Air Canada dropping all Edmonton-U.S.A flights.

[chupa]

YEG-LAX and YEG-LAS are dropped, YYC is also seeing cuts with YYC-LAX going from 3 daily's to 2 YYC-SFO going from 2 daily's to 1 and San Diego is dropped.Offcourse they are still codesharing with UA and CO from YEG on there flights.The flights effected were the ones operating with AC's own metal only.

Maybe WestJet will rethink YEG-LAX and step it back up to daily for the summer...

[RichardS]

No surprise here...

[Bill]

Air Canada has the monopoly on air travel throughout Canada.

They can do as they wish.

We meagre folks have little to no recourse.

So sick of Air Canada. What a POS.
I wait for the day that West Jet moves ahead of Air Canada all the way.

[RichardS]

Well, before this becomes a bash AC thread...

...they too are at the mercy of the economy, the knee-jerk regulatory and security measures, declining travel by businesses, instability in the geopolitical landscape, and a recent move by any country with a domestic market to push for protectionism within it...

AC has its skeletons...but there is more at play...

[McBoo]

Of course, Air Canada expects all us happy Edmontonians to sing merrily as we walk the yellow brick road down Gate 49 to YYC to "connect" to the U.S. of A.

Methinks the beginning of the end of AC. Hopefully twice burned creditors will let this death be permanent.

[Jasper]

Somewhat unrelated... But I tried to book travel to Macendonia. So with AC and partners it came to over $4,000 (one booking). The routing was YEG-LHR-Budapest-Skopje.
Then I checked with AC - YEG-LHR $1,600 Then LHR-Budapest-Skopje $450 - (two bookings). Is AC taking the difference. I dont get it?

[Brentk]

^ Just airline codeshare fees and the chance someone will bite at it...which people do. I'm flying MNL this month and YEG_HKG_MNL on Air Canada was 3400 compared to Air Canada to HKG and Cathay Pacific to MNL from HKG at 1100.

[els]

Originally Posted by chupa

YEG-LAX and YEG-LAS are dropped, YYC is also seeing cuts with YYC-LAX going from 3 daily's to 2 YYC-SFO going from 2 daily's to 1 and San Diego is dropped.Offcourse they are still codesharing with UA and CO from YEG on there flights.The flights effected were the ones operating with AC's own metal only.

Maybe WestJet will rethink YEG-LAX and step it back up to daily for the summer...

AC lost the war to Westjet on the LAX route!!

[AAAAE]

Luckily no destinations are lost here, but it seems clear Air Canada does not want to invest the effort in Edmonton required to be profitable here.

We are certainly becoming a westjet city, for better or for worse.

[els]

Actually, the loss is quite detrimental to aeroplan travellers. Now, they will be forced to go through DEN or SFO on UAX to southern California and undoubtly, some will definitely route through YYC, further eroding our leakage!

This is not the first time AC pulled the YEG-LAX route. Back then, AC was the monopoly on the route, now with WestJet in the game, they will claim it is not profitable due to WestJet.

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by els

Actually, the loss is quite detrimental to aeroplan travellers. Now, they will be forced to go through DEN or SFO on UAX to southern California and undoubtly, some will definitely route through YYC, further eroding our leakage! This is not the first time AC pulled the YEG-LAX route. Back then, AC was the monopoly on the route, now with WestJet in the game, they will claim it is not profitable due to WestJet.

I said exactly what you did when Westjet announced the LAX flight. I also said leakage would occur. The only hope is for EIA to lobby US airlines for additional service...albeit none of the mainliners have their own metal here...all contracted out. We need a Star Alliance partner flying to LAX and LAS. Perhaps US Air will return to YEG to LAS - but will United pick up the LAX route? What about Horizon?

I wonder what intelligence Carol and her bosses over at EIA had on these changes (if any and if not why not - surely this should have been anticipated, and irrespective YYC also took a hit).

Lets hope WJ go daily with LAX.

[JustYeggin]

I say good riddance......UA and US will still be around to provide flights to the US.

[Rocket252]

I checked AC's website for Dec 2010 and noticed a nonstop YEG - LAX using a CRJ -705 aircraft

[b711]

Simply; Air Canada is a joke.

[Bill]

Bye bye Air Canada. Hello Westjet.

I hope US carriers see EIA as a potential.

There is no future left for Air Canada in Edmonton. It's over.

[els]

Originally Posted by Rocket252

I checked AC's website for Dec 2010 and noticed a nonstop YEG - LAX using a CRJ -705 aircraft

As for now, starting May 1, the non-stop route is no longer on their schedule.

And yes, it is showing the CRJ705 non-stop as of November 1, 2010.

[chupa]

This is the third time in the last 10 years AC has added YEG-LAX and dropped it.I have a feeling they need the aircraft in Toronto seeing they just added 7 new U.S destinations from that city...They did say they were going to concentrate on Toronto and even YYC is feeling the effects.UA is also dropping mainline metal out of YYC with only one daily mainline flight between YYC-ORD and reducing its service across the YYC board with UAX taking over all other flights.Funny as just as we are getting ready to bounce back seats go down yet again only in about a year or so (according to economical focasts for Alberta) we will likely see a rebound.

Cant wait for the next AC annoucement saying ''new'' YEG-LAX for the fourth time in 10 years....Give me a break.
WestJet pound them down again if you could....

[Blueline]

This is not that bad for me as I dropped Air Cannotia as a carrier years ago

[TheGreatestX]

LAX is cut. LAS will return on Thurs and Suns.

[flyeiaPR]

This topic would make for great discussion at the next EIA Beer & Bull session. Until then, we wanted to address some of the points made in this thread.

1. Air Canada has made a scheduling change and it appears there have been a number of cuts made across the system. It’s not an Edmonton-specific schedule change or cut.

2. Vegas is our largest US market with LA being number two – it’s roughly half the size of the Vegas market. That being said, leisure markets will be more volatile in a weaker economy while business markets tend to be more stable.

