HUB Mall shootings

[overoceans]

(I can't seem to find a Current Events forum on C2E, so I'm putting this here. If there is one, maybe the mods can move this there, or direct me to any discussion about this crime already underway.)

Horrible. And I'm sure this hits home for a lot of C2Eers, HUB Mall being pretty much a second home for most university students, whether they live there or not. I'm sure I logged in a lot of transactions at the bank machines in question, or at least ones that were in the same area back in the day.

[IanO]

Incredibly sad. What a senseless act. I hope they find the purp(s) soon.

[Dialog]

Nauseating.

[workworkwork]

Wow - so sorry to hear about such a violent event.

[Alex.L]

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...020/story.html

EDMONTON - Police have released a photo of a “person of interest” in an overnight robbery attempt that saw three armoured truck personnel killed and a fourth critically injured at the University of Alberta’s HUB Mall.

Travis Brandon Baumgartner, 21, is believed to be one of several employees of G4S Cash Solutions Canada who was at the HUB Thursday night. He is believed to be in a dark blue Ford F-150 pick-up truck with AB plate ZRE 724.

[AShetsen]

Boomtime Edmonton is never a pleasant place. Go back thirty years and this sort of thing happened every quarter.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...658/story.html

[moahunter]

Very sad, a horrible ruthless thing. Strange to me there were no security cameras, doesn't make sense in this day and age.

^ I wouldn't call early 80's boomtime, and I don't define whether a place is pleasent or not by how many robberies happen.

[AShetsen]

You obviously weren't here in 1981-82, were you. It was the last two crazy years of the oil boom, which ended in the bust of 1983.

[moahunter]

^I stand corrected then, I still don't see the correlation though. Why would high oil prices make more people want to comitt crime (aside from siphon for gasoline?). I would have expected more crime when the bust happened and people who travelled to Alberta started getting laid off from work. While things are good now, I wouldn't really call it a boom. So what does this have to do with the HUB shootings, or how desirable Edmonton is?

[The_Cat]

I have always thought of the U of A as a safe campus. *My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of these victims.

[lat]

This could have happened anywhere. Nothing really directly related to the UofA, it just happened to occur on campus...

[overoceans]

Looks like the manhunt is zeroing in on Sherwood Park.

[jdk13]

this isn't senseless at all, it was a planned robbery for a large cash score.

the media will have a field day with the suspect's facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/Travdaddy

gears of war xbox game banner and the profile pic...

[IanO]

'this isn't senseless at all, it was a planned robbery for a large cash score.'

Senseless

[lobbdogg]

One would have to think, if this was a planned robbery, it wasn't a very good plan to not be identified as a suspect...or sorry "person of interest". Unless he knows he can escape, and never be found.

It is sad to think that the people killed, were just doing their job, and having one of your own allegedly pull the trigger.

Terrible tragedy over probably a small sum of cash.

[Paul Turnbull]

It has more the feel of robbery gone wrong. I wonder if he was planning on leaving them tied up inside while he made a getaway.

<sigh>

[Paul Turnbull]

Edmonton Journal has posted a breakdown of the known timeline

[Gord Lacey]

How much could he have gotten away with? A few hundred thousand? Less than $500,000. Whatever the amount, not enough for 3 people to lose their lives.

[moahunter]

^this is why IMO, a bank robbery is way worse than a fraud, even though the amounts are less. With a fraud, sure, someone can be financially devestated. But to have a gun put in your face, or to lose a loved one from an accident that happens during such an event, that's truely terrible.

[Paul Turnbull]

Originally Posted by Gord Lacey

How much could he have gotten away with? A few hundred thousand? Less than $500,000. Whatever the amount, not enough for 3 people to lose their lives.

I'm not sure there's any amount for that. :/

In and oddly related post ArsTechnica had this today:

Economists demonstrate exactly why bank robbery is a bad idea

[24karat]

Baumgartner's life is absolutely worthless now. He's on the run and he'll be found dead or alive. He'll be tried for multiple counts of first degree murder if he's caught.

