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Old 24-04-2012, 02:15 PM   #1
jstock
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Default Late Night Bus Routes

Here are maps showing the phases of implementation for the proposed late night bus routes.







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Last edited by jstock; 25-04-2012 at 10:09 AM.. Reason: Made bigger
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Old 24-04-2012, 02:54 PM   #2
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I'm just seeing 4 broken links
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Old 24-04-2012, 03:13 PM   #3
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I see nothing.
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Old 24-04-2012, 03:36 PM   #4
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Sorry guys. It works on my end. I switched it to JPEG and changed the host site.
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Old 24-04-2012, 03:50 PM   #5
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i appreciate the effort, but i can't really see the routes at that image size. do you have access to larger images?
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Old 24-04-2012, 05:51 PM   #6
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Zoom in
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Old 24-04-2012, 07:59 PM   #7
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Yeah bigger images please. Was the 8 included in this routes?
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Old 24-04-2012, 09:02 PM   #8
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These are not existing bus routes.
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Old 24-04-2012, 09:26 PM   #9
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I like the appeal of the city-wide grid routes.
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Old 24-04-2012, 10:05 PM   #10
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I'd like to get a look at larger versions but it looks to me like this would be a fairly good base network. Run these routes 24 hours a day.
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Old 25-04-2012, 12:14 AM   #11
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http://sirepub.edmonton.ca/sirepub/m...doctype=AGENDA

Item 6.2.
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Old 25-04-2012, 12:36 AM   #12
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^ Thank you. Those look like a nice choice of routes. Especially when they bring in Routes 3 and 7 to service all those low rises north of downtown. The route 3 (which is currently my route) is always busy with exactly those people who work as cleaners and convenience store clerks.

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Old 25-04-2012, 10:09 AM   #13
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Should be a bit bigger now.
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Old 25-04-2012, 10:50 AM   #14
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So I'm a little confused here. We had a pilot late night run with virtually no ridership that was poorly recieved and now we're thinking about rollling out several late night routes anyways.

So I ask the question what really was the purpose of the original pilot.

Clearly it wasn't really evaluative.
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Old 25-04-2012, 11:54 AM   #15
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The pilot program was taking people from one small location and taking them to a very small portion of the city. If you lived near Bonnie Doon or downtown or Mill Woods then it didn't help you at all.

This is a much more comprehensive late night program. It provides connections across the city. The two are hardly comparable.
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Old 25-04-2012, 12:01 PM   #16
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The pilot program was taking people from one small location and taking them to a very small portion of the city. If you lived near Bonnie Doon or downtown or Mill Woods then it didn't help you at all.

This is a much more comprehensive late night program. It provides connections across the city. The two are hardly comparable.
Its "nightride" Pretty logical comparable. Wait, it is the comparable.


The late night pilot "nightride" was a pilot to determine what kind of use and demand there might be for such late night scheduling.

It failed miserably with around an average of 6 riders/bus. So now the pilot somehow spurs more routes?

Again what then was the real purpose of the pilot nightride if ridership results from that were going to be entirely ignored?
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Old 25-04-2012, 12:26 PM   #17
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^ I didn't understand what ETS was hoping to prove with the single bus pilot either, but the full network makes a lot more sense. I don't get the buses paralleling the LRT though, why not just run LRT every 30 minutes all night instead?
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Old 25-04-2012, 12:28 PM   #18
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whoa, I can go drinking on Whyte and not have to take a $50 cab home?

Very interesting.
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Old 25-04-2012, 01:59 PM   #19
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Awesome! Very excited about the possibility of actually getting home on transit after work...
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Old 25-04-2012, 02:07 PM   #20
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Interupt you might need some patience heard a news report saying they will not be implementing any changes for about a year or so.
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Old 26-04-2012, 09:26 PM   #21
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I'm glad they got rid of one of the draft routes I saw. It went to 170st and 137ave. Last I checked, that is a farm field.
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Old 27-04-2012, 12:05 AM   #22
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^ That's for those who get aggressive after a few pops.
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Old 01-05-2012, 04:13 PM   #23
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Looks like the system hits every bus terminal in the city (or at least displayed on those maps) except Castledowns. Strange.
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:30 PM   #24
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I think the city should implement part of this service if the taxi drivers go on strike.
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Old 10-06-2012, 04:11 PM   #25
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With the increase in bar/pub activity downtown, I wonder if transit/LRT service could be expanded downtown.
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:30 AM   #26
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Its not cost effective to run LRT late... Buses are better.
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Old 11-06-2012, 12:23 PM   #27
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LRT already runs late. The last run arrives at Clareview at 1:41 am and the first run leaves Clareview at 5:10 am. It's not much of a gap to fill in to have 24 hours service.

