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Air/Rail Links Edmonton continues to improve its ranking as a major transportation hub for northern Canada and beyond. New air routes, more cargo, Port Alberta, a major rail operations centre and the related infrastructure are all part of this increasingly critical component of the region’s economic growth. Contribute your ideas and comments here.


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Old 03-03-2010, 01:07 PM   #201
sundance
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For the airlines its a matter of cost and efficiency, if you have one flight fly and in and out you need very little staff in a spoke city, smaller jets to the spokes. However when you look at Calgary's population it is reasonable to assume that they should have about the same number of passengers as Edmonton,

But factoring the fact a good portion of Calgary's 2 London flights are filled with Edmontonians it starts to add up, for example Calgary receives 4 passengers for a typical Edmontonian doing a layover their....

For example:
Edmonton->London +1
London->Edmonton +1=2

Edmonton->Calgary +1
Calgary->London+1
London->Calgary+1
Calgary->Edmonton+1=4

So in reality it isn't the fact Calgarians fly more, its the fact more people do layovers in Calgary.
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Old 03-03-2010, 02:01 PM   #202
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ps... Debra Yedlin from Calgary on the CBC 'Edmonton' business panel...just about punched out the radio...she's on the air supposedly talking business and does nothing but promote Calgary...jeesh...get that bag of hot air off the Edmonton airwaves...
Agree 100% - and ironically, she's an Edmontonian by birth and upbringing (and a U of A grad). I never could figure out why an Edmonton station would use a Calgary columnist for its business panel. Guess we don't have anyone qualified here....

It does seem that the airlines are willing to stick it out in Calgary more than they are in Edmonton, despite empty seats and over-capacity. I still can't figure out how YYC supports two daily flights to both London (three in summer) and Frankfurt, even in the winter. Vancouver only supports a daily (Lufthansa) flight from FRA.
simple.....Calgary provides connections to pax flying to Edmonton, Saskatoon and Regina (and to some extent Winnipeg)....so when we kick the habit, the airlines will see that the Calgary flights don't fill up as much
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Old 03-03-2010, 02:40 PM   #203
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Any airline would love to stop at one airport and have you get there anyway you can...so fools who drive to Calgary...they will pull out of here because you'll drive to Calgary...which means you are a second class customer...you go to them...airlines are supposed to serve you...have them come to you.


Mexicana: half the plane full in Edmonton and half from Calgary...Calgary have never filled their planes...but if the airlines can drag your sorry butts down to YYC then they do not have to do squat for the second class customer from Edmonton...

ps... Debra Yedlin from Calgary on the CBC 'Edmonton' business panel...just about punched out the radio...she's on the air supposedly talking business and does nothing but promote Calgary...jeesh...get that bag of hot air off the Edmonton airwaves...
This is Yedlin's job.

Where is Edmonton's business representative?
We have lots of busineses in Edmonton, albeit not as well known as in Calgary.
But so what.

Anyway, do not want to derail the topic.
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Old 03-03-2010, 03:02 PM   #204
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Just noticed there are two more routes that Calgarians must just hate provided by Air Transat.

Calgary-Edmonton-Montego Bay-Edmonton-Calgary and Calgary-Edmonton-Liberia-Edmonton-Calgary.Must be interesting to see how many of them whine on these flights.
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Old 03-03-2010, 03:06 PM   #205
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Just noticed there are two more routes that Calgarians must just hate provided by Air Transat.

Calgary-Edmonton-Montego Bay-Edmonton-Calgary and Calgary-Edmonton-Liberia-Edmonton-Calgary.Must be interesting to see how many of them whine on these flights.
it probably has to do with the fact that the aircraft arrives in Calgary from certain destination and must leave from there, rather than ferrying the bird to YEG and then having to stop stop in YYC on the way down south....
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Old 03-03-2010, 06:36 PM   #206
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Any airline would love to stop at one airport and have you get there anyway you can...so fools who drive to Calgary...they will pull out of here because you'll drive to Calgary...which means you are a second class customer...you go to them...airlines are supposed to serve you...have them come to you.

Mexicana: half the plane full in Edmonton and half from Calgary...Calgary have never filled their planes...but if the airlines can drag your sorry butts down to YYC then they do not have to do squat for the second class customer from Edmonton...

ps... Debra Yedlin from Calgary on the CBC 'Edmonton' business panel...just about punched out the radio...she's on the air supposedly talking business and does nothing but promote Calgary...jeesh...get that bag of hot air off the Edmonton airwaves...
This is Yedlin's job.

Where is Edmonton's business representative?
We have lots of busineses in Edmonton, albeit not as well known as in Calgary.
But so what.

