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2011 Federal Election Forum This Forum is to gather all topics and discussions around the 2011 Federal Election. This was born out of the Jimbo thread entitled the "real issues". This forum will be archived 1 week after the end of the election.


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Old 15-04-2011, 01:15 PM   #1
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Default Conservatives want student votes nullified

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Conservatives want to dump Guelph U student votes

On campus vote has not been challenged in past

GUELPH No votes cast Wednesday in a special ballot at the University of Guelph should stand, according to the Conservative Party of Canada.

The party wrote Elections Canada on Thursday to request that none of the votes collected during the U of G session be included in the final tally of votes in the Guelph riding. The letter was sent by lawyer Arthur Hamilton, of Toronto-based law firm, Cassels Brock.

The move has generated considerable controversy at the university, home of the first youth "vote mob" encouraging students to vote.

In his letter, Hamilton alleges the polling station was illegal and also that partisan election material was present at it, which is a violation of the Canada Elections Act.

The polling station in question was located on the main floor of University Centre, where approximately 700 students cast sealed ballots.

Elections Canada media advisor James Hale said this was the third election during which the University of Guelph held a special ballot on campus. And this is the first time it’s ever been challenged, Hale said.

“Part of our mandate is making the vote as accessible as possible. So, we look at outreach programs,” Hale said.

Hale said special ballot polling stations are often held for groups of people who consistently display less-than-average voter turnouts, such as students, First Nations, seniors and the disabled.

“It’s never been challenged, not to my knowledge,” Hale said.

However, it was Wednesday and then again Thursday by the Conservatives.

Several University of Guelph students claim Michael Sona, the communications director for Guelph Conservative candidate Marty Burke, attempted to put a stop to voting at the special ballot held Wednesday.

The students say Sona approached the Elections Canada balloting site claiming that the process unfolding at the location was illegal and at one point reached for but never took possession of a container with ballots.

“He tried to grab for the ballot box. I’m not sure he got his hand on the box, but he definitely grabbed for it,” said Brenna Anstett, a student, who at the time of the reported incident was sealing her second of two envelopes containing her vote.

Student Claire Whalen was just about to receive her ballot just before 5 p.m. when the episode unfolded.

“That’s when a guy came up and said it was an illegal polling station and that he was confiscating the ballots. And then he tried to take (the ballot box),” Whalen said.

Whalen also identified the man as Sona.

The Guelph Mercury has not been able to verify that it was Sona and has not confirmed the identity of the individual that made the approach witnessed by the students.

Sona, who recently was a University of Guelph student, did not respond to phone calls or emails placed to him Thursday by the newspaper. He was in a meeting Thursday when a reporter stopped by Burke’s campaign office for comment on this story. Burke campaign officials confirmed Sona was aware of the requests for comment. The nature of the story was also described to the Burke campaign in connection with requests to interview Sona.

Burke has not yet made a public comment in connection with the special ballot issues. Requests to interview him in connection with this story did not yield an interview.

Anstett said she filed a complaint with Elections Canada on Thursday morning about the brief disruption the incident caused.

Hale said Anstett’s submission will be reviewed but no formal complaint was made on the matter.

Before the late afternoon incident, the special balloting event was heralded as a success Wednesday by various U of G officials.

Hundreds of students queued to mark ballots at the session. Student interest in the voting was so significant U of G president Alastair Summerlee honoured a pledge to have his face painted blue at the venue if the event garnered enough student participation.

“We were all very happy there was going to be a poll on campus” student voter Yvonne Su said. “I’m not aware of the legalities of it, but I would think Elections Canada would know what they’re doing.”

Some students waited up to two hours to vote. Some studied for final exams while they waited.

Su, an organizer of the Vote Mob action in the city on April 4, said if the ballots are rejected “there will be a lot of really upset students.”
This story is exceedingly precious for a few reasons. To start with, the lawyer involved happens to be this guy, who is a super star all by himself. How much of a superstar?

Quote:
CBC News has learned that the "serious allegations" Prime Minister Stephen Harper referred to last year in connection with former Conservative MP Helena Guergis included unsubstantiated claims of fraud, extortion and involvement with prostitutes.

