2012 local music festivals

[Sonic Death Monkey]

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...ky-sonic-boom/

* Boonstock, a three-day rock and electronic camp-out near Gibbons, will announce its lineup on Wednesday, Feb. 29.

Last year’s edition was the festival’s biggest one yet – with headliners such as A Perfect Circle, Sublime with Rome, and Three Days Grace. Early-bird tickets are sold out to this year’s edition, which runs June 29 to July 1

* Open Sky Music Festival should be ready to reveal its partial roster in early March, according to publicist Natalie Harper.

The island, rock, roots, surf and reggae celebration, now in its third year at Hawrelak Park, will take place June 8 to 10 – more than two months earlier than usual.

There’s no firm announce date for Sonic Boom, but it should be soon, based on a message posted on the festival’s Facebook page.

Last year’s Boom was a bit of a bust – what with lackluster or predictable headliners (Jane’s Addiction, Metric, Social Distortion, Cake) and a dark, echoey venue (Edmonton Expo Centre). The event, which is usually set up in the parking lot of Northlands Grounds, was moved indoors because of weather concerns. As it turned out, the day of Boom – Sept. 4 — was sunny and warm.

[Marcel Petrin]

Here's to hoping Boonstock continues to grow in to a premiere rock/alternative music festival for Alberta, and that Sonic Boom is less of a complete disaster this year. Last year's was easily the worst music festival I have been to.

[Komrade]

Lets not forget Hip Hop in the Park coming back for year 5!!

[Alex.L]

Sled Island in Calgary just announced their headliners

Feist, Andrew W.K, Stephen Malkmus & The Jicks, Thurston Moore (of Sonic Youth), The Hold Steady, Timbre Timbre, Archers of Loaf, & Grimes

Maybe we'll see some spillover.

[Marcel Petrin]

Boonstock delayed their lineup announcement till the 7th of March to firm up a supposedly huge addition. It'll be interesting to see what they have lined up.

[Alex.L]

very curious about what Boonstock has in store this year. Gotta think they made a killing last year with A Perfect Circle.

[Marcel Petrin]

I heard Red Hot Chili Peppers was the headliner, but that wasn't from any sort of a credible source. I don't think anyway.

[edmontonenthusiast]

I certainly hope we have some spillover from Sled Island or something of equivalent quality. Might be a good opportunity to visit Cowtown.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Billy Talentless as the headliner makes this kinda meh...

[Alex.L]

The EDM acts are pretty stellar, but the rig rock contingent will keep me far away from Gibbons on Canada Day long weekend.

[brett-]

All of the DJs look FANTASTIC!! I am super into almost all of them. However as Ander puts it, the 'rig rock' part makes me shudder. 2 completely different genres and types of fans. Kind of an odd juxtaposition. Oh well, means they will almost for sure sell out.
I would think of going to see Avicii, Kaskade, Afrojack, Crystal Method, Tommy Trash,,but the crowd that usually goes would put me off a bit.. I will be in Thailand for Canada Day Long anyways so I don't have to agonize whether or not to go.

[Marcel Petrin]

Pretty let down myself, but with festivals like this often the lineup is secondary to the overall event. I only went for Saturday last year, and while I only particularly wanted to see APC and USS, had a great time regardless.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Maybe eventually it will be a DJ/electronic music festival, if the audience demand is there. All they need to do is show up for the DJ acts, then hit the beer tent when the rig rock acts are on!

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Interstellar Rodeo

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...s-in-edmonton/

Controversial Irish singer-songwriter Sinead O’Connor, soundtrack composer Randy Newman and country-rock veterans Blue Rodeo will headline Edmonton’s newest music festival — Interstellar Rodeo.

The three-day affair, which will specialize in Americana and roots music, kicks up its heels July 27 to 29 at the Heritage Ampitheatre in Hawrelak Park.

Folk-rock chameleon Hawksley Workman, string band Carolina Chocolate Drops and two former Edmonton residents — singer-songwriter Richard Buckner and blues-punk Michael Rault will also perform.

About 4,000 weekend passes will be available, starting Monday, via sixshooterrecords.com. Early-bird prices start at $139 for adults, $83 for youth and seniors, $25 for children (from 6 to 12 years old).

[Alex.L]

what a strange strange lineup

[AAAAE]

Elements?

elementsfest.com

[Alex.L]

[Sonic Death Monkey]

What an astonishingly mediocre lineup for Sonic Boom.

[Alex.L]

Kicks the crap out of any other Sonic Boom or Boonstock.

[Chmilz]

Wow, our festivals are where bands that lost relevance 5 years ago come to die. All are sponsored by Budweiser, have rigrocket hookups, and a daycare for single moms to drop their no-daddy babies off while they get daydrunk.

[Alex.L]

^pretty dramatic, Chmilz, considering this one isn't sponsored by Budweiser, doesn't have 'rigrocket hookups' (whatever those are), and definitely doesn't have any sort of daycare.

[Chmilz]

Boonstock, mostly. Sonic Boom for the last couple years was very much like that. The lineup this year is... better?... but the headliners are still 3rd rate and lacking relevance at best.

[Alex.L]

I disagree. Linkin Park have sold about 50 Million records worldwide. I can't think of a bigger band that hasn't played here before. They're about to release a new album, which means that they've taken some time off recently, but they're still definitely not '3rd rate and lacking relevance'.

They were rumoured to headline a night at Coachella. This is a huge deal for a 1-day festival in only it's 4th year.

Incubus, yeah, they're pretty much a nostalgia band at this point, but they've put out some rather big songs in recent years. They're definitely not at the peak of their career, but still a name that will draw a solid crowd.

Silversun Pickups are playing major festivals all over the place in a subheadliner role. Considering 3rd from the top last year was Social Distortion, I'd say this is a far more relevant top end than last year.

After that it's all buzzbands who fill the quota for keeping the lineup fresh.

We're not talking about ZZ Top at Stage 13 here.

[Chmilz]

Maybe I'm justed choked that the last Linkin Park album only had 7 minutes worth of good music on it.

Someone recently referred to hell as being a place where Incubus was playing 24/7. Silversun Pickups are a failed effort to capture the magic of Smashing Pumpkins, although they were a good sleep aid until Bon Iver took top sedative position. Young, Fun, and Joy are all ok, they have their followers, but not my cup of tea.

