WestJet: Changing Model?

[Shonkee]

Originally Posted by EdmTrekker

"The separate airline, flying to smaller centres where the passenger numbers can't fill WestJet's 737s - such as between Winnipeg and Regina - will be centred in Calgary and Toronto, he said."

Does not sound good for YEG of Calgary is the hub for all turbo props. Its really too bad that there has been no public discussion about Edmonton in this role for WJ.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin...494/story.html

Why wld Edm come into the discussion??? It only makes sense to base the Western Canadian HQ for the new airline out Cgy. WJ HQ and HUB for West Canada is Cgy so just makes sense economically to base new airline out of Cgy as well. It will essentially be the same ppl running the new airline at the end of the day.

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by Shonkee

Why wld Edm come into the discussion??? It only makes sense to base the Western Canadian HQ for the new airline out Cgy. WJ HQ and HUB for West Canada is Cgy so just makes sense economically to base new airline out of Cgy as well. It will essentially be the same ppl running the new airline at the end of the day.

Shonkee (from Alberta), so contrary to what WJ has said, which is that it would be a separate operating airline company, you are saying it won't be operating as a separate company so therefor it MUST be based in Calgary. Glad you cleared that up. Also you state that WJ only has 1 HUB in Western Canada. Are we to assume that you are a Sr. Executive from WJ? or is this all just your opinion?

[Shonkee]

Originally Posted by EdmTrekker

Shonkee (from Alberta), so contrary to what WJ has said, which is that it would be a separate operating airline company, you are saying it won't be operating as a separate company so therefor it MUST be based in Calgary. Glad you cleared that up. Also you state that WJ only has 1 HUB in Western Canada. Are we to assume that you are a Sr. Executive from WJ? or is this all just your opinion?

Just keeping whining why Edm has not been in the discussion of the role of the new airline. I guess Edm should always be first in any discussion?? LOL.

[Medwards]

Shonkee - It would seem you want Calgary first in any discussion, seeing as the only time you post on here is to talk about Calgary, and be a big *****.

[Shonkee]

Originally Posted by Medwards

Shonkee - It would seem you want Calgary first in any discussion, seeing as the only time you post on here is to talk about Calgary, and be a big *****.

I'm not from Cgy Wedmards...If u wld like to know I'm in Banff....I don't want Cgy first in any discussion. Funny how everyone starts thread and gloats when YYC loses airlines/service but any time anyone says anything good abt YYC it burns everyone's *** here. Why's that Medwards????

[Medwards]

Then why is every single post of yours is something about Calgary?

[ctzn-Ed]

If fellow pannelists would look up the word 'shonky' in the dictionary, you can see where he got his forum name.

Shonkee, come down and visit my main home in Manhatten(NY), you can see there is nothing to brag about your Calgary as a city or airport. Childish and pathethic and at most, I am laughing in my head.

With that said, I prefer all of Alberta to succeed in everyway!

[McBoo]

Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed

...
If fellow pannelists would look up the word 'shonky' in the dictionary, you can see where he got his forum name.

LMAO - didn't find Shonky in Merriam-Webster, but did in the good-young Urban Dictionary: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shonky

Too much fun. Must_stop_laughing ...

[moahunter]

^its from New Zealand and Australian English, pretty comon word downunder. You can see it in Oxford dictionary:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/shonky

Something that is shonky, is poor quality.

[sundance]

Umm should we get back on topic rather than analyzing the etymology of a word?

This could be good for Edmonton, we could get additional flights to areas that aren't serviced already because of lower demand than wide body service.

[jbubble]

What would be good for Edmonton is not more flights but the airport and EEDC people spending time at Westjet convincing them that thir regional airline should be based at YEG. They missed the boat with Westjet consolidating into their new campus, hope they are not asleep this time.

[ctzn-Ed]

^You lost me jbubble... Convincing WJ regional to be based here will mean more flights, so why would we not want more flights?

^^ Sundance, that was my contribution as a little mood breaker to a delima. Happy pannelist = healthy construction point of view.

[jbubble]

^exactly. So instead of the usual getting more flights mantra get the new regional airline based at YEG and flights will come, and probably more than if flights was sole focus.

