
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Old 16-12-2013, 01:30 PM   #1552
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The sand is for the people who can't be bother to buy Winter tires, or even worse, not even properly inflate their three-seasons...
No, sand is for ice that no tire in the world (except the spikey kind) handles very well. Because you know.... it's ice.

Where do you come up with this ****, dude?
outside of Saturday night, I haven't seen the need for sand yet... And yes, Winter tires do handle a lot better on ice/snow and in the cold than all-season or summer tires. Are you actually questioning that, dude?
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Old 16-12-2013, 01:35 PM   #1553
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You're implying that sand wouldn't be needed if we all drove with winter tires and had properly inflated tires and that's simply not true.

And you're not realizing that even before Saturday some intersections (usually smaller, neighborhood ones) turn into sheer ice. But hey - if I had winter tires on I could drive like it was summer on that ice!
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Old 16-12-2013, 01:37 PM   #1554
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We could get away with a small fraction of the sand we use, for sure. I never have problems driving before the sanding trucks have hit the roads.
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Old 16-12-2013, 01:44 PM   #1555
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Yeah, I don't think we need sand everywhere, that I'll agree with. But most intersections, for the most part, do require some sand.

And FWIW, my front wheel drive 1997 Buick LeSabre, does quite well on these lousy roads.
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Old 16-12-2013, 01:50 PM   #1556
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front wheel drives aren't the problem.
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Old 16-12-2013, 02:18 PM   #1557
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Sand and gravel should be a backup measure, used sparingly and only when a thin layer of ice is too strongly adhered to the road to be plowed off and it is too cold to melt it with salt. It should be heated before being loaded into the trucks so that it can melt into the ice then freeze in place.
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Old 16-12-2013, 02:24 PM   #1558
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^ I wish you were running the department.
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Old 16-12-2013, 09:55 PM   #1559
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Would it be possible for the City to deal with slop downtown a bit better? parking stalls and loading zones were brutal, as was trying to cross the street... Maybe we should all just pedway I guess.
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Old 16-12-2013, 10:04 PM   #1560
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It is very bad
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Old 16-12-2013, 10:54 PM   #1561
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Why is the area in front of Scotia not cleared all the way to the street? Why is the bench area and then as a result the curb lane, full of snow still?
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Old 17-12-2013, 07:02 AM   #1562
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I was in Ottawa after a major 10" dump of snow on Sunday. All the roads were plowed including in residential areas 24 hours after the storm. All the business parking lots too before employees went back to work Monday morning. Some lanes on arterial roads and bridges have lost a lane but they are busy hauling them away and I bet they were done on Monday night. The plowing was intense and side streets were narrowed but they plowed down to the pavement and there were patches of packed snow that were easy going. They use salt here but it appears they use the salt only on arterial roads and collectors. I saw no indications of them using salt or sand on the remaining packed snow on side streets. In one parking lot the private contractor put salt and stone chips on the packed snow and it turned it into the Edmonton oatmeal that we all hate.
It is about -15 to-20C here so it is very Edmonton like conditions.

They use far more front end loaders with wide snow pushers or snow plows and side blades which IMHO clear a wider patch at twice the speed of a grader and are much more maneuverable. The blades or pushers are often mounted on springs so they float over the pavement rather than the rigid mould-boards of graders. One of these seem to work as fast as three graders and they can make snow into piles too.





One of the most unique things I saw was a snow removal operation along parked cars. Instead of using two or three very expensive graders to push the plowed 2 ft high windrow into the center of the lane for the snow blower to load trucks, I saw them use a single articulated snow plow like you see on Edmonton sidewalks, on the street, plowing the snow away from cars very efficiently. So they used only two workers to load many trucks.

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Old 17-12-2013, 08:24 AM   #1563
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... In one parking lot the private contractor put salt and stone chips on the packed snow and it turned it into the Edmonton oatmeal that we all hate.
It is about -15 to-20C here so it is very Edmonton like conditions.
Hopefully they don't pack up and move here when they can't get any more Ottawa jobs because of their substandard service.



The side plow on that loader could push snow across sidewalks or up onto boulevards. I have seen similar attachments on plow trucks too. We need some here.

