Question for A Lawyer regarding "Call Backs"

[Happy In Ottewell]

I have been posting on Edmonton Divorce Lawyers in this forum for quite some time and realize that there may be lawyers who have responded. I have a very frustrating issue regarding the length of time a lawyer takes to respond to calls and emails.

The issue I'm having is with my lawyer who I hired several months ago. She readily offered to take my case as my lawyer was moving out of province. I thought I had hit the jackpot because she's a very well known lawyer who is in the same league as my ex's hotshot lawyer. Right at the beginning she seemed so eager, she prepared one affidavit and said she now had enough information to proceed and I was elated and hopeful for the first time in years. I really liked her from the first as she was very professional, intuitive and seemed sympathic to my cause - I couldn't believe my good fortune when she said she would take my case - finally someone who was on the same playing field as my ex's lawyer.

She then went on to cancel all the upcoming court dates without any explanation. I didn't hear from her for several weeks then proceeded to ask for an explanation of the cancellations. Her assistant said she would write me and let me know how we should proceed going forward and to expect the letter within a few days. Well those few days have now turned into a couple of months with no word. I have tried emailing her, calling and leaving messages with her and her assistant offering help and asking for a return response - neither of them will respond or even so much as answer the calls.

It is now 3 months since I've had any communication from her. I know that she hasn't left or gone on holidays as reception tells they've seen her. I am mystified by her actions and don't have a clue what to do about this situation - any suggestions? I am getting desparate as I was led to believe that I might finally find a speedy resolution to my case which is about to enter it's 6th year. All the delays have now rendered me penniless and in so much debt, I have no hope of paying off any time soon. I know at least in the near future I will be receiving some money since I'm months aways from receiving OAS. It is even more frustrating as I have funds but my ex had them frozen years ago along with attaching a Lis pendens to my house so I can't get a line of credit to consolidate. In the meantime paying for utilitiles, groceries, meds and accumulated debt is out of my realm - this is utterly frightening to me.

This situation has been most frustrating and worrisome and hopefully someone will have some helpful suggestions.

[Liferanger]

If the scenario is exactly as dictated above.....that is unacceptable behaviour for a member of the bar. I would author a letter of complaint to the law society of Alberta. I would seek out assistance from another lawyer with your outstanding issue. From the above, even if that gal called you back, why would you want her service after those kind of delays?

[Happy In Ottewell]

Originally Posted by Liferanger

If the scenario is exactly as dictated above.....that is unacceptable behaviour for a member of the bar. I would author a letter of complaint to the law society of Alberta. I would seek out assistance from another lawyer with your outstanding issue. From the above, even if that gal called you back, why would you want her service after those kind of delays?

That is a good question. I do have reservations about continuing to use her services simply because I have no assurances that she will now look after my best interests. Being a high profile lawyer gave me some measure of hope knowing she had the ability to stand up to my ex's high profile lawyer who to date has "chewed and spit out" my past lawyer. I would be the first to admit that at the beginning she was enthusiastic and then all of sudden everything stopped for reasons which I have no idea. I understand lawyers in her position are busy, I really do get that but send even an email saying," hey, I'm really busy but I haven't forgot about you, I'm working on your file bit by bit" - even that would have been an acceptable communication to let me know she working on it behind the scenes.

I understand seeking out assistance of another lawyer but financially I cannot do that anymore. I have spent a small fortune over the last 5 years on legal fees. Paying for another consulation, retainer, fees for tranferring and then re-organizing the file to way they like it, reading through 5 years of paperwork, consultaion and more consultations, doesn't come cheap considering I just paid for all this a few months ago. I am at my wit's end after 5 years of getting nowhere and tired of it being a money pit with no end in sight. I am already stressed to max over this divorce dragging out for so many years adding the issue on top of it is the ultimate limit. There should be a law limiting the time divorces can take.

[mark]

Are you sure you haven't left out some crucial information... like not paying your bills? If you paid a retainer and it's now used up, don't expect your lawyer to do any more work without being paid again. Returning your phone calls (for any reason) constitutes billable work for a lawyer.