[ctzn-Ed]

^That is better...for a second, it sounded like you were tautaligizing, so I was thinking make ip your mind.

Agreed with that 100%, especially using the argument of the work force flying up north. Most sites now have only fly in-out with logistic location of boardings. Smaller areas like Prince George, Saskatoon, and so forth would benefit with this concept! Then Canadian North can via passengers to their job sites.

[LO 044]

Wouldn't WestJet want the most conncetion possibilities for their new regional airline? In that case the western hub will be YYC or YVR and the eastern hub will be YYZ.

[jbubble]

That is typical small Edmonton thinking.

Think big and put forward a compelling case that addresses that issue.

[ctzn-Ed]

^^ it's not about refering to logistic ancillaring processing, but it is about poaching in hoping of gaining something.

If one was refering to commonsense, base on geographical point of view, Edmonton should have been a base for both airlines as we're directly centralized in Western Canada. Logic is not always applied in business as politics is sometimes involved.
It is up to EIA and the our city to fetch them some gravy, and see what we get. Calgary did this method in the 80's hence their lushes downtown forest.

[ctzn-Ed]

I haven't left that seven figures dump of a place, or city that everyone wants to come and visit, emulate, and wish to live in; I enjoy my home root and came back to add to my real estate portfolio- soon to be my fourth property. So how is your dump? Obviously not that exciting seeing as how your on Edmonton's topic of issues. Your obsessed with Edmonton; you can't stop thinking about us; it's like your stalking us and don't want to leave us. You say we are not as good as Calgary; but what you are really saying is where way better... That is why we are getting themost part of attention and I love! If you don't care, then you shouldn't be here. Bye Bye!

[moahunter]

WestJet, which may launch the short-haul service as early as 2013 with a fleet of about 40 turboprops, said it will now ask for proposals from Bombardier Inc., for its Q400 NextGen plane, and ATR, a joint venture of aerospace group EADS and Italian defence group Finmeccanica, for its ATR 72-600 aircraft.

The new routes would bring WestJet into head-on competition with its biggest rival Air Canada, which is the only carrier on some routes between smaller towns.

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/busin...#ixzz1lnorIyUg

Seems WestJet employees see the benefits of the new airline, so the hysteria of some that this will be some sort of low cost / no frills downgrade that will put pressure on reducing salaries, didn't hold sway.

[sundance]

Thank you Moa for getting us back on topic.

Westjet employees voted 91% in favor of this decision;
http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=633
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/mobil...994/story.html

[Admin]

I have unapproved 3 off track posts and banned one poster. Stay on topic please, and swearing in any language is not tolerated.

[Glenco]

Great article comparing Q400and the ATR72. Hard to know which one WS will buy. http://aeroblogger.com/tag/bombardier/

The only real market that has embraced the Q400 is North America. Longer routes that the Q400 replaces with jets makes sense. But in the rest of the world, regional routes are truly regional, and the job is well done by the ATR72, be it the -500 or the -600. This has led to a larger number of ATR72 aircraft in operation, which has an important effect: a higher resale value. A used ATR72 can fetch much more than a similarly used Q400, all because the demand-supply economics work in its favor.

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by Glenco

Great article comparing Q400and the ATR72. Hard to know which one WS will buy. http://aeroblogger.com/tag/bombardier/

The only real market that has embraced the Q400 is North America. Longer routes that the Q400 replaces with jets makes sense. But in the rest of the world, regional routes are truly regional, and the job is well done by the ATR72, be it the -500 or the -600. This has led to a larger number of ATR72 aircraft in operation, which has an important effect: a higher resale value. A used ATR72 can fetch much more than a similarly used Q400, all because the demand-supply economics work in its favor.

Indeed...so where is the NA service centre...or would WJ build a maintenance facility at YYC - given the only carrier in NA using the ATR according to wiki is American and it is 28 planes.

[Hull534]

First air has a fleet of 11 ATR's . Edmonton might make a good service maintenance centre for these. Especially as these planes continue to replace the aging 737- 200 frieghter combis with gravel kits for the arctic regions.

[Thomas Hinderks]

Originally Posted by Hull534

First air has a fleet of 11 ATR's . Edmonton might make a good service maintenance centre for these. Especially as these planes continue to replace the aging 737- 200 frieghter combis with gravel kits for the arctic regions.

