2012 'best neighbourhoods' by Avenue Mag

[IanO]

No. 1. Strathcona
No. 2. Garneau
No. 3. Westmount
No. 4. Oliver
No. 5. Cloverdale
6-10. Crestwood, Highlands, Belgravia, Windermere and Parkallen
Stories

http://www.avenueedmonton.com/articl...bourhoods-2012

[Komrade]

Doesnt surprise me. Those have always been the 'it/trendy/artsy/in-the-know' areas

[Gord Lacey]

Nice list.

I posted a somewhat similar topic (neighbours) to my blog the other day, if anyone cares to read it:
http://gordovision.com/2012/07/28/ne...t-choose-them/

[Marcel Petrin]

Originally Posted by Komrade

Doesnt surprise me. Those have always been the 'it/trendy/artsy/in-the-know' areas

I don't agree. Strathcona only started to become what it is today in the late 80's, and Westmount used to have a fairly poor name in terms of crime and the like even well in to the 90's.

[Cal76]

Crestwood........ now that's a bit of a surprise. Nothing wrong with it... but could have said the same about Gold Bar, Capilano or Bonnie Doon. Good, certainly; great, I'm not so sure.

[GreenSPACE]

Notice most of them are mature neighbourhoods. Is that significant?

[jamesacer]

this should have been the top ten neighborhoods if you are poor, Green party/NDP, hipster, environmentalist, Occupy movement sympathizer, trendster...one or a combination of the above...

seriously though, where is Glenora on the list? Glenora, specifically Old Glenora, should easily be number one, or at least top 3, on the list...

and Windermere??? no thanks, that burb like any other new burb going up these days is going to look like crap in 25 years... what a joke, give me Riverdale, instead

[EveB]

You can't get ten best neighborhoods for everybody. I love Garneau. It has everything I could want including nice houses I can look at as I take long picturesque walks.

However, I am a childfree, intellectual, middle-class (you need this to afford the rent), un-domestic and oppose the Occupy movement only on tactical grounds.

I wouldn't try to raise children here though some people do. It's too close to the silly parts of Whyte Avenue for one thing. If I weren't bookish myself I'd be annoyed that the local Second Cup is filled with people peering into laptops and textbooks who get annoyed if you try to party there. etc. etc.

Neighborhoods have personalities. Unless the neighborhood is truly dreadful, it will be great for some subset of the population.

Eve

[howie]

Originally Posted by jamesacer

this should have been the top ten neighborhoods if you are poor, Green party/NDP, hipster, environmentalist, Occupy movement sympathizer, trendster...one or a combination of the above...

Such an obvious list coming from a magazine that likes to be seen as, in no particular order, green, hip, environmentally aware, trendy. Meh.

[edmonton daily photo]

Originally Posted by jamesacer

this should have been the top ten neighborhoods if you are poor, Green party/NDP, hipster, environmentalist, Occupy movement sympathizer, trendster...one or a combination of the above...

seriously though, where is Glenora on the list? Glenora, specifically Old Glenora, should easily be number one, or at least top 3, on the list...

and Windermere??? no thanks, that burb like any other new burb going up these days is going to look like crap in 25 years... what a joke, give me Riverdale, instead

Glenora has next to no commercial amenities what so ever.. It's not really walkable in the fact that you can't walk to the store or work..

Westmount has 124 st, strathconna and garneu have whyte and 109st. Being along a mixed use commercial strip seems to be a pretty clear must have!

[edmonton daily photo]

Originally Posted by howie

Such an obvious list coming from a magazine that likes to be seen as, in no particular order, green, hip, environmentally aware, trendy. Meh.

Is someone's neighborhood not on the list and a little bitter? Or maybe someone is keeping up to what is becoming increasingly important in a neighborhood and has a death grip on some suburban ideals..

[jamesacer]

To say that Glenora has no commercial amenities is not accurate...Glenora is right by the High Street shopping complex, MEC, Vi's for Pies, etc.

Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo

Glenora has next to no commercial amenities what so ever.. It's not really walk able in the face that you can't walk to the store or work..

Westmount has 124 st, strathconna and garneu have whyte and 109st. Being along a mixed use commercial strip seems to be a pretty clear must have!

[Gord Lacey]

Jamesacer, that's not part of Glenora though (except for Vi's); Glenora ends at the bridge over Groat Road. The area you're referring to is part of Westmount, which is third on the list.

