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Parks and Recreation Edmonton is a city of parks, including the longest urban park in North America threading through the North Saskatchewan river valley. There are hundreds of parks and recreation areas in the metro region, and this forum offers the opportunity to discuss them, suggest improvements, raise concerns and spread the word.


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Old 30-09-2010, 11:48 AM   #1
IanO
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Default New downtown Park - 105st and 102ave

I thought some of you might be interested to know that the City purchased 'the Scott property' a couple of years ago and we (the downtown community league et al) have started working on some initial planning and ideas for the site. This is very exciting and could make that corner a new destination for the community and downtown workers.

Please post some thoughts as to what you might like to see there or pictures that illustrate the same.

What do you want to see, what should be incorporated, what could be?

Also, please make it known that this is needed, that the City should commit funds to THIS site, and that downtown NEEDS more greenspace.
---------------------------

Site: 105st/102ave - North West Corner





--------------------------

Personally I am a huge fan of Emery Barnes park on the edge of yaletown in Vancouver.


(http://yaletown.ca/wp-content/upload...meryBarnes.gif)


(http://activerain.com/image_store/up...2009603367.jpg)


(http://pricetags.files.wordpress.com...PG?w=248&h=317)


(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5760/p1200711.jpg)
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Old 30-09-2010, 11:50 AM   #2
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I like the last pic.
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Old 30-09-2010, 11:53 AM   #3
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^yup... open and safe yet an oasis of sorts from the urban jungle.
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Old 30-09-2010, 11:54 AM   #4
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I like that park. No fences, no weird hills or anything. 95% usable space, very open and welcoming.

Maybe incorporate a toilet? Drinking fountain? I'd say no to the off leash park... there's enough problems downtown without stupid barking and dog turds.
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Old 30-09-2010, 11:55 AM   #5
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^as a dog owner though, and there are many downtown, it would be nice to have a dedicated space... fenced... separate.
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Old 30-09-2010, 11:56 AM   #6
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Yes!!!!!

Also pet friendly with a off leash area... there are not many green areas for dogs downtown..
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Old 30-09-2010, 12:00 PM   #7
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^Because dogs are crappy pets in crowded spaces. Nobody likes anyone else's dog. Live on a farm? Dogs are fine. Live in the city? Get a cat. They're quiet.
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Old 30-09-2010, 12:10 PM   #8
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^are you kidding? I truly hope so. Keep on topic.

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Old 30-09-2010, 12:16 PM   #9
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Include a bike rack, some of those slim cigarette disposals, and design the benches and any railing to be skateboarder-friendly (ie, grinding won't destroy the object or board).
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Old 30-09-2010, 12:33 PM   #10
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Big fan of that particular park/idea. I'm actually a big fan of anything that makes downtown more "suburban" in a sense. Not to say we need row houses and narrow-winding streets/cul-de-sacs, but simply more walkable, friendly and...fresh? I don't really know how to explain what I mean better than "fresh."
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Old 30-09-2010, 12:36 PM   #11
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Please stay tuned as there will be a survey on www.decl.org for this site.

very exciting, spread the word!
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Old 30-09-2010, 12:38 PM   #12
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^You mean anything other than narrow sidewalks butting up against graffiti covered brick walls surrounded by sterile gravel parking lots?

I think "fresh" is exactly what we need.
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Old 30-09-2010, 12:39 PM   #13
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No fences will be huge. Keep it as open as possible. I like the pictures you have posted so far.
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Old 30-09-2010, 01:11 PM   #14
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To echo the 'open' comment, I have been realizing that the good point someone here made about what's lacking in Beaver Hills Park--it is obstructed from view along Jasper and 105th--applies to Sir Winston Chuchill Square too; what should be a majestic view looking north along 102ave has a whole bunch of Stuff blocking it.

Open! Also think a dogpark is a good idea.
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Old 30-09-2010, 01:16 PM   #15
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I wonder if designers have a hard time balancing the "inviting" aspect of keeping spaces like these open, and the "quiet respite" aspect of blocking out the surroundings?