3. Edmonton’s US air service market continues to be very strong overall. For example, in January 2010 (compared to January 2009) our seats were only down 1% and our passenger numbers are up 8.5%.

4. Our newest US city, Houston served by Continental, is performing extremely well; even though it was launched in a weaker economy.

5. We will still have service to both Vegas and LA, so Edmonton doesn’t lose any destinations.

6. The US carriers, and increasingly WestJet, have historically and consistently provided the significant majority of US air service from Edmonton.

7. Schedule changes provide opportunities for others to increase capacity or enter into a new market.

[Gemini]

I was going to look up Air Canada holiday packages for going to New York.
Now I am thinking Air Canada may not have direct flights there. Would hate to have to land at Toronto, Montreal then have to get another plane. Is there any other carriers that go directly to NY?.

[Hilman]

^ There are no non-stop (direct) flights to NYC, rumor has it Westjet may start one. When I went to NYC I took the Northwest (Delta now) flight via MSP (6.5 hours total) to Newark or JFK. There are now 4 daily flights to MSP which makes for a more flexible connection depending on your needs. You can also connect via ORD which is around 6.5 hours in total as well using United to LGA.

[Gemini]

^Thank you for the info. Hopefully Westjet does start one.
It would be great not to have to stop and transfer. Sorry, not to sure of your abbreviations but MSP must be Minniapolis/St.Paul.

[Hilman]

^ Sorry yes,

ORD is Chicago O'Hare
JFK is JFK in New York
LGA is LaGuardia in New York

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by flyeiaPR

This topic would make for great discussion at the next EIA Beer & Bull session. Until then, we wanted to address some of the points made in this thread.

1. Air Canada has made a scheduling change and it appears there have been a number of cuts made across the system. It’s not an Edmonton-specific schedule change or cut.

2. Vegas is our largest US market with LA being number two – it’s roughly half the size of the Vegas market. That being said, leisure markets will be more volatile in a weaker economy while business markets tend to be more stable.

3. Edmonton’s US air service market continues to be very strong overall. For example, in January 2010 (compared to January 2009) our seats were only down 1% and our passenger numbers are up 8.5%.

4. Our newest US city, Houston served by Continental, is performing extremely well; even though it was launched in a weaker economy.

5. We will still have service to both Vegas and LA, so Edmonton doesn’t lose any destinations.

6. The US carriers, and increasingly WestJet, have historically and consistently provided the significant majority of US air service from Edmonton.

7. Schedule changes provide opportunities for others to increase capacity or enter into a new market.

Why do I grit my teeth every time I read some news-bite from EIA that attempts to justify service loss - it sounds so pathetic and distracts (or tries to) from the lack of any announcement of new flights - or initiatives to secure new flights. EIA is such a bureaucracy - a holdover from when the Feds were running the place. Lets privatize it and save us from its community "Board".

[McBoo]

Originally Posted by Hilman

... When I went to NYC I took the Northwest (Delta now) flight via MSP (6.5 hours total) to Newark or JFK. There are now 4 daily flights to MSP which makes for a more flexible connection depending on your needs. You can also connect via ORD which is around 6.5 hours in total as well using United to LGA.

Not sure of ORD, I'm developing a healthy aversion to any of the "world's biggest headaches, err airports" - I have enough t-shirts and blisters. I do know, United seems to often be more expensive than NW (now Delta). What I liked about NW/Delta via MSP is not just choice of connecting flights - but choice of NY airports.

BTW E-Trek, I share your frustration (at times) but you'd much rather be a YEG bureaucrat than a YYC bureaucrat tonight.

AC gambled, and lost big time on San Diego via YYC - other mainline carriers are taking their metal off YYC. Deserved, yes, but still a tough pill for them to swallow. Can Tokyo be far behind on YYC's chopping block???

[edmonton daily photo]

Personally I love ORD and have had great service and rates flying United.

[Bill]

It appears that Air Canada wants to get out of the airline business in Edmonton, and wants to hand its existing business over to the likes of Westjet.

If there is hope, it's Westjet.

[McBoo]

Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo

Personally I love ORD and have had great service and rates flying United.

As mentioned, I haven't been through ORD - you could be very well right. I liked the choice of NY airports via MSP and as to big, well, my real comfort zone is a nice 20m airport. I mean, I'd kill to have an Oslo Lufthavn. Kill or be killed and go to airport heaven if such a thing there be.

[andy8244]

...Please tell me you can still get direct to London Heathrow from here?

[chupa]

The London flights are uneffected and infact go to daily this spring...We also will see Thomas Cook return with its service to LGW with a A330-300.Aswell we see Frankfurt return with Air Transat using a A330-200.

[ChrisD]

^Yes.

[RTA]

Originally Posted by andy8244

...Please tell me you can still get direct to London Heathrow from here?

Keeping your escape route open?

[els]

Originally Posted by chupa

This is the third time in the last 10 years AC has added YEG-LAX and dropped it.I have a feeling they need the aircraft in Toronto seeing they just added 7 new U.S destinations from that city...They did say they were going to concentrate on Toronto and even YYC is feeling the effects.UA is also dropping mainline metal out of YYC with only one daily mainline flight between YYC-ORD and reducing its service across the YYC board with UAX taking over all other flights.Funny as just as we are getting ready to bounce back seats go down yet again only in about a year or so (according to economical focasts for Alberta) we will likely see a rebound.

Cant wait for the next AC annoucement saying ''new'' YEG-LAX for the fourth time in 10 years....Give me a break.
WestJet pound them down again if you could....

Looks like AC is competing head to head with Porter Airlines on the recent strengthening of the Toronto Hub. AC must have known ahead Porter is going on those Eastern commuter routes, operates from the Toronto Island Airport. AC just strike first!!

[AAAAE]

Looks like both of these flights will now resume in the fall, instead of being cancelled outright.
(LAX on mainline as well)

perhaps 'Carol' had some quick meetings with her friends in Toronto?

[Gemini]

I heard that Delta flys out of Edmonton to go to New York City non-stop.
If this is true, on average, how much would a 4 night 5 day trip to New York city cost in a fairly good hotel. Say sometime in April.
If anyone has been I would appreciate info on the hotel they stayed at.

