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Real-Estate & Development This forum looks at specific real estate projects and developments - past, present, and future - in the Edmonton area. Here’s where to look for updates on developments, read about new projects, suggest improvements to buildings or other projects.


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Old 22-04-2012, 10:22 PM   #1
juw544
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Default The Chinese built a 15-store hotel in less than a week!!!!

This is the crew our city need to hire. No whining about OT and long hours, no ******** and fool around. Everybody just put in solid 6*24 hr and get the job done and done right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNv13fY_3jY
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Old 22-04-2012, 10:51 PM   #2
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Cool. What they don't mention is how long it took to prefab the entire thing. If we opted for steel here it might be possible, but we tend to use reinforced concrete which has to be poured bit by bit.

That said, I'm not convinced we're the fastest or most efficient builders. I have no doubts that some jobs are extremely protracted to keep guys working as long as possible.
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Old 22-04-2012, 11:07 PM   #3
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Perhaps things take longer here so we don't end up with situations like this.

http://www.prlog.org/10273328-nearly...-in-china.html

[COLOR=#2050d0]PRLog (Press Release)[/COLOR] - Jul 04, 2009 -
A worker was killed on June 27th, around 5.30 a.m. when the 13 storey Lotus Riverside apartment building complex, still under construction and unoccupied at Lianhuanan Road in the Minhang district of Shanghai city literally fell over on its side.
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Old 22-04-2012, 11:12 PM   #4
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Did they name the hotel "Al Fal Doon"
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Old 22-04-2012, 11:19 PM   #5
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Yay! It's red and beige (stucco?) perrrrrrfect for e-town.
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Old 22-04-2012, 11:38 PM   #6
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That said, I'm not convinced we're the fastest or most efficient builders. I have no doubts that some jobs are extremely protracted to keep guys working as long as possible.
Any particular reason you think that? Every high rise I've been involved with has had massive schedule pressure from the owners/developers, general contractors and on down. Virtually all construction is fixed cost, and it doesn't exactly lower costs to intentionally drag projects out.

Impressive video to be sure, although as mentioned it doesn't tell the whole story with actual time it would have taken to prefabricate the structure (let alone design it), nor finish the interior. Nor the fact it's a horrid looking building. No question that things can be built faster in some other parts of the world due to a variety of reasons, from 24 hour construction schedules to cheap labor to limited bureaucracy and safety standards. But there's little or no reason to intentionally build something slower here.
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Old 23-04-2012, 12:57 AM   #7
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Well then fine we don't need to have a building up that fast, but how long does a 15 storey building typically take to be built here in Edmonton?

Well if not that building how about this other one built in China in just a bit longer of time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwvmr...eature=related
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Old 23-04-2012, 08:11 AM   #8
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Generally excavation and below ground foundation work takes upwards of a third of the construction schedule for high rise projects here, which is also something that you don't see in that video. Mayfair Village at 16 stories for example came up out of the ground sometime in the fall of 2010, and is essentially complete right now with occupancies sometime in the next couple weeks. And that one admittedly went slowly. It's taken the Pearl nearly a full year to get where it is right now, which is barely out of the ground.
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Old 23-04-2012, 09:04 AM   #9
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So with that said, wouldn't it be nice to have construction times cut down. How about a 15 storey building (not including foundation) built in 2 or 3 months.
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Old 23-04-2012, 09:14 AM   #10
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Tieing rebar takes forever its back breaking work, so if you have concrete floors and don't use metal decking you have to have that time to factor in, plus you have the curing time of the concrete. At best they can do is about a floor a week and that is where the floor templates are the same and the same forms can be used floor after floor.
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Old 23-04-2012, 09:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
That said, I'm not convinced we're the fastest or most efficient builders. I have no doubts that some jobs are extremely protracted to keep guys working as long as possible.
Any particular reason you think that? Every high rise I've been involved with has had massive schedule pressure from the owners/developers, general contractors and on down. Virtually all construction is fixed cost, and it doesn't exactly lower costs to intentionally drag projects out.

