108 Street and Jasper Avenue

[GrahamEDM]

Does anyone know what they are building on the roof of Money Mart at 108 and Jasper?
It appears to be the frame for a large sign or billboard....
I just noticed it today as I was walking to a meeting.

In a dream world, it would be for a project that will mean the demise of Oil City and Vinyl.

[Montrosian]

Originally Posted by GrahamEDM

Does anyone know what they are building on the roof of Money Mart at 108 and Jasper?
It appears to be the frame for a large sign or billboard....
I just noticed it today as I was walking to a meeting.

In a dream world, it would be for a project that will mean the demise of Oil City and Vinyl.

Probably a giant LED screen with Oil City Roadhouse advertisement on it

[IanO]

Roof off premise is discretionary. God I hope not

[GrahamEDM]

If it has anything to do with Oil City, I am officially packing up and leaving town...

[niubi]

I saw a few Pattison Outdoor Advertising vans in the adjacent parking lot while said frame was being installed, so I believe it would safe to assume that a (digital?) billboard is being installed there.

[IanO]

It would be within 100 m of the 10'x20' sign on the insurance building west of the Public House, another violation of signs if so.

[Komrade]

Whats with the Oil City hate?

[etownboarder]

Originally Posted by Komrade

Whats with the Oil City hate?

You really have to ask?

It's a dump... With owners who care about little else than milking their drunken teenage patrons for every last nickel and dime without investing any of the profits into improving their service, the building or anything else for that matter. Yes, they run a business and they can do what they like with their profits, but I would like to think I would run my business differently.

[ChrisD]

And why would a billboard be 'awful'?? If its like the one on top of the Garneau Theatre then I have no issues.

[EveB]

Because new billboards are these giant over-bright digital things which change pictures every few minutes. Being sponsored by Oil City, it is moreover almost guaranteed to be unspeakably vulgar. Of course, one more picture of a bunch of hairy guys with slogans peeled off into their hides surrounded by idiot women doesn't make that much difference.

Eve

[Komrade]

Originally Posted by etownboarder

You really have to ask?

It's a dump....

I would argue that the Oil City group has done more to help and improve Edmonton and Downtown as a whole than any of you internet activists... Just saying

[Medwards]

I would strongly disagree with your assertion.... Just saying.

There's many here that do more than just post on a website

Now perhaps you could explain what oil city has done for downtown? Cause I'm not buying it

[IanO]

^^I will take that wager, meet you to discuss and accept $100 from you on behalf of us 'internet activists'.

[AAAAE]

Are you aware that Oil City Group doesn't even own Oil City anymore!!?

People sure like to lay blame while sitting on their as* on the computer.

I for one quite like digital billboards as it gives a big city feel

[Montrosian]

Originally Posted by AAAAE

Are you aware that Oil City Group doesn't even own Oil City anymore!!?

People sure like to lay blame while sitting on their as* on the computer.

I for one quite like digital billboards as it gives a big city feel

Yes this is true. I remember reading an article in the paper where Oil City Hospitality Group was talking about refocusing their business on pub style establishments rather than clubs.

[Komrade]

Originally Posted by AAAAE

Are you aware that Oil City Group doesn't even own Oil City anymore!!?

I was not aware of this

I was talking about Oil City Group as a whole. My apologies that I didnt know Oil City was sold.

I dont like bars/clubs/pubs. Only in them when I am performing. But they are a huge piece of the puzzle when it comes to building a happening, active downtown. And Oil City Group was the one to step up to the plate to make it happen

[AShetsen]

Originally Posted by AAAAE

I for one quite like digital billboards as it gives a big city feel

Big cities without big crowds under the big digital billboards aren't big cities at all.

[AAAAE]

Very true Ashetsen

[Medwards]

There's usually a pretty big crowd on the sidewalk by oil city abaka...

[Edmcowboy11]

Well I may not be a big fan of OCR but I think that the bar there is a whole lot better than the empty building that stood there for so very long.

[Municipal Man of Mystery]

The sign was refused by the DO, then appealed and approved at SDAB. See SDAB-D-11-285, pages 16 to 24, here: http://www.edmonton.ca/city_governme...2011DecHR3.doc

Who knows, it might end up being nice, and add a bit of a big-city feel to that part of Jasper Ave.