But a letter written by a Harper aide and obtained by CBC News states that the Prime Minister's Office learned the allegations had been made by a Toronto private investigator. The letter also reveals the allegations were not based on any hard evidence.
Regressive.

Secondly, Elections Canada has said All information at our disposal indicates that the votes were cast in a manner that respects the Canada Elections Act and are valid.. No basis to stand on. Things were done in an unorthodox manner, but not an illegal one. There is no reasonable basis to remove the votes, as said by the country's election authority.

Lastly, let us compare a couple of quotes from the conservative party wooo

Quote:
...in accordance with the authority provided to you by the CEO, we require immediate confirmation from the CEO and the Returning Officer from the electoral district of Guelph that this ballot box and all of its contents will remain sealed and that none of the ballots contained therein will under any circumstances be combined with, added to or otherwise dealt with when the final tabulation of votes cast for the various candidates in the electoral district of Guelph takes place.
Don't count the votes.

Quote:
While the Elections Canada statement confirms that what happened in Guelph lacked proper authorization, we applaud the decision not to disenfranchise University of Guelph students because of errors by the local Returning Officer.
Yay you counted the votes!

They should be scared of students voting, but this reaction and trying to confiscate the ballot box and raising a stink right there? Seriously? Interference and theatrics have no place in our political system, and if individuals had issue with this they could have NOT made a huge show of it right there and instead handled it maturely with the election offices. They chose to act like children.
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Old 15-04-2011, 01:23 PM   #2
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Why do students, typically the children of wealthy middle class parents, need special polling stations? Just because they are too lazy / don't care enough to get off their bums and walk to a polling station like most of us do?

Wouldn't this effort be better spent providing more options for people who really need the help, like disabled, etc.?
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Old 15-04-2011, 01:39 PM   #3
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Old 15-04-2011, 02:13 PM   #4
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Wouldn't this effort be better spent providing more options for people who really need the help, like disabled, etc.?
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Elections Canada media adviser James Hale said this was the third election during which the University of Guelph held a special ballot on campus. And this is the first time it’s ever been challenged, Hale said. “Part of our mandate is making the vote as accessible as possible. So, we look at outreach programs,” Hale said.
Hale said special ballot polling stations are often held for groups of people who consistently display less-than-average voter turnouts, such as students, First Nations, seniors and the disabled. “It’s never been challenged, not to my knowledge,” Hale said.
Ken Frey, field liaison officer for Elections Canada in the area that includes the ridings in Waterloo Region and Wellington County, said Thursday that special ballots are typically held at a returning office, and special ballots held at other locations are “infrequent.” However, they do occur. “Elections Canada may decide to offer these opportunities on a special needs basis,” Frey said.
Special ballots were held at the University of Guelph for each of the past two federal elections to improve accessibility, Frey said.
Yeah, making it easy for students to vote during exams does not equal that we're catering to laziness. Deal with it.
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Old 15-04-2011, 02:17 PM   #5
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Because classes will be over before election day and the students are registered at their school address rather than their home address.
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Old 15-04-2011, 02:38 PM   #6
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Yeah, making it easy for students to vote during exams does not equal that we're catering to laziness. Deal with it.
And people who are working don't find it hard to vote? Should we put polls in workplaces then? Which ones, blue collar, or white collar? The choice I am sure will influence the outcome of the vote.

IMO it is highly distoritionary to try to push some segments of the population who normally don't care enough to vote, into voting. It weakens the value of the votes of those who do care enough about their country to make the effort.
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Old 15-04-2011, 02:57 PM   #7
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Why do students, typically the children of wealthy middle class parents, need special polling stations? Just because they are too lazy / don't care enough to get off their bums and walk to a polling station like most of us do?

Wouldn't this effort be better spent providing more options for people who really need the help, like disabled, etc.?
and even FURTHER to that... Most of us DON'T get up off our a$$es and vote, look at the voter turn outs!