[jdk13]

interesting that the assumption is he is the perpetrator, what happens if he's found dead in a G4S van?

[Komrade]

Damn. THis is the second one in less than a year.

My thoughts go out to the victims.

We are truly living in the Wild West

[Alex.L]

Originally Posted by jdk13

interesting that the assumption is he is the perpetrator, what happens if he's found dead in a G4S van?

This is what I assume is going to happen, whether it's a G4S van or somewhere else I assume this guy will not be taken alive.

Also worthy to note is that he's still not a 'suspect'. He's a 'person of interest' and everybody is just jumping to conclusions. Mind you, it's a pretty easy conclusion to jump to.

[Paul Turnbull]

Originally Posted by Ander

This is what I assume is going to happen, whether it's a G4S van or somewhere else I assume this guy will not be taken alive.

Also worthy to note is that he's still not a 'suspect'. He's a 'person of interest' and everybody is just jumping to conclusions. Mind you, it's a pretty easy conclusion to jump to.

As of 3:00pm the police have announced they will be laying charges against him and he is now an official suspect. Baumgartner is facing three counts of first degree murder and one count of attempted murder.

[Alex.L]

Looks like I just snuck that post in under the wire. 2:54pm, haha.

Good. Now they just have to find him.

[jstock]

Hope our guys weren't the victims. We use that company too.

[The_Cat]

Baumgartner out in Sherwood Park?

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...821/story.html

[howie]

As someone already mentioned, he could be found dead in the G4S van. Outside of that possibility, and with all the info the police have on the guy, he should be an easy find. Let's just hope he doesn't come out guns a-blazin' and kill or hurt anyone else. It's just a guess, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's a 'suicide by police' case.

[richardW]

terrible tragedy. the national media is going to have a field day with this one...

[overoceans]

Originally Posted by howie

As someone already mentioned, he could be found dead in the G4S van.

Hasn't the van already been found? From the timeline...

"12:36 a.m. — Cameras at the Edmonton Journal’s Eastgate printing plant on 50th Street record video of a blue G4S truck driving past. The truck is later found parked on the road a few blocks away, outside the G4S compound."

Or at least that's what the reporter seems to be implying, by including that detail. Though I guess if that was the van used in the robbery, why would the perpetrator take it back to company headquarters?

I guess I'm sorta confused about the relevance of the van in Eastgate. And does "truck" mean "van"?

[overoceans]

According to speculation elsewhere, he probably went back to headquarters to pick up his car. Makes sense.

[Gord Lacey]

"New licence plate on dark blue '11 F-150 was taken by Baumgartner from mom's car.Now seeking CAA 636"

[ChrisD]

A guy like this will likely want to go down in a blaze of glory or simply surrender and enjoy the limelight for awhile. A truly ridiculous thing to happen.

[North Guy66]

Originally Posted by jdk13

this isn't senseless at all, it was a planned robbery for a large cash score.

the media will have a field day with the suspect's facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/Travdaddy

gears of war xbox game banner and the profile pic...

When you posted the facebook link, Baumgartner had 192 'friends'. Now he has dropped to 183 friends.

[Mla]

Originally Posted by moahunter

Very sad, a horrible ruthless thing. Strange to me there were no security cameras, doesn't make sense in this day and age.

^ I wouldn't call early 80's boomtime, and I don't define whether a place is pleasent or not by how many robberies happen.

Something tells me the University does have cameras. Maybe they weren't pointing in the right direction???

[Paul Turnbull]

Originally Posted by Mla

Something tells me the University does have cameras. Maybe they weren't pointing in the right direction???

The murders occurred inside the locked ATM room. I'm not sure what they have back there. I would think that it does have cameras but then he would have known where they were.

Another oddity is that as a robbery the take would have been quite small. I read a comment from someone who did the same work and they would have less than $5000 for those ATMs.

[North Guy66]

^ I think this is why the psycho chose Hub mall to make the hit.