[Alex.L]

Understandable. Not every lineup is for everybody.

I don't think I even listened to the last Linkin Park album aside from whatever singles were released. I'm excited to see them for nostalgic reasons, and because I know they put on a hell of a show because I've seen one or two of their live DVDs. Incubus definitely has some painfully blah songs, but they also have a pretty extensive catalog and have been around long enough to know how to put together a good setlist. Not worried at all. Silversun Pickups are a whole different animal live. I'd consider myself a big fan, so I'm biased.

Basically what I'm saying here is that this lineup could have been picked by hitting shuffle on my ipod. They won't have any problem selling out this year.

[Marcel Petrin]

I think it's a pretty decent lineup, personally. Incubus used to be awesome (Enjoy Incubus, Fungus Amongus, SCIENCE), but unfortunately everything past their first couple releases has been pretty terrible, although A Crow Left Of The Murder was a nice throwback in a lot of ways.

My issue with it last year had nothing to do with the lineup, and everything to do with the absolutely horrendous venue, sound quality, beer gardens, and vendor service. I would imagine John McCrea choked the sound techs after his show, the first song or two repeatedly had squealing feedback, which I have NEVER seen/heard at a professional concert before.

[Alex.L]

Yeah this year they're really pushing the fact that it'll be outside rain or shine, as any concert festival should be.

I really wish they could come to an agreement with Telus Field and the surrounding community. That would be the ideal venue for this festival.

[Chmilz]

If it indeed does stay outdoor, I might even be tempted to go. Indoor = not a chance in hell, for the same reason I quit going to EEC and Shaw shows - the venues are simply too awful and not worth throwing away my money.

[Alex.L]

Agreed.

I know this is off-topic, but I just watched the video of Snoop Dogg/Dr. Dre's set at Coachella where they were joined onstage by Tupac (at least a very realistic hologram of Tupac). It's chilling.

[Chmilz]

^Reanimation never pans out the way it's supposed to. Look at the Orville Redenbacher commercials as a prime example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcn4p213Zg8

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Does the Sonic the radio station even play Linkin Park apart from "In The End" over and over?

You guys are right about different tastes. Maybe I'm now one of these old farts who decries the music of today, but to me, Silversun and Incubus is typical bland radio fodder for stations like Sonic and The Bear. I've never liked nu-metal/rap-rock like Linkin Park - about the only band related to this genre I can tolerate is Rage Against The Machine, but even they can be hard to take in large doses.

Now a band like RATM headlining Sonic or Boonstock would truly be impressive!

[Alex.L]

Sonic plays a few Linkin Park songs. I know they pushed a single or two off their last CD pretty hard.

I think a lot of people just have completely unrealistic expectations for local festivals like this. We'll never see Radiohead or RATM or any 'tier-1' bands headlining these shows unless someone with ridiculously deep pockets feels like giving us a gift. Foo Fighters were rumoured for last year's Sonic Boom in lieu of their headlining show at Rexall, but that fell through (probably due to money).

[Alex.L]

Originally Posted by Chmilz

^Reanimation never pans out the way it's supposed to. Look at the Orville Redenbacher commercials as a prime example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcn4p213Zg8

no no, the tupac thing was really well done I thought. They didn't have him namedropping twitter or anything. Just a quick "what up Coachella!!!" and then right into the songs.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Originally Posted by Ander

We'll never see Radiohead or RATM or any 'tier-1' bands headlining these shows unless someone with ridiculously deep pockets feels like giving us a gift.

Rogers?

[Alex.L]

Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey

Rogers?

Who do you think is already behind it? It does bode well for us that they're coordinating with X-Fest in Calgary finally though. Maybe one day there will be a few more dates on there and they'll be able to attract some bigger names.

One off shows are very very pricy, especially if a band is not already touring.

[edmontonenthusiast]

Linkin Park? Really? Utter trash headliners for both Boonstock and Sonic Boom. I'd have thought they'd pick something more alt/indie-trendy. Certainly not some overdone top 40 radio-friendly rock crap. Wasn't Jane's Addiction last years headliner? Something like Arcade Fire, Animal Collective, Feist, Modest Mouse, Florence and the Machine, Metric, or Dinosaur Jr is what I was thinking/hoping. Meh.

[Alex.L]

Originally Posted by edmontonenthusiast

Linkin Park? Really? Utter trash headliners for both Boonstock and Sonic Boom. I'd have thought they'd pick something more alt/indie-trendy. Certainly not some overdone rock crap. Wasn't Jane's Addiction last years headliner? Something like Arcade Fire, Animal Collective, Feist, Florence and the Machine, Metric, or Dinosaur Jr is what I was thinking/hoping. Meh.

I'd have loved to see Arcade Fire on the lineup. They haven't played here in a long time. Completely skipped Edmonton due to a scheduling issue on their Suburbs tour. Florence & The Machine would have been a viable option too. They're pretty busy on the festival circuit this year, but they're scheduled to play Reading & Leeds days before X-Fest and Sonic Boom, which would make them considerably more expensive to get.

Animal Collective, Feist and Dinosaur Jr would have to be played on Sonic for them to be considered. Metric was 2nd after Jane's Addiction last year.

Moral of the story here is that it's not as easy as it may seem to secure top of the line talent.

**Edit** Modest Mouse is a band I've personally been hammering the DJs at Sonic to bring in for this festival, or for their own show. They'd be an amazing headliner.

[Chmilz]

^I wish we could get any sort of A-list new band/indie into our festivals.

I've been super into Florence, Sleigh Bells, and Neon Indian lately. Also have a massive renewed love for anything Jack White. We see some of these on tour, but our festivals tend to get the crumbs.

[Alex.L]

I'd love to see a big multi-day festival (even if it has a 'Bear Day' and a 'K-Rock Day') put on somewhere other than a field. Ideally right in the river valley (Telus Field/Rossdale/Kinsmen for kind of a Lollapalooza meets SXSW vibe) with a little critical mass so we can actually attract the bands that people aren't sick of seeing.