I think finding ways to engage ALL voting demographics is important. The cons are just crying and whining because students don't tend to vote conservative.
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Old 15-04-2011, 03:52 PM   #8
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I don't think you recognize how hard and how much stress students are under.
.
I've been through that, all the way to post graduate where yes, there was a lot of pressure (I remember 70 hour weeks at times). Same with work though, if anything, I find work more intense. I remember reading once that the most stressed workers, interestingly enough, are actually those on production lines and similar. I'm sure that's more stress than university, should we put polling booths in factories?

I'm a bit tired of the "we need to be spoon fed or we won't do anything" whining you hear so much of today. I don't think we should be wasting money catering to such. Sure, for a senior citizen who really does need to be spoon fed, but not a young student. Don't care enough to want to make the effort to vote? IMO we are better off without that vote then.

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Old 15-04-2011, 03:58 PM   #9
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I don't think you recognize how hard and how much stress students are under.
.
I've been through that, all the way to post graduate where yes, there was a lot of pressure (I remember 70 hour weeks at times). Same with work though, if anything, I find work more intense. I remember reading once that the most stressed workers, interestingly enough, are actually those on production lines and similar. I'm sure that's more stress than university, should we put polling booths in factories?

I'm a bit tired of the "we need to be spoon fed or we won't do anything" whining you hear so much of today. I don't think we should be wasting money catering to such. Sure, for a senior citizen who really does need to be spoon fed, but not a young healthy student.
You are the one creating that sentiment... the reality is that poling stations are routinely set up in schools and community centers. My polling station is in a school for the love of pete. Further to that a poling areas take into account population.. Areas around universities are densely populated...

No one is spoon feeding or pampering or babying... they are providing the service that the area and the voters are entitled to according to our system..

You are spin doctoring.

When did you get so old and grumpy... better check and see if some whipper snapper is on your front lawn. don't forget your cane so you have something to shake at them.
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Old 15-04-2011, 04:01 PM   #10
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You are the one creating that sentiment... the reality is that poling stations are routinely set up in schools and community centers. My polling station is in a school for the love of pete.
And it can be at a university to, whereever is convinent to the population in general. But not, weeks in advance, at a special party, before the election campaign has even finished / issues have all come out, just because this group has low turn out / doesn't care enough on polling day.
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Old 15-04-2011, 04:03 PM   #11
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You are the one creating that sentiment... the reality is that poling stations are routinely set up in schools and community centers. My polling station is in a school for the love of pete.
And it can be at a university to, whereever is convinent to the population in general. But not, weeks in advance, at a special party, before the election campaign has even finished / issues have all come out, just because this group has low turn out / doesn't care enough on polling day.
Advance polls happen ALL over the place...

You can go to an advanced too. You are spin doctoring... You are grasping at way to keep your argument valid..

we all have a low turnout and yes how silly how silly of us to try and address low voter turn out. Again we should just shake a cane at everyone and chastize.
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Old 15-04-2011, 04:06 PM   #12
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and even FURTHER to that... Most of us DON'T get up off our a$$es and vote, look at the voter turn outs!
I'll just repost this.

Try getting mad at your peers FIRST before blaming and chastising the efforts to engage other Demographics. I mean us in our more "mature" outlook in life should all be doing our civic duty... but we aren't. The way to effect change is to target the under 30 crowd because that is when we solidify the habits that will cary us through the rest of our life.
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Old 15-04-2011, 04:09 PM   #13
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This isn't about whether or not students should get advanced balloting options, but good try at deflecting from the heart of the matter.
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Old 15-04-2011, 04:22 PM   #14
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I don't like how the conservatives are approaching this like Elections Canada has some sort of anti conservative agenda....

Elections Canada has a mandate to get people to vote!
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Old 15-04-2011, 04:37 PM   #15
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i don't like how the conservatives are approaching this like elections canada has some sort of anti conservative agenda....
Well...