It was otherwise a routine stop for the company, known as G4S Cash Solutions, on a quiet Edmonton evening. Two trainees were among the team. But so too was another young employee – one who’d soon become the subject of a manhunt.

The team split up, with at least one staying by two vehicles, a large armoured truck and a smaller minivan, and at least three others heading up to the second-floor concourse of HUB mall, a long strip of indoor shops with several floors of dormitories on either side. The bank machine was near a window overlooking the vans.

Moments later, gunfire broke out. Firecrackers, some students thought, but a campus volunteer came across the first bodies in the mall shortly after – two dead, with a third injured and screaming for help. Calls to police began rolling in as students took photos from their dormitory rooms.

Outside, lying face-down with arms and legs neatly together, was another guard, fatally shot next to the minivan. With no security cameras, a quick exit path and the cover of darkness, it was what one source called a “perfect kill zone.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle4297565/

[Paul Turnbull]

The reference to no security cameras is for where the van was parked. It's not clear whether or not there were cameras in the mall or in the ATM back room.

[jadzia2000]

Originally Posted by ChrisD

A guy like this will likely want to go down in a blaze of glory or simply surrender and enjoy the limelight for awhile. A truly ridiculous thing to happen.

I was thinking that, too, Chris.

I doubt this guy will surrender quietly.

Remember, he is armed, and if he's cornered, he may raise his gun and try to shoot his way out in which case the cops will probably gun him down.

[Levko13]

The location where it happened was at the North End of Hub Mall if anyone has knows the buildings its close to the Pedway to Business and the pedway to Humanities and there are at least 3 - 4 ATMs there.

There is a slight complication with having surveillance cameras there because of the residence above with windows that all overlook the center of Hub mall so cameras have to be facing certain directions. There would have been surveillance cameras on the outside of the ATMs and if I know my security well enough there should have been in the cash oom behind the ATMs

As for the amount of cash those ATMs can hold anywhere from 20 - 50k cash each and so you do the math there was a lot of money that he could have gotten anywhere from 50k - 150k

Despite his shady background and oddness on his facebook page and twitter and everything else people have dug up about him he wasn't that smart but had a lot of time to plan for this and executed it well. So taking this all into account he isn't going to be on an international flight, he may have went for the US border. But chances are he's living in Edmonton holed up in a basement or some abandoned building and laying low he will be spray painting his truck and changing his own appearance growing facial hair and possibly dying it. As for other options he may have fled anywhere into the outlying areas drive for an hour out of Edmonton and take some back roads theres not a lot of traffic and there is a lot of wooded areas and other places he could be hiding out in.

[Barry N]

Global news is reporting that he has been caught at the BC / US border.

[jagators63]

he was finally caught at US border.


http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...728/story.html

[Sonic Death Monkey]

So I guess he's not going down in a blaze of glory as some of you predicted. And now I've that Bon Jovi song stuck in my head for the rest of day. Still, interesting that he managed to get all the way to the west coast without getting caught.

[Gord Lacey]

No one ever tries to flee to Alaska, do they?

Very happy they caught him, and that no one else was harmed.

[psiebold1]

City Centre Mall was fun today. Halfway through shopping, the stores shutter and the police enter. . .

[Chmilz]

This guy is the lowest form of puke. Shoots coworkers in the back like a coward. He's obviously also really stupid, thinking he'd just waltz into the US with a big stack of cash and an 100% guarantee they'd link him to the killings.

No amount of justice will do, but hopefully his sentences are consecutive and he never gets to see life outside a prison again.

[cantilever]

So senseless and sad. What could have been so important that he needed the money for? Drug debts? Or maybe just pure greed and psychological issues.

[overoceans]

Originally Posted by cantilever

So senseless and sad. What could have been so important that he needed the money for? Drug debts? Or maybe just pure greed and psychological issues.

Well, if it WAS Baumgartner who did it, he probably had some romantic, b-movie-inspired notion about commiting a daring heist, guns a-blazing, and then fleeing across the border.