As I have been told by a First Air pilot that is a good friend...
First Air's Ottawa base in combination with Yellowknife currently handle regular maintenance.

C/D and other heavy checks have all gone offshore since SPAR closed here.
A very limited amount to Cascade in BC, but they have the DND contract and not lots of openings.

Don't see them making an investment in a Heavy maintenance facility in Canada when there are so many other international options that get it done with "Zero" investment.

[moahunter]

Originally Posted by Glenco

Great article comparing Q400and the ATR72. Hard to know which one WS will buy. http://aeroblogger.com/tag/bombardier/

That is a good article, thanks for posting. It seems to me, if WestJets plan was to replace routes currently flown by 737's, the Q400 might be the better bet. But for shorter hall flights, which I think is WestJets plan (to feed into its jet hubs, especially out east), that 30% better fuel economy, lower price, and only marginally longer flight time, makes the ATR72 look like a no brainer:

To a passenger, a turboprop is simply a prop. The noise levels in the ATR72 aren’t any much higher than the Q400 with its ANVS system. A short hop on a noisy plane is more bearable than a longer, so deploying a turboprop on a sector longer than 500NM is plain torture. For a typical regional sector flying distance of about 300NM, the ATR72 picks up a maximum of 13 minutes over the Q400, which hardly makes a difference. To the well informed passenger, the Q400′s safety comes under question, after the spate of landing gear incidents that the aircraft suffered.

To an airline, 5 ATR72s can be bought in the price of 4 Q400s, and still a good amount can be saved. This gives 360 seats for the ATR operator as compared to 312 seats for the Q400 operator. On top of this, the ATR72 consumes much lesser fuel, which can translate to savings. Typical operations on the 300NM sector reveal the ATR having only a 7 minute disadvantage in exchange for about 300kgs of fuel savings. Three ATR72s will save 900kgs of fuel over three Q400 flights, sufficient to fuel another ATR72 over 300NM. The ATR72 breaks even at around 35% load factor, while for the Q400 it is a much higher 60%. The ATR72 makes absolute and undisputed economic sense.

[Glenco]

The biggest advantage for the Q400 is delivery. With the backlog of orders ATR have they may not be able to deliver in 2013 the projected start up date for WS.

[Glenco]

[QUOTE=moahunter;421645]

Originally Posted by Glenco

Great article comparing Q400and the ATR72. Hard to know which one WS will buy. http://aeroblogger.com/tag/bombardier/

That is a good article, thanks for posting. It seems to me, if WestJets plan was to replace routes currently flown by 737's, the Q400 might be the better bet. But for shorter hall flights, which I think is WestJets plan (to feed into its jet hubs, especially out east), that 30% better fuel economy, lower price, and only marginally longer flight time, makes the ATR72 look like a no brainer:

I don't think it is that clear cut. Firstly the type of jet the Q400 is designed to replace is the smaller regional jets in the 60-70 seat range not 737 range of 120-160. So it would not replace their current fleet.
Secondly there are a lot of routes that are longer than 300nm in Canada that would give the Q400 an advantage.
For instance Edmonton to Kamloops, Prince George and Whitehorse.
Then there is the Canadian factor. What incentives would the different levels of government be prepared to give to keep these jobs in Ontario.
And besides the Q400 is nicer looking.

[Hilman]

WestJet selects Bombardier Q400 for new regional airline

Airline to take delivery of up to 45 new turboprop aircraft over the next six years

CALGARY, May 1, 2012 /CNW/ - WestJet today announced it has selected Montreal-based Bombardier Inc. to supply aircraft for its new regional airline, expected to launch in the second half of 2013. The airline will fly the Bombardier Q400 NextGen to new cities, existing destinations not currently connected by WestJet, and will allow for schedule improvements on certain routes where a smaller aircraft can efficiently provide greater frequency.

"We are very impressed with the Q400," commented Gregg Saretsky, WestJet President and CEO. "Both ATR and Bombardier put forward excellent proposals and ultimately we believe the Bombardier Q400's combination of range, speed and seat density is the best choice to meet the needs of the market and how we plan to operate the regional airline. We look forward to working with another great Canadian company."