Anyway, do not want to derail the topic.
that's a cbc issue and it comes out in much more than their business panel. as far as i'm concerned, those that do the job in edmonton do an exceptional job of it both on and off the air but their "provincial" coverage seems to be where the balance tends to fall down. it's much the same on holidays where the provincial coverage inevitably seems to come from calgary rather than edmonton so all of the "what's going on" is all calgary because that's where they are.

sorry for continuing the "derailing"...
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Old 03-03-2010, 09:42 PM   #207
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To do nothing is not acceptable. To be afraid of reprisals reminds me of Neville Chamberlain and "Peace in our time" cowardly act of appeasement. (Why don't we just share Calgary's airport they won't mind)
The question that really needs to be asked is where is EEDC and the City of Edmonton in all of this? I have not heard anything, although I have been out of the loop for the past couple of days. I think Reg Milley and the crew need to be commended for carrying the torch.
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Old 03-03-2010, 09:57 PM   #208
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To do nothing is not acceptable. To be afraid of reprisals reminds me of Neville Chamberlain and "Peace in our time" cowardly act of appeasement. (Why don't we just share Calgary's airport they won't mind)
The question that really needs to be asked is where is EEDC and the City of Edmonton in all of this? I have not heard anything, although I have been out of the loop for the past couple of days. I think Reg Milley and the crew need to be commended for carrying the torch.
I agree.

EIA is doing the job of EEDC and CityEdm.
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Old 03-03-2010, 10:13 PM   #209
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Does EEDc actually do anything?

I know the Calgary one is quite active but again that just shows the differences in the two cities ideas in promotion ormack of in Edmonton's case
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Old 03-03-2010, 10:20 PM   #210
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Does EEDc actually do anything?

I know the Calgary one is quite active but again that just shows the differences in the two cities ideas in promotion ormack of in Edmonton's case
I bet EEDC hang round Lux in Comm Place all day
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Old 04-03-2010, 01:24 AM   #211
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Having lunch and after work drinks is the single most important sign of economic growth, after all.
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Old 04-03-2010, 09:41 AM   #212
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It's been a few days now and other than the one article in the Herald I don't think this has even registered on Calgary's radar, other than their initial "what - 750K people come down here? neat!"....
The sky hasn't fallen, and angry mobs of people in Flames jerseys aren't riding north to storm the castle.

Which is fine.

Hopefully this generates attention and some behaviour change where it needs to - locally.
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Old 04-03-2010, 11:58 AM   #213
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I agree with Chump. This campaign was not/not anti Calgary or the Calgary Airport. It was clearly targetted at the approx 750K Edmontonians who don't think strategically when making their travel plans- For the past 10 years I have not flown through Calgary. If I have to make a connection to get to my destination, it will be made elsewhere - not in Calgary......
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Old 04-03-2010, 12:01 PM   #214
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My father lives in Stettler. When he and his wife go on vacation, the use the Calgary airport because they were unaware that the Edmonton Airport had so many direct flights. Sad thing is that The EIA is WAY closer to Stettler than Calgary.

An awareness program is BADLY needed.

Red Deer should be using us all the time too!
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Old 04-03-2010, 12:12 PM   #215
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Edmonton Journal poll results for EIA's Stop the Calgary Habit intervention and community loyalty campaign are now final. “Hilarious and effective” pulled ahead. Thanks for voting.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/trave...199/story.html
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Old 04-03-2010, 12:33 PM   #216
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^whereas 70% of people think it is ridiculous, futile, or that we shouldn't be fighting among ourselves. Well done!
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Old 04-03-2010, 12:50 PM   #217
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About the only good point to the article was the mention that because of two airports flights were divided and also the fact that we had a referendum to close the muni and we said yes close it and that never happened.
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Old 04-03-2010, 12:58 PM   #218
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About the only good point to the article was the mention that because of two airports flights were divided and also the fact that we had a referendum to close the muni and we said yes close it and that never happened.
The referendum was to consolidate scheduled service at the International not to close the muni.
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:23 AM   #219
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ARGH!!! I need to fly to Saskatoon on Mar 29 in the am, and return the 30th mid-evening... there's only one direct flight each with AC or WJ, all the rest connect through Calgary. Forget far-off destinations, I can't even go direct to the next province.
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Old 05-03-2010, 12:44 PM   #220
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ARGH!!! I need to fly to Saskatoon on Mar 29 in the am, and return the 30th mid-evening... there's only one direct flight each with AC or WJ, all the rest connect through Calgary. Forget far-off destinations, I can't even go direct to the next province.
Tell me about it. If I need to connect anywhere from here it's pretty much through Winnipeg or Calgary. We need more flights to YEG.
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Old 05-03-2010, 12:48 PM   #221
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I booked the flight... totally the wrong times, but I don't want to transfer. I'll spend an extra night in Saskatoon and go visit their downtown since I've never been there before. There's at least 6 flights from Calgary on each airline and only one from each in Edmonton. Total BS.
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:00 PM   #222
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And that my friends is how the airlines use their scheduling practices to funnel passengers to their hubs. Calgary has 6 flights - We have 1
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:27 PM   #223
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Clive Beddoe (Westjet founder) figured out in the 1980s if he had about 5 people going to a certain destination it was cheaper for him to charter a plane to his destination directly. Now this number is probably different but there are a lot of carriers willing to fly you directly from YEG to Alberta, the other provinces and some to USA.