I think he's probably a pretty dim bulb. You can't be too swift if you think that the police aren't going to find out what your mother's license plate numbers are, or that it's a good idea to cross the Canada-US border with the same car and plates that you had when you fled the city.

[Gord Lacey]

He didn't even have a passport. Even if they didn't know who he was, or he had a totally different license plate on the vehicle, he was never going to get into the US without a passport.

And $330,000? Man, that's nothing, and certainly not enough to kill 3 people over. I hope he rots in jail for the rest of his life.

[Replacement]

Very upset by this incident but for a number of reasons.

What degree of screening, monitoring, backchecks, and seniority is going on if a 21 year old clown is already given the chance to be a heavily armed "cash solutions" guard. There was a time and place where this nature of position would've required a particular age, seniority, and years of experience in the security profession.
It would also require extensive demonstration of sound mind, lifestyle, finances, and utmost bondability.

This guy probably worked at Mcdonalds as his only other prior employment if that.
But a multinational security firm "that does exhaustive screening and training for 5 days" sees fit to provide random idiots like this with semiautomatic fire arms that they can use as they see fit. Anybody else incenced at the public danger involved in this? Not only did the guy shoot 4 coworkers he plotted to do it in the most heavily populated bank location imaginable.
Next, two relatively unknown rookie "trainees" (plus the 21yr old shooter who'd been with the firm for only 2 months) out of a team of 5 are on this shift. Should that EVER be happening? I imagine with this firm it happens on a regular basis. I wonder what the turnover in this profession is, and how appropriate that is. Ideally one would want stable employees, longterm employees, and established teams that have worked together a bit.

Next, a dimbulb that drives his identified mom's vehicle with identified licence plates makes it all the way to an Abbotsford US border crossing before he's halted but only because he's stupid enough to try to cross a border crossing. The guy made it 1100K from Edmonton with every RCMP, police detachments, and dragnet on the lookout for him. Meanwhile I recall resources like the EPS Police Helicopter busy circling over my Millwoods neighborhood again while this guy escaped. This in an instance where any psychologist, law enforcement personnel, would identify this guy as heavily armed and very dangerous to the public and was easily allowed this much passage due to an unsuccessfully applied dragnet. With this being a high alert situation of a grave magnitude.

So many questions deserve to be asked. I imagine so few will ever get answered or changes made. Welcome to the economic race to the bottom outsourcing folks. A global multinational indiscriminately providing psychopaths with weaponry so they can be armed, locked, and loaded near you for at least 40hrs week. I wonder if they even have to hand in their weapons after shifts. This is the new world security thats given top assignments around the globe. You better like it, they're pretty much in control. Next time theres a G7 summit I'd be more worried about the locked and loaded rather than any organized protesters. I wonder which represents the greater potential "security threat".

My condolences to all the effected and family and friends of the deceased and critically injured. I hope all of them launch a class action suit against the G4 firm that not only allows this to happen but provided the actual arms for the commission of this heinous offense.

[North Guy66]

Originally Posted by Levko13

Despite his shady background and oddness on his facebook page and twitter and everything else people have dug up about him he wasn't that smart but had a lot of time to plan for this and executed it well. So taking this all into account he isn't going to be on an international flight, he may have went for the US border. But chances are he's living in Edmonton holed up in a basement or some abandoned building and laying low he will be spray painting his truck and changing his own appearance growing facial hair and possibly dying it. As for other options he may have fled anywhere into the outlying areas drive for an hour out of Edmonton and take some back roads theres not a lot of traffic and there is a lot of wooded areas and other places he could be hiding out in.

That would be the smart thing for him to do, stay low. I thought maybe Travis had it all planned out and had fake identification at his disposal to help him leave the country.

But now it seems the shootings were spontaneous after he had a big argument with his mother.

[SP59]

Originally Posted by Replacement

Very upset by this incident but for a number of reasons.

What degree of screening, monitoring, backchecks, and seniority is going on if a 21 year old clown is already given the chance to be a heavily armed "cash solutions" guard. There was a time and place where this nature of position would've required a particular age, seniority, and years of experience in the security profession.
It would also require extensive demonstration of sound mind, lifestyle, finances, and utmost bondability.