Obviously, we should be embracing the urban fabric, so blocking things out shouldn't really factor.
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Old 30-09-2010, 01:21 PM   #16
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The first photo with the water feature is fantastic.
An open concept and treed space wouild be an incredible addition to downtown and a compliment to the 104 street market / housing area
Only concern is the current existing employment office north of the site
(West of the Yellowhead brewing co.)
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Old 30-09-2010, 01:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
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The first photo with the water feature is fantastic.
An open concept and treed space wouild be an incredible addition to downtown and a compliment to the 104 street market / housing area
Only concern is the current existing employment office north of the site
(West of the Yellowhead brewing co.)
Indeed, it's a fugly building but not likely to be remodelled anytime soon; I'd recommend planting the largest trees possible along the north end to distract from it's brutal nothingness.
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Old 30-09-2010, 03:58 PM   #18
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My only requests are that the park provide appropriate seating and create good pedestrian movements/connections both within and with the surroundings. One of my pet peeves about public spaces, is that they always seem only to plop one set of benches and think that is enough. Give people the choice to sit down, be it if is a bench or built into a permanent structure. Please make sure that it flows smoothly from the sidewalk, road, whatever.
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Old 30-09-2010, 07:45 PM   #19
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I really hope we can get some great ideas from this thread... please continue to post photos, ideas, and thoughts.

This will be a KEY addition to making the UW (urban warehouse) area more desirable.
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Old 01-10-2010, 10:24 AM   #20
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I would like to see an urban park that focuses on two aspects that the downtown core currently requires:

- Focusing on its functionality during cold months
- Increasing pedestrian activity downtown

While I think an attractive park with greenery/water features would be nice, I worry that it would be severely underutilized during the winter months. It's small size may prevent attracting people for a winter walk (as per the legislature grounds), thus an additional attraction for pedestrians may be necessary.

Based on this I have the following recommendations:

- Focus on using native Alberta plant species, specifically evergreens (lodgepole pine, spruces, juniper bushes, etc.)
- Use of Christmas lighting throughout the snowy months
- Allow (if possible) temporaty commercial structures, such as beverage and junk food stands (I'm thinking of the hot choclate and beaver tail stands they use along the Ottawa canal and during various winter festivals)
- Promotion of small scale events/competitions (ice carving etc.)
- Promoting the parks use for small scale entertainment such as plays, live music; this may be an opportunity to connect with the Grant MacEwan community

Overall, the UW district is very unwelcoming during dark/wintery hours, I think this park could prove that pedestrian activity is viable in this area and the use of limited commercial activity may convince others to set up shop.
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Old 01-10-2010, 10:37 AM   #21
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Lighting is key in this park, regardless of season. See below some examples:


(http://insiderspassport.com/images/t...rk-norfolk.jpg)


(http://www.i-paris.info/images/Paris-Eiffel-night.jpg)

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Old 01-10-2010, 10:49 AM   #22
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" Focusing on its functionality during cold months"

While this does need to be considered, i just don't think it is practical to expect people to sit outside in the winter other than say at hawrelak or the leg.

What we need to do is landscape/design it to look nice even if empty and as above, light it so that it becomes a piece of outdoor art in our darkest of times.
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:46 AM   #23
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A static park may be pleasing to the eye architecturally, but if people merely walk by during the dominant season of this city, is it really a public space? Does it contribute to the quality of life in an urban setting?

I do not expect people to sit on their butts outside during December, however to assume that people do not want to spend time outside during the winter counter-productive and a self-fullfilling prophesy from a planning perspective.

Many cities embrace winter months and plan accordingly. If appripriate activities, events and settings towards winter are developed, people will come.
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:58 AM   #24
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^hence off leash area... sheltered sitting... and common gathering area for community events.
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Old 01-10-2010, 12:31 PM   #25
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The overall footprint of the park is too small to accomodate an off leash dog park along with other civic uses; it would likely serve as a place of peoples pets to defecate. A relatively small park such as this should have a single theme, compartmentalizing it will detract from its overall viability. People first, dogs second. I think this is an opportunity for Edmonton to do something more unique with its civic space.

For example: a city in Sweden constructs a small snow amphitheater each winter, which would be perfect for small venues and be an interesting activity for people. Ensure that wind shelter is incorporated, give people a place to get a hot drink and I think you'd have something pretty special for the city.
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Old 01-10-2010, 12:32 PM   #26
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Quote:
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" Focusing on its functionality during cold months"

While this does need to be considered, i just don't think it is practical to expect people to sit outside in the winter other than say at hawrelak or the leg.

What we need to do is landscape/design it to look nice even if empty and as above, light it so that it becomes a piece of outdoor art in our darkest of times.
This from the guy who wants patios open during the winter?
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Old 01-10-2010, 12:47 PM   #27
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^I have no issues wearing a parka to drink a beer on a patio in winter.