If you have a large enough group, say a tour, some of the charters will bend over backwards to get your business.
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:38 PM   #224
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And that my friends is how the airlines use their scheduling practices to funnel passengers to their hubs. Calgary has 6 flights - We have 1
I am too lazy to search but I've brought this up a few times before on this forum. There is always such a big push for more overseas flights (which is fine) but improving the local interprovincial networks will do wonders to YEGs pax count - and will help make the case for international routes.
Having said that, there used to be more (2 per airline, 4 in total) direct flights per day from Saskatoon to Edmonton, and that was dropped to 1 again due to low demand I presume.
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:48 PM   #225
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And that my friends is how the airlines use their scheduling practices to funnel passengers to their hubs. Calgary has 6 flights - We have 1
I am too lazy to search but I've brought this up a few times before on this forum. There is always such a big push for more overseas flights (which is fine) but improving the local interprovincial networks will do wonders to YEGs pax count - and will help make the case for international routes.
Having said that, there used to be more (2 per airline, 4 in total) direct flights per day from Saskatoon to Edmonton, and that was dropped to 1 again due to low demand I presume.
And as usual, they will cut non-hub flights and they make you connect. Problem is non-stop flights end up being so more expensive than stopping in Calgary. Eventually, people will have no choice but to accept what`s offered by the airline.
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Old 05-03-2010, 01:58 PM   #226
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What I can't figure out is why, for instance to fly to Kelowna it is cheaper and faster to fly direct than it is to go through YYC or YVR... you'd think it would be cheaper to take a connecting flight. There are more options from EIA than YYC and only one fewer direct flight and the price is the same. Seems to me you'd have to be an ***** or not value your time to drive to Calgary for a flight like that.

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Old 05-03-2010, 03:34 PM   #227
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And that my friends is how the airlines use their scheduling practices to funnel passengers to their hubs. Calgary has 6 flights - We have 1
I am too lazy to search but I've brought this up a few times before on this forum. There is always such a big push for more overseas flights (which is fine) but improving the local interprovincial networks will do wonders to YEGs pax count - and will help make the case for international routes.
Having said that, there used to be more (2 per airline, 4 in total) direct flights per day from Saskatoon to Edmonton, and that was dropped to 1 again due to low demand I presume.
I can't agree with you more. The Saskatoon example and AC from Whitehorse YYC, YEG illustrates the problem the the best. As I have mentioned before a connection to Prince George would be ideal. People going to YUL, YYZ, YOW and other points east could make all their connections through YEG instead of back tracking to YVR. I beliieve AC tried YYC for a while but dropped it.
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:34 PM   #228
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^In the eyes of an airline, they'd rather see it as purchasing 2 flights, not one with an inconvenient detour.
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Old 05-03-2010, 04:41 PM   #229
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Further to this issue Canadian North is cooperating with AC to coordinate their schedules through YOW. Too bad they cannot make a similar arrangement here.


http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...669/story.html
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Old 06-03-2010, 02:15 PM   #230
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^ Ironically, Canadian North is owned by Norterra, Inc., which has its corporate offices in Commerce Place here in Edmonton...
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Old 06-03-2010, 04:26 PM   #231
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Before we crack out the drama llama....

It does say that it's an issue of Canadian North taking over baggage at a single airport and adjusted the schedule slightly for connections in Ottawa. It could be that their flights into Edmonton from other origins have already been harmonized in Edmonton.

Giving Iqaluit location, well, Ottawa seems to make sense.
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Old 06-03-2010, 08:36 PM   #232
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Before we crack out the drama llama....

It does say that it's an issue of Canadian North taking over baggage at a single airport and adjusted the schedule slightly for connections in Ottawa. It could be that their flights into Edmonton from other origins have already been harmonized in Edmonton.
It could be but do you know that? It is just another way of boosting domestic travel through YEG and with possible trans-border and international flights.
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Old 09-03-2010, 01:06 PM   #233
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This issue will be featured on Alberta Primetime (Access TV) tonight.
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Old 09-03-2010, 08:26 PM   #234
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Watched it...the last 2 guests were like watching cardboard...
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Old 10-03-2010, 01:40 PM   #235
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An example regarding a flight to San Fran

http://www.travelalerts.ca/top-trave...francisco.html
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Old 10-03-2010, 01:43 PM   #236
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An example regarding a flight to San Fran

http://www.travelalerts.ca/top-trave...francisco.html
LOL!
That's brutal!
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Old 10-03-2010, 01:47 PM   #237
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And its a Vancouver travel agency to boot. Although looks like it is a case of copy and paste since they mention that San Fran is nice in September yet the flight is for May.
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Old 10-03-2010, 02:05 PM   #238
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An example regarding a flight to San Fran

http://www.travelalerts.ca/top-trave...francisco.html
LOL!
That's brutal!
that's bait and switch imo, clearly
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Old 10-03-2010, 03:11 PM   #239
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Athough I support EIA in every way I can, I can't help but worry for the future of this airport.

On top of this, a $Billion expansion underway

Reading the link above, hearing about Emirates desire to land in YYC, ...

Can someone please give some hope here
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Old 10-03-2010, 03:14 PM   #240
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Pushing the panic button is the wrong response. Look at EIA's successes prior to the global economic meltdown. We're slowly recovering from that, but in the meantime things have slowed down, and the easier place to cut routes from is Edmonton.