[rime ice]

Its all about yield and edmonton is a very price sensitive market. Most of the traffic to LAX/LAS is leisure which unfortunately has low yield. I would hazard a guess that WestJet isn't making a ton a cash on that route either.

They have a lower cost structure (CASM) and they apparently have the finances to run this route on a thin margin.

AC is in a very different economic position and have a different strategy going forward. YEG-LAX and other marginal runs are being eliminated for the time being.

[Chump]

Originally Posted by Bill

Bye bye Air Canada. Hello Westjet.

I hope US carriers see EIA as a potential.

There is no future left for Air Canada in Edmonton. It's over.

And this is good news how exactly?

You really want AC to fail? Careful what you wish for.

[The_Cat]

I think it would be great for Air Canada to provide European connections like Amsterdam and Frankfurt. With the expansion opening in 2012, I hope AC is watching with interest.

[AAAAE]

Originally Posted by Gemini

I heard that Delta flys out of Edmonton to go to New York City non-stop.
If this is true, on average, how much would a 4 night 5 day trip to New York city cost in a fairly good hotel. Say sometime in April.
If anyone has been I would appreciate info on the hotel they stayed at.

Currently there are no direct (non-stop) flights to New York from Edmonton. Our best bet looks to be westJet, which is rumored to be introducing this route in the future. You will have to make a connection, but for the sake of Edmonton's air service, please don't make that connection in calgary!

[AAAAE]

Originally Posted by The_Cat

I think it would be great for Air Canada to provide European connections like Amsterdam and Frankfurt. With the expansion opening in 2012, I hope AC is watching with interest.

Air Canada doesnt currently fly to Amsterdam, I doubt their first city would be Edmonton.

Frankfurt may be a possibility.

[JustYeggin]

Originally Posted by Gemini

I heard that Delta flys out of Edmonton to go to New York City non-stop.
If this is true, on average, how much would a 4 night 5 day trip to New York city cost in a fairly good hotel. Say sometime in April.
If anyone has been I would appreciate info on the hotel they stayed at.

There's a direct same plane service from EWR to YEG. Flight leaves EWR at 6:00 AM and stops in MSP arriving in Edmonton at 11:30 or something like that.

I almost booked this flight yesterday...One way was around 165 USD all in

[MylesC]

Originally Posted by The_Cat

I think it would be great for Air Canada to provide European connections like Amsterdam and Frankfurt. With the expansion opening in 2012, I hope AC is watching with interest.

I doubt Amsterdam would be on the A/C list as it's a Northwest/KLM stronghold.

[Gemini]

Originally Posted by JustYeggin

There's a direct same plane service from EWR to YEG. Flight leaves EWR at 6:00 AM and stops in MSP arriving in Edmonton at 11:30 or something like that.

I almost booked this flight yesterday...One way was around 165 USD all in

Thanks for the post. I will look into that when I go to the travel agent.

[Gemini]

Originally Posted by AAAAE

Currently there are no direct (non-stop) flights to New York from Edmonton. Our best bet looks to be westJet, which is rumored to be introducing this route in the future. You will have to make a connection, but for the sake of Edmonton's air service, please don't make that connection in calgary!

I will try to make the connection in the States or Toronto

[davidnorwoodink]

Not too sure what's happening but the latest AC schedule shows both LAX and LAS as continuing, to LAX daily (E90) and LAS (E90) twice weekly. Heathrow goes daily on 28 March.

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by davidnorwoodink

Not too sure what's happening but the latest AC schedule shows both LAX and LAS as continuing, to LAX daily (E90) and LAS (E90) twice weekly. Heathrow goes daily on 28 March.

I am not seeing YEG to LAS or LAX NONSTOP when I try to book last Thursday in June (24th)and returning Sunday. Nor am I seeing anything in June in the AC schedule either.

The flights on the schedule connect through Calgary as the first option. This is a ridiculous option...instead we are now flying United through SFO. We have no intention of flying through YYC and will vote with our $$ to connect through other US Cities to ensure these routes stay strong. PLUS - we clear US customs in Edmonton - a BIG plus!!! and we times are better for us.

[TheGreatestX]

Originally Posted by EdmTrekker

I am not seeing YEG to LAS or LAX NONSTOP when I try to book last Thursday in June (24th)and returning Sunday. Nor am I seeing anything in June in the AC schedule either.

The flights on the schedule connect through Calgary as the first option. This is a ridiculous option...instead we are now flying United through SFO. We have no intention of flying through YYC and will vote with our $$ to connect through other US Cities to ensure these routes stay strong. PLUS - we clear US customs in Edmonton - a BIG plus!!! and we times are better for us.

So why don't you "vote with your $$" on the nonstop routes by WestJet and support them instead?

If people don't fly nonstop and always choose to make senseless connections elsewhere we will lose all non-stops to leisure markets like LAX and LAS.

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by TheGreatestX

So why don't you "vote with your $$" on the nonstop routes by WestJet and support them instead?

If people don't fly nonstop and always choose to make senseless connections elsewhere we will lose all non-stops to leisure markets like LAX and LAS.

Flying Edmonton to SFO also secures the SFO flight. And SFO is infinitely more important. LAS is secure no matter what - some airline will always fly it. I am a Star Alliance member (United and AC) and frankly AC or United has better prices every time I go to book. However I have flown Westjet out of Edmonton to the US and Mexico though - just not this trip. My preference though is AC as I find the staff onboard and the call centres much more professional - whereas Westjet staff at all levels have a too casual attitude with soppy jokes that are not appreciated by everyone and these irk me.

[EdmTrekker]

I see WJ schedules to Pto Vallarta appear less frequent for winter 2010/2011 than last year..while YYC is showing daily. Is Westjet slowly reducing its service to Edmonton....pulling an AC to feed its Calgary HUB?? Or is it beefing up YYC so it can steal market share from YEG on SunWing and Transat that have been flying non-stop? Has anyone looked at scheds for fall/winter 10/11?