[etownboarder]

Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11

Well I may not be a big fan of OCR but I think that the bar there is a whole lot better than the empty building that stood there for so very long.

You're right, but times have changed... Downtown isn't an empty hole any longer. It wouldn't stay empty long. The building would be filled or torn down and replaced by some new development.

[Edmcowboy11]

And as time progresses things will change further downtown. OCR could last for a long time or it could eventually disappear as many many bars do in this city. Anyways until a whole lot more empty lots start filling up with new buildings I'm not going to complain too much about one business.

[IanO]

Interestingly enough, there is indeed an off-premise freestanding sign within 100m. It is on the Peace Hills Building facing west and always has the lottery on it. It is very close to 100m, but appears to be slightly less. They claim there is no sign within 100m.

Technically, if you wanted to, you could go have this new sign removed.

[ScottieA]

Is it even permanent though? They haven't mounted anything resembling a sign to it, and it is not anchored into the roof. It's simply sitting on a large base made from I-beams. My office looks out over onto this, so I can see exactly what they've done.

[IanO]

Doesnt matter.

[ScottieA]

Oh trust me, I want to see that godawful thing go too. I was just mentioning that it may not be permanent. That block is starting to look terrible again now that they tore the neighbouring building out and left it as a dirt lot beside the black Oil City/Vinyl building. This thing doesn't help.

[GrahamEDM]

I am still holding out hope that it is a "Coming Soon" sign for a future development on that block...

[Edmcowboy11]

How about "Coming Soon, Encore"?

[Keats82]

Oh please, please, pleeeeease! That would make my day.

[ScottieA]

Mine too. I would love nothing more than to watch something similar to the Ultima go up across from my office.

[kcantor]

it is an illuminated television billboard. right now it's just rotating life style images of tigers and dogs and balloons but i would guess that the ads are coming...

hard to imagine something more irritating to anyone who's office or bedroom window will get to suffer through the constant distraction of moving/changing images. i always thought edmonton motors was extremely disrespective in that regard but this could well be worse if the nait souch campus one or those on the finesse site are any indication...

[ScottieA]

Originally Posted by IanO

Interestingly enough, there is indeed an off-premise freestanding sign within 100m. It is on the Peace Hills Building facing west and always has the lottery on it. It is very close to 100m, but appears to be slightly less. They claim there is no sign within 100m.

Technically, if you wanted to, you could go have this new sign removed.

Would the Sirius sign hanging from the side of Peace Hills, above the CBS billboard, also fall under this rule?

Originally Posted by kcantor

it is an illuminated television billboard. right now it's just rotating life style images of tigers and dogs and balloons but i would guess that the ads are coming...

Anyone willing to make the complaint now? It looks tacky as hell sitting on top of the Money Mart the way it is. And probably not the kind of thing that the City and Province had in mind being alongside Capital Boulevard...

[IanO]

'Would the Sirius sign hanging from the side of Peace Hills, above the CBS billboard, also fall under this rule?'

Freestanding/facia off-premise sign rules are pretty clear, but enforcement is often the issue.

[ScottieA]

The billboard is now fully functional...



My cameraphone made the lines appear in the picture, it indeed is working at 100%.

[IanO]

Some food for thought...

Mayfair North

#3Major Digital Signs, Minor Digital On-premises Signs, Minor Digital Off-premises Signs, and Minor Digital On-premises Off-premises Signs shall be located or constructed such that Sign illumination shall not project onto any surrounding residential premises, shall not face an abutting or adjacent Residential Use Class, shall not face an abutting or adjacent Residential-Related Use Class, and shall not face the Extended Medical Treatment Services Use Class to the satisfaction of the Development Officer.

Hello Capital BLVD?

#7For all Sign Applications for Major Digital Sign, Minor Digital On-premises Signs, Minor Digital Off-premises Signs, and Minor Digital On-premises Off-premises Signs, the Development Officer shall review the application in context with the surrounding development, such as (but not limited to): the architectural theme of the area; any historic designations; the requirements of any Statutory Plan; any streetscape improvements; proximity to residential development; driver decision points; and traffic conflict points. The Development Officer may require application revisions to mitigate the impact of a proposed Sign, and may refuse a permit that adversely impacts the built environment.

http://webdocs.edmonton.ca/zoningbyl...egulations.htm

There is a fascia off premise sign (CBS Outdoor - Lotto) darn near the 100m rule.