The future is still bright.
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Old 10-03-2010, 03:50 PM   #241
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Athough I support EIA in every way I can, I can't help but worry for the future of this airport.

On top of this, a $Billion expansion underway

Reading the link above, hearing about Emirates desire to land in YYC, ...

Can someone please give some hope here
Just keep avoiding YYC...and tell all you know, don't fly through YYC...that is the only hope!!!
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Old 10-03-2010, 05:12 PM   #242
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Remember folks, YEG has much better service today than back in 1995. At that time, our only "international" flights were to Minneapolis and Salt Lake City.
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Old 10-03-2010, 05:51 PM   #243
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It is getting better and better every year, I can't wait for the new expansion to open up. We all have to make sure we connect to ABC (anywhere but Calgary), especially to a US city or LHR. I will not connect to a Canadian city with an exception to Hamilton to get to the in-laws place in New Brunswick. I know I am doing my part as our trip to Costa Rica in April is via Houston on Continental (first class baby ).
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Old 15-03-2010, 02:16 PM   #244
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Why is there no " here is where you can fly direct to from YEG" search link on the "stop the habit" page ?
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Old 15-03-2010, 03:10 PM   #245
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Because it's not JUST about direct flights... It's about flying OUT of Edmonton full stop!, even if you have to connect in SFO or O'hare.
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Old 15-03-2010, 05:00 PM   #246
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It IS all about not having to transfer in calgary though correct ??
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Old 15-03-2010, 07:01 PM   #247
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It IS all about not having to transfer in calgary though correct ??
No it isn't. It is also about not DRIVING to Calgary and taking your first flight from there.

Although, what if someone drove to Calgary specifically so that they could connect via Edmonton?
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Old 15-03-2010, 07:07 PM   #248
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(...)
Although, what if someone drove to Calgary specifically so that they could connect via Edmonton?

The same could be said for the Edmontonian who drives to Calgary to do the same thing...

...that had better be a significant savings...or...

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Old 15-03-2010, 11:31 PM   #249
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(...)
Although, what if someone drove to Calgary specifically so that they could connect via Edmonton?

The same could be said for the Edmontonian who drives to Calgary to do the same thing...

...that had better be a significant savings...or...
I was thinking in terms of giving YEG +2 passengers compared to +1, however I guess it would be pointless since the net would still be +1 and YYC would receive the AIF. I guess one should go to another airport and try to connect through YEG.
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Old 17-03-2010, 12:29 PM   #250
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EIA's "Stop the Calgary Habit" campaign made the pages of USA Today. Check it out.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/colum...-ad-wars_N.htm
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Old 17-03-2010, 01:20 PM   #251
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What a great article !!!!
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Old 18-03-2010, 09:54 AM   #252
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^ Cool!
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Old 19-03-2010, 09:25 AM   #253
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If the positions were reversed Calgary would do the same thing - and possibly be even more aggressive in its campaign.
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Old 22-03-2010, 09:06 AM   #254
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From "Tuffyy" on SSP:

(Madrid, Spain)-European Commission Vice-President Antonio Tajani released a report Friday indicating that even with the new EU-Canada air transport agreement being recently signed ''that growth will be limited''.
He went onto say that many of Canada's airports are already well served with the exception of some of the underserved markets that could warrant direct service that are currently being fed by some of the hub systems in the country.Among the cities noted Halifax, Ottawa and Edmonton were recently showed in studies conducted by the EU to have more than enough demand to warrant nonstop and direct flights to several EU Cities.Halifax Nova Scotia as a example shows that a increasing number of German's are travelling to the city as tourists, and although there are currently flights via German charter airline Condor flugdienst the airline is limited in the amount of service it can give to the region due to aircraft constraints based on aircraft shortages.On another note he spoke of Edmonton the capital city of Alberta and how ''the city has more demand than is being provided'' according to our studies.He explained that several EU carriers rushed to service Calgary some in there own right and others via alliances with the countries national airline Air Canada, Calgary has become oversaturated with the amount of European service it recieves while Edmonton has been ''overlooked''.

KLM Royal Dutch Airlines launched flights between Amsterdam and Calgary recently and has had to reduce its presence already due to the demand not being as strong as thought, and KLM continues to monitor the situation closely.British Airways has also reported difficult loads from Calgary recently that became even more noticeable when the economic crisis began.

"It comes down to too many carriers trying to offer too much service'' to a already well served destination.Everyone wants a piece of the action and that sometimes comes with a cost to some of the players.

Ottawa has also been a growing market for the EU and numbers are way up.He says there will likely be flights from France offered to Ottawa in 2011 as French charter airline Corsair has expressed a interest in adding Ottawa to its network.

Overall many EU carriers need to re-focus plans on expansion into Canada, ''nows the time to be making money and not losing it'' they need to think outside the box because some of the boxes are not full enough to fill them up. Antonio plans to present the report to several EU carriers in the coming months.
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Old 22-03-2010, 11:05 AM   #255
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^ This news is very encouraging.