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Old 11-06-2012, 11:25 PM   #28
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LRT not cost effective...so run it every 30 minutes or 45 minutes. Just run it.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:03 PM   #29
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The city is considering implementing a one-year late night transit service pilot project in Edmonton.


Global Edmonton | City to consider late night transit service
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Old 12-03-2013, 04:01 PM   #30
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With LRT running late night you cover a large percentage of the city and can maintain a better security for the passengers due to security camera's at all the stations. For late night they could have one train with one or two cars running.
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Old 12-03-2013, 05:14 PM   #31
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^I'm with ya Cowboy. That and LRT stations provide ample space for taxis.

Not sure why we're going this route. (pun NOT intended - purely accidental)
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Old 12-03-2013, 08:27 PM   #32
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We need key routes running 24h immediately. LRT should also be extended. Administration has pushed back on running the LRT later because it would disrupt maintenance work (which I think is a bit silly).
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Old 13-03-2013, 08:10 PM   #33
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Councillors concerned about late-night transit plan:

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...280/story.html
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Old 14-03-2013, 12:10 AM   #34
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I emailed Councillors@edmonton.ca about this

I guess I'm just more passionate about this... but if you would like to see this implemented I would encourage you to send a quick note of support.
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Old 14-03-2013, 12:11 AM   #35
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I emailed Councillors@edmonton.ca about this

I guess I'm just more passionate about this... but if you would like to see this implemented I would encourage you to send a quick note of support.
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Old 14-03-2013, 11:02 AM   #36
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I'm pleased that council has exercised some sensibility in turning down a project like this that is excessively expensive considering likely numbers served.

Lets fastrack the LRT, get that rolling into 4-5 quadrants of the city, and have that be the backbone of any late night service. By tackling too much at once we run some risk of not having funds for the transit priorities.
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Old 16-03-2013, 12:07 AM   #37
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I'm pleased that council has exercised some sensibility in turning down a project like this that is excessively expensive considering likely numbers served.

Lets fastrack the LRT, get that rolling into 4-5 quadrants of the city, and have that be the backbone of any late night service. By tackling too much at once we run some risk of not having funds for the transit priorities.
Travel to any large metropolitan city and you'll see late night transit operations.

Let's remember that these routes have not been tested out. The ridership numbers you cite are simply estimates, and I would argue low ones at that.
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Old 20-03-2013, 04:25 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I'm pleased that council has exercised some sensibility in turning down a project like this that is excessively expensive considering likely numbers served.

Lets fastrack the LRT, get that rolling into 4-5 quadrants of the city, and have that be the backbone of any late night service. By tackling too much at once we run some risk of not having funds for the transit priorities.
Travel to any large metropolitan city and you'll see late night transit operations.

Let's remember that these routes have not been tested out. The ridership numbers you cite are simply estimates, and I would argue low ones at that.
The numbers for night ride pilot were not estimates, they were actual rider numbers.

Presumably City Hall agrees that at this point in time the service especially at estimated price is not warranted.
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Old 21-03-2013, 02:34 PM   #39
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Night buses are needed. The pilo tin Edmonton was flawed for two fundemental reasons. One it only served one area of Edmonton from one other area. There was no network or connections. And two, the pilot was too short. It takes three years for a bus route to fully develop its expected ridership. You cannot assess any bus route in six months or one year realistically.

In Canada ___ cities have Night Buses:
Montreal - runs a network of night buses providing 24 hour coverage on the main lines
Toronto - runs Canadas largest night bus network - buses run on a network covering all of Metro Toronto with 30 minute base frequency. The Young Line runs every 7 minutes or more all night.
Vancouver - runs Night buses on a network covering Vancouver, North shore, Burnaby, Surrey, Richmond, Airport and tri-cities. Most run every 30 minute. last trip from Vancouver at 3:10am. But Richmond route (N10) is all night and several run every 15 minutes. Many late trips don't end in the suburbs until almost 5am.

For Vancouver - Not shown below are some routes that don't end until 2:30 or 3:00am. For example, the 41 along 41st Avenue runs until 2:45am. The last 320 in Surrey arrives in Langley at 3:00am and the last 106 in Burnaby arrives New Westminster at 2:20am. And of course, some suburban routes, like the 701 in Maple Ridge start running at 4:00am.


Whistler - runs buses late, with the last leaving Whistler Village at 3:10am
Prince George - runs buses late on Fridays and Saturday from downtown to the UNBC campus until 3 am.
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Old 09-12-2014, 10:41 PM   #40
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At council today phase one of the late night routes was approved and funded.