^^Keep in mind that downtown dogs are generally small to medium breeds and do not need much room.
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Old 01-10-2010, 01:23 PM   #28
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A winter patio would be pretty awesome. A few bars in the market area of Ottawa keep there patio's intact year round, although they don't offer drink service (you can order and take outside though).

Overall, we should embrase freezing our assess off. Edmonton is nice in the summer, but it can be just as nice in the winter.

It all about wind shelter.
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Old 01-10-2010, 02:51 PM   #29
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Lots of seating, shade and indigenous trees/plants please. I would love to see a decent sized water feature, something that could be waded into during the summer months and maybe even used for skating during the winter, although the small size of the park would make this difficult. I've always liked the chess and checker boards that are built into some parks, so that would be nice too.

The issue of a space for dogs concerns me a little. I understand that some of my neighbors have dogs and that their dogs have needs, but finding little brown gifts everywhere because of irresponsible pet owners is just disgusting. Beaver Hills already gets assaulted by the local pooches and consequently I'm more than a little leery of the grass in that park. I'm not against dogs, but what could be done to make sure this new park won't become a glorified litter box?
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Old 01-10-2010, 02:53 PM   #30
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Quote:
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^I have no issues wearing a parka to drink a beer on a patio in winter.

^^Keep in mind that downtown dogs are generally small to medium breeds and do not need much room.
Tell that to my neighbor with an Irish Wolf Hound.

Awesome dog though, don't get me wrong. Laid back and super friendly. Loves his ear rubs.
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Old 01-10-2010, 03:04 PM   #31
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Also on the subject of seating: some single-person seating would be nice. Oftentimes you will see single persons out eating lunch in a park, with a book or maybe just taking in the sun. If there was some kind of 1-person seating alongside the typical 3-seat bench, I think it might help keep benches open for groups.

It would be nice if strangers spontaneously shared benches and talked, but the truth is people like personal space, and at some point we've all seen one person occupying a food court 4-seat table. Acknowledge and accommodate the single visitor/user!

I always liked the design/integration of the old 'cube' seats in University LRT station; there were just too few of them.
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Old 01-10-2010, 03:09 PM   #32
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Dogs dont not pick up after themselves, owners dont.

Many people downtown have little furry friends and to have a spot to go would be great! I use McKay avenue park, as do about a dozen owners, but if i lived in the warehouse i would hope that is considered as a component of this.
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Old 01-10-2010, 03:10 PM   #33
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^^^ I think I know the Irish Wolf Hound of which you speak. More of a horse than a dog realy
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Old 01-10-2010, 04:08 PM   #34
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Obviously only about 3mins of work, but this is what i would more or less like to see...

-Water fountain with seating around it
-slightly raised "stage"
-low hedging with seating along the concrete curves
-off leash fenced area at back

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Old 01-10-2010, 04:11 PM   #35
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Nice. And simple too. What happens if we give you 5 more minutes?
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Old 01-10-2010, 04:26 PM   #36
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^^^ I think I know the Irish Wolf Hound of which you speak. More of a horse than a dog realy
Yes, Ulysses is quite the neigbourhood hit...

(Not my dog but I see him around all the time.)
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Old 01-10-2010, 05:18 PM   #37
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elements of this


(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_bR3H0n6Nsv...k+P9300003.JPG)
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Old 01-10-2010, 05:19 PM   #38
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Wind break (Columnar poplars?) around approx 50 feet of north and west corner junctions
Solar mirroring added to the "Fugly Building" angled so as to warm the winter space (Easily done btw)
Extraction of the "client element" from the "Fugly Building" may be the greatest limiting factor to this development
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Old 01-10-2010, 05:21 PM   #39
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^columnar are what i was thinking along the alley wall.

Cherry trees lining 105st with spacing to allow plenty of CPTED.
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Old 01-10-2010, 05:24 PM   #40
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elements


(http://southwaterfront.com/wp/wp-con...2/image-11.jpg)
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Old 01-10-2010, 05:25 PM   #41
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ere-burns.html

"Maybe we shudda tested the solar point design BEFORE we built it ? "
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Old 01-10-2010, 08:46 PM   #42
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Wow ! A lot of great ideas here! I would love to see how this little park in the downtown develops. I hope it is all at street level without any fence/wall/ramps. A public space can be best utilized when there is much visibility and no place (for bums and druggies) to hide. This is why the (otherwise beautiful) Olympic Plaza in DT Calgary doesn't work very well.
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Old 07-10-2010, 10:47 AM   #43
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Great ideas, all of them.