"This is a very proud day for Bombardier," said Mike Arcamone, President, Bombardier Commercial Aircraft. "We are thrilled that WestJet has selected the Q400 NextGen aircraft for its fleet expansion requirements. The Q400 NextGen aircraft has long been recognized as the turboprop best suited to perform in the robust Canadian and U.S. landscape and environments. Our new-generation turboprop aircraft fits perfectly into this iconic Canadian airline's brand and we are pleased to welcome WestJetters and their guests to our Bombardier family."

WestJet has signed a letter of intent to purchase 20 Q400s with the option to purchase a further 25 aircraft. The airline expects to announce its initial regional schedule using the Q400s later in 2012.

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=659

[TheGreatestX]

So will they share gates with the Jazz planes at YEG?

[McBoo]

^Depending on connections they could use the Gate 49 pier.

They could also use the Gate 7 pier.

Interesting choice. I had assumed they'd choose the Q400, but the more I read about the ATR, the better it seemed.

Good on Bombardier - good on WestJet.

[FlyFlyAway]

A Q400 can also use a jetway - Alaska (Horizon) Air's flights all do in Edmonton. Don't count out a regular gate.

I'd be shocked if Westjet used Gate 49. 7 offers faster connections, consolidated operations, less congestion at the gate podiums, with the inconvenience of a long(er) walk from security. (Less important to WestJet than to the more commuting-oriented Air Canada flights.)

[McBoo]

^True about Horizon.

As to Gate 49 or 7 ... WJ does feed its PHO and LAS flights utilizing Gates 54 or 56.

CMA (which feeds AC)and Northwestern use Gate 7 at present (First Air too?). Because the smaller airlines fly from airports that lack security, connecting pax have to exit airside and re-enter through central security.

Now, maybe the Gate configuration is/could be made flexible to allow flow of pax from airports that do have security straight up to the WJ operations w/o that hassle. Probably, just not sure.

[sundance]

Now this is an interesting change of business models, the average airline is fairly low profit, the average oil company high profit...

Delta Subsidiary to Acquire Trainer Refinery Complex
Delta Air Lines (NYSE: DAL) wholly-owned subsidiary, Monroe Energy LLC, has reached agreement with Phillips 66 (NYSE: PSX-WI) to acquire the Trainer refinery complex south of Philadelphia. As part of the transaction, Monroe will enter into strategic sourcing and marketing agreements with BP (NYSE: BP) and Phillips 66. The acquisition includes pipelines and transportation assets that will provide access to the delivery network for jet fuel reaching Delta's operations throughout the Northeast, including its hubs at LaGuardia and JFK.
http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1601

[FlyFlyAway]

Originally Posted by McBoo

As to Gate 49 or 7 ... WJ does feed its PHO and LAS flights utilizing Gates 54 or 56.

Has to - planes have to arrive into Canada Customs (notably those arriving from Mexico/Caribbean); can't be north of Gate 50. But that's a fraction of WestJet's overall traffic, especially when it switches to summer schedule. What was interesting is just how many domestic WestJet arrivals use those gates during the middle of the day. Not sure why - who's using Gates 8 and 10 all day? Interesting....

There's not a ton of room for two full sets of podiums at Gate 49 (w/ multiple concurrent departures), plus Canadian North squeezed in. 8:00 AM and 5:00 PM would look pretty ugly around there w/o a significant reconfig, right?

Great point about existing customers (yes, including First Air) at Gate 7 having to exit the airside terminal due to security restrictions. That can be modified, but by my recollection wouldn't be brain-dead simple to separate the airside arrivals and the landside arrivals. Perhaps the addition of the hotel and its connection to the airport could include a "heated walkway" from Gate 7.1 to the pre-security terminal area, leaving Gate 7.2 to route to the post-security connecting area.

Pointing more and more to using some of the domestic jetway gates.... But I'm confused - I'm sure EIA operations has some good ideas. Could one of them be moving Air Canada north? Expensive lounge relocation....

[Hilman]

Possible Westjet livery:

WestJet says it's pleased with price it will pay for new Bombardier Q400 planes
The Canadian Press

CALGARY - WestJet Airlines has selected Bombardier to supply the propeller aircraft it requires for a new regional service, putting to rest speculation that the order would go to a European rival of the Montreal-based plane manufacturer.