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elections canada has a mandate to get people to vote!
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...elections canada has some sort of anti conservative agenda....
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Old 15-04-2011, 06:02 PM   #16
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You are the one creating that sentiment... the reality is that poling stations are routinely set up in schools and community centers. My polling station is in a school for the love of pete.
And it can be at a university to, whereever is convinent to the population in general. But not, weeks in advance, at a special party, before the election campaign has even finished / issues have all come out, just because this group has low turn out / doesn't care enough on polling day.
Special ballots start once an election is called and continue until advanced polling starts. We should be putting them somewhere where people will actually use them (in this case a university) rather then some random hall or office where nobody even knows it is going on.
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Old 15-04-2011, 11:09 PM   #17
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I don't like how the conservatives are approaching this like Elections Canada has some sort of anti conservative agenda....

Elections Canada has a mandate to get people to vote!
The reality is that the Conservatives will always, if it suits them, accuse government departments/agencies/crown corporations of working against them. Not only is it whacking a beloved boogeyman for their base, their constant criticism of the civil service is useful intimidation in order to inculcate a culture of fear.
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Old 16-04-2011, 12:55 AM   #18
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Harper CONS do not want informed/educated Canadians voting......it is obvious the lengths they do and have gone to.
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Old 16-04-2011, 01:26 PM   #19
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It isn't specifically "informed/educated Canadians" in this case, it's a demographic that votes for everyone else but conservatives in large numbers (when they do vote). Newer generations don't just disagree with the conservative values, they outright disagree with the way the government is run. This is scary for a party with roots in a desire for no/small changes in society.
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Old 16-04-2011, 02:13 PM   #20
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Yeah, making it easy for students to vote during exams does not equal that we're catering to laziness. Deal with it.
And people who are working don't find it hard to vote? Should we put polls in workplaces then? Which ones, blue collar, or white collar? The choice I am sure will influence the outcome of the vote.

IMO it is highly distoritionary to try to push some segments of the population who normally don't care enough to vote, into voting. It weakens the value of the votes of those who do care enough about their country to make the effort.
Employers are required by law to give you 4 consecutive hours off on election day to vote (it might be 3 - but I think it is 4).

Students don't have that benefit. Between classes, exams, and part time work it is often difficult to have more than 1 hour off to go vote. That makes it very difficult for a student to make it to a polling station to vote.

If a student normally doesn't care enough to vote, they still won't vote even if you put a polling station in their house.
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Old 16-04-2011, 02:41 PM   #21
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Students don't have that benefit. Between classes, exams, and part time work it is often difficult to have more than 1 hour off to go vote. That makes it very difficult for a student to make it to a polling station to vote.
Are you working full time? While I had to study long hours as a student, my time was free. To suggest not able out of a full day to get to the polling booth being the reasons students don't vote, is just plain silly.

In writing that, I would be in favour of internet voting. Wouldn't need these partisan vote rigging parties.
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Old 16-04-2011, 03:10 PM   #22
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It is what it is the conservatives are in FEAR of our youth,
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Old 16-04-2011, 03:18 PM   #23
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^ thats because the youth tend to vote NDP and Liberal...

but whatever..... It's funny if coke puts in place a campaign the increases sales of its product 10% we say.. WOW that was really effective and successful. Now if we try and sell elections and increase voter turnout some people start calling it "spoon feeding"
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Old 16-04-2011, 04:05 PM   #24
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Student special ballot strawman, yay!

Like I posted before...

Quote:
Elections Canada media adviser James Hale said this was the third election during which the University of Guelph held a special ballot on campus. And this is the first time it’s ever been challenged, Hale said. “Part of our mandate is making the vote as accessible as possible. So, we look at outreach programs,” Hale said.
Hale said special ballot polling stations are often held for groups of people who consistently display less-than-average voter turnouts, such as students, First Nations, seniors and the disabled. “It’s never been challenged, not to my knowledge,” Hale said.
Ken Frey, field liaison officer for Elections Canada in the area that includes the ridings in Waterloo Region and Wellington County, said Thursday that special ballots are typically held at a returning office, and special ballots held at other locations are “infrequent.” However, they do occur. “Elections Canada may decide to offer these opportunities on a special needs basis,” Frey said.
Special ballots were held at the University of Guelph for each of the past two federal elections to improve accessibility, Frey said.
Special ballots are for any groups that display low turnout, do you feel there should be no special ballots at all? Is that where you're going with this?