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by Happy In Ottewell

That is a good question. I do have reservations about continuing to use her services simply because I have no assurances that she will now look after my best interests. Being a high profile lawyer gave me some measure of hope knowing she had the ability to stand up to my ex's high profile lawyer who to date has "chewed and spit out" my past lawyer. I would be the first to admit that at the beginning she was enthusiastic and then all of sudden everything stopped for reasons which I have no idea. I understand lawyers in her position are busy, I really do get that but send even an email saying," hey, I'm really busy but I haven't forgot about you, I'm working on your file bit by bit" - even that would have been an acceptable communication to let me know she working on it behind the scenes.

I understand seeking out assistance of another lawyer but financially I cannot do that anymore. I have spent a small fortune over the last 5 years on legal fees. Paying for another consulation, retainer, fees for tranferring and then re-organizing the file to way they like it, reading through 5 years of paperwork, consultaion and more consultations, doesn't come cheap considering I just paid for all this a few months ago. I am at my wit's end after 5 years of getting nowhere and tired of it being a money pit with no end in sight. I am already stressed to max over this divorce dragging out for so many years adding the issue on top of it is the ultimate limit. There should be a law limiting the time divorces can take.

i would suggest that you consider contacting the firm's managing partner (they all have one) and asking how he/she would propose resolving things prior to approaching the law society... a little bit of "honey" before the "vinegar" by inviting an "in-house resolution" to get you the performance and attention you thought the firm (not just the individual) was commiting to allowing the firm to address the issue before referring it to outsiders which is probably neither cheap nor quick.

[Happy In Ottewell]

Well, I certainly don't owe her any money as she asked for a healthy retainer and hasn't done much so there must be a fair size balance left. I haven't received an invoice since she was hired. Since she hasn't returned even one phone call (I've never spoke to her on the phone yet). The only email I've had from her was a one line question that only needed a few words for an answer. As for billable hours these shouldn't by any means make a huge dent in the retainer.

As for the managing partner - tried that already (sorry should have mentioned it) at least he answered the phone. He said he would have her call and if she didn't call by a certain date to call him back. She didn't call so a call went out to the managing partner again (who seemed very nice and concerned) said he would look into it some more. Suggested he have her turn the file over to another lawyer within the firm - said he would speak to her and get back - yup that was over 2 weeks ago and still no word.

I would prefer this issue got resolved without going to the law society. Like I said I liked her the one and only time I actually met her - professional? - yes, intuitive? yes, sounded like she knew what she was talking about? yes, familiar with my ex's lawyer? yes She said she would be interested in taking the case if I wanted to hire her and I felt she was the best lawyer for the job (I had interviewed others) I was very hopeful that this case would finally go forward and a resolution found after so many years. i thought I had hit the jackpot when she offered to take over my case and couldn't believe my good fortune in having such a well known lawyer in my corner - finally things were going to move forward.

I cannot for the life of me figure out why she's not returning messages and leaving me in limbo. I don't believe I've done anything that should have even upset her since I haven't spoken to her either in personal or by phone since she was hired.

[whynow99]

Perhaps touch base with a media ombudsman or newspaper colunmist to expand on this issue.....there are far too many lawyers in Alberta/Canada for you to be ignored. Assuming you have provided all the details involved, this Law firm would not want negative press to come out naming them.

[Happy In Ottewell]

whynow99: I must admit you've presented a very intriguing idea. I would actually have a lot to say including, why are so many older divorced and separated women living in poverty? Many of these women have few marketable skills due to living with men who felt the women's place was in the home. Had those same women become widowed instead of divorced they would have been able to collect widow's pension along with their husband's CPP. As is in my case my "husband" thought my place was in the home with our large family of children - chief bottle washer, housekeeper, childcare provider, personal care assistant, handy-woman, financial adviser, driver and any number of other jobs. My break up was a result of a 15 year affair with his sister in-law but other women in my position leave to save their lives, their sanity or both. There are no social programs geared to us as there are for those who sadly have been left as widows. We are the forgotten women of our society, too old for to educate for a new career but not quite old enough to collect OAS and other government programs. If they are fortunate to find a job without experience the best many can hope for is a minimum paying job with grueling hours just to pay for the basics. Many of these women have chronic health issues who forgo needed medications for lack of money -I, myself have on occasion "forgotten" to take my meds just to stretch them out after all meds are expensive. For some of these women it's like playing Russian Roulette with their lives.