This guy probably worked at Mcdonalds as his only other prior employment if that.
But a multinational security firm "that does exhaustive screening and training for 5 days" sees fit to provide random idiots like this with semiautomatic fire arms that they can use as they see fit. Anybody else incenced at the public danger involved in this? Not only did the guy shoot 4 coworkers he plotted to do it in the most heavily populated bank location imaginable.
Next, two relatively unknown rookie "trainees" (plus the 21yr old shooter) out of a team of 5 are on this shift. Should that EVER be happening? I imagine with this firm it happens on a regular basis. I wonder what the turnover in this profession is, and how appropriate that is. Ideally one would want stable employees, longterm employees, and established teams that have worked together a bit.

Next, a dimbulb that drives his identified mom's vehicle with identified licence plates makes it all the way to an Abbotsford US border crossing before he's halted but only because he's stupid enough to try to cross a border crossing. The guy made it 1100K from Edmonton with every RCMP, police detachments, and dragnet on the lookout for him. Meanwhile I recall resources like the EPS Police Helicopter busy circling over my Millwoods neighborhood again while this guy escaped. This in an instance where any psychologist, law enforcement personnel, would identify this guy as heavily armed and very dangerous to the public and was easily allowed this much passage due to an unsuccessfully applied dragnet. With this being a high alert situation of a grave magnitude.

So many questions deserve to be asked. I imagine so few will ever get answered or changes made. Welcome to the economic race to the bottom outsourcing folks. A global multinational indiscriminately providing psychopaths with weaponry so they can be armed, locked, and loaded near you for at least 40hrs week. I wonder if they even have to hand in their weapons after shifts. This is the new world security thats givent top assignments around the globe. You better like it, they're pretty much in control.

My condolences to all the effected and family and friends of the deceased and critically injured. I hope all of them launch a class action suit against the G4 firm that not only allows this to happen but provided the actual arms for the commission of this heinous offense.

Good points. All that is missing is a Mc in front of the G4S in the corporate name.

[North Guy66]

Originally Posted by Replacement

Next, a dimbulb that drives his identified mom's vehicle with identified licence plates makes it all the way to an Abbotsford US border crossing before he's halted but only because he's stupid enough to try to cross a border crossing. The guy made it 1100K from Edmonton with every RCMP, police detachments, and dragnet on the lookout for him. Meanwhile I recall resources like the EPS Police Helicopter busy circling over my Millwoods neighborhood again while this guy escaped. This in an instance where any psychologist, law enforcement personnel, would identify this guy as heavily armed and very dangerous to the public and was easily allowed this much passage due to an unsuccessfully applied dragnet. With this being a high alert situation of a grave magnitude.

So many questions deserve to be asked. I imagine so few will ever get answered or changes made. Welcome to the economic race to the bottom outsourcing folks.

Great post! According to the timeline the G4S amoured vehicle, found abandoned near the Edmonton Sun production plant, was not discovered until 10am Friday morning. That means it was a full 10 hours before they can connect the armoured car with the Hub shootings.

You'll think G4S would invest in some GPS for their vehicles.

[Replacement]

Originally Posted by SP59

[Good points. All that is missing is a Mc in front of the G4S in the corporate name.

Exactly. Its ironic in the new world order this global McSecurity firm gets the G7 contracts to provide security for the National McEconomic leaders of the world.

This isn't the race to the bottom anymore, we've definitely arrived.

Just as an aside Baumgartner identified himself as a G4S staffer on his social media profiles that could be widely accessed. He identified himself as the guy that puts all that money in bank machines using his full name. That in itself would be a breach that would cause me to be out of a job first thing Monday morning.

Many of the people visiting his profiles were his fellow staffers. Nobody outed him on it or called him on it. One would even question whether theres any rules about identifying your nature of security employment online. Think about the ramifications of some of that. I'm scared at the thought of how serious breaches like this could have untold ramification.