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Wouldn't need these partisan vote rigging parties.
Prove it was a partisan vote rigging party. The conservatives have rescinded their assertion that it was, elections canada says the votes weren't invalidated. Please prove it, and show me what sources you're getting your information from, because not even the conservatives hold your view.
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Old 16-04-2011, 04:15 PM   #25
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^of course its a vote rigging party, its at a university for students, and we all know students vote left (until most of them grow up and start paying taxes, realizing it isn't so pleasant/easy in real world). Its vote rigging the same way conservatives targeting seniors homes is vote rigging. I think if we had internet voting, we could wipe it all out hopefully.
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Old 16-04-2011, 04:22 PM   #26
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^of course its a vote rigging party, its at a university for students, and we all know students vote left (until most of them grow up and start paying taxes, realizing it isn't so pleasant/easy in real world). Its vote rigging the same way conservatives targeting seniors homes is vote rigging. I think if we had internet voting, we could wipe it all out hopefully.
To the same extent it's easy to say most disabled, those living in old age homes, and our parents will vote conservative. It's also known if your riding votes Conservetive Harper will be most glad to find the biggest cheque he can find to stamp the conservative logo on it, to come spend piles of cash.

With that said tho University's etc also spread tons of propoganda, just like Katz does on the Hockey games, or the attack adds etc.

Proudly one thing I can say is I dont have cable or t.v when I feel my brain succumb to propoganda I take a holiday to refresh and get away from it. But you Moan your not capable to think outside the box, it's to late for your kind.
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Old 16-04-2011, 04:59 PM   #27
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^of course its a vote rigging party, its at a university for students, and we all know students vote left (until most of them grow up and start paying taxes, realizing it isn't so pleasant/easy in real world). Its vote rigging the same way conservatives targeting seniors homes is vote rigging. I think if we had internet voting, we could wipe it all out hopefully.
You did not prove it was a vote rigging party. You stated that students are a group who tends to vote one particular way until they turn into conservatives in the real world (and also did not prove either when you stated it as fact), but you didn't prove that the intent of this special ballot was a "vote rigging party".

Elections Canada states that it is intended to making voting easier for groups that continually under-perform in voter turnout, do you have anything to prove otherwise?

Oh, you also didn't reply to my question of if you think there should be no special ballots. I don't know if that was intentional or not, but I'll toss it in here again just in case.
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Old 16-04-2011, 05:23 PM   #28
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^I said we should get internet voting, no need for special ballots then. No excuse for students not voting then either...
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Old 16-04-2011, 05:52 PM   #29
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Why do students, typically the children of wealthy middle class parents, need special polling stations? Just because they are too lazy / don't care enough to get off their bums and walk to a polling station like most of us do?

Wouldn't this effort be better spent providing more options for people who really need the help, like disabled, etc.?
instead of making life easier for students,you might prefer that their classrooms are spread out through random buildings scattered, here, there, everywhere downtown/northedge/quarters. Then on top of this, you might also be against an initiative to make it easier for students (who are already stretched for time as it is) to vote during exams... what is it that you have against students? You seem to think all students are lazy and don't care...
Whats wrong with supporting everyone? Why focus on just the disabled? Everyone deserves to vote!
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Old 17-04-2011, 12:46 PM   #30
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^I said we should get internet voting, no need for special ballots then. No excuse for students not voting then either...
You still haven't proven that it was intended as a party to rig votes, that students turn conservative once they enter the real world, and then even further you didn't even say if you're against special ballots existing or not. Internet voting isn't even on the radar here and has nothing to do with the subject at hand, it is quite distant from the original topic.

If you're just going to go around in circles like this...
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Old 17-04-2011, 04:16 PM   #31
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Students don't have that benefit. Between classes, exams, and part time work it is often difficult to have more than 1 hour off to go vote. That makes it very difficult for a student to make it to a polling station to vote.
Are you working full time? While I had to study long hours as a student, my time was free. To suggest not able out of a full day to get to the polling booth being the reasons students don't vote, is just plain silly.

In writing that, I would be in favour of internet voting. Wouldn't need these partisan vote rigging parties.
With tutition rapidly increasing (I paid $6,500 - excluding books and housing - in my last year of University 7 years ago), many students are working full time now. Personally, I worked 2 part time jobs when I was in class.