However, the kicker has to be that the City MAINTAIN whatever is built. I'm in Denver right now and every single day I have seen multiple cleanup/maintenance crews around the 16th Street pedestrian mall touching up everything from paver stones to cleaning light standards to putting in new trees.

I can't think of the last time I saw any work being done on RHW let alone on the water feature in Beaver Hills.
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Old 07-10-2010, 11:51 AM   #44
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^Mckay Avenue's park is well maintained.
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Old 07-10-2010, 01:11 PM   #45
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Who owns the property ??
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Old 07-10-2010, 03:41 PM   #46
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The City does if you are referring to 102ave/105st.

another example of a feature i like


(http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/s...tisthc/037.jpg)
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Old 07-10-2010, 04:00 PM   #47
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I too like water features, when they work. Trouble is, around here they seem to spend a LOT of time not working.

I don't have specific ideas for that proposed park. I like the idea of some relief, although you could do that many ways, not just building grassy knolls.

I see, however, that the park will front a low-floor LRT station on its south edge, so that will somehow have to be taken into account.
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Old 07-10-2010, 04:10 PM   #48
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Any water feature either needs to be year-round-multipurpose (City Hall splash&skate pool) or hidden/inconspicuous (sprinkler deck at Federal Building, though some of it is skating too, no?) otherwise it'll stick out as a friendly reminder of our slightly chilly climate for the majority of the year and the exposure will leave it plenty vulnerable to the elements (and the unsavory elements)
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Old 07-10-2010, 04:33 PM   #49
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People really hated the hills in Beaver Hills Park that much?
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Old 07-10-2010, 04:47 PM   #50
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^more what they did for sight-lines, light penetration and the like.

However with that said, it is sad that so many still regard it as the 'drug' park for it is quite pleasant much of the year with far fewer undesirables.
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Old 07-10-2010, 04:49 PM   #51
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Here's what I would like to see:

--- more grass, less concrete.

--- more trees, less water (Edmonton has six months of winter).

--- lots of benches to sit on.

--- lawns but not big enough for frisbee.

--- decorative iron fencing all around, with gates that can be locked and unlocked for the open hours.

---- dense bush to block off the alley. The back side of the buildings is not really all that good to look at.

I like old-fashioned urban parks. Once the trees grow (and they will) few things you see at first glance define a livable city so well.



-------

PS. One last note. It is quite normal for urban pocket parks to go essentially unused in winter. Simply because when it's cold, people run from one door to the next -- and for walking/skiing/skating and any other longer activity, our river valley has it all. Pocket parks are, and should be, a spring/summer/autumn diversion.

I would even have suggested lost of flower beds, as in some civilized places, but I won't. Our society does not consider such colour to be a public good, and would balk at civic public money being spent on such tomfoolery when taxes could be cut or roads made wider. We can't even fund our swimming pools enough to keep them from falling into ruin. So I hope any park they come up with will be as low-maintenance as possible. That's why it should be possible to lock it at night, and another reason elaborate water features should be avoided.

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Old 07-10-2010, 07:52 PM   #52
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I think the park could also serve as an a showpiece for environmental planning in urban areas.

Restricting use to native species can show people that (if well done), such a green space can be far superior to using commercial flower varieties and other species not well adapted to our harsh climate. They would also require far less tending and retain their aesthetic values if such maintenance cannot be afforded.

It would also be interesting to valuate the ecological goods and services offered by such a park. The difference in precipitation retention and cooling in comparison to a surface parking lot would be distinct to say the least.
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Old 07-10-2010, 08:02 PM   #53
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As an example, use Chokecherry instead of Mountain Ash.
Just as pretty, good food for birds, everybody wins.
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Old 07-10-2010, 08:09 PM   #54
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I'm all for that. Perhaps by using native species and the inherent lower maintenance that can be attained more money can be frontloaded into building the park in the first place. Kinda like paying a little extra for a hybrid/electric car. More up front, lower cost over the long run...
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Old 12-10-2010, 10:43 AM   #55
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"--- more trees, less water (Edmonton has six months of winter)."

SO???!?!??!?!!?