[howie]

Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo

Is someone's neighborhood not on the list and a little bitter? Or maybe someone is keeping up to what is becoming increasingly important in a neighborhood and has a death grip on some suburban ideals..

Dunno. You'll have to ask whomever you think it is. My observations are what they are, that's all.

[Marcel Petrin]

Originally Posted by Cal76

Crestwood........ now that's a bit of a surprise. Nothing wrong with it... but could have said the same about Gold Bar, Capilano or Bonnie Doon. Good, certainly; great, I'm not so sure.

Crestwood has some of the nicest houses in the city along the River Valley. It's also pretty much a "central" neighborhood these days as well. Not surprising at all that it would make the list, it's been one of Edmonton's "la tee dah" neighborhoods for as long as it's been around.

Originally Posted by Gord Lacey

Jamesacer, that's not part of Glenora though (except for Vi's); Glenora ends at the bridge over Groat Road. The area you're referring to is part of Westmount, which is third on the list.

And those areas aren't exactly close to most of Glenora, in terms of walking distance. Anywhere from 5-18 blocks, depending on what exactly you're talking about.

[Alex.L]

I'm looking forward to moving into my new house in Windermere and being a 10min walk from the grocery store, staples, tons of food options, banks, canadian tire, farmer's market, cineplex, a couple liquor stores, doctor/dentist, and whatever else they decide to put in there. Also, I've already met a handful of my neighbors and I haven't even taken possession yet.

Glad to see we made the list! Now that I no longer have to commute downtown this is the perfect location for my soon-to-be wife & I, and our future family.

[jamesacer]

Highstreet is within easy walking distance to Old Glenora which is the best part of Glenora anyways

Yeah, Highstreet is technically part of Westmount, but it's funny how many businesses in that area still have 'Glenora' in their name

Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin

Crestwood has some of the nicest houses in the city along the River Valley. It's also pretty much a "central" neighborhood these days as well. Not surprising at all that it would make the list, it's been one of Edmonton's "la tee dah" neighborhoods for as long as it's been around.

And those areas aren't exactly close to most of Glenora, in terms of walking distance. Anywhere from 5-18 blocks, depending on what exactly you're talking about.

[jamesacer]

Downtown -2
Burbs +2

how typical in E-town...downtown loses again...

Originally Posted by Ander

I'm looking forward to moving into my new house in Windermere and being a 10min walk from the grocery store, staples, tons of food options, banks, canadian tire, farmer's market, cineplex, a couple liquor stores, doctor/dentist, and whatever else they decide to put in there. Also, I've already met a handful of my neighbors and I haven't even taken possession yet.

Glad to see we made the list! Now that I no longer have to commute downtown this is the perfect location for my soon-to-be wife & I, and our future family.

[edmonton daily photo]

Originally Posted by jamesacer

To say that Glenora has no commercial amenities is not accurate...Glenora is right by the High Street shopping complex, MEC, Vi's for Pies, etc.

now list all the amenities that oliver, Strathcona and garneau have...

I think the list is a little more comprehensive than a high end strip mall and a pie shop

[edmonton daily photo]

Originally Posted by jamesacer

Downtown -2
Burbs +2

how typical in E-town...downtown loses again...

The only detriment to Windermere is the distance from the core in my opinion. Other than that its a wonderful planned neighborhood. Very walkable and a good assortment of big box and local biz.

[IanO]

'Very walkable and a good assortment of big box and local biz.'

http://blog.mastermaq.ca/2012/07/07/...s-are-winning/

[edmonton daily photo]

^ Ian there is nothing wrong with Windermere.. aside from how far out it is. IMO

I wouldn't live there but a lot of people like it.

it's not hard to see why it's on the list.

[Alex.L]

Originally Posted by jamesacer

Downtown -2
Burbs +2

how typical in E-town...downtown loses again...

No. Downtown -1 commuter because I now work from home. I've lived in 'the burbs' for a few years already, and my fiancee works just off the Henday. Doesn't make a lick of sense for us to live downtown.

Again, not everybody needs to live downtown.