Impressive video to be sure, although as mentioned it doesn't tell the whole story with actual time it would have taken to prefabricate the structure (let alone design it), nor finish the interior. Nor the fact it's a horrid looking building. No question that things can be built faster in some other parts of the world due to a variety of reasons, from 24 hour construction schedules to cheap labor to limited bureaucracy and safety standards. But there's little or no reason to intentionally build something slower here.
This x 2.
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Old 23-04-2012, 01:18 PM   #12
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Tieing rebar takes forever its back breaking work, so if you have concrete floors and don't use metal decking you have to have that time to factor in, plus you have the curing time of the concrete. At best they can do is about a floor a week and that is where the floor templates are the same and the same forms can be used floor after floor.
I thought metal decking was a century old innovation that quickly became almost universally used to allow construction of concrete buildings on a tight schedule. Why build any other way?
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Old 23-04-2012, 01:56 PM   #13
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Has anyone said "It's UGLY!!" yet?

if not .. let me be the first... UGLY. no matter how fast it went up it's UGLY!
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Old 23-04-2012, 02:16 PM   #14
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Metal decking is faster but it can cost more money, plus as its not as integrated with the walls and foundation it is less blast resistant as only gravity is holding things together. For example on the Mazankowski Heart Institute they used metal decking for most of the floors except for near the boiler room, so if the boilers do explode the floor would contain the blast, whereas concrete floor could lift from the metal decking.
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Old 23-04-2012, 02:35 PM   #15
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' it is less blast resistant as only gravity is holding things together'

huh
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Old 23-04-2012, 02:48 PM   #16
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Impressive for sure..... But have to agree with previous posters about how UGLY it is and how it would fit right in with so many of Edmontons buildings.
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Old 23-04-2012, 03:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
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I thought metal decking was a century old innovation that quickly became almost universally used to allow construction of concrete buildings on a tight schedule. Why build any other way?
Most of Edmonton's residential towers are cast-in-place structural concrete, not q-deck with a concrete topping and either steel or concrete structure to support the non-structural floors. I can't really comment on the costs, timeframe, or design limitations of it but there must be a reason that most projects in Edmonton don't use it.
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Old 23-04-2012, 03:22 PM   #18
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Metal decking the concrete is poured straight on it, no reinforcing for the floor itself as the decking and underlying beams support the weight. Only the beams are tied into the walls and columns.

With a suspended slab you have lots of lots of rebar horizontally for the slab, lots vertically in the column, plus lots of L shaped peices connecting the two planes together, as the surface is rough you have a LOT of friction holding the thing together. Figure B-7 on this page sort of shows the concept
http://www.oas.org/pgdm/document/codedraw/sectionb.htm

Another view here;
http://www.builderbill-diy-help.com/...ended-slab.jpg
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Old 23-04-2012, 03:41 PM   #19
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I am surprised no mentions the fast tracked pre-built concrete floor slabs being installed at the Marriott at YEG. Its a first in Canada. Whether it results in a quality (and sound insulated) building remains to be seen. Anyone involved who can provide some insight??
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Old 23-04-2012, 03:46 PM   #20
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^ Post tension ?
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Old 23-04-2012, 06:08 PM   #21
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What specifically makes it a first? There's a ton of that kind of construction in Alberta already. 9 buildings totally about 900 suites in Fort McMurray's Timberlea area were pre-cast post tensioned concrete. That's just a single project/development.

Is there something unique about the Marriott's system?
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Old 23-04-2012, 06:19 PM   #22
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Kaos= cash not that i agree with it,
But the boilermakers just flew me in (for example) to build a specialty tank that we constructed in 20 days , that they struggled with for over 4 months on. It's costly when repair work is made and you don't hire the best of the best. I make huge money but the client gets what they pay for and ends up saving huge money in the long run.
Guys like me are getting tired of doing favors tho, and i won't be doing it much longer

I had to fire the whole crew and fly my buddy's in from Ontario just to give perspective of the scab culture in Alberta, and the lack of trade skills, many of them don't even speak good english, well try give direction to a immigrant ! it's hard and not in my sandbox,

and im also not payed to train those imigrants or children who been coddled all their life who just want the trades dollars! No use for them