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One of the most unique things I saw was a snow removal operation along parked cars. Instead of using two or three very expensive graders to push the plowed 2 ft high windrow into the center of the lane for the snow blower to load trucks, I saw them use a single articulated snow plow like you see on Edmonton sidewalks, on the street, plowing the snow away from cars very efficiently. So they used only two workers to load many trucks.
Edmonton uses graders even when the windrow is in the middle of the street. I saw it sunday night on 95 St - instead of simply running the snowblower down the middle of the street to load the windrow into trucks, time and money was being wasted having two graders move the windrow to the side first.
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Old 17-12-2013, 08:57 AM   #1564
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Much of 104st/99ave you cannot even park within 2-3' of the meter.

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Old 17-12-2013, 09:05 AM   #1565
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Welcome to what the rest of the city looks like?
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Old 17-12-2013, 09:06 AM   #1566
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I recognize that, but this area is incredibly dense and has a lot of metered traffic/FEDEX etc... it should be cleared ASAP, but will not see neighbourhood blading.

Stupid
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Old 17-12-2013, 09:06 AM   #1567
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Edmonton uses graders even when the windrow is in the middle of the street. I saw it sunday night on 95 St - instead of simply running the snowblower down the middle of the street to load the windrow into trucks, time and money was being wasted having two graders move the windrow to the side first.
I have seen that many times as well, pushing windrows from one side to another. Even in early spring when snow is beginning to melt and there is little for crews to clean up, I have also seen in industrial areas the graders extending their mould boards to the extreme right to take the windrow off from the grass covered curb that was not interfering with anything and put it back onto the street and blow it into trucks to be hauled away. A complete waste of resources.


I took this picture in March 2011 of them doing this. They had 5 graders to make this small windrow!
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Old 17-12-2013, 10:15 AM   #1568
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I was in Ottawa after a major 10" dump of snow on Sunday. All the roads were plowed including in residential areas 24 hours after the storm. All the business parking lots too before employees went back to work Monday morning. Some lanes on arterial roads and bridges have lost a lane but they are busy hauling them away and I bet they were done on Monday night. The plowing was intense and side streets were narrowed but they plowed down to the pavement and there were patches of packed snow that were easy going. They use salt here but it appears they use the salt only on arterial roads and collectors. I saw no indications of them using salt or sand on the remaining packed snow on side streets. In one parking lot the private contractor put salt and stone chips on the packed snow and it turned it into the Edmonton oatmeal that we all hate.
It is about -15 to-20C here so it is very Edmonton like conditions.

They use far more front end loaders with wide snow pushers or snow plows and side blades which IMHO clear a wider patch at twice the speed of a grader and are much more manoeuvrable. The blades or pushers are often mounted on springs so they float over the pavement rather than the rigid mould-boards of graders. One of these seem to work as fast as three graders and they can make snow into piles too.





One of the most unique things I saw was a snow removal operation along parked cars. Instead of using two or three very expensive graders to push the plowed 2 ft high windrow into the center of the lane for the snow blower to load trucks, I saw them use a single articulated snow plow like you see on Edmonton sidewalks, on the street, plowing the snow away from cars very efficiently. So they used only two workers to load many trucks.

We lived back East for many years including winter vacations in Ontario, Quebec, and the Maritimes. Many areas with tonnes of snow. Most municipalities know how to efficiently handle the white stuff and in larger centres, bladed down to the tarmac, windrows removed.
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Old 17-12-2013, 10:29 AM   #1569
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Much of 104st/99ave you cannot even park within 2-3' of the meter.

WOW! Certainly enough sand on the snow to improve traction!

When I was in Winnipeg last week (see that post) the streets of downtown were all cleared and the windrows ALL removed within a day or so.

There is no excuse for these conditions, none whatsoever.

IanO, that is a perfect picture of the problem. Especially since in the past two weeks there has not been much additional snowfall.
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Old 17-12-2013, 10:32 AM   #1570
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I love how in the last couple of weeks, you've travelled all of the streets in their entirety of downtown Montreal, Ottawa and Winnipeg. That's a lot of km.
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Old 17-12-2013, 10:44 AM   #1571
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Who said entirety? Yes, I am in Montreal as we speak. Ottawa at my to visit my brother and Winnipeg for my father's funeral. Been also recently in Chicago, NYC, Denver, Salt Lake City and Minneapolis. Is there a problem?
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Old 17-12-2013, 11:12 AM   #1572
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I just wonder how you can make the assertions that all the roads in each of those cities have been cleared as much as you say they have. Did you travel down all the side roads like this pictured? I can tell you the main roads look nothing like this.
I have no problems with your travels, and the personal details you have submitted were at your own choice.
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Old 17-12-2013, 11:42 AM   #1573
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I would have no problem parking there. But then again I have the right vehicle for our environment