Especially:

"...he spoke of Edmonton the capital city of Alberta and how ''the city has more demand than is being provided'' according to our studies.He explained that several EU carriers rushed to service Calgary some in there own right and others via alliances with the countries national airline Air Canada, Calgary has become oversaturated with the amount of European service it recieves while Edmonton has been ''overlooked''.

KLM Royal Dutch Airlines launched flights between Amsterdam and Calgary recently and has had to reduce its presence already due to the demand not being as strong as thought, and KLM continues to monitor the situation closely.British Airways has also reported difficult loads from Calgary recently that became even more noticeable when the economic crisis began.

"It comes down to too many carriers trying to offer too much service'' to a already well served destination.Everyone wants a piece of the action and that sometimes comes with a cost to some of the players..."
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Old 22-03-2010, 12:38 PM   #256
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Good to see someone stating "the bleeding obvious" I wonder if AC visits this site?
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Old 22-03-2010, 12:52 PM   #257
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Good to see someone stating "the bleeding obvious" I wonder if AC visits this site?
AC is not affected....it's KL and BA. WHich makes the most sense. THere aren't enough loyal OneWorld and SkyTeam members in Alberta who are going to specifically choose either BA or KL over AC/LH flights...I wouldn't (If I didn't have a significant AAdvantage mileage card)
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Old 22-03-2010, 01:25 PM   #258
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Good to see someone stating "the bleeding obvious" I wonder if AC visits this site?
Unfortunately AC needs Edmonton pax to maintain YYC's hub, or focus city or whatever they're calling it today status.

Also unfortunately, Westjet is using YYC as a gateway (yet another term) to feed EU partner airlines. Now, maybe if some of those partners suggested to WJ that load factors might be better via YEG....who knows?
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Old 22-03-2010, 11:00 PM   #259
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Unfortunately AC needs Edmonton pax to maintain YYC's hub, or focus city or whatever they're calling it today status.

Also unfortunately, Westjet is using YYC as a gateway (yet another term) to feed EU partner airlines. Now, maybe if some of those partners suggested to WJ that load factors might be better via YEG....who knows?
Flew AC yesterday. According to the route map in their enroute magazine, AC's hubs are Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto and Montreal (depicted by the AC logo over those cities; the legend shows that the logo means Air Canada Hub).

I would think that KLM/BA would want to have WS feed the existing flights via YVR and YYC before they look to add service to YEG (which would rely partly on feeder traffic).
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Old 23-03-2010, 09:35 AM   #260
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Only AC would have as many hubs to serve a market of 30 million as UA has to serve 300 million. eh?
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Old 23-03-2010, 10:19 AM   #261
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Heres what I say we want more air traffic why are we getting rid of the city center airport. We should be expanding it. Why not offer it to West Jet to develop as their flagship airport. Give them some ownership over the design and tax breaks over ten years.
You want to talk about revitalizing the downtown care, how beneficial do you think it would be to have an airport situated in the core.
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Old 23-03-2010, 10:32 AM   #262
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^ How would you propose to expand it? It's boxed in.

Beside that point, Edmonton doesn't need two airports.
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Old 23-03-2010, 10:33 AM   #263
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You do know that the runways are 5800 feet right versus 11,000+ feet at EIA?
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Old 23-03-2010, 10:36 AM   #264
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James780...that is certainly an opinion...

...but your idea falls as soon as you see 2 too small runways and the height restrictions the 737NG's would place on the downtown...thereby stalling and killing revitalization...not to mention noise restrictions etc...

I'm not going to re-enter the why's anymore. Search on YXD, or CYXD, or MUNI. There are plenty of threads detailing out all arguments ad nauseum.
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Old 23-03-2010, 10:48 AM   #265
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Heres what I say we want more air traffic why are we getting rid of the city center airport. We should be expanding it. Why not offer it to West Jet to develop as their flagship airport. Give them some ownership over the design and tax breaks over ten years.
You want to talk about revitalizing the downtown care, how beneficial do you think it would be to have an airport situated in the core.
Just by suggesting that WJ can send their planes at YXD shows how little you know about this subject....Even the 737-200 aren't even allowed to fly into CYXD.

And never mind how much it would cost to bring CYXD to a standard that MOst of us would expect at a typical airport with all sorts of amenities.
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Old 23-03-2010, 12:12 PM   #266
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Heres what I say we want more air traffic why are we getting rid of the city center airport. We should be expanding it. Why not offer it to West Jet to develop as their flagship airport. Give them some ownership over the design and tax breaks over ten years.
You want to talk about revitalizing the downtown care, how beneficial do you think it would be to have an airport situated in the core.
what are you taking about. We no longer have a city center airport. End of discussion.
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Old 23-03-2010, 04:48 PM   #267
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The 732 and some airbuses can plan YXD as an alternate currently...so...they are allowed to fly into it...but only as a diversion...

The larger problem is with the concept proposed of WJ developing YXD in to a "flagship" airport...given their expansion plans...and their routes...and their eventual move to a larger airframe when they go bigger (a la PWA)...WJ is based in YYC...add 2 itty bitty runways@ XD and your plan fails...

