Time-out room standards (elementary schools)

[psiebold1]

Anyone know if there was ever was board wide policy changes regarding time-out rooms between 1993 and now?

History:

In 1991, the principal of Meyonohk Elementary School installed new rooms within his Quiet Room. These little rooms were called Opportunity Rooms. Other students remember these places as cramped and for some reason lined with carpet. The rooms only measured 1 square metre in real estate. At the time, there was no policy for the minimum size of time-out rooms for regular students, but there was a policy for students with special behaviour problems at 1.2 m by 1.8 m (2.16 m².)

They were first used in the 1991-1992 school year, the year I entered the school.

Some teachers, I suspect, did not like these rooms and so never sent their students there. I never saw the Mandarin teachers send their students there, it was always the English teachers, but not all of them. My grade 1 teacher never used them. My grade two teacher used them all the time and I eventually ended up spending two thirds of grade two inside the Opportunity Rooms, if only because of my undiagnosed Asperger's and Tourette's. My grade three teacher generally avoided it and the following teachers did not often place me their save for the assistant principal, who would always give me in-school suspensions, some of them lasting five days for a stretch.

There were other significant issues with regards to the school, but I'm curious about any implementation of new policies regarding the time out rooms.

As of an Edmonton Journal article on June 1, 1993, there was only two of these rooms, both unlocked. At a later date, another cubicle was added that was locked from the inside. You had to literally shout to the secretaries if you had to use the bathroom while in the new one. After it was built, it was the one I got for most of the rest of the time at the school until 1997. My younger brother, also with Asperger's, also found himself in the new room. It was them calling my parents that my parents realised that this school was very problematic for children with neurodevelopmental disorders and any mental disorders.

[moahunter]

I received "the strap" at elementary, and was cained at intermediate (junior high). Made me think twice, can't say I would have worried as much about spending time alone (always liked myself).

Oh there is a wikipage on Caning:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caning

[psiebold1]

I know what the strap feels like and what a cane feels like. They are nothing compared to being forgotten in the locked rooms.

[Dusty Bear]

Originally Posted by psiebold1

At a later date, another cubicle was added that was locked from the inside. You had to literally shout to the secretaries if you had to use the bathroom while in the new one.

I can't imagine that's even legally allowed.

[Komrade]

Lawton Junior High had 'the rooms' but it was only for the kids in BA (Behaviour Assistance) those kids would get tossed in their regularly. If you were really bad in the 'normal' classes a BA teacher would take you to the room! Dun dun dun!

[edmonton daily photo]

^ That is just sick! Someone should sue... It's WRONG!

[Komrade]

[psiebold1]

Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo

^ That is just sick! Someone should sue... It's WRONG!

The rooms have purpose but sometimes the rules are not followed because they are too vague.

[Gemini]

Time out rooms. Mmmmmm. Sound like a nice name to cover up what are rooms that sound like prison cells. In fact prison cells usually give you windows. Kind of disgraceful that these things even excist.

[Titanium48]

Students are not supposed to be left in time out rooms without supervision. If the door locks, it is supposed to unlock automatically when the mechanism is released.

[psiebold1]

I don't remember exactly the lock. I do remember there being actually two doors, one without a knob on the inside. The other door had a door knob on the inside, but I can't remember exactly if it was locked - I would need further confirmation of my memories. I do remember having to worry about fire drills or fires - that sticks in my mind. I also remember having to wait extra time after classes finished on some occasions, if only because the secretaries forgot and I couldn't see the clock. I do find it odd that for the most part, it was the secretaries who brought me out and not the principal, vice-principal or my teachers.

[edmonton daily photo]

Originally Posted by psiebold1

The rooms have purpose but sometimes the rules are not followed because they are too vague.

no they don't have purpose.. its a sick and antiquated way of dealing with a situation that simply takes time to address. I am happy to say that I work for an organization that helps the mentally disabled intigrate into society and lead happy lives. It takes out of the box thinking and support, not locked in a box by yourself thinking.

Sick sick sick.

[Gemini]

Imagine a young kid being put in one of those rooms. They must feel like they have been abandoned. It's like going back in time when people knew no better. Maybe the teachers that put these kids in these rooms should have to write a detailed reason why it is being done. Maybe they will think twice about doing it.

[psiebold1]

Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo

no they don't have purpose.. its a sick and antiquated way of dealing with a situation that simply takes time to address. I am happy to say that I work for an organization that helps the mentally disabled intigrate into society and lead happy lives. It takes out of the box thinking and support, not locked in a box by yourself thinking.