There is far too much red tape to get through for that to actually happen, and even if someone were able to do it they'd have to have enough support in the city and surrounding area to sell the number of tickets they'd need to sell in order to make it a viable venture.

[Komrade]

Linkin Park! Swag!! Im going!!!

[Chmilz]

Whatever it takes so that I never see Finger 11 listed as a headliner ever again.

[IanO]

I'd go just to see Linkin

[edmontonenthusiast]

^ Sarcasm? I can't tell.

Originally Posted by Ander

I'd have loved to see Arcade Fire on the lineup. They haven't played here in a long time. Completely skipped Edmonton due to a scheduling issue on their Suburbs tour. Florence & The Machine would have been a viable option too. They're pretty busy on the festival circuit this year, but they're scheduled to play Reading & Leeds days before X-Fest and Sonic Boom, which would make them considerably more expensive to get.

Animal Collective, Feist and Dinosaur Jr would have to be played on Sonic for them to be considered. Metric was 2nd after Jane's Addiction last year.

Moral of the story here is that it's not as easy as it may seem to secure top of the line talent.

**Edit** Modest Mouse is a band I've personally been hammering the DJs at Sonic to bring in for this festival, or for their own show. They'd be an amazing headliner.

They don't play Dinosaur Jr or Feist on Sonic? That sucks. Admittedly, I don't listen to much radio, so I wouldn't know.

I know it isn't easy to secure quality headliners (and other acts), but not to pull the Calgary card again, look at Sled Island. I'd argue Edmonton is more artsy and would have be even more likely to be able to support something like that.

I just thought of another great group, though I don't know if they're "big" enough to headline something like Sonic Boom: Rural Alberta Advantage. I know they play them on Sonic and they'd be (sorta not really) local.

[Alex.L]

Definitely not big enough to headline, but I fully expected them to be on the lineup this year. Shocked that they weren't, to be honest.

Sled Island is something that definitely could have worked in Edmonton, but it once again comes down to the can-do attitude and being supportive when others have it. Some Edmontonians tried to make a go of an Edmonton version called SOS-Fest (Sounds of Old Strathcona), but it didn't work out due mostly to lackluster numbers.

It's a shame really, because it was a fun time. It was even sponsored by Steamwhistle and had tons of buy-in from the many bars and other venues on Whyte.

[Replacement]

Linkin, Buckcherry, Incubus etc. I'm old and these read like dinosaur acts. Last year Janes addiction?

May as well resurrect the Guess Who. Promoters seem to have this market pegged as so into 10-20yrs ago baseline mundane acts.

Never seem to get acts like this here:

The Kills, The Dead Weathers, Sleigh Bells(actually I think they were at Starlite), Neon Indian, CSS, St Vincent.(saw her in Calgary only)

At least The Black Keys and Arctic Monkeys are playing at Rexall.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Replacement: Sonic Boom reflects the playlist of Sonic the radio station, which is pretty much a nostalgia radio station now. Sonic overplaying 20-year-old songs by Nirvana is no different from K-97 or The Bear playing "You Shook Me All Night Long" on the hour every hour.

[Alex.L]

Linkin Park and Incubus are about to put out new records, just as Jane's Addiction did last year.

It's not like we're talking about Trooper here.

[Chmilz]

Originally Posted by Replacement

Never seem to get acts like this here:

The Kills, The Dead Weathers, Sleigh Bells(actually I think they were at Starlite), Neon Indian, CSS, St Vincent.(saw her in Calgary only)

At least The Black Keys and Arctic Monkeys are playing at Rexall.

Sleigh Bells and Neon Indian did a gig together at Starlight last year.

Blew.
My.
Mind.

Sleigh Bells were a sensory mega-assault in all the best ways.

Kills would be awesome too. Neon Indian plays at Starlight again on Apr 30, I got my tix!

[Alex.L]

The Dead Weather would be sweet, but Jack White is currently ruling the world with his solo stuff, so it could be a while before you see them.

[Replacement]

Originally Posted by Chmilz

Sleigh Bells and Neon Indian did a gig together at Starlight last year.

Blew.
My.
Mind.

Sleigh Bells were a sensory mega-assault in all the best ways.

Kills would be awesome too. Neon Indian plays at Starlight again on Apr 30, I got my tix!

Yeah, wife and I were in Vancouver and sadly managed to miss that show. Sleigh bells, played with CSS, AND Neon Indian I believe in Toronto, would've been a good show too. 3 great acts imo.

[Replacement]

Originally Posted by Ander

The Dead Weather would be sweet, but Jack White is currently ruling the world with his solo stuff, so it could be a while before you see them.

Jack White owns music. What can you say?

I grew up to all the the rock and roll greats but Jack White is a god.

Anything he touches is gold.

[Alex.L]

I think I heard that he's playing Dead Weather, White Stripes, and Raconteurs songs in his solo shows. I'd bet we'll see him come through town sometime in the next year.

[Replacement]

Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey

Replacement: Sonic Boom reflects the playlist of Sonic the radio station, which is pretty much a nostalgia radio station now. Sonic overplaying 20-year-old songs by Nirvana is no different from K-97 or The Bear playing "You Shook Me All Night Long" on the hour every hour.

Yeah I'm not very familiar with Sonic. I don't like listening to any heavy rotation station.
Sometimes I think they have a 100 songs to play and thats it.

Ander: Yeah, Jack White playing all his backlog incarnations would be great. I would definitely want to see that show.

[Terry_H]

Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey

Maybe eventually it will be a DJ/electronic music festival, if the audience demand is there. All they need to do is show up for the DJ acts, then hit the beer tent when the rig rock acts are on!

Elements Music Festival is next Friday and Saturday at the Expo Centre... first of its kind in Western Canada!

http://elementsfest.com/GFX/Artists/entire_lineup.jpg

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Originally Posted by Ander

Linkin Park and Incubus are about to put out new records, just as Jane's Addiction did last year.

It's not like we're talking about Trooper here.

Hey, you want Trooper, you got 'em!
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/enter...982/story.html

[Alex.L]

I'd like to see the organizers of these festivals join forces in order to make one giant can't miss festival.