59F - must be more than 100m separation for 20m^2. It looks like it is a 12x20' (24m^2)
http://webdocs.edmonton.ca/zoningbyl...hedule_59F.htm

[Channing]

I hate these signs. I hated this one when it came to EDC.

[micmac]

You can thank SDAB for this. Original Development Permit was refused by the DO but the SDAB overturned that decision.

[darkmagnoblade]

I saw that sign this afternoon and it looks so out of place and what was that building they tore out between the money mart and OCR?

[ChrisD]

Originally Posted by micmac

You can thank SDAB for this. Original Development Permit was refused by the DO but the SDAB overturned that decision.

Then I guess a democratic decision has been made. I don't get what all the fuss is over this sign. If anything, we should be more pi$sed about those temporary signs that dot every corner of this town. Now those signs are pathetic.

[IanO]

DECISION:
that the appeal be ALLOWED and the DEVELOPMENT GRANTED and the deficiency of 34.65 metres in the minimum required separation distance between any other Off-premises sign be permitted, subject to the following conditions:

1. This approval is for a one-sided Off-premises Roof Sign (Digital Static Sign – one sided facing west);
2. that the frequency of change in the static digital display cannot be less than 6 seconds with a 2 second transition (hold time);
3. that each static digital display shall contain a single advertising copy and that split screen advertising is not permitted;
4. the Off-premises Roof Sign is approved for five years and will expire on December 22, 2016;
5. the Sign shall not be animated;
6. due to its position, shape, colour, format or illumination, the proposed Off-premises Roof Sign shall not obstruct the view of, or be confused with an official traffic sign, signal or device, as determined by the Development Officer in consultation with the City Engineer;
7. the proposed Off-premises Roof Sign shall not display lights resembling the flashing lights usually associated with danger or those used by police, fire, ambulance and other emergency vehicles;
8. the proposed Off-premises Roof Sign shall not operate or employ any stereo option or motion picture projection, or use holography;
9. the brightness of the proposed Off-premises Roof Sign shall be adjustable and controlled relative to ambient light, to the satisfaction of the Transportation Department;
10. that should at any time the Transportation Department determine that the sign face contributes to safety concerns, the owner/applicant must immediately address the safety concerns identified by removing the sign, de-energizing the sign, changing the message conveyed on the sign, and/or addressing the concern in another manner acceptable to the Transportation Department;

SDAB-D-11-285 8 December 23, 2011

DECISION (CONTINUED):

11. that the owner/applicant must provide a written statement of the actions taken to mitigate a safety concern identified by the Transportation Department within 30 days of the notification of the concern. Failure to provide corrective action will result in the requirement to immediately remove or de-energize the sign;
12. the combined Height of the Off-premises Roof Sign and building shall not exceed the Height of the Zone.

REASONS FOR DECISION:

The Board finds the following:

1. Based on the evidence provided, the proposed sign is a Off-premises Roof Sign pursuant to Section 7.9(11) of the Edmonton Zoning Bylaw.
2. Off-premises Roof Signs are a Discretionary Use in the JAMSC Jasper Avenue Main Street Commercial Zone.
3. Based on the evidence provided, the proposed Sign will contain static digital copy and will not contain any animation.
4. The Board accepts the case made by the Appellant that Section 7.9(11) of the Edmonton Zoning Bylaw does not prohibit the inclusion of digital copy on Off-premises Roof Signs.
5. There is only one other Freestanding Off-premises Sign located within the minimum required 100 metre separation distance and the owner of the property on which that sign is located has provided a letter of support for the proposed Off-premises Roof Sign.
6. Based on the evidence submitted, Section 59F.3(2)(i) of the Edmonton Zoning Bylaw will not remove any of the rights of the owner of the closest Off-premises Freestanding Sign.
7. The conditions imposed by the Board will mitigate any adverse impact on the safety of pedestrians and vehicles in the area.
8. The proposed Off-premises Roof Sign is compatible with the architectural character of the building, the Capital City Downtown Plan and the streetscape improvements occurring on Jasper Avenue.
9. The proposed development complies with all of the development regulations for an Off-premises Roof Sign except for the minimum separation distance requirement for which a variance has been granted.
10. There were no letters of objection received and no one appeared in opposition to the proposed development.
11. Based on the above, it is the opinion of the Board, that the proposed development would not unduly interfere with the amenities of the neighbourhood, or materially interfere with or affect the use, enjoyment or value of neighbouring parcels of land.”