...it failed in 1963...it fails now....enough on this tangent...back to the topic at hand...
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Old 23-03-2010, 05:09 PM   #268
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Heres what I say we want more air traffic why are we getting rid of the city center airport. We should be expanding it. Why not offer it to West Jet to develop as their flagship airport. Give them some ownership over the design and tax breaks over ten years.
You want to talk about revitalizing the downtown care, how beneficial do you think it would be to have an airport situated in the core.
First off, that airport can't be expanded
Secondly, it wouldn't be very beneficial to have the airport in the core. You can't catch any international or even many national flights out of the muni airport even in its glory days, for a variety of reasons, mentioned on 15 different threads here at C2E...
The international is at the worst, a 40 minute drive out of downtown, and normally about 25 minutes.
how does one revitalize downtown 'care' with loud planes and punitive height restrictions over most of the 'care' that limits buildings in certain areas to only 12 floors or less? Maybe you should talk with kcantor here and have him explain the 'stairs' to his office.

I also would like to hear how you would pitch the small runways of the muni to westjet... How full can you get those modern 737's with fuel, passengers and luggage before you reach the limits of the runways?

Also, I'm sure the 15,000 people of Oliver will love for the return of 737 jet engines flying right over head. Not to mention all the other thousands of people that live directly above this flight path...

And finally - Why did James780 decide to take this thread - a discussion about YEG, and not YXD to post his views? Couldn't find a better thread... or just trolling? Guessing the latter.
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Old 23-03-2010, 05:31 PM   #269
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Getting back on topic and leaving trolls to places like under bridges in Seattle, I do hope that some people realize that driving to Calgary or doing layovers in Calgary do cost Edmontonians. Yes it could be cheaper if you had to drive to Calgary anyways but the fact that Calgary receives about 11 million to Edmonton's 6 million passenger do indicate for similar sized cities something is a bit amiss.
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Old 13-04-2010, 05:59 PM   #270
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I just got back from Costa Rica and flew Edmonton-Houston-Liberia with Continental and both Edmonton legs were full in first class and economy looked to be full as well. It was interesting when we deplaned in Houston, a Continental representative had a list of 10-15 connections that people on our flight were taking, the few I saw on her sheet were:

Austin, Texas
Miami, Florida
Cancun, Mexico
Liberia, Costa Rica
San Jose, Costa Rica
Quito, Ecuador

It was great to see full loads in both classes and so many different final destinations. I would love to see Continental service to their eastern hub, fingers crossed for a non-stop YEG-Newark flight.
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Old 13-04-2010, 08:42 PM   #271
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Getting back on topic and leaving trolls to places like under bridges in Seattle, I do hope that some people realize that driving to Calgary or doing layovers in Calgary do cost Edmontonians. Yes it could be cheaper if you had to drive to Calgary anyways but the fact that Calgary receives about 11 million to Edmonton's 6 million passenger do indicate for similar sized cities something is a bit amiss.
Not really.....You need to look at the makeup of each city. Corporate head offices have a greater need for travel and so does tourism - which are huge factors where Edmonton lags Calgary.

The focus of this campaign isn't about catching up with YYC numbers, because we may never be able to reach that goal, but rather it's about what we can do to get those 750,000 potential seats to be filled right out of YEG and get more nonstop flights...
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Old 29-04-2010, 10:27 AM   #272
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I think I'll drive to Calgary for my flight today.
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Old 29-04-2010, 11:22 AM   #273
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Lol
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Old 30-04-2010, 05:42 PM   #274
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Default Stop the Habit at Edmonton Oilers - April 7, 2010

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN5ynaLlRr8

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHeafSjjNF0
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Old 25-05-2010, 02:15 PM   #275
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Edmonton International Airport launches intervention campaign
Edmonton travellers asked to choose EIA every time they fly

March 1, 2010 (Edmonton, Alta.)—Edmonton International Airport (EIA) estimates that it strikes up to 750,000 people annually: The Calgary Habit, the drive or flight south that many Edmontonians make to catch a plane from Calgary. The symptoms: travellers using Calgary’s airport don’t weigh costs like gas, parking, time, inconvenience, lost economic activity for the region and the toll they’re taking on Edmonton’s capacity to grow its air service. The cure: EIA’s Stop the Calgary Habit intervention campaign, which officially launches today.

Stop the Calgary Habit is asking travellers from the Edmonton region to choose EIA every time they fly. This call to action is being taken to the streets of downtown Edmonton today with a roving rally that will culminate in a prize giveaway at TELUS Plaza (10020 100 Street) at 12:30 pm. The winner will walk away with a $4,000 travel voucher to purchase a trip for two to any of the more than 50 destinations EIA serves non-stop.

Throughout the campaign, EIA will be staging a series of grassroots promotions and events to remind Edmontonians about the importance of supporting the airport’s growing family of non-stop destinations. The cheeky campaign is also meant to discourage them from flying via Calgary and make them aware of the toll this behaviour has on Edmonton’s ability to attract new routes.