Just from Interstellar Rodeo, Sonic Boom, Rock Fest and Elements we'd have:

Linkin Park
Blue Oyster Cult
Incubus
Calvin Harris
Pendulum
Silversun Pickups
April Wine
Trooper
Sinead O'Connor
Young The Giant
Wolfgang Gartner
LP
Prism
Streetheart
Blue Rodeo
Randy Newman
The Joy Formidable
Mutemath
Fun.
and about 20 other DJ/EDM acts.

And that's keeping Folkfest/Boonstock/EdFest/etc separate.

Spread it out over 3 days and at a couple different venues. Share stage and venue set-up/tear-down/permits/security/etc charges and just make it work rather than everybody paying for their own show, having their own brand, and fighting for a small piece of the pie.

Or better yet, pool talent resources (i.e. $$$) and split the number of acts equally, then try to make the set times work as best you can.

DIVERSITY IS NOT A BAD THING, PEOPLE.

[Chmilz]

I doubt it would sell worth beans, but I'd love to see a better European industrial/electronic scene with the occasional festival here. I think Montreal has a smaller festival each year, but that's about as big as it gets in Canada.

Sadly, we used to be "on the map" in the industrial/electronic circle via New City, but that cratered when they moved. We'll never see any of the big hitters from Europe over here (although doing some music travel in Europe appeals to me greatly).

[Alex.L]

Osheaga is a huge festival in Montreal. Not Reading/Leeds big, but still pretty big in terms of North American festivals.

[Chmilz]

More like the Kinetic festival. Lineup last year was amazing, before and after bands dropped out and replacements were found. I wish I could have gone.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Sinead O'Connor cancels appearance at Interstellar Rodeo

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/enter...300/story.html

[EscoffierLivesOn]

What I would like to see is the Folk Fest attract some "bigger" acts i.e. The Arcade Fire, one of these years.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Originally Posted by AAAAE

Elements?

elementsfest.com

Enjoy it while you can...

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/6526368/story.html

EDMONTON - Organizers of the Elements Music Festival say city officials have given them such a hard time that it is unlikely they will stage another in Edmonton.

Billed as the largest event of its kind in Western Canada, the show is expected to attract 12,000 electronic music lovers to the Northlands Expo Centre on both Friday and Saturday. Promoters were forced to seek a court order to allow liquor to be sold, and on Thursday they complained they were being asked to pay $145,000 for security without ever receiving a detailed bill.

[Alex.L]

What a pain in the ***.

Keep outlawing these events and they're just going to grow in popularity. EDM is hitting the mainstream HARD. These artists are starting to win Grammy awards and headline major festivals all over the world, yet here in Edmonton we're worried that people are going to drink at the show.

The drinking isn't the issue here, it's the drugs and the combination of the two. By trying to stop the sales of alcohol, the illegal sale and consumption of drugs will only increase.

This is like cutting off your foot because you're afraid you'll get a blister.

[Replacement]

Originally Posted by Ander

What a pain in the ***.

Keep outlawing these events and they're just going to grow in popularity. EDM is hitting the mainstream HARD. These artists are starting to win Grammy awards and headline major festivals all over the world, yet here in Edmonton we're worried that people are going to drink at the show.

The drinking isn't the issue here, it's the drugs and the combination of the two. By trying to stop the sales of alcohol, the illegal sale and consumption of drugs will only increase.

This is like cutting off your foot because you're afraid you'll get a blister.

I'm having trouble understanding your take. The mix of Alcohol and Ecstacy is one of the worst drug combinations out there. So why not just eliminate the easy one, alcohol, at the rave?

You even acknowledge the combination problem.

Plus if you've missed it theres been a rash of people dying from taking bad Ecstacy over Western Canada this year. Why wouldn't there be trepidation, worry, and concerns. I wouldn't even want to touch this from a liability pov.

Rather than sell alcohol have an excess of free water bottles for distribution everywhere during the event. Selling alcohol at a rave is asking for medical problems, overdoses, chaotic behavior isn't it?

[Replacement]

Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey

Sinead O'Connor cancels appearance at Interstellar Rodeo

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/enter...300/story.html

Wasn't she also a headliner at Calgary and Edmonton Folk Fests? I know Calgary for sure.

Big blow for the promoters. Really the only reason I'd consider going to Interstellar is Sinead.

Admire her honesty about her condition. So many times in the world these cancellations are "for undisclosed reasons"

[Komrade]

Hip Hop in the Park 2012

Now in its 5th year. In support of Hip Hop Appreciation Week (as declared by the UN) the Hip Hop in the Park crew will be running events from May 12 - May 19th!

May 12: Hip Hop Art and Fashion Show - Remedy Cafe
May 14: Town Hall Forum - Stanley A Milner Library
May 15: Rouge Poetry Night - Rouge Lounge
May 15: HHitP Battle Of The Beasts - Crown Pub
May 16: Slam Cypher - Venue TBA
May 17: Turntable Choir - Naked Cafe
May 18: Ihuman Music Appreciation Night - iHuman
May 18: Hip Hop in the Dark - The Wearhouse Nightclub & Lounge
May 19: Hip Hop in the Park - Louise McKinney Park

I encourage all my C2E peeps to at least check out Hip Hop in the Park. Its an All Ages Family Friendly event. Always hundreds of people out every year.

And your favorite C2E poster, me, will be headling the show with my brother (Brothers Grim)

Come out and support!

[Alex.L]

Originally Posted by Replacement

I'm having trouble understanding your take. The mix of Alcohol and Ecstacy is one of the worst drug combinations out there. So why not just eliminate the easy one, alcohol, at the rave?

You even acknowledge the combination problem.

Plus if you've missed it theres been a rash of people dying from taking bad Ecstacy over Western Canada this year. Why wouldn't there be trepidation, worry, and concerns. I wouldn't even want to touch this from a liability pov.

Rather than sell alcohol have an excess of free water bottles for distribution everywhere during the event. Selling alcohol at a rave is asking for medical problems, overdoses, chaotic behavior isn't it?

All 12,000 guests are not going to be on drugs. It's pretty clear that alcohol doesn't kill people under normal circumstances (unless they decide it's a good idea to drive). So why should we outlaw alcohol at these events rather than beef up security and make it as drug free as possible?