[faraz]

Originally Posted by EdmTrekker

Flying Edmonton to SFO also secures the SFO flight. And SFO is infinitely more important. LAS is secure no matter what - some airline will always fly it. I am a Star Alliance member (United and AC) and frankly AC or United has better prices every time I go to book. However I have flown Westjet out of Edmonton to the US and Mexico though - just not this trip. My preference though is AC as I find the staff onboard and the call centres much more professional - whereas Westjet staff at all levels have a too casual attitude with soppy jokes that are not appreciated by everyone and these irk me.

I agree that LAS is very secure with the large numbers visiting it every year. SFO needs to be strenghtened along with LAX.

[TheGreatestX]

Originally Posted by EdmTrekker

I see WJ schedules to Pto Vallarta appear less frequent for winter 2010/2011 than last year..while YYC is showing daily. Is Westjet slowly reducing its service to Edmonton....pulling an AC to feed its Calgary HUB?? Or is it beefing up YYC so it can steal market share from YEG on SunWing and Transat that have been flying non-stop? Has anyone looked at scheds for fall/winter 10/11?

YEG-PVR is twice weekly, same as last winter.
YYC-PVR is three times weekly.

[localyokel]

whoa, people still fly Air Canada?

[IanO]

"I agree that LAS is very secure with the large numbers visiting it every year. SFO needs to be strenghtened along with LAX."

100% concur.

Unfortunately I just had a friend fly YEG-LAX-SFO to save $90.

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by localyokel

whoa, people still fly Air Canada?

Gladly.

[SteveB]

Originally Posted by localyokel

whoa, people still fly Air Canada?

Of course - what other airlines offer the same destinations, connections, lounge access and business class in the Edmonton market?

We all slam Air Canada for their Calgary bias, which we generally understand but don't agree with, but they are still best to fly with in many situations.

[chupa]

I would generally agree, but if going to Phoenix, Las Vegas or Palm springs its WestJet for me since they offer the only nonstops to those places with good schedules.AC also offers Vegas aswell as Sunwing but only on certain days, And I wasnt very impressed by US airways to Phoenix the last time we used them.

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by chupa

I would generally agree, but if going to Phoenix, Las Vegas or Palm springs its WestJet for me since they offer the only nonstops to those places with good schedules.AC also offers Vegas aswell as Sunwing but only on certain days, And I wasnt very impressed by US airways to Phoenix the last time we used them.

"Air Canada Drops Edmonton!!" - ok if that happened we would be sitting in the HO of Delta/KLM asking us to make Edmonton its Western Canadian HUB. What if we had truly open skies - no restrictions.....I say lets dump WJ and AC and let US airlines fly unimpeded here. We don't need AC (or for that matter WJ.) Lets promote pulling the plug and taking our chances in an open market.

[glasshead]

^I'm not an airline economics expert and truly am curious, but if it were open skies, what would stop airlines from choosing Vancouver, and more likely Seattle as the western hub?

[LO 044]

The federal government won't let Emirates have more flights let alone having a truly open skies policy.

I still say our best bet is someone like Air Berlin or Icelandair. And i'm not an expert on this but would dropping or significantly lowering airline landing fees for a year maybe entice someone like Emirates or Air Berlin or Icelandair?

Saying that, perhaps you say to any airline that can serve Germany at least 4 to 7 times a week, we'll drop your landing fees / taxes for 6 months / 1 year if you start / try out this route. Now you have Air Canada, Air Transat, Lufthansa and maybe Air Berlin fighting it out if the economics are better at the start. We then promote the hell out of this flight and get every bloody travel agent to book these flights to make an impression. Maybe the airline stays after year 1.

Just a suggestion. Any airline or airport policy experts out there want to comment?

[Glenco]

Originally Posted by LO 044

The federal government won't let Emirates have more flights let alone having a truly open skies policy.

I still say our best bet is someone like Air Berlin or Icelandair. And i'm not an expert on this but would dropping or significantly lowering airline landing fees for a year maybe entice someone like Emirates or Air Berlin or Icelandair?

Saying that, perhaps you say to any airline that can serve Germany at least 4 to 7 times a week, we'll drop your landing fees / taxes for 6 months / 1 year if you start / try out this route. Now you have Air Canada, Air Transat, Lufthansa and maybe Air Berlin fighting it out if the economics are better at the start. We then promote the hell out of this flight and get every bloody travel agent to book these flights to make an impression. Maybe the airline stays after year 1.

Just a suggestion. Any airline or airport policy experts out there want to comment?

EIA already have an incentive program where by they lower the terminal fees for new routes and then graduate them afterwards. This is not a new idea.

[LO 044]

^Good to know.

[cnr67]

Originally Posted by EdmTrekker

"Air Canada Drops Edmonton!!" - ok if that happened we would be sitting in the HO of Delta/KLM asking us to make Edmonton its Western Canadian HUB. What if we had truly open skies - no restrictions.....I say lets dump WJ and AC and let US airlines fly unimpeded here. We don't need AC (or for that matter WJ.) Lets promote pulling the plug and taking our chances in an open market.

I priced 5 tickets to PHNL from CYEG. This before Westjet flew there. AC quoted me $1200/person +tax. CYEG-CYVR-PHNL I laughed. I phoned United in Chicago and I was quoted $585/person taxes in.CYEG-KDEN-PHNL.AC would only go to $810 +tax. They lost 5 round trips to an American carrier. If Canadian airlines cannot provide the routes or fares, I agree, open it up to foreign airlines that will. Besides, AC will never get right. The day WJ begins long haul, which I expect will happen, AC will get it's a$$ kicked more so than it does now.

[JustYeggin]

Originally Posted by cnr67

I priced 5 tickets to PHNL from CYEG. This before Westjet flew there. AC quoted me $1200/person +tax. CYEG-CYVR-PHNL I laughed. I phoned United in Chicago and I was quoted $585/person taxes in.CYEG-KDEN-PHNL.AC would only go to $810 +tax. They lost 5 round trips to an American carrier. If Canadian airlines cannot provide the routes or fares, I agree, open it up to foreign airlines that will. Besides, AC will never get right. The day WJ begins long haul, which I expect will happen, AC will get it's a$$ kicked more so than it does now.