The Calgary-based airline announced Tuesday that it will take delivery of up to 45 of the Bombardier Q400 Next Generation planes over the next six years. They will be used for a new regional service that WestJet expects to launch next year.

WestJet didn't reveal the cost but analysts estimated that, based on list prices, the orders would be worth up to $1.4 billion to Bombardier if all 45 planes are purchased. The actual price is often below list price, however.

Gregg Saretsky, WestJet's president and chief executive, told analysts and reporters that the two companies had agreed not to disclose the price for the planes.

"Suffice it to say that there was a vigorous competition between the two manufacturers and we're very pleased with the price we were able to secure these aircraft for," Saretsky added.

http://www.570news.com/news/national...gional-service

[McBoo]

^ Great pic. But maybe change the name of the subsidiary to WestProp?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

FlyFly - you could double deck Gate 7. Pax from terminals with security would climb/ escalator to Level 2 and walk right into the Gate 8/10/12 monstrosity - those from other airports would stay on level 1 and exit airside to arrivals.

Works in Europe - though with double decker sky bridges.

[Admin]

Hilman, please cite the picture's copyright and/or a link back to the original source. Thanks.

Cool look BTW. Thanks for sharing.

[Hilman]

WestJet Places Conditional Order for Up to 45 Bombardier Q400 NextGen Aircraft

- Canadian airline to acquire 20 aircraft with options for 25 more

TORONTO, ONTARIO--(Marketwire - June 28, 2012) - Bombardier Aerospace announced today that WestJet, an Alberta partnership, has signed a conditional order for 20 Q400 NextGen turboprops following the letter of intent to purchase the aircraft that was announced by WestJet on May 1, 2012. The transaction also includes options on an additional 25 Q400 NextGen aircraft.

Based on list price, a firm order for 20 Q400 NextGen aircraft would be valued at approximately $683 million US, and could increase to approximately $1.59 billion US should the 25 options be converted to firm orders.

The announcement was made today in Calgary where WestJetters and their families were on hand for a close-up look at the Q400 NextGen aircraft on display at the airline's Campus. Also in attendance, were potential regional airport delegations from across the country and media representatives. Earlier this year, an internal WestJet poll revealed that over 90 per cent of WestJetters were in favour of launching a regional airline to serve more communities across Canada. Set to begin operations in the second half of 2013, the regional airline is anticipated to serve regional airports from coast to coast that are currently considered under-served.

http://www.marketwire.com/press-rele....a-1675119.htm

[McBoo]

Gotta love how WestJet gets warm and fuzzies everywhere it goes:

Also on Thursday, representatives from 30 communities across Canada — including Medicine Hat, Lethbridge, Brandon, MB., and North Battleford, SK — were in Calgary trying to convince WestJet to include their city in the new service.

Many of these communities — whose residents currently feel under-served by their existing air service — have made a number of creative attempts to get WestJet’s attention. Nanaimo, B.C. waged a strong social media campaign; Brandon, MB had over 10,000 signatures on a petition; while Penticton, B.C. declared themselves “WestJetville” on Thursday.

Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/WestJet...#ixzz1z7yqvMAG

[Hilman]

WestJet says its regional fares will be cheaper than Air Canada’s
Company’s financial performance ranks high among world airlines
By Amanda Stephenson and NICOLE MORDANT, Calgary Herald and Reuters July 10, 2012

CALGARY — WestJet’s planned Canadian short-haul carrier will likely charge about a third less than its main rival Air Canada for last-minute travel, the company’s chief executive said on Tuesday.“Our last-minute, walk-up fares are 30 per cent lower than Air Canada’s. I would expect at minimum that fares in the regional space would have a similar relativity,” WestJet CEO Gregg Saretsky said in an interview.

WestJet — which plans to make a $200 million capital investment in 2013 to launch its regional carrier — has said it will begin the new service with five to seven aircraft in the first year, in either Western or Eastern Canada. The goal will be to expand the service to the other half of the country the following year. The company expects to hire about 1,800 employees for the airline, which will allow WestJet to compete with Air Canada in smaller markets.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin...dmontonjournal

[JustYeggin]

I would say...long gone are the days when WestJet really provided competitive pricing in Canada.