Its great though that G4S are such global experts on security and safety though. We should all sleep much better at night.

[Replacement]

Originally Posted by North Guy66

Great post! According to the timeline the G4S amoured vehicle, found abandoned near the Edmonton Sun production plant, was not discovered until 10am Friday morning. That means it was a full 10 hours before they can connect the armoured car with the Hub shootings.

You'll think G4S would invest in some GPS for their vehicles.

Additionally a minimal requirement for such an operation would be communication with dispatch after each cash pick up/delivery and real time communication at all times.
Also that there be audio/video hookup and monitoring with all the trucks. It should take seconds for G4S to know something went wrong and a protocal for immediately contacting authorities. Half my friends and neighbors have better apparent security monitoring for their homes..

Finally judging from timeline this guy was allowed all the way to the border crossing and presumably on 1100K of main highways. Think about that next time the US accuses Canada of lax security. Maybe we should call G4S "McSolutions" to get on it.

[deedub35]

I don't want to start a death penalty debate but I would really like to see this guy get fried as this imo being such a cold blooded heinous crime. And keep the sponge dry as in Green Mile stylz.

[lat]

Originally Posted by deedub35

I don't want to start a death penalty debate but I would really like to see this guy get fried as this imo being such a cold blooded heinous crime. And keep the sponge dry as in Green Mile stylz.

That's too good for him, keep him locked up for his life, let the guards mete out justice on an ongoing basis...

[Kitlope]

Next, two relatively unknown rookie "trainees" (plus the 21yr old shooter who'd been with the firm for only 2 months) out of a team of 5 are on this shift. Should that EVER be happening? I imagine with this firm it happens on a regular basis. I wonder what the turnover in this profession is, and how appropriate that is. Ideally one would want stable employees, longterm employees, and established teams that have worked together a bit.

I'm gonna guess the turnover rate is very high. Get used to it for many positions that were once a decent paying job. These aren't career's anymore - they're just glorified Mcjobs paying a bit more than minimum wage. Canada Post is next - how are you gonna feel when someone making min wage that doesn't give a rat's *** about his job is sorting/delivering your personal mail? People think the service sucks now and the union members making a whopping $24.50/hr are overpaid? They're in for a very rude awakening when Canada Post starts paying everyone a buck more than min wage and employee's just simply don't give a crap anymore.

The worst part is we're doing it to ourselves. As long as somebody makes more money than somebody else, according to the person making less, they are overpaid. That's the simple psychology behind it.

Anyhoo, very very glad they got him. We're gonna start seeing a lot more of this "online attention whore" as social media takes off... people living fantasies they have created online about themselves. In the real world they are nothing's but online they can dress themselves up however they please. Look no further than Mark Twitchell, Luka Magnotta and now Baumgartner (some will argue Baumgartner wasn't an online phoney like these others but his social media messages/profiles reeks of extreme narcissism). I believe this is only the beginning as we raise an online generation that is now seeing adulthood.

[jagators63]

my advice for everyone .....be happy the pay you get. so why worry about money ??? start with minimum wage then work on your way up.

[psiebold1]

Originally Posted by jagators63

my advice for everyone .....be happy the pay you get. so why worry about money ??? start with minimum wage then work on your way up.

Um no, the wages you pay to your employees is an internal control. If the employees don't value the work and what they work with has significant risk, that risk not only falls on the employee but also the employer. If these jobs pay a dollar or two above minimum wage, you run into these risks as we have seen here.

[jagators63]

Originally Posted by psiebold1

Um no, the wages you pay to your employees is an internal control. If the employees don't value the work and what they work with has significant risk, that risk not only falls on the employee but also the employer. If these jobs pay a dollar or two above minimum wage, you run into these risks as we have seen here.

I work full time job and pay $ 11.50 an hour and lives on one bedroom apt and I got everything here with me, I live just fine. there is no risk for me.

[psiebold1]

How much risk is there with the company you work with?