It just means that the AC flight is doing quite well.....whereas the United flights ex-DEN are not heavily booked. It's just yield management.

I have flown KIAD-KLAX on United for 79 one way and at times, the ticket price goes up to 250.

But as far as AC goes, I have flown many times, KDCA-CYYZ-HKG (in both J and Y) for way cheaper than flying on United or Continental


YOu can't generalize.

[cnr67]

Originally Posted by JustYeggin

It just means that the AC flight is doing quite well.....whereas the United flights ex-DEN are not heavily booked. It's just yield management.

I have flown KIAD-KLAX on United for 79 one way and at times, the ticket price goes up to 250.

But as far as AC goes, I have flown many times, KDCA-CYYZ-HKG (in both J and Y) for way cheaper than flying on United or Continental


YOu can't generalize.

I gave an example that's all. Open skies means just that. If a foreign carrier can fly me at a lesser cost and a Canadian one won't if they are able, then they ought lose the business.

[Escondido]

There's a lot of anti-Air Canada sentiment here, but I'd like to say thanks to Air Canada for providing year-round direct flights out of Edmonton that nobody else does - Ottawa and London, UK. I recently flew to Ottawa on AC for the simple reason that they offered the only direct flights. There and back the planes were full. Thanks, Air Canada, for a great trip!

[Blueline]

Hear a rumour that the expansion at the Naniamo - Cassidy airport would allow for improved AC service to the Island............ As long as you don't mind flying to Calgary
Just another reason to renew your hatred of ac

[grish]

Originally Posted by Escondido

There's a lot of anti-Air Canada sentiment here, but I'd like to say thanks to Air Canada for providing year-round direct flights out of Edmonton that nobody else does - Ottawa and London, UK. I recently flew to Ottawa on AC for the simple reason that they offered the only direct flights. There and back the planes were full. Thanks, Air Canada, for a great trip!

that's very nice, but what of the places that they don't fly to from Edmonton. I don't mean some hidden towns. I mean some big destinations. There are many more places that AC does not fly to from edmonton, than they do. I would continue disliking AC until that improves.

[sundance]

The anti-Air Canada sentiment comes from years of broken promises and them favoring Calgary over Edmonton. I realize they are in the business to make money and hub and spoke is more efficient, BUT I am not in the business of spending my time laying over in various cities.

Westjet follows a more point to point system, which means I can fly to more destinations directly from Edmonton.

[Mercucio]

Honestly, does everyone believe that Air Canada is indifferent to customers from the Edmonton area? Economics fuel their decisions. I'm sure if there was valid and sustainable demand for routes to fly directly from Edmonton, they would be here.

For example, hard as it is to hear, it probably makes more business sense at the moment to have a nonstop Frankfurt flight from Calgary and funnel any Edmonton fares through there.

It's why I agree with EIA's recent campaign. It's ultimately up to us to use our airport in a way that will get us the flights. I don't fly through Calgary unless there is no other option.

Making Air Canada some kind of anti-Edmonton boogieman is not productive. After all, they will be a big part of our success, like it or not.

[sundance]

I'd have to agree with you Mercurio, Air Canada isn't doing many things to be evil, they are doing it because it is the most cost effective for themselves. However their actions don't serve my interests, hence Westjet seems to get my business more often then other carriers.

[LO 044]

I have never had a problem flying Air Canada. I have flown WestJet before and i actually do prefer Air Canada. Saying that, my choice to fly will be based on flying time, connection time, aircraft type, departure / arrival time. I'll fly Air Transat if it makes sense. Yes i won't connect through Calgary but even WestJet does this at times so stop with the argument that WestJet is such a large point to point carrier. I don't care which airline i fly with as long as i don't connect through Calgary.

Another thing i find funny is when people say "Air Canada could fly from Edmonton to Frankfurt (for example) but they choose not to so i'll continue to not use them". Well why doesn't WestJet buy or lease a couple of 767's and fly the route if it's such a sure thing? You know why? Becasue it does not make economic sense to their model. Air Canada has its own model and WestJet has its own and they both do fairly well. Why doesn't Air Transat start a year round 2 or 3 times weekly flight since they have the metal? Why hasn't Lufthansa, Air France, KLM or British Airways come here? Lufthansa we know why but how about the others? Has Martinair comeback? No. Has LOT Polish Airlines come back? No. Mexicana left YEG but stayed at YYC. Are you going to boycott Mexicana?

I find it hilarious when people compare WestJet to Air Canada. It is apples and oranges and there are pros and cons to both. I'll continue to fly with whomever satisfies the most options for me. I hope to see WestJet convince Air France / KLM to fly to YEG as part of their codeshare agreement or guess where we'll be connecting through, YYC or YYZ. Let's see if WestJet proves me wrong. Of course people will then say it wasn't WestJet's choice as to where Air France / KLM flies and gets connecting passengers.

[Hilman]

^ As a matter of fact yes. I just boycotted Mexicana due to them dropping YEG for my trip to Costa Rica and flew via Houston on Continental. I was going to fly Mexicana to Mexico City but after dropping YEG they will get zero of my business in the future (unless they restart YEG of course).

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Mercucio

Honestly, does everyone believe that Air Canada is indifferent to customers from the Edmonton area? Economics fuel their decisions. I'm sure if there was valid and sustainable demand for routes to fly directly from Edmonton, they would be here.

For example, hard as it is to hear, it probably makes more business sense at the moment to have a nonstop Frankfurt flight from Calgary and funnel any Edmonton fares through there.

It's why I agree with EIA's recent campaign. It's ultimately up to us to use our airport in a way that will get us the flights. I don't fly through Calgary unless there is no other option.

Making making Air Canada some kind of anti-Edmonton boogieman is not productive. After all, they will be a big part of our success, like it or not.

I do. I'm fed up with connecting through Calgary.
Calgary has a regional catchment of over 1 million. So does Edmonton.
Why can't both markets be served together?