At the end of May there is an all-ages 4 day concert festival happening just outside of Seattle. They have both a dance tent (full of these same artists) as well as main stage dance music headliners (capacity of the main stage area is around 30,000 people). These acts will be playing at the end of a 13hr day outside in the arid desert sun.

They have always sold alcohol at this event, and there has never been a death that I'm aware of.

Meanwhile in Edmonton, city of overly concerned hypochondriacs, we've got a promoter putting on a 12,000 person festival indoors with increased security, medics, etc. and we're freaking out because someone might drink a few vodka/red bulls and need medical attention.

I'm not advocating for drug use here. Far from it. I'm just saying that the farther underground we push these events, the more unsafe they'll become. Maybe instead of denying them a liquor license they should be required to hire bartenders who are actually certified by Pro-Serve or whatever, and heavily fine them for overserving or serving to anybody who appears under the influence of drugs.

[Replacement]

Originally Posted by Ander

All 12,000 guests are not going to be on drugs. It's pretty clear that alcohol doesn't kill people under normal circumstances (unless they decide it's a good idea to drive). So why should we outlaw alcohol at these events rather than beef up security and make it as drug free as possible?

At the end of May there is an all-ages 4 day concert festival happening just outside of Seattle. They have both a dance tent (full of these same artists) as well as main stage dance music headliners (capacity of the main stage area is around 30,000 people). These acts will be playing at the end of a 13hr day outside in the arid desert sun.

They have always sold alcohol at this event, and there has never been a death that I'm aware of.

Meanwhile in Edmonton, city of overly concerned hypochondriacs, we've got a promoter putting on a 12,000 person festival indoors with increased security, medics, etc. and we're freaking out because someone might drink a few vodka/red bulls and need medical attention.

I'm not advocating for drug use here. Far from it. I'm just saying that the farther underground we push these events, the more unsafe they'll become. Maybe instead of denying them a liquor license they should be required to hire bartenders who are actually certified by Pro-Serve or whatever, and heavily fine them for overserving or serving to anybody who appears under the influence of drugs.

First of all anybody serving alcohol at this event would HAVE to be Pro-Serve certified but which is a bs certification anyways that is unlikely to make much difference.
Also with the actual online certification the exam is an reality an open book test and its easy to get anybody, for instance somebody that already studied the manual, to just take the 30min test for you. So Proserve certification means nothing.

Plus you still haven't explained to me whats so "hypochondriacal" about the several deaths from Ecstacy that have occurred in WC recently and that could even occur with 12K people raving and an audience that tends to like Ecstacy. That seems to be just real valid concern your ranting aside.

Finally how do you stop the Ecstacy from coming into the event or from celebrants pre-using (and not yet peaking) prior to the event? Skill testing questions?

Seems like the easiest thing to control is the alcohol and with an event where Ecstacy will be in common use(are you really denying this?) it just seems like good common sense to limit alcohol.

What I find really unfortunate is that the easiest drug to detect, Marijuana, and the most harmless, is the one that is being eradicated and with declining use among young people who then turn more to other recreational substances. But thats a whole other can of worms of course.

[Alex.L]

Yep, punish the people who aren't on drugs. Don't bother arresting people for selling the illegal and possibly dangerous drugs. Just make the environment as vanilla as you possibly can so the people who usually would be drinking a highball or a beer will be tempted to do the possibly dangerous drugs.

SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT PLAN.

Just as an aside, I'm pretty sure none of the tainted ecstacy deaths had anything to do with alcohol. In fact,

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01...c-and-alberta/
“The risk is outrageous — it’s so high for death and injury,” Brideaux said. “It doesn’t matter if you’re a regular user of recreational drugs or a first-time user, what has been occurring is that one dose can be fatal. It’s a total roll of the dice.” - EMS Spokesman Stuart Brideaux.

So essentially what we're saying by shutting down alcohol sales is that since people are dying from a completely unrelated cause, we're going to have a kneejerk reaction just so the public thinks we actually know what's going on. The alcohol issue here is a red herring

[Marcel Petrin]

I'm kind of in the middle on the Elements thing. On the one hand I don't think that banning similar events is going to make the problem go away. They'll just go underground. On the other hand, the promoters were making some incredibly asinine comments yesterday complaining that they are held to a much higher standard than say, the Edmonton Folk Fest which has similar numbers of people.

That's an idiotic thing to say. I've been to both kinds of events, and not once have I ever seen a single problem at Folk Fest (and quite honestly, I spend most of my time in the beer gardens there). Nothing. Meanwhile, raves are well known for violence, sexual assault, and overdoses. That Journal link above mentions that there were at least 7 OD's and potentially 14 sexual assaults at the last event at the Shaw out of 5,000 people.

The fact that they would publicly question why they are being held to a higher standard than Folk Fest doesn't say much good about them, truth be told. Do you think that Oil City might perhaps employ more security than say, the Elephant and Castle?

[Alex.L]

7 people OD - > ban all similar events
people get shot at a bar - > suspend license for 2 weeks and re-open

[Replacement]

Originally Posted by Ander

Yep, punish the people who aren't on drugs. Don't bother arresting people for selling the illegal and possibly dangerous drugs. Just make the environment as vanilla as you possibly can so the people who usually would be drinking a highball or a beer will be tempted to do the possibly dangerous drugs.

SOUNDS LIKE A GREAT PLAN.

Just as an aside, I'm pretty sure none of the tainted ecstacy deaths had anything to do with alcohol. In fact,

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01...c-and-alberta/
“The risk is outrageous — it’s so high for death and injury,” Brideaux said. “It doesn’t matter if you’re a regular user of recreational drugs or a first-time user, what has been occurring is that one dose can be fatal. It’s a total roll of the dice.” - EMS Spokesman Stuart Brideaux.

So essentially what we're saying by shutting down alcohol sales is that since people are dying from a completely unrelated cause, we're going to have a kneejerk reaction just so the public thinks we actually know what's going on. The alcohol issue here is a red herring

Not sure what you're even stating there other than entirely distorting my take. I never once stated don't try to police Ecstacy coming into the event only how they were going to go about that.