I am tired of lawyers taking advantage of me after all these years. They all promise they'll look after my best interests but as of today I am no closer to an end then I was over 5 years ago when this started. I am just not further ahead, I am deeper in debt (I'll be long gone before it's paid off), spent a crap load on lawyers who have disappointed me with their promises (but I have made them richer). I live in the knowledge that right now there is nothing I can do to help my situation. And by the way, no, I don't get any support from my ex, that's a whole other story and something you'll have to take up with his lawyer who insists that "Alberta is Redneck country" and it doesn't acknowledge the Federal Guidelines here. I don't know if there is any truth to that statement he made or did he just paint the entire Alberta Justice system with the same brush? I got the distinct feeling he doesn't have much respect for women either but then again that's only my personal view.

I am disillusioned with our legal system and the lawyers who willing take my money with promises to "help" only to let me down again and again. I'm a pretty easy going person who has compromised over and over again to try and bring this divorce to an end already. I've put my life on hold for years hoping for an end to this nightmare only to have it squashed once again by a lawyer who I pinned my hopes because of her status in the legal community. I keep count of the number of months (not so many anymore) when at least I'll have a regular income thanks to our government when I will finally qualify for OAS and other social programs for low income seniors. I've missed out on opportunities most take for granted like; just going out for lunch or coffee out with friends because it's surprising how quickly your so called friends "forget" about you after you decline offers to meet them for lack of money, I've come to accept that I likely won't find a partner because after all what sane man wants to date someone with the amount of baggage I would bring to a relationship. I see people in grocery stores with their carts loaded with good food and my mouth starts to water while I'm counting out change to pay for bread. I can't complain though because while I may not be able to afford all those mouth watering foods I can honestly say I never starved either so I guess I'm thankful that I'm better off than many others.

Some of you, like my lawyer will suggest asking for social assistance but my pride won't let let me even if I could qualify which I don't. I have the most wonderful supportive children a mother could possibly ask for but it's not their job to look after their mother. Who's job is it to look after a stay-at -home mother who after 30 years of marriage was made redundant?

[whynow99]

You certainly sound lucid and aware of what has happened to you and not been done for you historically but are hesitant to hold anyones feet to the fire, especially lawyers. Everyone has a boss, including lawyers, so do not hesitate to hold them accountable. As I suggested Law Firms do not want negative publicity in the media exposing their lack of performance of a contract. You cannot get into trouble by stating the truth, even if it embarasses a lawyer or law firm. The sooner you act on this situation to get action, or to expose them, the better, or just drop it all together, which appears is what these lawyers want you to do after having taken your money.

[Happy In Ottewell]

Of course, I'm hesitant to hold "feet to the fire" - this is my life those darn lawyers are holding in their hands. They're the ones who are going to dictate whether I get what I rightly deserve or continue living on poverty row for the rest of my life. Think about it - if I really rock the boat, do you think any lawyer is going to do the best darn job on my behalf - I think not! The minute they feel like your intentions of rocking the boat your file will end up at the bottom of the heap and you'll be lucky if it sees daylight in this century. There's little truth to the saying "they work for you" because really you may be paying them but basically you do what they say unless you're willing to sign your life away to keep fighting for your rights. A lot of lawyers are just in it for the money and the fastest turn about they have in clients with the most billable hours the better. Tell your clients it's the "best" deal and suggest you take it and please pay your bill on your way out.