If Westjet can add destinations to Edmonton, why can't Air Canada?
Why should Edmonton be the loser in this deal?

How about all Montreal flights be funneled through Toronto Pearson?

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by Bill

I do. I'm fed up with connecting through Calgary.
Calgary has a regional catchment of over 1 million. So does Edmonton.
Why can't both markets be served together?

If Westjet can add destinations to Edmonton, why can't Air Canada?
Why should Edmonton be the loser in this deal?

How about all Montreal flights be funneled through Toronto Pearson?

WestJet flies from Calgary to Orlando, Nassau, St John's, Newark, London, Windsor, San Diego but those flights are not available from Edmonton? Why not? Calgary has a regional catchment of over 1 million. So does Edmonton. Why can't both markets be served together? If WestJet can add destinations to Calgary, why can't it offer the same destinations to Edmonton? We have the same catchment area right? Why should Edmonton be the loser in the deal? It is proven that we have enough people flying to New York and Orlando and St John's?

Let me hear everyone's excuses for WestJet.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by LO 044

WestJet flies from Calgary to Orlando, Nassau, St John's, Newark, London, Windsor, San Diego but those flights are not available from Edmonton? Why not? Calgary has a regional catchment of over 1 million. So does Edmonton. Why can't both markets be served together? If WestJet can add destinations to Calgary, why can't it offer the same destinations to Edmonton? We have the same catchment area right? Why should Edmonton be the loser in the deal? It is proven that we have enough people flying to New York and Orlando and St John's?

Let me hear everyone's excuses for WestJet.

Well Sir, what has Air Canada done for Edmonton lately?

[LO 044]

^How do i even answer a question like that? They added Montego Bay Jamaica or they haven't scrapped YEG-LHR or they pulled YEG-LAS and YEG-LAX. I never said they were the best airline in the world but can you honestly say that about WestJet? I've flown regional airlines in Europe that are better than WestJet and Air Canada combined and have better pricing and service.

The point is the two companies are very different and uncomparable. Believe me i get frustrated with AC on many issues but the fact is is that if AC dropped LHR, i highly doubt WestJet would come in to rescue Edmonton and provide a flight on their own or convince KLM to add one. The third comment on this thread is yours.
"So sick of Air Canada. What a POS. I wait for the day that West Jet moves ahead of Air Canada all the way."

Well i guess we're still waiting and we will be for a long time.

By the way, can anyone tell me where the WestJet lounge is at YEG?

[Glenco]

Originally Posted by LO 044

WestJet flies from Calgary to Orlando, Nassau, St John's, Newark, London, Windsor, San Diego but those flights are not available from Edmonton? Why not? Calgary has a regional catchment of over 1 million. So does Edmonton. Why can't both markets be served together? If WestJet can add destinations to Calgary, why can't it offer the same destinations to Edmonton? We have the same catchment area right? Why should Edmonton be the loser in the deal? It is proven that we have enough people flying to New York and Orlando and St John's?

Let me hear everyone's excuses for WestJet.

Lets just say Westjets business model works better for Edmonton than does Air Canada's. YEG is the fifth largest airport in Canada in passenger volumes and yet it is WS third largest market. I do not know how we rank with AC but it cannot be very good which is a pity because of their near monoploly in overseas flights. They are able to offer Frankfurt out of Ottawa instead of pushing everyone through YUL or YYZ why can they not offer that to YEG?
I wish they would step up and offer better service but so far they only seem interested in introducing new service as a last resort to cover their market share. That business model will cost them big time.

[AAAAE]

Originally Posted by Glenco

I wish they would step up and offer better service but so far they only seem interested in introducing new service as a last resort to cover their market share. That business model will cost them big time.

They are quite happy to start new "speculative" service. Just not to Edmonton. Athens, Barcelona, Madrid, Copenhagen, and Tokyo are all recent starts from cities that didn't have that service before.. meanwhile we get stuck with London, one measly flight. Not even Frankfurt, which the numbers show would be highly profitable.

[JustYeggin]

Frankly speaking, both WestJet and Air Canada offer mediocre service out of YEG.

Starting in May, service between Edmonton and The second largest travel market in the US (Los Angeles area) will see 4 weekly flights, while San Francisco will be served by 3 weeklies on WestJet and the 2 CR7's offered by United.

If California is the largest market for Edmonton-USA traffic, need I say more?!?!?!?

[LO 044]

They are able to offer Frankfurt out of Ottawa instead of pushing everyone through YUL or YYZ why can they not offer that to YEG?
I wish they would step up and offer better service but so far they only seem interested in introducing new service as a last resort to cover their market share. That business model will cost them big time.

I'm assuming that the business seats are filled in many more cases out of YOW than out of YEG. Someone can correct if i'm wrong though. Perhaps politics has a hand in it as well as the government does protect AC from outside competition such as Emirates but that's a story in itself.

I agree with you in terms of AC's business model but unfortunately they have no competition out of Edmonton. I think WestJet should have aligned themselves with Air Transat becasue they go after the same "type" of passenger, non-business. At least Air Transat will fly here, they have proven it. You cannot say the same about British Airways, KLM, Air France, etc. When WestJet begins codesharing with AF / KL, we will be funneled through YYC, YUL and YYZ.

[McBoo]

Originally Posted by LO 044

...The point is the two companies are very different and uncomparable....By the way, can anyone tell me where the WestJet lounge is at YEG?

It’s a fair question, and let me try to answer because there are times I wonder myself if I don’t hold the two airlines to different standards. And, in fact I do. But there are some factors that mitigate my being more forgiving of WJ, at least so I think:

WJ was conceived and built by entrepreneurs who live in Calgary and therefore placed its head office and all the associated support staff there. That it would have a YYC bias doesn’t surprise, or for that matter annoy me. Where it sees a logical business opportunity to fight for business from YEG, it does, ergo: YEG-SFO, YEG-LAS, YEG, umm Palm Springs. As WJ brings more aircraft into service, I’m sure that YEG will get its fair share of increased flights – a supposition based on the fact YEG is already WJ’s third best market, exceeded only by its two (not four) hubs, feature cities, whatever (YYC, YYZ).