Sick sick sick.

I take it that this also applies for the regular student? I guess so if it means that the kid is missing class time.

[moahunter]

Why don't we just get rid of discipline altogether and let kids do whatever they want whenever they want? They can play on their cell phones and DS's all day long at class...

So, if they do that, what is a teacher supposed to do? Send them home? Isn't that just passing the problem on?

I personally think schools are way to soft on trouble making kids, and it has got worse and worse as schools have become more and more beholden to parents who spoil their "darlings".

[edmonton daily photo]

^ Your right... lets beat some respect into them... I mean it worked so well at the residential schools!

O Fork it... Lets just beat the parents and the kids... maybe grandma too..


I'm foiling your ridiculous notion of "banning all discipline" Schools are not parents. I child misbehaves its for the parents to deal with NOT public institutions. If the child continues to act out the child should be removed from the institution and again the responsibility placed on the parents.

As for "playing on my nintendo DS".. I can tell you thanks to my smart phone and "playing on it" i Through together the entire bones of a community event, Connected the league and networked 3 bulkiness partners, set up promotions and notified the membership.. in the span of 6 hours.
Tell me how long that would have taken in 1950 which is the same area you are drawing your child rearing notions from..

I have gone away to continue to rule the world via my smart phone.... TA!

Sometimes all I can do is shake my head at you moa. I can invite ya to a few P&D meetings that you would fight right into.

[psiebold1]

Originally Posted by moahunter

Why don't we just get rid of discipline altogether and let kids do whatever they want whenever they want? They can play on their cell phones and DS's all day long at class...

So, if they do that, what is a teacher supposed to do? Send them home? Isn't that just passing the problem on?

I personally think schools are way to soft on trouble making kids, and it has got worse and worse as schools have become more and more beholden to parents who spoil their "darlings".

Time out rooms can cause more distress and sometimes more physical harm than the strap if they are not designed right, re: This case in Oswego, NY. The fact that the student is in another room without supervision can be hazardous, even if there is a secretary in the next room. That is not supervision. That is "out-of-sight; out-of-mind."

The Quiet Room before the addition of the Opportunity Rooms at Meyonohk was well designed and would not cause distress to the student. The addition of the Opportunity Rooms was, in the words of the principal:

Originally Posted by Edmonton Journal. June 1, 1993. A1 "Policies needed for 'time-out rooms' ― parent"[/quote

Loomis says he decided to have two cubicle-like rooms inside a larger quiet room adjacent to the school's general office because students were distracted if there was more than one student in the room.

. . .

"We wanted something more substantial than a cubicle and something that was safe, comfortable and quiet space that minimized distraction but wasn't viewed by the students as a reward for their actions.

(article written before the creation of the third room in 1994ish.)

Seriously, as a punishment that goes further than having just a quiet room? So he needed closet-sized spaces? Which parent can proclaim they keep their kids in a room not big enough for a janitor's closet and not expect charges?

I'm not here to press charges, I just want standards.

[Gemini]

^Yeah, I agree. If you put a child in a closet as a form of disipline you should be apprehended. It's not a question of if kids get out of line it's a matter of when and what is the best detterent. Not punishment, detterent. As for kids having cell phones etc: in the classroom. Well, they could implement a policy that the kids leave their cells etc; in a box and collect them at recess or home time. That's not hard to do. It's been proven that beating the tar out of kids does more harm than good. They tend to go on and beat the tar out of their kids. They tend to solve their problems by lashing out rather than talking it out. I suppose the quiet rooms are the modern day version of the birch.

[Titanium48]

Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo

^ Your right... lets beat some respect into them... I mean it worked so well at the residential schools!

O Fork it... Lets just beat the parents and the kids... maybe grandma too..


I'm foiling your ridiculous notion of "banning all discipline" Schools are not parents. I child misbehaves its for the parents to deal with NOT public institutions. If the child continues to act out the child should be removed from the institution and again the responsibility placed on the parents.

Nobody is advocating beating, however, some parents just refuse to accept that responsibility. Many students in behavior assistance classes have parents who either don't care or can't accept that there could possibly be anything wrong with their little darling. If the school doesn't provide them with structure and boundaries, no-one will.