I know it might sound like I'm down on lawyers and maybe I am because why else would I be where I am today? I've spent a small fortune and received nothing in return. I feel like all I've done is make concessions for the last 5 years and even that hasn't helped move this file forward. As I said previously I am exactly where this started over 5 years ago except now all have a lot of restrictions placed by his lawyers and I'm certainly a whole lot poorer. So is it little wonder I'm not anxious to go public? It would take a very special reporter to be able to portray how women like myself get stuck in this never, never land of too old for a career and too young for OAS. Do I feel I and other women in my position need to be heard? Of course because no one bothers about us because we're not widows, disabled or candidates for social assistance - we're the forgotten women of society who husbands felt we should stay home barefoot and pregnant and keep the home fires burning.

This has kind of got away from my original question but I see it's also scared those law types away. I guess they don't want to jump in the fire. I think I've said enough and it's time for me to get off the band wagon because it just gets me riled up and never really gets me anywhere. Anyway as an update, the managing partner was called again who again apologized and said he'd have my lawyer call today but did she? Of course not. This is going nowhere as far as I can see.

[kcantor]

^
on the other hand it would seem that "not holding their feet to the fire" hasn't worked out that well for the last five years... if what you say is true perhaps it is time to do exactly that instead of rationalizing why not.

[Gemini]

I'm no expert on divorce, but if the law states you are entitled to certain things when you divorce why should someone have to wait years for a divorce to become final. Are there not processes where pensions, property, investments etc: are to be rightfully divided in accordance to what the divorce laws state. Unless people are haggling over who gets a potted plant and who gets the goldfish I cannot understand why these things get dragged out for years. What holds the process up. Surely people want to get on with their lives. Now it seems like the divorce lawyers are not helping the process by not keeping their clients informed.

[accountingsucks]

Originally Posted by Happy In Ottewell

whynow99: I must admit you've presented a very intriguing idea. I would actually have a lot to say including, why are so many older divorced and separated women living in poverty? Many of these women have few marketable skills due to living with men who felt the women's place was in the home. Had those same women become widowed instead of divorced they would have been able to collect widow's pension along with their husband's CPP. As is in my case my "husband" thought my place was in the home with our large family of children - chief bottle washer, housekeeper, childcare provider, personal care assistant, handy-woman, financial adviser, driver and any number of other jobs. My break up was a result of a 15 year affair with his sister in-law but other women in my position leave to save their lives, their sanity or both. There are no social programs geared to us as there are for those who sadly have been left as widows. We are the forgotten women of our society, too old for to educate for a new career but not quite old enough to collect OAS and other government programs. If they are fortunate to find a job without experience the best many can hope for is a minimum paying job with grueling hours just to pay for the basics. Many of these women have chronic health issues who forgo needed medications for lack of money -I, myself have on occasion "forgotten" to take my meds just to stretch them out after all meds are expensive. For some of these women it's like playing Russian Roulette with their lives.

I am tired of lawyers taking advantage of me after all these years. They all promise they'll look after my best interests but as of today I am no closer to an end then I was over 5 years ago when this started. I am just not further ahead, I am deeper in debt (I'll be long gone before it's paid off), spent a crap load on lawyers who have disappointed me with their promises (but I have made them richer). I live in the knowledge that right now there is nothing I can do to help my situation. And by the way, no, I don't get any support from my ex, that's a whole other story and something you'll have to take up with his lawyer who insists that "Alberta is Redneck country" and it doesn't acknowledge the Federal Guidelines here. I don't know if there is any truth to that statement he made or did he just paint the entire Alberta Justice system with the same brush? I got the distinct feeling he doesn't have much respect for women either but then again that's only my personal view.

I am disillusioned with our legal system and the lawyers who willing take my money with promises to "help" only to let me down again and again. I'm a pretty easy going person who has compromised over and over again to try and bring this divorce to an end already. I've put my life on hold for years hoping for an end to this nightmare only to have it squashed once again by a lawyer who I pinned my hopes because of her status in the legal community. I keep count of the number of months (not so many anymore) when at least I'll have a regular income thanks to our government when I will finally qualify for OAS and other social programs for low income seniors. I've missed out on opportunities most take for granted like; just going out for lunch or coffee out with friends because it's surprising how quickly your so called friends "forget" about you after you decline offers to meet them for lack of money, I've come to accept that I likely won't find a partner because after all what sane man wants to date someone with the amount of baggage I would bring to a relationship. I see people in grocery stores with their carts loaded with good food and my mouth starts to water while I'm counting out change to pay for bread. I can't complain though because while I may not be able to afford all those mouth watering foods I can honestly say I never starved either so I guess I'm thankful that I'm better off than many others.