I hate that attitude like no other.
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Old 12-10-2010, 11:44 AM   #56
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^Hmmm, OK, fate sends everything you say back at you (I mean at me).

Water takes up space. Is there space for it in a quarter block? --- Nahh, it's OK, I get your point.

I think we just have different vision of what we'd like. Good to know neither one of us will be completely satisfied when (or if) they build it.
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Old 12-10-2010, 12:00 PM   #57
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^water features can be incorporated without taking up ANY space akin to the soon to be north legislature grounds above the parkade.

Water features are magical and can create a white noise in the busiest of urban environments.

They are welcomed by almost all and while we do have winter, there is no reason to not also say we that we do have and should enjoy May-Oct.
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Old 12-10-2010, 12:39 PM   #58
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I feel a water feature is a must. And something interesting, not just another fountain. I've already said this, but regarding this park it tops my list of desires, so I'll say it again. A water feature that can see use year round would be ideal. It doesn't need to be huge to accommodate an activity such as skating during the winter (The lower rink at the ledge isn't) and anything designed to allow people to get wet and cool down makes for a much needed oasis on hot days. Yesterday I took some time to stand at this site and try to imagine what a future park could look/feel like and I was pleasantly surprised by how much bigger the lot felt in person.
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Old 12-10-2010, 12:47 PM   #59
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I feel a water feature is a must. And something interesting, not just another fountain. I've already said this, but regarding this park it tops my list of desires, so I'll say it again. A water feature that can see use year round would be ideal. It doesn't need to be huge to accommodate an activity such as skating during the winter (The lower rink at the ledge isn't) and anything designed to allow people to get wet and cool down makes for a much needed oasis on hot days. Yesterday I took some time to stand at this site and try to imagine what a future park could look/feel like and I was pleasantly surprised by how much bigger the lot felt in person.
I'm in the "water feature will be problematic and truly used for a small portion of the year" camp. So if it has to be a water feature then I say make it a relatively self-contained waterfall with a small pool at it's base that would generate soothing white noise while not necessarily (and personally I would not want it to be) occupying a huge footprint of the space.
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Old 12-10-2010, 05:15 PM   #60
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Something akin to this, but better executed.


(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j...l/IMG_0333.jpg)
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Old 12-10-2010, 07:01 PM   #61
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Yes - the park needs a water feature - regardless that it can't be used year-round.

I say pass on one that you can wade or 'swim' in/skate on in the winter (we don't need any more of those). Create something unique, modern, and nice to look at.
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Old 12-10-2010, 08:11 PM   #62
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Maybe the water feature could be dual function, fountain in summer and small kid friendly ice skating platform in winter. The ledge has one of those. Well lit with maybe a hawerlack park Atco sponsored fire pit to warm up to? I could see my family there in winter when its not below -20C.
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Old 13-10-2010, 09:55 AM   #63
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^the leg has one and Churchill has one. Let's make this park more urban and less for that kind of thing IMO. Open lawn for snow man making
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Old 13-10-2010, 06:25 PM   #64
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I'm all for snowmen making I feel that most parks lack some type of winter action, especially for kids. And in winter one has to keep moving. Urban in Edmonton's downtown has to accomodate families, a downtown built for young urban executives results in nightclubs, bars and sadness after 6 pm on weekdays, just my opinion.
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Old 15-10-2010, 11:48 AM   #65
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Hello Everyone!

DECL is excited to release an online survey regarding our future park, located on the "Scott Property" at the NW corner of 105 Street and 102 Avenue. We have formed a steering committee of local stakeholders to drive this process towards the eventual development of this site as our future Warehouse Campus park for the residents of this area!

If we could take a few minutes of your time to fill out this survey, it would be most appreciated. The most important part of this process is gathering feedback from residents and other interested citizens about how this park should function and the features it should carry.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/W3DKT6D

The survey will be online until November 15. Send this to your friends and family!

If you have any questions about this park or the process towards development, please don't hesitate to contact me.

We are planning some exciting activities for the Scott Property over the winter, so stay tuned!

Chris Buyze,
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Last edited by GreenSPACE; 15-10-2010 at 11:49 AM.. Reason: extended the deadline.
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Old 15-10-2010, 11:58 AM   #66
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Quote:
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Something akin to this, but better executed.