As far as Alcohol and Ecstacy any source you want to look up will detail the bad drug interaction side effects of this combination that is potentially furthered with unreliable Ecstacy/MDMA dosage. The fact here is that risk of death is increased with unreliable dosage and this compounded by Alcohol. How you could come to any other conclusion than that is a mystery. Read up on any drug compendium or source you want. Ectasy+Alcohol=bad idea.

Ecstacy is the drug of choice at this nature of event.

[Alex.L]

The deaths that you're using to justify banning alcohol from the event are not alcohol related, so banning alcohol is a do-nothing kneejerk reaction. A kneejerk reaction that is making our city look like too much of a hassle for concert/event promoters to bother with in the future.

[Replacement]

Originally Posted by Ander

7 people OD - > ban all similar events
people get shot at a bar - > suspend license for 2 weeks and re-open

You're just ranting at this point. No event is being banned, the event is being held to careful scutiny, security, and evaluation due to clear precedent problems.

I just watched the interview with the promoter. If anything he looks nervous about his own event. For sure he'll be blaming the city and Northlands(and already is) if further events don't occur but I'd wonder whether his own trepidation would be the reason if anything unfortunate unfolds this weekend.

As well this is certainly not a local only issue. The City of Vancouver has been cracking down on raves of all sorts for at least a decade in some cases forcing more of an underground movement but really limiting the events and activities.

In anycase good luck to all the young people at the event and a wish for a happy and safe time had by all this weekend.

[Replacement]

Originally Posted by Ander

The deaths that you're using to justify banning alcohol from the event are not alcohol related, so banning alcohol is a do-nothing kneejerk reaction. A kneejerk reaction that is making our city look like too much of a hassle for concert/event promoters to bother with in the future.

You can keep repeating this. Or you can properly inform yourself of Alcohol-Ecstacy interaction side effects/precautions.

Personally I don't think its a bad thing that peoples safety is being carefully evaluated and monitored and policed. With an appropriate proportion of expense paid by the promoter.

Really I applaud the due dillgence being applied here. Well done.

[NielCole]

Interesting, while Edmonton is hosting the huge Electronic Music Festival here this weekend, Calgary is having the huge Calgary Comic Book Sc-Fi (Comicon type) Convention this weekend as well,

We get the ravers and Cowtown gets the nerds. The most dangerous place in the province this weekend will be on the QEII with traffic heading in droves in both directions.

[Alex.L]

Originally Posted by Replacement

You can keep repeating this. Or you can properly inform yourself of Alcohol-Ecstacy interaction side effects/precautions.

Personally I don't think its a bad thing that peoples safety is being carefully evaluated and monitored and policed. With an appropriate proportion of expense paid by the promoter.

Really I applaud the due dillgence being applied here. Well done.

I'll keep repeating it because you're propping up your alcohol +ecstacy argument by pointing to the tainted ecstacy deaths as some sort of justification and simply ignoring the FACT that the two are unrelated.

I firmly believe that banning alcohol sales at this particular event will only serve to increase the amount of 'first-time' ecstacy users, which is much more dangerous than simply letting them drink.

There will always be people who push the limits, and while I'm not condoning it, I'm also not prepared to submit that taking legal alcohol sales out of the equation will somehow make this a safer environment.

[Replacement]

Originally Posted by Ander

I'll keep repeating it because you're propping up your alcohol +ecstacy argument by pointing to the tainted ecstacy deaths as some sort of justification and simply ignoring the FACT that the two are unrelated.

I firmly believe that banning alcohol sales at this particular event will only serve to increase the amount of 'first-time' ecstacy users, which is much more dangerous than simply letting them drink.

There will always be people who push the limits, and while I'm not condoning it, I'm also not prepared to submit that taking legal alcohol sales out of the equation will somehow make this a safer environment.

As long as you continue to reduce my take to only being about the deaths (which was never my whole argument in the first place) you will apparently refuse to look at the actual information on alcohol/Ecstacy combinations which is unfortunate. Those that have attempted to prevent alcohol sales at this event I'm sure have looked at the combination side effects which are well documented.

Its ****** I guess if a specific event you like doesn't have access to alcohol but then again if revelers that attend such events conducted themselves better in past events then there wouldn't be this problem.

Large raves have been on a shortleash for a longtime and across several jurisdictions.

The promoter suggesting that they are being unfairly treated as compared to say Folk Festivals and their much more relaxed, problem free vibe, is absolutely ridiculous.

To be clear the promoters are getting this level of circumspection because of the nature of the event, as they should.

[Marcel Petrin]

Originally Posted by Ander

7 people OD - > ban all similar events
people get shot at a bar - > suspend license for 2 weeks and re-open

That's not what I said at all. What I said was that I have very little faith in the promoter, who seem to have a complete lack of understanding as to why they face so much resistance from venues, the city, police, and community. If they want to continue having the events, they need to take a step back and realize that their events do place a large strain on those mentioned, and take better steps to mitigate the problems they cause.

Not whine that they're being ganged up on. They ARE being ganged up on, and there's plenty of good reasons for it. I can't think of any other events that have the scale of problems that raves do on a regular basis.

[AAAAE]

Honestly, the city of Edmonton should be thankful that the promoters are even here. We need to make their life easy, not hard. These are massive cultural events that any modern city would DIE to have.

[Marcel Petrin]

And to be clear, the statements that I have a problem with are here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...speak-out.html

“All we ask for is a level playing field with the rest of Edmonton’s major festivals,” Pandos said.

“A good example of the current discrepancy is the Feb. 6 concert of LMFAO, another electronic music artist.… They played another Northlands-managed venue — Rexall Place — that show attracted over 12,000 people, on par with the attendance for Elements. However, that show was not subject to the same stringent requirements that we are facing.”

Pandos mentioned other festivals and sporting events as proof that the city does not usually require such severe measures.

"How about the Edmonton Eskimos games?" he asked. "The Oilers? How about Edmonton's Folk Music Festival, which is three times as large as Elements ... will they be subject to the same points and arbitrary requirements? It's a question that we'd all like to be answered, if possible."

Like I said, the questions he was asking there are asinine in light of the very real difference in medical, sexual, and law enforcement incidents at a typical rave. Why should they expect to be treated equally as the Folk Fest when they're anything but in terms of problems and coordination with the community?