The sidewalks look about the same as the one leading down 84th st to the stadium LRT. Which has city owned property flanking it and the same amount of pedestrian traffic. So I'd say that eaqual attention is being paid to areas with equal traffic
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Old 17-12-2013, 11:55 AM   #1574
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I just wonder how you can make the assertions that all the roads in each of those cities have been cleared as much as you say they have. Did you travel down all the side roads like this pictured? I can tell you the main roads look nothing like this.
104th street is hardly a side road. It is in the downtown city core. I was through much of Winnipeg's downtown core 10 days ago immediately after the same storm that hit Edmonton. There was not a single street in my travels there that even remotely resembled the mess in IanO's picture. Are you going to accuse IanO of cherry picking the conditions in Edmonton?
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Old 17-12-2013, 01:25 PM   #1575
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There was nopt a single street in my travels there that even remotely resembled the mess in IanO's picture. Are you going to accuse IanO of cherry picking the conditions in Edmonton?
IanO would never cherry pick things to attempt to make a point. Never.
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Old 17-12-2013, 02:14 PM   #1576
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^I will provide more evidence for you.


never...
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Old 17-12-2013, 02:33 PM   #1577
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The residential blading schedule is now posted on the City's website. Cool new interactive map in case you forgot where you live:http://www.edmonton.ca/transportatio...aring-map.aspx

Hopefully, the City will be able to keep to the schedule this time around.
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Old 17-12-2013, 02:34 PM   #1578
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I thought that the city core was a top priority...
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Old 17-12-2013, 02:44 PM   #1579
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^ and what do you think they should do in the city core ? All the roads are alreayd pretty much clear

This is for residential neighborhoods.
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Old 17-12-2013, 03:04 PM   #1580
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^According to the posted schedule, local streets in the Downtown will be done first, tomorrow in fact. Arterials and bus routes in the Downtown should already be done as they are supposed to be done everywhere in the City.
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Old 17-12-2013, 03:36 PM   #1581
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^ and what do you think they should do in the city core ? All the roads are alreayd pretty much clear

This is for residential neighborhoods.
There's windrows all over the place in the middle of roads like 105 street, reducing the available lanes and making for dangerous driving as no one seems to be able to figure out if they should or shouldn't try to drive in the left hand half lane. Or at least there was last night.
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Old 17-12-2013, 04:26 PM   #1582
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And the beauty is, we pay for this ****.... I'm so glad this is my last winter in this ****hole.
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Old 17-12-2013, 05:14 PM   #1583
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The city has time to get rid of the windrows downtown. It may be a lower priority item, but it's great to get rid of them when the weather is warm.
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Old 17-12-2013, 05:37 PM   #1584
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Personally, I've long suspected the city is in cahoots with the tow truck industry.

I realize top-of-the-line snow removal service would be quite expensive and that people in Alberta are rather cheap when it comes to paying for their services. But how much does it cost the city to fix all the road damage caused by improper clearing, having police and fire respond to so many more accidents, and having to get ETS buses towed out all the time? I don't know the numbers, but it seems like it wouldn't actually be much of a cost once those things are factored in.

Again... I'm suspecting there's a conspiracy going on here....

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Old 17-12-2013, 05:52 PM   #1585
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Look at the complaints from the taxi industry when the city was considering introducing transit service to the airport. Yes, I think there's collusion. Much of the DATS service is run by former cab drivers. I'm sure there's resistance to the P3 LRT by the transit union.
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Old 17-12-2013, 07:22 PM   #1586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadzia2000 View Post
So more snow in the mix in the next few days.

We finally get a break and we're expecting freezing rain.

Can't catch a break with this weather.

Oh, as for the snow clearing, The city has a website that has scheduling snow blading, but every location shows TBD. Pretty useless if you ask me.

As for the roads, instead of AWD, I wish hover cars are invented and avoid the roads all-together.

Or perhaps a city wide dome to keep the snow out. That will cut the blading cost.

But seriously, this snow is getting too much.

Over 100cms so far and winter hasn't begun.

I hate to see what happens after January.
TBD means that they have not determined when residential blading will start. This will not happen until bus routes and collectors have been cleared.
Residential snow blading is starting up.