It's just a PR campaign. WJ prices are expensive and just as expensive as AC/

Anyone looking for a ticket from Edmonton to Toronto or Montreal, look how much it is for a r/t this summer...Insane!!! Over $750.

[FlyFlyAway]

Originally Posted by JustYeggin

I would say...long gone are the days when WestJet really provided competitive pricing in Canada.

It's just a PR campaign. WJ prices are expensive and just as expensive as AC/

I think you missed WestJet's decision in 2010 to reduce deep-discount seat sales and offer everyday value pricing, with significantly lower fares at the highest end of the seat pricing scale. So there's no more $199 r/t flights to Toronto that are only valid three weeks in advance and only for the first 15 seats sold. Those are now $399 r/t. The trade off - which is what the article above references - is that instead of paying $1100 o/w for a last-minute, last-seat-available flight to Toronto on AC, you pay $700 o/w on WestJet. Sounds like they'll continue that policy for regional flights, which makes for some interesting pricing decisions on the low-end advance purchase side of the business.

If 50% of your regional flight volume is advance purchase connecting traffic, and if you price those flights competitively based upon distance rather than actual cost (which is what WestJet does today for their mainline connecting flights), then you don't have a lot of room left to break even on the flight with your remaining 50% of seats. If I fly to Cancun from Grande Prairie today, that first flight to YEG/YYC might "cost" as little as $20 o/w advance purchase. AC's model is to fill 10% of their regional seats with very expensive full fare purchases. WestJet, theoretically, only needs to fill 15% of their seats with modestly expensive full fare purchases. Question is: can they? Given that WestJet has become mostly a hub-and-spoke airline, I suspect they're quite comfortable with the numbers as they shrink their planes. It's only if they start adding lots of small markets (instead of a few more, the Brandons and Sudburys and Atlantic Citys) that they could find themselves in trouble with this model, especially in cities with AC Express service and existing corporate/government discount agreements with AC.

[JustYeggin]

I was referring to is the specific article/news release. It clearly mentions that they would offer cheaper walk up fares.

99% of the time, walk up fares are sold to businesses who don't mind spending the big bucks.

I own a consulting business and when my client says..you need to be in Toronto for a meeting, I am charging them the full cost of the flight.

It just proves my point, WJ is no longer the discount alternative that it used to be. And how you they stimulate demand if they are going to offer the same pricing that AC offers right now.

[FlyFlyAway]

Courtesy ITA Software:

YEG-YYZ Y-class fare: WS $653; AC $1931
YEG-YUL Y-class fare: WS $663; AC $1937
YEG-YYC Y-class fare: WS $276; AC $742
YEG-YVR Y-class fare: WS $425; AC $961
(one-way, all taxes & fees included)

Now that's a little unfair since you mentioned walk-up, which could be any fare class and not full-fare Y. "B"-class Latitude fares are very often (but not always) available, and they're about 35% less than full fare Y-class. Which still puts those flights about double the cost of WestJet. But it's very, very difficult to find a Latitude fare that is ever cheaper than the highest WestJet fare. That's what Gregg is referring to with his 30% comment.

Now if you want to talk restricted advanced purchase economy fares - like AC's Tango Plus offerings - then I'd agree that WestJet and Air Canada are far too (non)competitive for a budget flyer's liking. Too many variables to compare directly, the biggest of which remains AC's corporate discounts. But that's not a walk-up fare. That's a book 24/48/72/168 hours before, no-refund fare. You can argue that Westjet doesn't actually offer a walk-up fare - I'd have to agree I suppose - but Gregg is comparing (and his team is pricing) what happens when you buy a ticket for same-day flight at the airport, and that's what the definition of a walk-up fare is.

If you feel that WestJet and Air Canada offer the same prices, go ahead. Based upon what you're buying, you must be right. But to say that Gregg is wrong wouldn't be accurate. And even thinking that $750 r/t YYZ (your original post) represents walk-up pricing demonstrates that you and he are talking about two completely separate levels of pricing. Double that number and then we're talking apples and apples.