[Alex.L]

Originally Posted by IanO

'Very walkable and a good assortment of big box and local biz.'

http://blog.mastermaq.ca/2012/07/07/...s-are-winning/

It's worth noting that this was written in July and the pictures/experience happened in February. Also, for no particular reason they walked down 170th, then drove to the other side of the lake instead of just walking through the neighborhood via paths, through parks, etc.

Also, this entire analysis was done while the area was still very much under construction, as it remains. The 'main street' of Currents is barely even started, the police station is under construction, and the small strips that will be home to neighborhood amenities and the like are still in the works.

I generally agree with everything Mack has to say regarding our fair city, but in this particular entry it's clear his mind was made up before he even ventured outside the core. He has written the neighborhood and ammenities off before they're even built.

[IanO]

Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo

^ Ian there is nothing wrong with Windermere.. aside from how far out it is. IMO

I wouldn't live there but a lot of people like it.

it's not hard to see why it's on the list.

That they do and that's fine, but to say it is very walkable is interesting.... it takes months to navigate that abortion of a current in a car, let alone on foot.

I do like the proximity to 3 golf courses and the river valley.

[Chmilz]

I'm hoping if the right commercial tenants move in, Griesbach will make that list. LRT is coming our way sooner than later and even without it, we're not far from either DT or Henday. I know a lady who rides her bicycle downtown to work everyday from here.

[ajs]

In my experience walkability is usually determined by those who experience sidewalks through a car windshield.

For instance, I live very close to Bonnie Doon Mall -- not much I need that isn't within easy walking distance. However, traffic circles, crosswalks that go no where, immense parking lagoons and no buffer between pedestrians and speedy traffic makes it an unpleasant walk and in some spots downright dangerous.

I haven't been to Windermere but I get the impression that it's commercial/retail area is on an order of magnitude 10 times that of Bonnie Doon Mall. Good luck with the walk.

As an aside, I would take a long look at the advertisers in Avenue Magazine and then consider how they compiled their list of neighborhoods.

[edmonton daily photo]

Originally Posted by IanO

That they do and that's fine, but to say it is very walkable is interesting.... it takes months to navigate that abortion of a current in a car, let alone on foot.

I do like the proximity to 3 golf courses and the river valley.

LOL!! to be fair I have never been out there and likely will never go. I am just familiar with the layout of the master plan... its a marked improvements over subdivision produced 15 years ago... it still a suburb though.

[IanO]

and yet far less walkable than subdivisions/neighbourhoods of a 80 years ago.

[edmonton daily photo]

^ yes well... 80 years ago Edmonton had an amazing trolley car network...

What a shame we lost that.

see below for map of the old street car lines.

[edmonton daily photo]

[Alex.L]

The walk might seem longer because instead of shop windows, traffic, and people to look at all you're left to look at on your way to the store in Windermere is fences, trees, ponds and grass.

THE HORROR!

I get that it's not dense, and it's not central, but I think the rhetoric is getting a little bit out of hand here. If we're afraid of a 25 minute walk then there are bigger problems plaguing us than density. I get that it's not for everyone, but neither is 'urban' living.

Focus on the people who want to live downtown and can't afford it instead of badgering the people who choose not to live downtown.

[IanO]

^We all choose to live how we live and should respect that (to a point obviously), but I find it sickening that they market that area/currents as walkable. Not to mention that 99% of people will drive and yes, most people will not walk that walk.

That said, I grew up in the SW just north of there and so it has a special place in my heart.

[edmonton daily photo]

^ Very true.. a lot of these catchphrases have no guidelines or criteria required to use them.

i guess that is where walk score is handy

My house in oliver gets an 83

A house on West Landing in Windermere right near the currents gets a 22

[Alex.L]

I guess one would have to define 'walkable' before actually getting to the root of the argument.

Anyway, I'm happy, you're happy, all is well.

[IanO]

^walkable as in to amenities and or neighbourhood conveniences, not a nice stroll after dinner to the storm water management pond and back.

[Alex.L]

Like I said, Windermere is walkable. Might have to cross a few streets, but it's doable.

[IanO]

Invite? I will bring a beer or two pre or post jaunt. I'd like to see first hand.

[Alex.L]

I'll let you know when we're all moved in. From where we are (Langdale) a person would have to cross 170th, which won't be great, but from Ambleside it would be a breeze.

[McBoo]

and so the scientific criteria was ......