[Replacement]

Originally Posted by Kitlope

I'm gonna guess the turnover rate is very high. Get used to it for many positions that were once a decent paying job. These aren't career's anymore - they're just glorified Mcjobs paying a bit more than minimum wage. Canada Post is next - how are you gonna feel when someone making min wage that doesn't give a rat's *** about his job is sorting/delivering your personal mail? People think the service sucks now and the union members making a whopping $24.50/hr are overpaid? They're in for a very rude awakening when Canada Post starts paying everyone a buck more than min wage and employee's just simply don't give a crap anymore.

The worst part is we're doing it to ourselves. As long as somebody makes more money than somebody else, according to the person making less, they are overpaid. That's the simple psychology behind it.

Anyhoo, very very glad they got him. We're gonna start seeing a lot more of this "online attention whore" as social media takes off... people living fantasies they have created online about themselves. In the real world they are nothing's but online they can dress themselves up however they please. Look no further than Mark Twitchell, Luka Magnotta and now Baumgartner (some will argue Baumgartner wasn't an online phoney like these others but his social media messages/profiles reeks of extreme narcissism). I believe this is only the beginning as we raise an online generation that is now seeing adulthood.

You're preaching to the converted here. I have no problem with reasonably important postings paying reasonable wage. Damn straight I want people carrying firearms in their professional position to be well paid in any capacity thereby increasing moral, longevity, safety, etc. I detest these global outsourcing firms and the race to the bottom economics that spawned the cutting of a dollar here, a dollar there, in the name of cost efficiency..320K and 3 lives lost. I wonder how well thats working..

The only thing that bugs me is when somebody like a Safeway employee used to make twice as much as any similar role just on the basis of being in a powerful union. Never really thought grocery store employees should be that highly paid. But for important jobs I have no difficulty with higher pay, higher cost.

[Mla]

Originally Posted by jagators63

my advice for everyone .....be happy the pay you get. so why worry about money ??? start with minimum wage then work on your way up.

Unfortunately not everybody likes to earn their money. Some people will take advantage of their power and/ or a situation to make "easy money." These people are usually referred to as criminals.

On a side note, I wonder if he got away with any more money and just buried it somewhere along with his gun and vest? Then when he gets out in probably less than 25 years he will have some money stashed away...

[psiebold1]

Originally Posted by Mla

Unfortunately not everybody likes to earn their money. Some people will take advantage of their power and/ or a situation to make "easy money." These people are usually referred to as criminals.

On a side note, I wonder if he got away with any more money and just buried it somewhere along with his gun and vest? Then when he gets out in probably less than 25 years he will have some money stashed away...

Talking with the coworkers who have worked in banks and the sort, 300 000 dollars sounds about right for the stash in an armoured car, especially if they have dropped off a load or two.

[Replacement]

So just as a further on the 5 person G4S crew they had two trainees, one person with the company for 2mnths(shooter) and one person with the company for 3months. Its not been disclosed how long the other person had worked for the company or how long in this capacity.

So in otherwords looking like a complete turnstile occupation and diametrically different from what anybody would expect would be a requirement of this bondable armed security nature. Again welcome to global outsourcing and lower paid employees, cutting of costs, no seniority obtained, no stable stafing obtained, and unstable service delivery.

Ironically G4S is hired to provide security. In this case "Cash Solution" security.

Inexplicably in this instance their "Cash solution" provided the means, recruitment, for the actual robbery(320K) and the commission of multiple homicide requiring (and that will further require) thousands of man hours in investigation, trial, sentencing, and in millions of dollars of public purse used up extraditing this tragic event. (not even going into the cost of a lifetime incarceration) Which G4S should be held responsible for but won't be. On any counts I imagine.

Meanwhile they pay Armored car guards and drivers payscales of between $11.58-24.94/hour, you have to work for the company 10yrs to get the paltry 3wks holiday increment, and they nickle and dime employees to that tune resulting in the hardly surprising revolving door that it is. This is what they pay in this competitive provincial jurisdiction according to source. People can correct me if I'm wrong. Theres places in this province where a guy makes more at the real McJob.