[JustYeggin]

^
The article specifically mentions that WestJet's regional carrier would be 30% cheaper than AC's "Last minute walk up fares". I know for a fact that most people who buy last minute walk up fares could not care less for the additional 30% in price (it's mostly on expense accounts). I don't think this is a B vs Y vs L class fare. The issue here is that WestJet has adopted a pricing strategy that seems to hurt budget travelers - which was how this company was founded on. And to me this goes against the idea of stimulating growth. I am a budget traveler when I am buying my own tickets and not so much when I am expensing / billing my flights.

I obviously don't have access to Greg's books, but I am only commenting on how this article is clearly misleading - especially when they say they will be 30% cheaper.

Either way, Do you really think that Westjet's pricing is competitive as an LCC?

[FlyFlyAway]

I agree that WestJet reducing the number and quality of their super-seat-sales in 2010 has hurt the budget traveller. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. What does that have to do with the article (not the headline) saying that last-minute or walk-up fares are and are likely to continue to be much lower than Air Canada, other than venting some frustration?

Is WestJet still a LCC? Depends on who and what you're comparing WestJet to. If we stick to North America, I'd say that WestJet is very competitive with Southwest, with the notable exception in the last 24 months of very limited ultra-discount seat sales. Yes, WestJet has a few markets on from 1PM - 4 PM on Thursday's, but that doesn't match Southwest's big sales that are available for at least 48 hours and usually for 10 days. And Southwest's nearly-weekly discounts are at least as good, often better, and to far more destinations, than WestJet's semi-frequent "sales" to a broad base. So at the very low end involving advertised seat sales, no WestJet's pricing does not align with other LCC's. At every other price point including their lowest fares...yes, I'd say they're very competitive.

WestJet vs. JetBlue (who I believe have the closest product these days) is even closer to equal. JetBlue does some really nice things out east with Caribbean flights that I don't think WestJet does, but then I don't fly from Toronto/New York to the Caribbean so I can't say for certain. Have to ring up an analyst. JetBlue still has some awesome sales, but they are very few (quarterly?) and often very short (24-hour was the last one). And they punted the "All-You-Can-Jet" up to a business offering instead of free flights for vagabonds...and the thinking is they won't even offer it in 2012 since it was purely a business traveller promotional "Get To Know Us" last year. Well, Boston business travellers got to know JetBlue...not sure it made much of a difference. So if anything JetBlue is becoming more like WestJet from my viewpoint.

WestJet vs. Spirit? vs. Allegiant? Not even close to comparable. Of course, not comparable service model, a la carte billing, flying product, or airport networks either. Frontier? I'd say Frontier is ahead of WestJet, in part to capture some market share in that ultra-competitive Denver market. But trying to integrate Midwest was a disaster, Republic is going to write the airline off, so I don't think Frontier is the business model you want to emulate. Any other LCC I should consider?

Right now, I'd say AC is chasing the low price point on eastern routes to keep Porter off balance (and WestJet joins along for the ride), leaving Western Canada somewhat ignored by all the airlines right now. Look at the "25% off all flights" for various Eastern Canada routes that seemed to fill my inbox every week last winter/spring. Saw that...once? for select Western Canadian routes...never for transcontinental. Whereas after a brief spring lull, the US seat sales are coming back very strong. Whether LCCs are leading the charge (which appears to be the case) or the legacy carriers having some flexibility to offer lower fares (which I doubt), that's subject to debate. WestJet made their case for "no more sales" and have been willing to stick with it - sales alone do not make a LCC. Low cost flights across the board do...and WestJet is quite competitive across the fare classes IMHO. Just not with the short-duration advertised sales fares.

Understand that Canadian pricing is always going to be more on a ASM-to-ASM basis. Welcome to operating in Canada. I'm trying to compare apples to apples on gut feel, so take it with a grain of salt. Comparing SW and B6 to DL/AA/UA and looking at the pricing differential (which is minimal on most segments at the low end) and carry that over to WS and AC.

And it's not "will be 30% cheaper", it "is 30% cheaper" and hoping to continue that approach. Your take is that the comment is ... "misleading" (I'd use another term). I'd say you're talking about two completely separate things, which you seem to agree with in your post when you say you don't care about the 30% difference. Ummm...that's what he was talking about, that's the quote, take it for what you will. Don't like the headline "spin" even though it's plainly worded in Paragraph 1? Welcome to journalism.... I hate headlines too, but I take the 5 seconds to read on and accept that a headline writer's got a hard job.