“No Oilers fan wants money pouring into the coffers of the Flames and the Saddledome, nor does any Eskimos fan want to support the Stampeders and McMahon Stadium,” says Peter McCart, EIA’s Vice-President of Marketing & Business Development. “Many Edmontonians have already made a decision to support their community by supporting EIA.

“If our passengers need to make a connection, we always encourage them to use one of our 10 US hubs, or international hubs like London-Heathrow. By connecting through EIA non-stop destinations like Denver, Houston or London, and ensuring those routes thrive, it makes Edmonton more attractive to airlines looking to add new routes.”

Thanks to community support, Edmonton International Airport has been one of North America’s fastest-growing major airports for the last few years. To keep pace with this unprecedented growth, EIA’s $1-billion Expansion 2012 airport development program is currently underway, and is expected to be on time and under budget. To ensure the upward trend continues, it’s imperative that local travellers fly Edmonton first.

To encourage savings, and counteract costs associated with southbound drive market leakage, EIA’s Stop the Calgary Habit toolkit includes parking coupons, flight-mapping tools, a cost calculator and more. For more information, visit www.flyeia.com.

Now, EIA is counting on your support through one simple pledge: Stop the Calgary Habit. Fly from Edmonton International Airport every time!

-30-

This should have started right after the flights from the Muni were shifted to the YEG.

This is a case of closing the barn door long, long after the horse is gone.
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Old 25-05-2010, 06:50 PM   #276
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[/QUOTE]


This should have started right after the flights from the Muni were shifted to the YEG.

This is a case of closing the barn door long, long after the horse is gone.[/QUOTE]

In 1994 the international was incapable of handling any more traffic than it had at the time. It could not even handle the additional traffic from the Muni so promoting the idea of more people using it would have been futile. It has taken this long to build up the infrastructure to handle all the potential traffic from this area. Now is the time to start promoting the idea of more people using it so they can see the improvements in the facilities and air service.
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Old 25-05-2010, 09:40 PM   #277
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Just checking the KLM and Luftansa 2010 winter schedules and finding to no ones surprise that YEG was not on it - but Calgary has both flights to Frankfurt and Amsterdam

oh well it tends to be an uphill battle to not keep people from traveling south to connect to these flights.

And other flights that we do not have
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Old 26-05-2010, 01:10 AM   #278
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I think many of these flights boil down to how many first-class seats can be sold. Some travellers from Europe (or Calgary) can afford the first-class seats. Also, many European travellers want to travel to Banff. I'm sure that KLM or Lufthansa would benefit from a 4/3 or 5/2 day split with Calgary/Edmonton (like Mexicana used to have) for passengers.
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Old 26-05-2010, 09:23 AM   #279
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I think many of these flights boil down to how many first-class seats can be sold. Some travellers from Europe (or Calgary) can afford the first-class seats. Also, many European travellers want to travel to Banff. I'm sure that KLM or Lufthansa would benefit from a 4/3 or 5/2 day split with Calgary/Edmonton (like Mexicana used to have) for passengers.
The fact that Mexicana moved away from splitting flights between YEG and YYC and keeping YYC going daily kind of contradicts your point. Although i do agree with you about the premium seats and the tourism issue.
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Old 26-05-2010, 09:43 AM   #280
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Mexican had great intentions but came face to face with the "Alberta Air Reality" and did what every other airline is doing.


In a perfect world it woudl be great to split the flights between the two cities or even have 70/30 Calgary but thats not how the airlines see it.

I was in Calgary last week and saw that big beautiful 4 engine Luftansa Flight take off.

It was disappointing to not have it come to Edmonton.
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:23 PM   #281
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This person probably hasn't broken the Calgary habit:

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/opini...907/story.html
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:39 PM   #282
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This person probably hasn't broken the Calgary habit:

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/opini...907/story.html
What is the point of this letter?
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:50 PM   #283
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Looks like he (Bruce Byers) is part of Aviation Alberta and owns a Beechcraft Musketeer which his favorite destination for flying is Camrose. I wonder if he wrote this for his buddies in EE :


http://www.myplaneonline.com/users/i....cfm&userid=89

http://www.aviationalberta.com/index.php?page=a---h
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:51 PM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
This person probably hasn't broken the Calgary habit:

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/opini...907/story.html
What is the point of this letter?
The author completely missed the point of the editorial cartoon...
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Old 12-09-2010, 01:15 PM   #285
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Obviously, Mr. Byer is one of these Edmonton residents who is never satisfied with the kind of air service that Edmonton provides. Worst of all, it's these kind of attitudes that impact air service here. Edmonton has wasted too much time appeasing these kind of people.
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Old 12-09-2010, 02:47 PM   #286
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He is just another selfish pleasure pilot that flies his personal plane around the Edmonton region and does not care if it is at EIA's or the City of Edmonton's expense.
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:02 PM   #287
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Obviously, Mr. Byer is one of these Edmonton residents who is never satisfied with the kind of air service that Edmonton provides.
Are YOU satisfied with the way it is now? I think we can (and will) do significantly better, and it's not going to come from Edmonton Airports resting on their laurels.
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:32 PM   #288
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^ I think it could be improved, but it would be with more U. S. and International flights.