[Channing]

Originally Posted by IanO

8. The proposed Off-premises Roof Sign is compatible with the architectural character of the building, the Capital City Downtown Plan and the streetscape improvements occurring on Jasper Avenue.

Disagree with the bold part. It's compatible with the architectural character of the building. Which has none. And need to be removed.

[Keats82]

^ Agree in full.

On a positive note, one could easily lob things at it...

[Perspective]

Originally Posted by IanO

8. The proposed Off-premises Roof Sign is compatible with the architectural character of the building, the Capital City Downtown Plan and the streetscape improvements occurring on Jasper Avenue.

this sign certainly adds a significant amount of class and helps further the downtown's goal of looking like calgary trail.

[ChrisD]

^Oh please...

[Municipal Man of Mystery]

I've been by this sign several times now at both day and night, and honestly, it's not that bad. Adds some colour at least. When you think about great cities around the world, like New York, London, and Tokyo, they all have bright advertising signs, too. I'm not saying this makes Jasper and 108 look like Times Square now, but just saying that a digital advertising sign itself isn't the worst thing that could (and does) happen on that corner.

[Edmcowboy11]

So I don't know exactly where this picture should be posted but this thread seems to be as good as any other on for it. Here is a shot of the property between the former Oil City building and the building on the corner. I'm glad to see that at least it's not being left as just another empty gravel lot.

[darkmagnoblade]

what building used to be there and why was it taken down?

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Google Street View is your best friend in the whole world!
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=...5,,0,0.38&z=15

[Municipal Man of Mystery]

But why was it taken down? Anyone know yet?

[etownboarder]

Originally Posted by Municipal Man of Mystery

But why was it taken down? Anyone know yet?

It was a delapitated dump on a block that will eventually be completely leveled. I guess someone got an early start?

[Municipal Man of Mystery]

Lots of other dilapidated dumps remain standing throughout the city for years though. Fingers crossed that something nice will one day grace this block, but I'm guessing it will be at least a few years coming seeing as the new digital sign was just put up (unless they're going to redevelop everything but the Money Mart).

[IanO]

Originally Posted by Municipal Man of Mystery

But why was it taken down? Anyone know yet?

Taxation and condition likely. Long term, Maclab has plans east and John Day to the West.

[darkmagnoblade]

That used to be the old fields store or at least part of it correct? and the next question is why didnt they just build something new there? dont get me wrong i like a bit of parkland or green space in a sea of concrete but are we not try to rebuild downtown from the crap hole that it once was?

[EveB]

Perhaps the MoneyMart and the Donair place hold leases that may be coming up? In that case, I can see them clearing the space and waiting for the vacancy and building something more substantial on that corner.

Eve

[OilTastic/BigCityDude]

Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey

Google Street View is your best friend in the whole world!
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=...5,,0,0.38&z=15

^i used to work there in 1979 when it was Safeco!!

[KenL2]

Originally Posted by OilTastic/BigCityDude

^i used to work there in 1979 when it was Safeco!!

Wow your old!! And I can say that I remember it too!!! and the one on the 142Street traffic circle Oi

[Sonic Death Monkey]

I thought Saveco was where Oil City is now?
It was the white building next to it that was demolished, in case there's any confusion.

[OilTastic/BigCityDude]

the downtown Safeco was in the smaller white building beside Oil City. and i as well remember the 142nd st. Safeco !

[Blueline]

At one point saveco occupied both floor areas as well as having offices upstairs

[OilTastic/BigCityDude]

^yup, when i worked there as a teen in 1979, they occupied the entire building, and there was a little window in the upstairs office that the woman working there could peek out of.