[Hilman]

WestJet announces premium economy seating

Extra legroom to be combined with convenience features and select on-board amenities

CALGARY, Aug. 1, 2012 /CNW/ - WestJet today announced it will introduce premium economy seating across its entire fleet. The reconfiguration will introduce four rows of extra legroom seating with 36 inches of pitch and convenience features such as priority boarding as well as complimentary on-board amenities. The reconfiguration will begin in August and will be completed in December 2012.

"We continue to evolve our product offerings to provide greater benefit and value to a wider variety of guests," said Bob Cummings, WestJet Executive Vice-President, Sales, Marketing and Guest Experience. "We are confident that this new initiative, combined with the remarkable guest experience delivered by our inflight team, our reliable on-time service and our low fares will see even more guests flying with us."

As part of this initiative, WestJet will also standardize the seat pitch for the remaining rows on all aircraft to 31 to 32 inches, bringing its seat pitch in line with North American competitors.

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=696

[Hilman]

WestJet reports record second quarter net earnings

Airline announces an increase to its quarterly dividend
WestJet to introduce a premium economy product

CALGARY, Aug. 1, 2012 /CNW/ - WestJet (TSX: WJA) today announced a second quarter net earnings record of $42.5 million, or $0.31 per diluted share; up from the net earnings of $25.6 million, or $0.18 per diluted share, reported in the second quarter of 2011. These financial results mark WestJet's 29th consecutive quarter of profitability. Based on the trailing twelve months, the airline achieved a return on invested capital of 11.4 per cent, up from the 10.8 per cent reported last quarter.

http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=695

[sundance]

Seeing Westjet is moving away from the Southwest model, I wonder if there is room for a new airline to start up (or change its focus) to use the Southwest model?

[JustYeggin]

So less seat pitch for regular economy may result in more seats - smart way to increase revenues.

I only wish WestJet would modify its frequent flyer system.

[LO 044]

Does anyone in the know know if WestJet's Q400's will have reclining seats? I think the seats on Horizon's Q400's are quite uncomfortable and they do not recline. For some reason i thought this was the norm for the prop planes since i believe AC's Dash 8 seats also do not recline. Once again my theory was wrong while travelling in Europe on a Q400 with LH Regional / Augsburg Airways.

I am hoping that WestJet chooses reclining seats for the Q400's. I believe this would definitely be another bonus for them vs the AC props.

[JustYeggin]

^ I flew Porter back in 2008 and I am pretty sure the seats reclined at the time.

[Hilman]

WestJet’s turboprop order worth $683 million, says Bombardier
20 Q400 NexGen turboprop aircraft on order
By THE CANADIAN PRESS August 8, 2012

MONTREAL — Bombardier Aerospace (TSX:BBD.B) said Wednesday that WestJet’s firm order for 20 Q400 NexGen turboprop aircraft has a list value of $683 million.

If the Calgary-based airline exercises all its options for up to 25 additional Q400s, the list value of the total deal would be about $1.59 billion.

“We are very pleased that our negotiations with Bombardier have led to the finalization of this purchase agreement,” said Gregg Saretsky, WestJet’s president and CEO.

“We now look forward to fine tuning our plan to launch our new regional airline in the second half of 2013,” Saretsky said in a statement

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/busin...576/story.html

[Hull534]

It's Westjet Encore !

Westjet announced the name of it's new airline today. Probably not a bad choice to capitalise on it's earned reputation. Now to see the routes...

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1051...-encoreestjest

[JustYeggin]

Brilliant....from a branding perspective anyways.

Makes a lot of sense to stay away from "express". As the "express" term usually refers to and associated with "less".

So kudos to the WestJet marketing team. (although I am not a WestJet fan)

[JustYeggin]

Interesting read...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...dy-planes.html

[Glenco]

It only makes sense to get something they can use year round rather than leasing 757s every winter.

[TheGreatestX]

They are likely our only shot at a new longhaul route. They are partners with KLM which could lead to Amsterdam service and JAL which could lead to Tokyo service.