[Titanium48]

Originally Posted by psiebold1

Time out rooms can cause more distress and sometimes more physical harm than the strap if they are not designed right, re: This case in Oswego, NY. The fact that the student is in another room without supervision can be hazardous, even if there is a secretary in the next room. That is not supervision. That is "out-of-sight; out-of-mind."

Agreed. Time out rooms should be actively supervised by a teacher or a TA, and students should be let out as soon as they calm down.

[edmonton daily photo]

Originally Posted by Titanium48

Nobody is advocating beating, however, some parents just refuse to accept that responsibility. Many students in behavior assistance classes have parents who either don't care or can't accept that there could possibly be anything wrong with their little darling. If the school doesn't provide them with structure and boundaries, no-one will.

Most time with parents with kids in "behavioral assistance" have mental issues of their own... Is it they are lacking responsibility - or are they lacking tools and ability to.

[Gemini]

It would be interesting if an adult stepped forward and took a school board to task for putting them in a small windowless room for punishment when they were young. Laid it on thick and say they had been pychologically damaged by it. Let them explain the reasoning for these rooms. It's not that I don't believe in discipline but putting kids in rooms and leaving them for long periods of time might make the teachers day better but it does not remedy anything for the kid.

[psiebold1]

Originally Posted by Gemini

It would be interesting if an adult stepped forward and took a school board to task for putting them in a small windowless room for punishment when they were young. Laid it on thick and say they had been pychologically damaged by it. Let them explain the reasoning for these rooms. It's not that I don't believe in discipline but putting kids in rooms and leaving them for long periods of time might make the teachers day better but it does not remedy anything for the kid.

That was what happened when I quoted the article from 1993. To be truthful, I doubt that there is any of these rooms that don't have a window and are plentiful airflow. However, size and oversight are still issues to be addressed.

[Decade]

Quiet rooms can do a lot of good for kids if they follow some basic tenants:
- Students can CHOOSE to go there if they feel themselves becoming emotional
- They should always be directly supervised by an SNTA or a teacher.


There is a purpose for quiet rooms, and I have seen schools who have awesome ones. Some are completely empty of furniture and posters and such because some students with sensory problems would find it overwhelming. Other students who are very aggressive when angry would throw the furniture around. There are also quiet rooms that are equipped with comfy furniture, relaxing music, etc. These can be great for kids if they just need a place to chill.

I also believe discipline should be in the hands of the parents, but lets face it, there are parents that feel that taking their kids DS away for one hour is suitable punishment after trying to stab a teacher with scissors. Or sometimes the parents have no idea what to do about their kid.

Quiet rooms shouldn't be used as punishment. They should be used as a place for kids to calm down. When they are calm, someone should sit with the student and discuss (Discuss, not tell) strategies that might improve the behaviour.

[Thomas Hinderks]

Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo

Most time with parents with kids in "behavioral assistance" have mental issues of their own... Is it they are lacking responsibility - or are they lacking tools and ability to.

Uh do you gentlemen understand what it takes to get a child into the programs you are talking about? The current term is B-Lab programs, but it changes regularly.

The parent evaluation? The child evaluation and requirement for a medical/psychological diagnosis?

Most of the comments you are making I would accept in relation to many "normal" classrooms but in the context you are talking...no.

[goldlotus]

These rooms are alive and well today in many schools. Sick.

[Magpie]

Yes, these rooms are alive and well. Belmead school in the west end has a jail cell/ quiet room where they keep the autistic kids who are melting down. They are not upfront with parents about its use. No window, just a peephole. No supervision, just alone in a tiny closet. One teacher in room 1 of the Interactions program likes to turn the light off, so the kids are unwillingly kept in the dark. Kids can be locked up for 30 minutes max, however many times in one day that is neccessary. Sometimes they put two kids in the closet together, although they deny this. No notification to parents when their child has been locked up. Due to a new inclusion policy, they are not supposed to do this anymore, but they have not stopped this barbaric, abusive practice. If it's illegal to do this at home, it should also be illegal in the schools.

[psiebold1]

I would have been okay if there were 15 minute or 30 minute time outs. That would have been welcome. It's when they suspend people into those timeout rooms at days at a time that are the problem and can develop other associated problems.

I guess the question is about the accountability. Do they rely on the kids to report to their parents about the time they have had to stay in those rooms or do they call the parents? Does the. . . the disability plan paper thingy (?) call for the use of such rooms? If so, does the plan also state that the teachers report to the parents how often the school uses it (either per instance, per week, per month basis)?