[Picture Me Rollin']

Oil City rebranding

[ChrisD]

^Oil City doesn't exist. This is an entirely new venue backed by a new ownership group.

[CalanTheHobbs]

^I doubt it will be any different though.

[IanO]

Originally Posted by ChrisD

^Oil City doesn't exist. This is an entirely new venue backed by a new ownership group.

Correct. 2 Eleven

[Medwards]

Ok, sure, different ownership group, going for the same idea as Oil City, in the same location.

End result? The same thing over again.

My only hope is that the ownership group has a little more respect for its neighbours and neighbourhood. Would be great if they became the block captain for the Capital City Cleanup for their portion of downtown.

[IanO]

Let's keep an eye on this and by all means shoot me an email for I can approach this from a DECL perspective. I also know one of the people involved with that group.

[Medwards]

A business shouldn't need to be told to be a good corporate neighbour. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on this when I do pass by... I don't go by this location as much as I used to though...

[IanO]

^agreed, but guns dont kill people, people kill people. Customers need some onus and should have some F&($&%@#(&$ respect.

[Medwards]

Agreed, but why let those that are being disrespectful back in to the club? Too often, management/security turns a blind eye while these 'customer' puke, and chuck garbage and cigarette butts where-ever, monents before going back into the club.

Yes, a business can only go so far, and only encourage so much.... but if we simply just turn a blind eye, it's almost like the business is saying "hey, these practices are acceptable, the norm, you don't give a f/uck about whats around you, and neither do we"

[IanO]

yup, bylaw needs to be all over them initially.... then regularly.

[Medwards]

It shouldn't even take bylaw... A good corporate citizen should know how to be a good corporate citizen. This isn't rocket science.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by GrahamEDM

Does anyone know what they are building on the roof of Money Mart at 108 and Jasper?
It appears to be the frame for a large sign or billboard....
I just noticed it today as I was walking to a meeting.

In a dream world, it would be for a project that will mean the demise of Oil City and Vinyl.

just to get this thread back on topic (dream world comment at the end of the op notwithstanding), i had the pleasure of spending some time in a boardroom on the southeast corner of the professional building and drive through this intersection regularly...

and as far as i'm concerned the answer to the question about whether this sign would be distracting or not is yes, it is as distracting to its neighbors as some - including me - feared. and we are still not yet at the point where we are at minimum daylight/maximum distruption. it might not be quite as jarring perhaps as the edmonton motors sign is to its neighbors but it's certainly not an attractive addition to living or working or being at that corner...

[Keats82]

As an additional FYI re: Knoxville's - Walked past today and saw they have added old-timey frames to the one-way windows facing Jasper - far better than the old vinyl on Oil City...

[ChrisD]

Originally Posted by Medwards

It shouldn't even take bylaw... A good corporate citizen should know how to be a good corporate citizen. This isn't rocket science.

Yes, it requires bylaws. Unfortunately, many people need them in order to keep things in line.

[IanO]

'and as far as i'm concerned the answer to the question about whether this sign would be distracting or not is yes, it is as distracting to its neighbors as some - including me - feared. and we are still not yet at the point where we are at minimum daylight/maximum distruption. it might not be quite as jarring perhaps as the edmonton motors sign is to its neighbors but it's certainly not an attractive addition to living or working or being at that corner...'

Agreed Ken, but keep in mind that it has to obey the City's new sign regulations for major digital.

The intensity of exposed bulbs on a Sign, excluding Digital Signs, shall not exceed 1100 lumens.

ambient light monitors shall automatically adjust the brightness level of the Copy Area based on ambient light conditions. Brightness levels shall not exceed 0.3 footcandles above ambient light conditions when measured from the Sign face at its maximum brightness, between sunset and sunrise, at those times determined by the Sunrise / Sunset calculator from the National Research Council of Canada;

Brightness level of the Sign shall not exceed 400 nits when measured from the sign face at its maximum brightness, between sunset and sunrise, at those times determined by the Sunrise/Sunset calculator from the national research Council of Canada; and

Signs abutting or adjacent to Natural Areas or Public Parks shall be de-energized daily between 12:00 AM - 5:00 AM.




http://webdocs.edmonton.ca/zoningbyl...egulations.htm