In other news G4S is providing the security for the upcoming London Olympics. Think about that a moment. I'd be ripping up my plane tickets right about now if I had any rather than trusting this apparent incompetence.

World security on a race to the bottom budget. Lord help us and cross your fingers.

Again condolences to all family and friends of the injured and deceased. What an entirely avoidable tragedy.

A little bit more on what kind of global firm we're talking about here:

http://notog4s.blogspot.ca/

Another UK view on this UK company:

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...o-7831790.html

[North Guy66]

As expected G4S will review their policies and procedures:

Security company probing Edmonton shooting with eye on improved safety

“In addition to the police investigation, we have flown out our own security experts as part of G4S internal investigation,” said Mr. Tallion.

“This is standard practice for any major incident. We do all review aspects to determine if there’s lessons to be learned and if there is, we will implement these changes as we go forward.”

Mr. Tallion did not take questions about what issues internal auditors would address or what recommendations could result in light of the attack, which occurred while G4S workers were refilling bank machines just after midnight Friday morning during a stop on the main university campus.

However, the union that represents the G4S security guards, as well as others in the industry in Alberta, suggested that more in-depth psychological analysis might be necessary to help weed out potentially dangerous employees.

Richard Eichel, the Calgary-based secretary, treasurer and principal officer for Teamsters Local 362, which represents the G4S workers across the Prairies, said the union has been fielding calls from across the country about how the workplace can be made safer.

“Do you do more psychological testing?” he said. “How much and how far do you go? Who knows.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle4327230/

[North Guy66]

Eerily ironic this story was published 2 days before the Hub shootings.

Discount cash pickup service deemed unsafe

Using a regular van and just one driver, the Express Deposit service that the security firm G4S unveiled six years ago tapped into a new market of Canadian small businesses that couldn't afford to have regular two- or three-guard armoured trucks transport their receipts.

However, a federal tribunal has found that the service is potentially so dangerous for its solo drivers that the firm has been ordered to modify vehicles and procedures.

The threat of robbery is such that "it does not constitute a normal condition of employment," the Occupational Health and Safety Tribunal Canada said in its ruling issued in April.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...article583127/

[Cal76]

So sad but at least the perp has been caught now.
I work in the Uof A and was having lunch with a friend in HUB just a few hours before!
Still couldn't believe it could have happened there- today I went back to HUB and the memorials were so touching. RIP the innocent victimes ( no one deserves to die doing their job).

On a slightly different note, the campus is really quite safe; such an event (co-worker going crazy) could have happened just anywhere.

[Replacement]

Paula Simons nails G4S on their disgraceful plea to Edmontonians to donate for the victims and families of the shooting tragedy. The article also contains mention of several other atrocities the company has been involved in and which is just scratching the surface. This firm has been involved in hundreds of incidents and human rights atrocities.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...805/story.html

One would think the second largest company on Earth that made 12Billion last year could look after their own properly.

People should be absolutely enraged with this global firm. Contact your MP, MLA, etc and voice your concerns about this outrage. Time for countries to just say no to allowing firms like this to do bring their deplorable business here.

[Marcel Petrin]

Originally Posted by Replacement

that made 12Billion

Minor quibble, but that's revenue, not earnings, which were actually 317 million.

[Replacement]

Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin

Minor quibble, but that's revenue, not earnings, which were actually 317 million.

Yep.

I am aware of that, its mentioned directly in the article. Which is why I stated it the way I did.

The Revenue is presently a more telling picture of the global might of this company. Its expansionist globetrotting framework has for the time being limited earnings as massive reinvestment has occurred. The bottom line for this company looks great. If one only looks at the dollars and not the track record.

[Paul Turnbull]

Wow. The comment thread on Simon's article is stunning. It seems very odd for people to be drawing ranks around G4S when there are so many questions about how this situation arose.

A minor quibble and it's with the article itself, G4S is not the world's second largest employer, they're not even in the top ten.

Who are the world's biggest employers?