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Old 23-04-2012, 06:24 PM   #23
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^ oh look, Nomandel/Dakine/Craiger/Dogkiller/Nosheep/ is back!!!!!!
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Old 23-04-2012, 07:23 PM   #24
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Quote:
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^ Post tension ?
precast concrete hollow core floor/roof slabs

http://www.dcnonl.com/article/id48510
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Old 24-04-2012, 12:53 AM   #25
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Quote:
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What specifically makes it a first? There's a ton of that kind of construction in Alberta already. 9 buildings totally about 900 suites in Fort McMurray's Timberlea area were pre-cast post tensioned concrete. That's just a single project/development.

Is there something unique about the Marriott's system?
Yup, there's a four-storey condo block in MacEwan of that construction. Built about five years ago.
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Old 25-04-2012, 09:21 PM   #26
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yeah and it was probably faling apart before they were done. I hope to hell we aren't using the chinese as a standard for any sort of construction or production.
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Old 26-04-2012, 11:18 AM   #27
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yeah and it was probably faling apart before they were done. I hope to hell we aren't using the chinese as a standard for any sort of construction or production.
Indeed.

Plus, in China builders don't have to worry as much about "silly" things like building codes, inspections, and occupational health and safety laws.
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Old 26-04-2012, 01:52 PM   #28
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Default You tube this

Cause of fatal collapse in Shanghai
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:03 AM   #29
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Goody! a 15 story hotel with the frame work of a giant "Meccano" set and the exterior that resembles "Lego"

The close-up of the framework just looked like they were bolting it together with no welding involved and there was no close-up of the exterior. It takes some time for mortar to harden properly if it was brick being used.

I did not seem to notice any plumbing involved either.

I would not believe that was done in 7 days because the video clip certainly did not have 7 days and nights present in it.

Last edited by NielCole; 01-05-2012 at 12:09 AM..
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:19 AM   #30
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^7 days in China is equivalent to 21 days here cause they literally work 24/7. They also tend to throw hundreds of workers on site at once and don't have the typical North American, 1 person working, 5 people supervising sort of attitude. So anything that can be done in parallel, is done in parallel. Yes, the construction is shoddy (typically from poor materials, design and lack of training). But the speed is attributed more towards the sheer manpower, scheduling and discipline.

We could learn something from them, and vice versa as well..
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:25 AM   #31
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For example, I watched a road being paved in Hong Kong. They have a whole string of vehicles doing all the different parts of the process. So the lead vehicle is ripping up the road and the rear vehicle is flattening the new asphalt (with vehicles/crews in between doing the other stuff). So you basically see a "train" that runs over old roads and leaves new roads in it's wake.

Here, well the paving job on the road outside my office took them about 6 months to do. Sheesh.
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:12 PM   #32
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Looking at in regards to some cases how badly modern these types of Chinese structures are (their ancient ones are phenomenal in contrast) Bragging about a 15 story hotel built in a week that will probably start to fall apart within a year is not something to look up to.

They learned all that from the Soviet era when they churned out thousands of crappy tower blocks across the USSR, and other communist countries for decades that are all now totally rundown or falling apart in former Communist states.

I'm sure it was publicised for the propaganda reasons, Even Chinese citizens do not believe these are built in any decent manner.
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Old 25-09-2012, 10:16 AM   #33
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Meet the Man Who Built a 30-Story Building in 15 Days
Lauren Hilgers - Wired
...
In late 2011, Broad built a 30-story building in 15 days; now it intends to use similar methods to erect the world’s tallest building in just seven months. Perhaps you’re already familiar with Zhang’s handiwork: On New Year’s Day 2012, Broad released a time-lapse video of its 30-story achievement that quickly went viral: construction workers buzzing around like gnats while a clock in the corner of the screen marks the time.
...
http://www.wired.com/design/2012/09/...kyscraper/all/

The video can be found here;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=Hdpf-MQM9vY

Last edited by sundance; 25-09-2012 at 10:22 AM..
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