[AAAAE]

For those who don't really know what a "rave" is...
I would classify 4 things you should know.

1. They are inclusive. Electronic music festivals attract all different types of people, from hippies to university students, all races, all sexualities. And everyone accepts everyone else. That is part of what makes going a liberating experience.

2. The largest cities in the world want to attract these events. Large electronic festivals are held in the world's greatest cities... like Miami, Rio, London, NYC, Amsterdam.

3. Big name DJs world-wide know Edmonton. You probably don't know who Tiesto, Armin van Burren, or Deadmau5 are, but think of it as the equivalent of Madonna, Prince, Lady Gaga, The Beatles.. specifically being aware of Edmonton, and wanting to play here. These djs play to tens of thousands every night, and know our city for our support of electronic music.

4. The people who attend these events are cosmopolitan and urban. This is the opposite crowd that gets into bar fights at Oil City Roadhouse. These events attract a sophisticated and liberal minded audience.

I would just like to share these facts to help the older generation understand what a "rave" really is.

[Alex.L]

I wonder how the City of Chicago treats Lollapalooza. I mean, all of the headliners for the event this weekend are also appearing there, and that's in a park in the middle of the city.

[Marcel Petrin]

I'm 31, and have been to raves and similar events several times. I'm aware of what they are, and what goes on at them.

Originally Posted by Ander

I wonder how the City of Chicago treats Lollapalooza. I mean, all of the headliners for the event this weekend are also appearing there, and that's in a park in the middle of the city.

I would imagine that they've spent millions on security and have closely coordinated the event with local stakeholders. Not gone whining to the media that they're being ganged up on or treated unfairly because they have to do some due diligence.

Again, the perfect counterpoint is Folk Fest, who has to literally kiss Cloverdale's butt continually to allow the event to continue. They're responsible and make sure that any impacts on the community are mitigated as much as is reasonably possible. Obviously given the nature of the event they don't have the same kind of problems as a rave does, but their beer garden capacity is over 2000 and there's never a single problem.

[Alex.L]

This is not the typical mid-90s all-night rave.

This is a concert, just like any other concert. The term 'rave' and the negative connotation that goes with it is only being applied because it's electronic music.

[Medwards]

Originally Posted by AAAAE

For those who don't really know what a "rave" is...
I would classify 4 things you should know.

1. They are inclusive. Electronic music festivals attract all different types of people, from hippies to university students, all races, all sexualities. And everyone accepts everyone else. That is part of what makes going a liberating experience.

2. The largest cities in the world want to attract these events. Large electronic festivals are held in the world's greatest cities... like Miami, Rio, London, NYC, Amsterdam.

3. Big name DJs world-wide know Edmonton. You probably don't know who Tiesto, Armin van Burren, or Deadmau5 are, but think of it as the equivalent of Madonna, Prince, Lady Gaga, The Beatles.. specifically being aware of Edmonton, and wanting to play here. These djs play to tens of thousands every night, and know our city for our support of electronic music.

4. The people who attend these events are cosmopolitan and urban. This is the opposite crowd that gets into bar fights at Oil City Roadhouse. These events attract a sophisticated and liberal minded audience.

I would just like to share these facts to help the older generation understand what a "rave" really is.

Your first and fourth point kinda contradict each other don't they?

point 1: Raves/music festivals attract all types, all walks...
point 4: Raves/Music festivals only attract the opposite crowd that gets into bar fights at Oil city Roadhouse...

[lat]

Originally Posted by Ander

7 people OD - > ban all similar events
people get shot at a bar - > suspend license for 2 weeks and re-open

apple, meet orange.

[Alex.L]

Originally Posted by lat

apple, meet orange.

According to Replacement alcohol is to blame in both cases. Guns are illegal, as is ecstacy. If we're going to start banning alcohol because someone might show up with either, then we might as well do it across the board.

[Chmilz]

Originally Posted by Ander

This is not the typical mid-90s all-night rave.

This is a concert, just like any other concert. The term 'rave' and the negative connotation that goes with it is only being applied because it's electronic music.

Pretty much this. If this was 15 different rock bands playing on a couple stages nobody would bat an eyelash.

As for the drugs, the solution a million times over is to legalize it and regulate it. Recreational ecstasy use is virtually harmless, these OD's are caused when the cooks mix in garbage or the dose is wrong. Your local legalized, regulated recreational drug store would be able to advise you properly, if only our politicians and baby boomers weren't so blind to reality and let us fix the laws.

[Replacement]

Originally Posted by Ander

According to Replacement alcohol is to blame in both cases. Guns are illegal, as is ecstacy. If we're going to start banning alcohol because someone might show up with either, then we might as well do it across the board.

This is not at all what I, or anybody else said and its only your obstinate response distorting it.

By all means discuss this rationally. Its what a messageboard can be for. But willfully repeatedly distorting others arguments is poor form and you know that.

[Replacement]

Originally Posted by Chmilz

Pretty much this. If this was 15 different rock bands playing on a couple stages nobody would bat an eyelash.

As for the drugs, the solution a million times over is to legalize it and regulate it. Recreational ecstasy use is virtually harmless, these OD's are caused when the cooks mix in garbage or the dose is wrong. Your local legalized, regulated recreational drug store would be able to advise you properly, if only our politicians and baby boomers weren't so blind to reality and let us fix the laws.

Its really the best possible solution. But one thats unlikely to occur anytime soon.

[Alex.L]

Listen Replacement, Ecstacy is illegal. If we start denying liquor licenses because people might sneak in drugs, then we're essentially condoning the act of sneaking in and ingesting drugs. Beefing up security is a step in the right direction. I'm not disagreeing with that at all. What I'm saying, and what I've been saying all along, is that if you take alcohol out of the equation you're only going to encourage more people to experiment with the drugs (which will apparently be available regardless of what measures are taken).

Just a quick related question. How many overdoses were there at Freezing Man last year? That was an electronic music festival at the same venue, and they sold alcohol. I'm curious, because when I google I can't find any news stories about it. This leads me to believe that there were none, and that all of the hoopla surrounding ELEMENTS and their liquor license is (once again) a kneejerk reaction to a completely unrelated string of deaths caused by tainted drugs, not alcohol.