Some of you, like my lawyer will suggest asking for social assistance but my pride won't let let me even if I could qualify which I don't. I have the most wonderful supportive children a mother could possibly ask for but it's not their job to look after their mother. Who's job is it to look after a stay-at -home mother who after 30 years of marriage was made redundant?

Who retained the family home? Surely by now it would be paid off. Could that not be sold for proceeds? What have you done in the last five years to make yourself more marketable to employers?

[arabian]

Get another lawyer and don't get sucked into thinking that your spouse's lawyer is a "big time" lawyer. If your lawyer doesn't return your call/email within a a reasonable amount of time then you should report them to the bar association and get another lawyer. Your lawyer's actions are irresponsible and highly unprofessional.

[Happy In Ottewell]

I just have one question to put forth to others in the law industry maybe:

If you are a female needing a strong divorce lawyer who would you get to go against Norm Picard?

[Gemini]

Wow, if you are into your 6th - 7th. year of divorce proceedings and still have not settled you must be haggling over trivial things. Most chicks would have had that guy done and dusted by now. Wiped their hands of him and got on with their lives. If you still have not found a lawyer that can meet your obvious demands I suggest you try to not win in this divorce but maybe just try to break even. Get over it, life is too short.

[Happy In Ottewell]

Gemini - Hopefully that's not the kind of advice you would give your mother if she were in the same situation. Time for a little lesson on what it's like for women who aren't quite retirement age, spent their entire lives being stay at home moms and homemakers, who weren't allowed to work outside the home unless it was a hobby job. They were expected to be baby makers, housekeepers, bookkeepers, cooks, handymen/women, drivers everything in between while the "man" went to work came home ate supper and relaxed until bedtime. Don't think this didn't happened? Living in small town Canada 45 years ago it was pretty normal.

Then comes a time when that "man" decides that you've gotten too old, frumpy, not exciting enough - you name it and decides that he should look for a replacement after you spent all your prime years looking after his needs and those of the children. Deciding to leave is no easy decision since you don't have a higher education, no career to fall back on. The best you can look forward to is a minimum paying job if you can find one and live well beneath Canada's poverty line. You don't qualify for pensions like widows do, you don't get benefits from min. paying jobs because most of them are part time at best. You don't have CPP at age 60 because you haven't been in the workforce because it wasn't allowed. There aren't any social programs geared to older single women who aren't widows. Hey, what the heck you somehow make do - you made sure when you were the financial adviser of the family that at the very least you each had RRSPs to rely on come retirement. You may not have had an education but you learned as you went along to look ahead to retirement.

Women who are stuck in that in between stage of life and divorcing don't have many options. Oh, you say "go back to school and get a career" - yup at 59 or 62 or 74 it years to upgrade and where exactly do you think we're going to find the money to go to school and live some kind of a life? So, yes we're stuck in those minimum paying part time jobs trying to make ends meet while the "man" now lives the life of Riley. He abandons his children - no sense having any contact with them as their only a burden in his new life even though a couple of them are still minors when you left. Did he help with their education? Of course not - come to their weddings? Of course not - couldn't even be bothered to say "congrats"- seen any of his grandchildren in the last 25 years? Nope - didn't bother with the kids so why bother with the grandkids.