Here's the map and schedule:
http://www.edmonton.ca/transportatio...aring-map.aspx
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Old 17-12-2013, 08:31 PM   #1587
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Why is the area in front of Scotia not cleared all the way to the street? Why is the bench area and then as a result the curb lane, full of snow still?
This also upset me this morning. What an embarrassment for our main drag that was just rebuilt a few months ago. I'll try to snap a pic tomorrow and tweet @doniveson.
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Old 17-12-2013, 08:38 PM   #1588
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^^The city schedule for residential blading should be looked at daily. Last time they did residential blading in our area it was scheduled for Nov. 29th. they did not show. Looked again and it had been re-scheduled for Dec 2nd. If we get more snow that schedule will be re-written.
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Old 17-12-2013, 08:55 PM   #1589
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Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
^^The city schedule for residential blading should be looked at daily. Last time they did residential blading in our area it was scheduled for Nov. 29th. they did not show. Looked again and it had been re-scheduled for Dec 2nd. If we get more snow that schedule will be re-written.
Take a look again, your street has been scheduled for July 7th.
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Old 18-12-2013, 09:15 AM   #1590
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Overall, snow clearing is being done much better this year. The main streets and bus routes have been done quicker than in previous years. The windrows take time to removed. It is not possible to have them all removed in 48 hours and I highly doubt that it is done in I other major cities of comparable size and temperatures. My only critism is the amount of sand and gravel that is used on the main streets. I think a little more road salt should be used.
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Old 18-12-2013, 03:17 PM   #1591
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Here is my what the hell Scotia Place photo:


(Click for Larger if you want)
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Old 18-12-2013, 03:34 PM   #1592
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Maybe because someone made the stupid decision to allow parking there, now during off peak times they can't push the snow onto the street and plow it because there are cars in the way ?

The only person that's going to use those benches in -20 is Ian anyways, he can bring his own shovel :P
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Old 18-12-2013, 03:36 PM   #1593
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I like having parking there for a variety of reasons, but they need to sort out how to manage/operate with the new streetscape.
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Old 18-12-2013, 03:36 PM   #1594
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So if it's inconvenient, it doesn't have to be done anymore?

Who's responsibility is this, Scotia or The City?

(And disagree on the off-peak parking decision, but not the thread for that)
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Old 18-12-2013, 03:47 PM   #1595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
^^The city schedule for residential blading should be looked at daily. Last time they did residential blading in our area it was scheduled for Nov. 29th. they did not show. Looked again and it had been re-scheduled for Dec 2nd. If we get more snow that schedule will be re-written.
Take a look again, your street has been scheduled for July 7th.

Oh, I'll put the bar-be-que on for the snow crew and make burgers.
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Old 19-12-2013, 01:05 AM   #1596
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I'd like to know how the city keeps track of what roads it has bladed. Easily at least 50% of the times they do residential blading, our section of the neighbourhood (Parkallen) gets missed. All last winter, they only did it once (the snow pack got well over a foot deep).

I sometimes call up 311 about it, but I feel like such an old geezer calling up every time they don't clear our roads. Just wonder why we seem to get missed so often.
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Old 19-12-2013, 07:23 AM   #1597
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^ BE the 'old geezer'. Keep on their case. It's a shame more don't actually do that.
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Old 19-12-2013, 10:23 AM   #1598
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IanO View Post
Much of 104st/99ave you cannot even park within 2-3' of the meter.

WOW! Certainly enough sand on the snow to improve traction!

When I was in Winnipeg last week (see that post) the streets of downtown were all cleared and the windrows ALL removed within a day or so.

There is no excuse for these conditions, none whatsoever.

IanO, that is a perfect picture of the problem. Especially since in the past two weeks there has not been much additional snowfall.
Just had word from the City, being graded tonight! I know that they will put no parking on the meters, but I wish they towed cars out of the way as well if required.
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Old 19-12-2013, 10:27 AM   #1599
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Just had City Roadways confirm that a tow truck will be present for any cars.

Well done COE!
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Old 19-12-2013, 11:00 AM   #1600
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We checked out Candy Cane Lane this week. Not really a city responsibility, but wow were the sidewalks bad. I would think that those who live on the street know enough to expect a lot of people walking around, but they were brutal. About 10% of the homes had properly salted/sanded their sidewalks, the rest were deathtraps. Saw 5 people slip and hit the deck in our walk up and down (myself included).
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