So pleased to see. 5 major routes, will run until 3 AM. Seems like we are providing some big city service, finally.

Will be curious to see the routings and frequencies.
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Old 11-12-2014, 10:13 AM   #41
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Frequency will be every 30 minutes.

Will be the mirroring of the 1, the 4, the 8, the 9, and a bus run parallel-ish to the NE LRT leg
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Old 11-12-2014, 10:40 AM   #42
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Frequency will be every 30 minutes.
Better than nothing I suppose.
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Old 11-12-2014, 11:07 AM   #43
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That's actually not bad, considering that our best routes are every 15 minutes other than a few extras at the peak of rush.
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Old 11-12-2014, 11:11 AM   #44
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I waited 22 minutes last night for a bus to take me out of Downtown down Jasper Ave in rush hour.

30 minutes in the dead of the night seems peachy.
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Old 11-12-2014, 01:06 PM   #45
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Glad to see, this, good on council!

If the project is successful, they should add a Route 5 variant to this list. That would give you late night service on parts of 118 avenue, on 127th street, and to Westmount. You could offset it 15 minutes from the 1 variant, so you'd get extra frequency between 101st and 127th street along Jasper Avenue. You might want to extend the route or add another route from Westmount north along 127 street to 167 avenue, to service the Northwest late at night.
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Old 11-12-2014, 03:22 PM   #46
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5 Variant part of phase 2 from the images at the top of this topic, Downtown, Westmount via 124 st, Northgate via 127 st/137 ave.
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Old 11-12-2014, 03:24 PM   #47
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5 Variant part of phase 2 from the images at the top of this topic, Downtown, Westmount via 124 st, Northgate via 127 st/137 ave.
Whoop, missed that, thanks kkozoriz.
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Old 11-12-2014, 06:22 PM   #48
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Looks like the new council got sucked in to resurrecting this failed experiment and putting it into actual operation. What a waste of $.

The only reason this is being done is so the city can say its putting on its big city public transit pants. Which it isn't really doing by any stretch.

Gotta say as well that every attempt is made to entirely fabricate the apparent demand for this route.

Journal for instance is quoting these numbers which were fed to them;

Quote:
About 1,900 people took a late bus to Southgate from Whyte Avenue during a three-month trial in 2012
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Counc...563/story.html


Um, that's actually 1900 total rides during the entire operation of the trial run. Why state it as 1900 users?

My first reaction is why am I being misled? Why the need for lies in propping this up?

Its the latter part that I find frustrating is that the city actually believes this service will be well used and received and even fudges what is sent off for the presses to report.

Unfortunately the numbers will be poor. Unfortunately some of us have actually been paying attention and citing what the ridership numbers actually were during the trial run. I almost wish I didn't know this and could be so easily duped.

Meanwhile funding for Lewis Estates Millwoods line I fear will be increasingly difficult with the crash of oil and drain on provincial coffers.
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Old 11-12-2014, 07:00 PM   #49
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Isn't the millwoods to downtown portion funded now?

Also, I doubt I would make much use of the late night service, but its definitely needed on certain core routes. Lots of shift work in this city.

I wouldn't consider the trial a very good indicator of how well this may or may not work, that trial only had a pretty small catchment area of riders, and for everyone else, it just became another place to catch a cab post whyte ave.
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Old 11-12-2014, 07:07 PM   #50
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Isn't the millwoods to downtown portion funded now?

Also, I doubt I would make much use of the late night service, but its definitely needed on certain core routes. Lots of shift work in this city.

I wouldn't consider the trial a very good indicator of how well this may or may not work, that trial only had a pretty small catchment area of riders, and for everyone else, it just became another place to catch a cab post whyte ave.
Verbally the commitment is there from 3 levels of govt to get this done. I'll believe it when I see it. I am worried that new economic realities could alter how this goes down.

Its somewhat alarming that a city that is hiking taxes 5% every year, that doesn't know how to fund projects already slated, and that has difficulty saying no to anything is funding such things as this.

In spirit I believe in public transit, embrace it, and can respect the sentiments expressed by Sohi in why they are making this available to such things as service industry sector.

The reality will be whether people will use it.

During the Late night trial run the common thing I heard from the city was speculation the numbers were low because people hadn't heard about it. It was so publicly out there one would have to live in a cave not to hear about it.
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Old 11-12-2014, 07:33 PM   #51
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Are you for this or against it? Has council been suckered, or are you respectful of the sentiments expressed by council in what they are trying to do with late night transit? Seeing as your recent posts contradict what ever you seem to be trying to say, there no point responding further until you clear your opinion up.
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Old 11-12-2014, 07:42 PM   #52
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Are you for this or against it? Has council been suckered, or are you respectful of the sentiments expressed by council in what they are trying to do with late night transit? Seeing as your recent posts contradict what ever you seem to be trying to say, there no point responding further until you clear your opinion up.
Nuance is fine.