Also, general aviation could be improved, with an expansion out at Villeneuve.

I don't think Edmonton Airports is resting on its laurels. It's still seeking to improve:

(1) A new hotel at the International Airport.
(2) Improvements in parking and check-in service.
(3) Efforts to expand the Villeneuve Airport.

Of course, my wish list would include LRT at the International Airport.
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Old 30-09-2010, 12:14 AM   #289
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Global News had a story on yesterday at 6: According to an ipsos-reid poll commissioned by Global, approx. 80% of Edmonton residents support or strongly support EIAs stop the calgary habit campaign. Pretty impressive.
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Old 30-09-2010, 01:06 AM   #290
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That's great news. Edmonton International Airport has built a great reputation in the past 15 years.
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Old 30-09-2010, 07:20 AM   #291
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Global News had a story on yesterday at 6: According to an ipsos-reid poll commissioned by Global, approx. 80% of Edmonton residents support or strongly support EIAs stop the calgary habit campaign. Pretty impressive.
Nice but if that is the case why are there still 750,000 passengers going through Calgary?
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:51 AM   #292
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Regaining these fliers should be priority number one, and it appears to be.
Running an advertising campaign to attack potential customers and give other customers the idea of going to YYC, wasn't a very clever way to do it. As I predicted, the result of highlighting the business case was this better Red Arrow connection. This would make a good Harvard Business School case study of a poor marketing campaign that has backfired badly.
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Old 12-11-2010, 09:11 AM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
Regaining these fliers should be priority number one, and it appears to be.
Running an advertising campaign to attack potential customers and give other customers the idea of going to YYC, wasn't a very clever way to do it. As I predicted, the result of highlighting the business case was this better Red Arrow connection. This would make a good Harvard Business School case study of a poor marketing campaign that has backfired badly.
Then Sir, how would you suggest EIA target leakage? Sit back and let people drift past them on the QE2? Do you think Calgary would sit back and watch the parade if they were in our shoes?

If you have better ideas how about forwarding them to ERAA?

PS I'm sure Red Arrow knew about the leakage far before the STCH campaign even started.
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Old 12-11-2010, 09:16 AM   #294
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I totally disagree moa, it got people talking AND 19,000 fewer traveled through YYC in the first 6 months. A few taking the bus isn't a big deal nor does it mean the strategy failed in any way. Keep up the Calgary boosterism though, it isn't nauseating yet
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Old 12-11-2010, 10:08 AM   #295
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I totally disagree moa, it got people talking AND 19,000 fewer traveled through YYC in the first 6 months:
I don't think its a good thing for YEG to get people talking about, for it just highlights that they are losing to YYC. The smarter thing to do would have been to target customers in other cities and also promote the flights they have, rather than highlight to the public that lots of people choose Calgary's airport.
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:17 PM   #296
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I think it is, most people I talk to had their eyes opened and will promote/use YEG without connecting/driving to YYC. It is a good start and think it will continue to improve, it may only be 30 planes a month less using Calgary but that's 1 more plane per day full of passengers using our airport.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:00 PM   #297
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I don't think its a good thing for YEG to get people talking about, for it just highlights that they are losing to YYC. The smarter thing to do would have been to target customers in other cities and also promote the flights they have, rather than highlight to the public that lots of people choose Calgary's airport.
You were not aware that EIA was already doing that?, for years before this campaign

Oh well, I guess you know now. I will expect you to not say anything further. (that would be willful ignorance)
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Old 16-11-2010, 01:53 AM   #298
Flex Mentallo
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[QUOTE=Bill;331526]
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Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
Then Sir, how would you suggest EIA target leakage? Sit back and let people drift past them on the QE2? Do you think Calgary would sit back and watch the parade if they were in our shoes?

If you have better ideas how about forwarding them to ERAA?
I don't think you need a better idea to call out a bad one. "People are going to Calgary to catch flights. Quick, put this bag over your head so that it prevents any breathing." "That is a terrible idea." "DO YOU HAVE A BETTER IDEA?" Quite frankly, its a campaign begging people not to go to Calgary and not offering them a reason not to. It just highlights the weaknesses of Edmonton's airport situation.
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Old 16-11-2010, 08:46 AM   #299
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you know Westjet is Calgary based airline and they know how to cut Edmonton flights and try to get customers to come to Calgary to fly out to other destinations
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Old 16-11-2010, 05:50 PM   #300
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[QUOTE=Flex Mentallo;332304]
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Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
Then Sir, how would you suggest EIA target leakage? Sit back and let people drift past them on the QE2? Do you think Calgary would sit back and watch the parade if they were in our shoes?

If you have better ideas how about forwarding them to ERAA?
I don't think you need a better idea to call out a bad one. "People are going to Calgary to catch flights. Quick, put this bag over your head so that it prevents any breathing." "That is a terrible idea." "DO YOU HAVE A BETTER IDEA?" Quite frankly, its a campaign begging people not to go to Calgary and not offering them a reason not to. It just highlights the weaknesses of Edmonton's airport situation.
Good answer. Sit back and watch people pass by.

It's this type of mentality that has thrown Edmonton back.
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