(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j...l/IMG_0333.jpg)
This would be an easy thing to add to 104 Street, maybe around 102 Avenue, as a feature for families and kids attending the farmer's market?
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Old 18-10-2010, 11:33 AM   #67
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^no, in my new park.
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:41 PM   #68
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Reminder to vote if you have not already done so

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenspace View Post
hello everyone!

Decl is excited to release an online survey regarding our future park, located on the "scott property" at the nw corner of 105 street and 102 avenue. We have formed a steering committee of local stakeholders to drive this process towards the eventual development of this site as our future warehouse campus park for the residents of this area!

If we could take a few minutes of your time to fill out this survey, it would be most appreciated. The most important part of this process is gathering feedback from residents and other interested citizens about how this park should function and the features it should carry.

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/w3dkt6d

the survey will be online until november 15. Send this to your friends and family!

If you have any questions about this park or the process towards development, please don't hesitate to contact me.

We are planning some exciting activities for the scott property over the winter, so stay tuned!

Chris buyze,
president
downtown edmonton community league
www.decl.org
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:48 PM   #69
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Make the corner an entrance. Put a fountain there is you want, but anything that obstructs sightlines and prevents direct access (ie the giant horseshoe) is a bad idea and will make your park a wasteland.
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Old 02-11-2010, 01:07 PM   #70
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^Hahaha... 'right'...
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Old 02-11-2010, 03:07 PM   #71
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I'm undecided about the 'barrier' quality of the fountain that IanO proposed in his self-admittedly quick sketch. In fact, a properly raised ledge could make for a good place to sit and eat lunch or meet people, but I'm not sold on the need for a prominent 'active for 4 months a year' water feature.

But please please please do not block the corner with huge rows of free newspaper boxes or a big sign announcing the park's entrance. Visual access.
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Old 08-11-2010, 02:07 PM   #72
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I'll sum up my opinion by saying nothing I can bring to mind is less intresting then dead grass and lumpy brick walkways other than the uncomfortable wood slat or gravell concrtete benches.....another flat lot made exciting with a dozen trees?
A hobo meeting spot?
An ignored "green space" during the winter months?
The footprint that this park idea is gonna use up means that much less space for a building to house residents of the core or buisness to cater to them 365 days a year not just when it's comfortable ....have some foresight people!
I dunno, I think a park is a great idea in an area that has no greenspace but Edmonton seems hardly to be this place ....we need people and activity in the core not a patch of ill maintained sod and planters full of tim hortens cups .
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Old 08-11-2010, 02:13 PM   #73
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" think a park is a great idea in an area that has no greenspace but Edmonton seems hardly to be this place"

Downtown has very very little green space.
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Old 08-11-2010, 02:33 PM   #74
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^ It'd be good to do an inventory of just what is "green space" and what isn't.

For example, I'm sure a lot of people think that the "park" at 102 St and Jasper is just that, a park - and not space slated for development. Same goes for the Alberta Hotel site. Some people believe that is green space that's been converted but it was always supposed to be built on.
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Old 08-11-2010, 03:21 PM   #75
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You do not need an inventory, all you need to do is walk around... very little green even during green months in the downtown proper.
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Old 08-11-2010, 03:22 PM   #76
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It would be good to have a map online somewhere of just what is and isn't 'greenspace' in downtown, delineate between actual zoned green spaces and parks, and "it hasn't been developed yet" Jasper&102s... Does anyone have a list?
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Old 08-11-2010, 03:44 PM   #77
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City of Edmonton Parks has a list yo
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Old 09-11-2010, 03:24 AM   #78
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You do not need an inventory, all you need to do is walk around... very little green even during green months in the downtown proper.
My point is, some of the "green" that people see is not slated to be green forever (eg: Park by Hotel Mac, 102 st and Jasper, etc, Alberta Hotel site) meaning that at the moment, without additional dedicated green space, downtown is in danger of becoming even less green than it is at the moment.

An inventory of actual park space and potential park space would probably illustrate that fact very well. It's undoubtedly less than most people would think.