Philosophically I am in favor of Public Transit expenditure given that such expenditure results in a usable system of public transit that is likely to be used.

Funding this night transit is just good dollars after bad. ETS is a pretty poor service. About the worst public transit service found in any major city in the country.

What is needed is more express routes, more hours of such and allocating ALL increased resources into that. Put more investment where greater ridership is effected. Its inexcusable for instance that one of the top bus route in the city, the #8 is often full and doesn't even stop at many stops because it can't pick up anymore passengers. Hopefully this and other main runs ares improved significantly

Frankly if I lived in Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, even Calgary, I might not own a vehicle.

So I love public transit. But not as offered in this city which really isn't time viable. I can drive my bike faster anywhere. That's the sorry truth.
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Old 11-12-2014, 07:45 PM   #53
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Journal for instance is quoting these numbers which were fed to them;

Quote:
About 1,900 people took a late bus to Southgate from Whyte Avenue during a three-month trial in 2012
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Counc...563/story.html


Um, that's actually 1900 total rides during the entire operation of the trial run. Why state it as 1900 users?
I think we can go ahead and ignore these numbers. This was not anywhere near a proper 'late night service', it was a couple of shuttle trips from Whyte Ave to Southgate to clear out the drunks faster.

Not comparable to later trips on already established mainline routes as in the current proposal.
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Old 11-12-2014, 07:55 PM   #54
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^ We'll see what happens. Another bit of misinformation was that the late buses on the respective lines are jam packed.

This also seemingly inaccurate. For instance the #8 as mentioned is often packed to capacity during peakhour runs. It seldom is on latenight runs.

Again why the misinformation?

I'd like to see some hard numbers to start justifying these expenditures. The city would have the rider numbers for the routes for different times. Why not make those available as part of the dialog in explaining this late service.

Frankly user volume on the #8 (only one I can comment on) drops right off after say 9pm. It stays up there till that time due to shopping and it being largely a Mall route.

ps the late night trial run was 6 busses each way afairc.
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Old 11-12-2014, 08:02 PM   #55
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^ But Whyte Ave to Southgat is all but useless except for a handful of people.

And as one who has waited for a bus at Telus many a night, the 8 and 15 are both very heavily used well past 9pm.

And anyway, we will NEVER have a clear idea of actual ridership numbers based on short lived pilot projects. People will not adjust their commute plans and use it unless they know it will be a steady and permanent service.

Not much you can do IMO but let it ride for at least a full year or two, and at least then they would know some proper ridership figures.

Another idea is to use the less costly 'short busses' that they deploy on some routes for the late night trips.
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Old 11-12-2014, 08:04 PM   #56
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^ We'll see what happens. Another bit of misinformation was that the late buses on the respective lines are jam packed.

This also seemingly inaccurate. For instance the #8 as mentioned is often packed to capacity during peakhour runs. It seldom is on latenight runs.

Again why the misinformation?

I'd like to see some hard numbers to start justifying these expenditures. The city would have the rider numbers for the routes for different times. Why not make those available as part of the dialog in explaining this late service.

Frankly user volume on the #8 (only one I can comment on) drops right off after say 9pm. It stays up there till that time due to shopping and it being largely a Mall route.

ps the late night trial run was 6 busses each way afairc.
There is no doubt that the peak time main routes are completely overcrowded. And council does not seem to realize the problem with "drive-bys" where the bus is too full to take on more passengers. However that does not negate the need for some basic service at night.

Edit: ETS policy is to count passengers on one day per year on "select routes". They have automatic passenger counters installed in some buses but from what I have gathered listening to Council these are not really used. So, they don't really know ridership to the level you suggest they do. It is alarming indeed.

Last edited by AAAAE; 11-12-2014 at 08:08 PM..
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Old 11-12-2014, 09:30 PM   #57
Medwards
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Another idea is to use the less costly 'short busses' that they deploy on some routes for the late night trips.
see the thing is, those buses are not really that much cheaper, when you consider one of the biggest expense to operating a bus is the driver.
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Old 11-12-2014, 11:00 PM   #58
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Short bus drivers don't make as much as regular ETS operators. Only requires a class 4 rather than class 2 license.
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Old 11-12-2014, 11:20 PM   #59
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I'd like to see a nighttime short bus from downtown to Strathcona. Do a circle route from 102 Avenue to 109 Street, south to Whyte Avenue, east to 99 Street, and north on 99 Street/Scona Road/MacDougall Hill up to 100 Street.
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