To be fair, AC has, yes, maintained YEG-LHR, and I’d argue seems to be doing quite well by that. And yes, there are places you can fly non-stop from YEG on AC that you can’t on WJ. But I hold them to a different standard I guess, because where WJ seems to be making sensible business decisions, AC has engaged in an insane, financially ruinous policy of trying to match WJ flight for flight out of YYC on routes that are clearly marginal.

I mean, I think it’s pretty clear that there’s only enough San Diego bound pax on the entire prairies to justify one flight a day – and that is the WJ flight. The list of failed AC attempts to submarine WJ is extensive, and hey, I wouldn’t care less except that sucking sound you hear is Dash-8’s flying every friggen hour out of YEG trying to support that hasn’t-worked-before-why-on-earth-will-it-work-now strategy.

If AC wanted to do right by its long-suffering shareholders it would close that base, hub, featurecitythinggie at YYC, stop the financial bloodbath and operate only two hubs, YVR and YYZ (okay, maybe a Jazz mini-hubfeaturecitythingie at YHZ) sort of like the other, you know, successful airline does. That way Calgary gets the flights it deserves and so does Edmonton.

And that’s why I get so pi**ed at AC. If it had a less-than-lunatic business plan we’d all win. Well, maybe not YYC but you have to crack a few eggs to make an omlet ….

[Rocket252]

^ Here here
An excellent explanation our current situation at YEG and why I despise AC so much.

AC stop this insane competition with Westjet at YYC, have only two hubs and fairly distribute flights based on demand.

[kona]

Unfortunately AC is running a business that is a fact, they have shareholders to make happy (at least they should be trying too).

Personally, I like AC because of they have lounges, I get perks from my status with AC, they have a very decent business class (best in NA). I will still support AC because of this. I wish they had more service out of YEG, but I can still use them and not have to go through Calgary. I can get anywhere want easily using one of the United or Continental routes or an AC route. Westjet just does not have this type of service.

[JustYeggin]

Originally Posted by McBoo

It’s a fair question, and let me try to answer because there are times I wonder myself if I don’t hold the two airlines to different standards. And, in fact I do. But there are some factors that mitigate my being more forgiving of WJ, at least so I think:

WJ was conceived and built by entrepreneurs who live in Calgary and therefore placed its head office and all the associated support staff there. That it would have a YYC bias doesn’t surprise, or for that matter annoy me. Where it sees a logical business opportunity to fight for business from YEG, it does, ergo: YEG-SFO, YEG-LAS, YEG, umm Palm Springs. As WJ brings more aircraft into service, I’m sure that YEG will get its fair share of increased flights – a supposition based on the fact YEG is already WJ’s third best market, exceeded only by its two (not four) hubs, feature cities, whatever (YYC, YYZ).

To be fair, AC has, yes, maintained YEG-LHR, and I’d argue seems to be doing quite well by that. And yes, there are places you can fly non-stop from YEG on AC that you can’t on WJ. But I hold them to a different standard I guess, because where WJ seems to be making sensible business decisions, AC has engaged in an insane, financially ruinous policy of trying to match WJ flight for flight out of YYC on routes that are clearly marginal.

I mean, I think it’s pretty clear that there’s only enough San Diego bound pax on the entire prairies to justify one flight a day – and that is the WJ flight. The list of failed AC attempts to submarine WJ is extensive, and hey, I wouldn’t care less except that sucking sound you hear is Dash-8’s flying every friggen hour out of YEG trying to support that hasn’t-worked-before-why-on-earth-will-it-work-now strategy.

If AC wanted to do right by its long-suffering shareholders it would close that base, hub, featurecitythinggie at YYC, stop the financial bloodbath and operate only two hubs, YVR and YYZ (okay, maybe a Jazz mini-hubfeaturecitythingie at YHZ) sort of like the other, you know, successful airline does. That way Calgary gets the flights it deserves and so does Edmonton.

And that’s why I get so pi**ed at AC. If it had a less-than-lunatic business plan we’d all win. Well, maybe not YYC but you have to crack a few eggs to make an omlet ….

According to many sources, YYC generates decent yields on its flights (better than YEG anyways)...so AC continues to have a significance presence.

As for Ottawa, I would think that with all the government, embassies and NGOs, there's naturally a lot of demand for international travel.

Just think of all the OECD meetings in Paris, NATO meetings in Brussels, FAO meetings in Rome, UN meetings in Geneva, WHO meetings in Geneva, etc,etc, etc...that government employees attend...I don't think provincial government employees get to attend major international bilateral and multilateral meetings.

So I think Ottawa naturally should have a decent international service!!!!

[McBoo]

Originally Posted by JustYeggin

...According to many sources, YYC generates decent yields on its flights (better than YEG anyways)...so AC continues to have a significance presence.

Great,and the sources are....you can cite?

[JustYeggin]

Originally Posted by McBoo

Great,and the sources are....you can cite?

I should have said..."according to many UNCONFIRMED sources"....

[McBoo]

^LOL. Last time I was at YYC, I watched five AC flights board - not one with more than 60% load factor and a few under 50%. I think your sources must be from the Calgary Chamber of Commerce ....

[grish]

I don't know how you can "watch" to see 50 or 60% loads. If these flights originated elsewhere, the other 40 to 50% may have been already on board. Also, due to pricing, a full business class beats a full plane any day. I would take your observations on a par with unconfirmed sources.

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by grish

Also, due to pricing, a full business class beats a full plane any day.

Agreed. This is something that unfortunately Edmonton cannot compete with Calgary at. We just don't have the business passangers relative to Calgary. I think we can all agree on that.

Again, for all you Westjetters, if YEG-FRA, YEG-AMS, YEG-CDG would all work why hasn't WestJet leased a plane or two or asked their codeshare partners to start these routes. Everyone says it makes so much sense so naturally it would be a win win situation for WestJet.