There we go, violently agreeing again...
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Old 09-11-2010, 08:45 AM   #79
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an almost necessary condition for a park to flourish is to have activity at it's border. if it's a choice between a marginally used green space and another residential tower (or commercial...) i would take the tower. however, a park that provides people with something to do other than stare at empty benches and concrete would be lovely.
i used to really enjoy beaver hills before the butchering, but it was far from comfortable at several times throughout the day. when the office crowd was lunching there it was fantastic, but with no one around it could get "scary". these days i don't see beaver hills doing much of anything interesting, but then again i haven't bothered penetrating into it because it's perimiter is so drab!
i love the indigenous species idea. a water feature would ideally be interactive, otherwise it's an obstacle. it seems like all those park pictures are devoid of people using them. people need something to do, and other people to see.
the comment about how "people like personal space" is untrue imo. in many places people sit in restaurants with strangers and converse, they do it in parks, on busses, everywhere! big cities are full of strangers, and there is a lot of interaction. particularly in public spaces! i don't disagree with providing some single seater amenities, but on the whole public areas should be designed and inviting for crowds (whatever those are).
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:56 AM   #80
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Beaver Hills is still a wonderful place to explore, have lunch, and just relax. I am amazed at how many people still avoid it like the plague. The perimeter is indeed drab, but the interior is an oasis.

The new park site is not an opportunity cost situation for there is vast lands around it to do the towers, this site will make those sites more valuable for redevelopment as well as more attractive.

We need a good urban space for the warehouse district, if not two or 3, this is a start.
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Old 09-11-2010, 10:50 AM   #81
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ah, my reply was eaten by my computer... in short: a good park would be a great addition. zero argument. maybe an offleash area would be perfect, i can't say. but please, make sure the border has a chance of being lively and attractive.

i'll have to check out beaver hills again, but we have to wonder why it's avoided like the plague. i recall the oasis from a decade ago and i see remnants of it in there. maybe it's selective memory at work here. who knows, it's not like the lines of sight were good back then (they're better now). maybe i'll come back to this thread after my next visit there.

i ask: how do cities like montreal (one of many) fill these urban spaces? what's their core density? where's the threshold? answers do exist. does city hall have anything resembling a research department that scouts the globe looking for fantastic functional design that can work in edmonton? cold old europe has some very interesting things going on, so why does it seem like we're only paying attention to calgary?
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Old 09-11-2010, 11:12 AM   #82
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^Montreal's spaces such as this have a mixture of great little oasis' and very hard surface very urban spaces to sit and watch outward rather than be taken away by the space you are in.
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Old 09-11-2010, 11:27 AM   #83
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Beaver Hills is still a wonderful place to explore, have lunch, and just relax. I am amazed at how many people still avoid it like the plague. The perimeter is indeed drab, but the interior is an oasis.
Yes Ian, it's the people who are wrong. When will the unwashed masses realize the genius of BHH as it juxtaposes the urban and natural, with hardscaping that mimics the flow of the mighty north Saskatchewan, and a round town "square" counterbalanced against a suessian knoll and rusticated water feature. Don't. People. Recognize. Whimsy???

Or.

The SW corner suuuuuuuuuuuuuucks. That poorly placed little evergreen and sign ruin the whole thing.

The SE "entrance" is equally offputting, because there isn't one. The park just appears to be an extension of the busstop, and a busstop is the last place that anyone wants to spend time.

And then for some reason the the entire west side is walled off?

The NW entrance is actually good, in that it provides some visual interest. There's a foreground, middleground and background to draw people in. It's the only attractive picture you can take from outside of the park, which is important. From all the other angles the park is nothing but clutter. (standing across Jasper provides the "good" view of the park-as-square, but that view is wasted and useless because no one ever stands there to see it.)

There are some very good lessons to be learned from BHH park, particularly on what not to do with your new park. Please don't ignore them.
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Old 09-11-2010, 01:17 PM   #84
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Hi..it's me ....remember ? Downtown EDMONTON?!

Remember when it I used to be a busy hub of activity?
Remember when shops and eateries lined the streets?
There wasn't very many people living here then yet it was full of activity?
well, I just want to pose the obvious question ....
Where was all the green space and parkland when it was busy then ?