Umm, love all those nieghbourhoods, but the determining criteria, other than a poll of certain VUE readers is what (?), I mean besides possibly (???) misleading.

Interesting. But credible?

[bolo]

I have friends who live about a 20 minute walk away from the Currents. They tried the walk once, but said it feels longer than it actually is and is quite boring. Both are fit people who run marathons regularly (funny thing is that they go to Garneau to run with the Running Room). They also go to the Currents regularly for shopping, dinner and movies. They just don't really consider it a trip they would want to walk. But, before they moved in, they thought they would be walking there all the time, so I think it could be a lot of wishful thinking.

[edmonton daily photo]

^ or good marketing.

[Alex.L]

I think once things are more built out it will be easier. Once the transit centre is put in and some of the smaller strips of commercial space, along with the actual central main street of Currents, are built it will feel a lot more connected.

The other big wildcard is 170th/Terwillegar. When and if that ever gets completed, and the choices they make at that time, will definitely affect connectivity. A grade separated crossing should be in the plans if/when 170th/Terwillegar becomes a freeway.

[howie]

It's all a bit 'naked' down there at the moment. Once the area gets a more established look about it, and this takes a bit of time, obviously, the walks will become a bit more amenable as the surroundings add to the interest.

[IanO]

^that's what they had hoped with the developments along 23ave @ rabbit hill rd and even Riverbend square....

[Alex.L]

Originally Posted by IanO

^that's what they had hoped with the developments along 23ave @ rabbit hill rd and even Riverbend square....

Those examples all have the back of the stores facing the residential areas in the neighborhood, creating a barrier. Even the residents of the condos next to the Wok Box/Famoso/Shoppers in Magrath can't easily access those businesses because there is a fence there and their building's entrance faces the other direction.

With Currents there are crosswalks, and the 'inactive' sides of the buildings face away from residential (actually toward the Henday/Terwillegar in most cases).

[ajs]

That's intriguing Ander. Perhaps there were lessons learned from the 23rd ave experiment.
Often times the worst part of "walkable" environments is navigating the mall parking lots once you arrive at your destination.

[EveB]

^ That's the case with even a couple of the transit centres. I haven't been to all the transit centres, but I've had reasons to go to both Westmount Mall and (more frequently) to Mill Woods. Getting to the destination is easy because they are both very well served by transit.

But in the Westmount case, I needed to get to the flu shot clinic. It was later in the evening and the mall was shut. I wound up walking around the entire mall trying to get back to the bus (I took the wrong turn admittedly). There seemed to be no way to go through the mall and the buses were at the back of the mall.

I go to Mill Woods more often but still there seems to be no established route from the transit centre to the main doors. I am most often there for Canadian Tire and walking there is also a "playing in traffic" situation.

Both these destinations should be walkable but they're not really because of the orientation of the stores to the transit stop and (I think) to the residential areas they serve. I've observed this in other areas while I was walking where I would be walking for several blocks of rear loading docks with no way through to the front of the strip.

I too wonder if the Currents might attract more walkers (once the construction site vibe eases) by the simple expedient of facing the stores in a different direction.

Eve

[Alex.L]

Parking lots are definitely the worst part of it all. Stores always seem to want a grand entrance to their parking lot. It's always lined with trees and mulch and there is never anywhere for the pedestrian to walk.

[ajs]

It's always interesting to note the difference between the informal goat-trails people establish (particularly noticeable in wintertime) vs the designated "routes" developers put in place for pedestrians.

[Chmilz]

^The difference being that people take the shortest route (no brainer), and developers make meandering pathways that look pretty but don't accomplish much.

[Alex.L]

Exactly. The sidewalks never take priority.

[Frank Wilson]

Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo

80 years ago Edmonton had an amazing trolley car network...

What a shame we lost that.

I recall an elderly relative mentioning that back in the 60's Edmonton was considering a Subway system akin to the one in Toronto. The cost was stupid cheap even when adjusted for inflation. City council voted it down because of the cost. Think of how something like that could've anchored Downtown.

[IanO]

Streetcar>subway for a city of our size.

[Jimbo]

I can't seem to post photos, but I can post links to photos. These show something I love about Oliver and Westmount - its mature tree canopy:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimmygster/7701105290/

[IanO]

Incredible canopy.

[edmonton daily photo]

Scarey to think we could loose it if we are hit with Dutch elm disease