[sundance]

EIA had already released information a few years ago that there is enough people that we can support daily flights to New York, Orlando and Dallas.

It is something that people can compete in, but your airline's business model needs to be very solid to withstand pressure from Westjet and Air Canada.

[McBoo]

Originally Posted by grish

I don't know how you can "watch" to see 50 or 60% loads. If these flights originated elsewhere, the other 40 to 50% may have been already on board. Also, due to pricing, a full business class beats a full plane any day. I would take your observations on a par with unconfirmed sources.

They were CRJs and a E190 - all at the gate long before anyone showed up for boarding. Believe me, they were good and empty when the gate opened.

[Hilman]

I think one of the major reasons for the disdain of AC is for the largest airline in Canada, where do they really take Edmontonians?

Non-Stop Flights in Canada

Vancouver, Calgary, Grande Prairie, Ft. McMurray, Yellowknife, Saskatoon, Regina, Winnipeg, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal.

Westjet flies to all of those plus Comox, Abbotsford, Victoria, Kamloops, Kelowna, Hamilton and Halifax. There is nothing worse than flying past Kelowna, connecting in Vancouver and then flying back east to get to Kelowna.


Now for international flights, Air Canada flies to Los Angeles and Las Vegas with codeshare partnerships to San Fransisco (United Express), Denver (United Express), Chicago (United Express), Houston (Continental) and London, UK.

Westjet serves (with mainline metal) Maui, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Palm Springs, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Cabo San Lucas, Cancun, Puerto Vallarta and Mazatlan.


Scoreboard
AC 14 non-stop flights (plus 4 code sharing flights)
Westjet 28

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by Hilman

I think one of the major reasons for the disdain of AC is for the largest airline in Canada, where do they really take Edmontonians?

Non-Stop Flights in Canada

Vancouver, Calgary, Grande Prairie, Ft. McMurray, Yellowknife, Saskatoon, Regina, Winnipeg, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal.

Westjet flies to all of those plus Comox, Abbotsford, Victoria, Kamloops, Kelowna, Hamilton and Halifax. There is nothing worse than flying past Kelowna, connecting in Vancouver and then flying back east to get to Kelowna.


Now for international flights, Air Canada flies to Los Angeles and Las Vegas with codeshare partnerships to San Fransisco (United Express), Denver (United Express), Chicago (United Express), Houston (Continental) and London, UK.

Westjet serves (with mainline metal) Maui, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Palm Springs, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Cabo San Lucas, Cancun, Puerto Vallarta and Mazatlan.


Scoreboard
AC 14 non-stop flights (plus 4 code sharing flights)
Westjet 28

I'd really be interested to see if people in maybe Winnipeg, Regina and Saskatoon have the same disdain for AC as people in Edmonton. This could be true of course i just don't know. The problem is is that people in Calgary, Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto probably don't hate AC because they get good service and that's enough for AC to make money. They don't have to worry about YEG or YWG for example.

To me personally San Francisco, Los Angeles, Palm Springs, and Phoenix can be summed up as 1 flight to the Southwest US. If you do business there or travel to one of those places every couple of months that's great for you. But wouldn't you trade in Palm Spring for Newark? Wouldn't you trade in Phoenix for Washington? This way you can connect to international flights out of those cities. Los Angeles would probably be a good option to connect to South America. The other flights you mention are sun flights albeit year round. If you are comparing Mazatlan to Chicago, i don't how much more comparing apples and oranges that could be.

If Westjet flew to Chicago or Mineapolis or New York and had good prices, i would in fact use them because i could connect to Europe. If they flew to Seattle and had connecting flights to Asia, that would be useful as well. Don't get me wrong, it is great that WestJet offers the flights they do but if AC doesn't compete with them on those flights, that's good for WestJet but not necessarily good for us based on prices. Perhaps Delta can give us a flight here and there and use connecting passengers from Alberta to fill a flight. Hopefully this will happen sooner than later.

Maui, San Francisco, Palm Springs, Phoenix, Cabo San Lucas, and Mazatlan are shown as seasonal routes for WestJet. If you include those flights, you have to include AC's flights to Cancun and Montego Bay. Not that the scoreboard would change much.

[LO 044]

This just in. Southwest Airlines pulls out of partnership talks with WestJet.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/So...503/story.html

[JustYeggin]

^ Not very surprising at all...WestJet is not going to stick with the Southwest business model, so DL is the better partner

[Chump]

Originally Posted by LO 044

I'd really be interested to see if people in maybe Winnipeg, Regina and Saskatoon have the same disdain for AC as people in Edmonton.

Can't speak for the 219,999 other people in Saskatoon but my impression would be not so much (disdain, that is). First off AC doesn't fly here, Jazz does, and Jazz has been great to this city for the most part as has westjet. When new routes get announced the press is very positive around the airline and they have a good relationship with the Airport Authority. Direct flights to the US from Saskatoon are nothing to sneeze at for a city this size: Chicago, Denver and Minneapolis with Denver being a Jazz codeshare I believe.

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by JustYeggin

^ Not very surprising at all...WestJet is not going to stick with the Southwest business model, so DL is the better partner

Will WestJet ever introduce a business class? If not, i don't see them that different from Southwest.

[McBoo]

WJ is a sort of Jet Blue / Southwest hybrid. One aircraft type/ one class only / corny jokes ala Southwest. But when it choose YYZ over Hamilton, then live TV, etc ... it took some of the Jet Blue model too.

[YEG User]

Originally Posted by McBoo

^LOL. Last time I was at YYC, I watched five AC flights board - not one with more than 60% load factor and a few under 50%. I think your sources must be from the Calgary Chamber of Commerce ....

And a co-worker of mine was just complaining last week that he was bumped from a YYC-YEG flight on AC that was oversold. On his flight he sat next to a lady that said the previous 5 flights had all been oversold too.

If I were to base things solely on my co-workers experince I would agree completely with the other poster. If I remember the news stories correctly both AC and WS ran load factors of over 80% last month, of course they don't release info on a city by city basis (that I know of).