I see grass downtown and benches and few people useing them after 4pm
and even less when it's raining,snowing ,windy,cold or dark, and that doesn't leave alot else !This is EDMONTON ,not Montreal,Paris,Amsterdam or where ever these pictures of frolicking water and warm glowing nightlife are taken .( NOTICE that in every picture of these parks there is NOBODY in them ?)
Parks are great in places where there is people with easy access to them ,even then I've seen condo/apt buildings in the core with park like features around them that are always dead empty.
If a park in the core is such a MUST then it should be next to something where people would gather wether or not it's there. Water features are cute but dull after about 5 minutes and probably expencive to maintain.
An off leash area is great...thats a fenced off corral right? sounds kinda ugly though maybe a nice stone wall around it would look better than chain link.They could call it the "yard" and have a puppy prison like feel to it ? lol
Sadly ,I hate to face the facts but Edmonton is in a state of recovery from the massive destruction that wiped the life out of the core in the 70s and as nice as it would be to imagine a grassy oasis to lounge and eat grapes in the sun I dont think the folks in the core would support it enough to justify the land .We first have to get over this pedway bull$#!t
and the shopping malls , and get people on the sidewalks again .

not a park hater ...just not a supporter of the delusion that more greenspace in the core would change anything
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Old 09-11-2010, 01:42 PM   #85
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another thing I would like to see with this park is wide sidewalks on the perimeter!
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Old 09-11-2010, 02:50 PM   #86
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One thing about this proposed mini-park (and others) is that you don't want too much in the way of tall shrubbery and/or tall physical barriers that could hide activity from side walk view. I know there was a miniature park in downtown Grande Prairie that had to be torn down because neighbouring businesses and pedestrians were complaining about all kinds of stuff going on because it was easy to hide behind the tall concrete walls there.
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Old 09-11-2010, 03:20 PM   #87
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"not a park hater ...just not a supporter of the delusion that more greenspace in the core would change anything"

it would assist in changing a lot of things in conjunction with other great positives moving forward...
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Old 09-11-2010, 04:06 PM   #88
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If I read WLRT plans correctly, there's going to be a low floor LRT stop right at this park, n'est pas? That would create the potential for some pretty heavy usage of said park, I would think.

So, without guessing what landscape features should be there, I'm thinking a coffee kiosk with some creative seating might be nice.

Okay, okay, you twisted my arm on landscaping - don't know what or how - but something to, um, impair the visual, aural impact of vehicles on 105 Street please?
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Old 09-11-2010, 04:12 PM   #89
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^basically yup, just west but more or less.

NO Permanent RETAIL PLEASE... a true urban park, room for a seasonal vendor ok, but keep it simple and urban.
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Old 09-11-2010, 04:20 PM   #90
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^I'm fine with simple and with vendor - heck - plug in for a cart or two.

Yanno, maybe a cuppa java or hot choc in winter, slushie in summer.
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Old 09-11-2010, 09:49 PM   #91
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Beaver Hills is still a wonderful place to explore, have lunch, and just relax. I am amazed at how many people still avoid it like the plague.
Really? It's always busy at lunchtime during the summer.
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:04 AM   #92
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A great example of an urban (oasis) park


(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/23/26...dfb8b75f_o.jpg)
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:25 AM   #93
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that would be perfect this is exactly what should be built, even if the planters in the middle could be non-permanent so if needed you could have a plaza for special events
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:27 AM   #94
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^imagine that not on 102ave/105st but another park on 107st and jasper NEC
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:29 AM   #95
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Ian, where is that park in the picture?
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:31 AM   #96
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that certainly would be an immense improvement over the parking lot by the BP's, why is a park going up there as well?
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:35 AM   #97
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^no, but it could... although I think i'd prefer it closer to the residential area of the warehouse area.

^^not sure, looks Appalachiany or perhaps Portlandy?
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:29 PM   #98
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....and another nice park with nobody in it lol
sorry , I dont see where this is creating alot of activity where ever this one is either ...


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A great example of an urban (oasis) park


(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/23/26...dfb8b75f_o.jpg)
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:42 PM   #99
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They are not about activity, they are about tranquility and a break from urban distractions.
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:05 PM   #100
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Isn't the downtown ALLREADY Tranquil ?....if thats what we are after we can all just wait for the clock to hit 7 pm lol

I think downtown needs a TIME SQUARE or a PICIDILLY CIRCUS!
It needs speakers hanging from doorways ,24 hour coffee shops and delis,flashing lights...a movie theatre,gaudy advertising ...yes I suppose a tim hortens lol,beat cops and transit service in and outta there at all hours.

As much as a another park would save people the 3 block walk to the MASSIVE river valley or legislative or churchhill square etc it seems to me that it would have the impact of a casket at a bridal shower ....
The phrase lets go downtown ...it's so tranquil should never be something to aspire to lol
Sorry , I know I go on about this but as much as there are people in need of a park there is probably thousands that could care less about a park downtown and somebody has to be the advocate for change that instills activity in our sleepy core .
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