[Medwards]

I think both sides are making a mountain out of a molehill. The Festival should expect that city will want to ensure the safety and security around the event. There's always certain conditions to be met. Someone brought up Oilers or Eskimo games... well they have the same security, minus the dogs. You can and will be searched on entrance.
Rock concerts and other festivals? Expect the same thing.

Not sure what the big deal is here... both sides want the event to run and be safe and secure for all.

[Replacement]

Originally Posted by Ander

Listen Replacement, Ecstacy is illegal. If we start denying liquor licenses because people might sneak in drugs, then we're essentially condoning the act of sneaking in and ingesting drugs. Beefing up security is a step in the right direction. I'm not disagreeing with that at all. What I'm saying, and what I've been saying all along, is that if you take alcohol out of the equation you're only going to encourage more people to experiment with the drugs (which will apparently be available regardless of what measures are taken).

Just a quick related question. How many overdoses were there at Freezing Man last year? That was an electronic music festival at the same venue, and they sold alcohol. I'm curious, because when I google I can't find any news stories about it. This leads me to believe that there were none, and that all of the hoopla surrounding ELEMENTS and their liquor license is (once again) a kneejerk reaction to a completely unrelated string of deaths caused by tainted drugs, not alcohol.

Thats a more reasonable comment Ander and thanks for that. No easy solutions I agree but theres been some precedents locally where theres been some unfortunate results. Its unfortunate that the behavior of some wrecks it for the many.
Freezing Man wasn't really that well attended and kind of a different crowd though. Not sure if its a direct comparison.

Believe me I also understand where you're coming at from the perspective of having these things come off in Europe without as much of a hitch but sometimes the crowds and the people are different in different parts of the world. per capita Edmonton has a huge drug and alcohol problem. It just is the case. Perhaps some of these events have more problems here because they exacerbate the nature of problems that we already see in this city.
Anyway the police are citing some huge problems stemming from a similar 2010 event. I don't remember the circumstances but if anybody does.

In anycase I'm not really trying to take a prohibitionist stance with this, just a public safety stance. We're all happy like I said if theres no incidents this weekend.

edit: this could be the incident police are talking about:

http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmo.../13840641.html

another local rave death:

http://www.vancouverite.com/2009/10/...e-in-hospital/

Yet another recent death at Edmonton rave:

http://m.ctv.ca/topstories/20111231/...ng-111231.html

Sexual assault reports of rape always increase after a local rave:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...t-numbers.html

Unfortunately I could keep going on theres so many terrible incidents that have occurred at Raves in Edmonton. The fear should be real enough.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

I'm on the fence here...an event such as this would be a great boon for the city, but it needs to be safe.

But I have to ask, why are rave/electronic shows being singled out for safety concerns?

Coachella 2012:
http://www.kesq.com/Heat-Accompanies...z/-/index.html

On the final day of Week One, a man from Woodland Hills was stabbed in a fight over a woman in the Sahara Tent about 3 p.m., and police made a separate assault arrest last weekend, but charges apparently were not filed in either case. Last weekend, a total of 134 arrests were made.

Violence at Calgary Coldplay gig:
http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/04/19...ldplay-concert

Let's not even talk about the hip-hop shows in the States.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Opinion piece in the Journal:
http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...m-to-edmonton/

[Replacement]

Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey

I'm on the fence here...an event such as this would be a great boon for the city, but it needs to be safe.

But I have to ask, why are rave/electronic shows being singled out for safety concerns?

Coachella 2012:
http://www.kesq.com/Heat-Accompanies...z/-/index.html

Violence at Calgary Coldplay gig:
http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/04/19...ldplay-concert

Let's not even talk about the hip-hop shows in the States.

I think we have to use some kind of perspective in the comparison. Coachella is huge. 85K/day this year across 3 days on that first weekend making it 250K just on first weekend. With 250K from the sheer numbers and reported crowding you're going to get some incidents. This is the most people they've ever had at the festival and from many reports people felt crowded and uncomfortable in the atmosphere. If you've ever been to a festival thats overcrowded like that and you can't get in or out or anywhere you know it feels a bit intimidating sometimes. Especially all day, all weekend festivals. Temperatures also soared over 100degrees with that likely contributing to the discomfort.

So really we have a comparison of Coachella weekend, 250K, with no reported deaths, vs several very small rave shows here that have had reported deaths that I cited above. So for instance 1-2K shows at EEC that have a fatality and several injuries, several reported sexual assaults, overdoses, and requiring several police interventions.

Do the math. If there was this kind of incident rate at something like Coachella it would read like bloody carnage. Say 20 murders, 500 OD's, thousands of sexual assaults etc.

Clearly raves have a much bigger problem and it isn't even close.

As far as Coldplay stabbings would have to be pretty much an outlier event I would say at one of their shows. Hip hop shows tend to get some violence but Coldplay? Also Hip Hop shows do get the increased scrutiny as well.

A large part of the Rave problem is the specific link with Ecstacy, combined with inconsistent manufacturing qualities of E which substantially increase the risk of use. Its a specific drug of choice at the rave shows. Its much more harmful, and with more side effects and associated with more substantive perception and behavioral problems than say pot.

Really I'd have to say I'd have zero interest being in a crowded room with thousands of people high on E. I've had no problem being at a festival with 100K people where pot was the drug of choice.

just saying.

[Sonic Death Monkey]

Last night, 1 OD and 1 arrest.
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...265/story.html

[Alex.L]

In one of those articles they say that after an 'all-night rave' the number of sexual assaults jumps from 15 to 40.

Well, I wonder if they realize that there are 'all-night raves' virtually every night. Y Afterhours is an all-night electronic music club. I don't think they even open the doors until 12. They don't serve alcohol, but pretty much everybody there is drunk from other bars and anybody with eyes can see rampant drug use all through the night.

Just one example of a relatively low 'incident rate' (I know they've had their problems too) and some perspective.

Also, one of those examples you posted was a repeat, Replacement.

[Chmilz]

I decided to put my forum trolling aside for a minute and buy tickets to Sonic Boom. Maybe by supporting the festivals I can help them get better, instead of complaining on C2E about the lack of quality acts