You tried to keep the family together and you feel like you've done a pretty good job with the resources you had. The kids got educated, got careers, got married and had your grandchildren. Yes, you're blessed with a great family. You're now ready to start thinking that you're tired and maybe use some of those retirement funds you saved by being frugal. Oh, wait you can't the "man" didn't think that he has enough even though they far exceed yours he needs to have your's frozen along with everything else you've accumulated on your own plus whatever he thinks he can get out of his kid's good fortunes. He abandon them years ago but hears we have a boom going on here so greed takes over and he decides maybe he can add some more to has already growing pile of assets.

It would be a change if we were actually haggling but since he won't participate in his own divorce and leaves everything to his GF to manage (some things never change) it pretty hard deal with someone who can't even open his mouth and deal with the divorce himself.

In the mean time I live on half of what is considered Canada's poverty line. Hoe exactly do divorced/separated women who aren't retirement age live.
Whatever wages that do make goes to housing, food, medical.
You look to either the food bank for help or you check your local grocery store for the cheapest deals you can find - you buy Walmart $1.00 and under specials because your absolute max budget for dinner is $3.00
You layer in the winter time to save on heating - you're thermosat is always at 65 degrees
You can't afford to eat out - forget even that coffee
You've pretty much lost any friends you've had because how many times can one say " sorry I can't" before they stop asking you to meet them for lunches and outings.
Hey, bus fare is $3.00 one way - $6.00 to go somehere is out of the question and why bother anyway because you don't have any extra money to spend on anything anyway.
You don't get all your meds that the doctor prescribed because you don't have the money for them
Dental and eye care will have to wait until you're covered for them at age 65
The list goes on and on but nobody ever gives a thought to how these disadvantaged separated and divorced women are forced to live.

Go on welfare you say. Not so easy - you can still make more even at min wages. I own a house but if I wanted to sell it and downsize I can't because my "man" heard about the boom and put a Lis pendens on it without my knowledge around about the time he decided to freeze all my accounts. I guess I'm more fortunate than a lot of women in my situation in that even though I can't access anything I do have them. The problem then becomes how do I get them back? Oh yeah - the haggling - if only he would haggle maybe we'd actually get this done. His accounts aren't frozen, his house is free and clear as are his investments and he still like he doesn't have to be accountable and particpate but always wanting more.

My obvious demands! Just give me back what's mine I haven't taken yours - give the kids back what you've taken - I'd be happy to done with him including dusting and wiping my hands of him. Of course I'm looking for a lawyer to that meet my demands - I want what's rightfully mine which isn't much but it's mine so I can look forward to each new day and whatever time I have remaining on this earth. I'm tired of living in debt, working a crappy job because I need it, being indebted to my children when I know the resources are there and they're mine but I can't get at them.

Yea, by all means tell your mother, your aunt, your grandmother to stop haggling over trivial things to get over it, life is too short. You judged me without ever knowing anything about me or my situation. I've been trying my darnest to get over it and let me tell you it hasn't been an easy task. I need me a lawyer who is actually willing and not afraid to take on his lawyer to get me back what's mine and I'd be happy to forget him and dust my hands - good ridance.

Hopefully you or your loved ones never find themselves in this kind of situation because as hard as it is to explain to others why it's taking so long it's even harder to live it day after day after day.

[Gemini]

I think at the end of the day a good divorce Judge would tell your husband and his lawyer to stop playing games and get on with it. It also seems obvious your husband thinks little of his new GF as if anything should happen to him (death) you would still be his legal wife and get his assets anyway. It seems he is a master of stringing people along.
I do wish you well and hope you get a resolution that is more than satisfactory. I'm not in an ivory tower myself and I do understand where you are coming from.
Anyway, this web-site may be of assistance to you.
http://www.edmonton.fairwaydivorce.c...FYe8Kgod90Xaeg

Hopefully you can find some of the answers you need and a way to go forward.

[Happy In Ottewell]

Thanks Gemini for the encouraging words, sorry I came on so strong. I guess that still leaves me with my original question of:
Does anyone know of a sharp lawyer who has no problem going up against Norm Picard and coming out in one piece?

[bluebird]

who is the lawyer you used?

[astralrose]

Happy In Ottewell
You should be eligible for spousal support after all of these years. I am not a lawyer, but can't you get a court order?