Either way, between working (either full or part time), classes, studying and traveling between various locations (even if you have a break of 2 hours between a class and/or work, if you need to take a 45 minute bus ride home to vote, and a 45 minute bus side back, that doesn't give much room to spare).
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Old 17-04-2011, 05:48 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
^of course its a vote rigging party, its at a university for students, and we all know students vote left (until most of them grow up and start paying taxes, realizing it isn't so pleasant/easy in real world). Its vote rigging the same way conservatives targeting seniors homes is vote rigging. I think if we had internet voting, we could wipe it all out hopefully.
I'm 35, I work for a living, I pay taxes, I know what the 'real world' is like. I don't vote Conservative. So in your books I've not grown up yet?

Please realize (and to be intellectually honest, state to all here) you're speaking for yourself, rather than a huge demographic group. Thank you.
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Old 17-04-2011, 07:13 PM   #33
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With tutition rapidly increasing (I paid $6,500 - excluding books and housing - in my last year of University 7 years ago), many students are working full time now. Personally, I worked 2 part time jobs when I was in class.
Good for you. I worked as well, and still ended up with close to $40,000 of debt (all of which I have since repaid). I still found time to vote though because I cared about that, why we want to encourage people who don't care, I don't know. Although, I guess if my theory holds true though, maybe we should encourage them (on the assumption that by becoming regular voters, in the long term, it will mean more conservative votes?).

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Old 17-04-2011, 07:15 PM   #34
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I'm 35, I work for a living, I pay taxes, I know what the 'real world' is like. I don't vote Conservative. So in your books I've not grown up yet?
Give it time Bulliver, you will probably wake up realizing the truth one day, and become a normal Albertan.

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Old 17-04-2011, 07:54 PM   #35
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Perhaps you're right Moa, perhaps you're right. Luckily for me, if I ever do switch allegiance the the Cons it won't bother me as my heart and soul will have turned to coal :P
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Old 17-04-2011, 08:06 PM   #36
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^Lol, coal is the soul of this province, it happens to the best of us.
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Old 17-04-2011, 09:51 PM   #37
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Ten hours and three posts later with no response, am I to assume you're admitting you were wrong?
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Old 17-04-2011, 10:02 PM   #38
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^of course its a vote rigging party, its at a university for students, and we all know students vote left (until most of them grow up and start paying taxes, realizing it isn't so pleasant/easy in real world). Its vote rigging the same way conservatives targeting seniors homes is vote rigging. I think if we had internet voting, we could wipe it all out hopefully.
It's not vote rigging.. it's simply voting! A person is well within there right to vote however they want. You share the conservative parties siege mentality that everyone is out to get them. It's all rather paranoid and tiresome

Vote rigging would be PAYING someone to vote a certain way.
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Old 17-04-2011, 10:12 PM   #39
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Ten hours and three posts later with no response, am I to assume you're admitting you were wrong?
lol about what? In general I don't want to see more people voting, the more people who vote, the less valuable my vote is. That applies especially to students who often vote different from me, I don't want to see them encouraged to vote more (unless its a business school or similar).
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Old 17-04-2011, 10:50 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
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Originally Posted by DiscoBandit View Post
Ten hours and three posts later with no response, am I to assume you're admitting you were wrong?
lol about what? In general I don't want to see more people voting, the more people who vote, the less valuable my vote is. That applies especially to students who often vote different from me, I don't want to see them encouraged to vote more (unless its a business school or similar).
Did someone hack your account and post that for you?
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Old 17-04-2011, 11:06 PM   #41
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lol about what? In general I don't want to see more people voting, the more people who vote, the less valuable my vote is. That applies especially to students who often vote different from me, I don't want to see them encouraged to vote more (unless its a business school or similar).
Ladies and gentlemen, the Conservative Party of Canada.
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Old 17-04-2011, 11:49 PM   #42
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[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]I saw Harper and his goon show wearing bandanas on their heads mimicking the Ethnic voters in Vancouver. He must have got that e-mail calling for ethnic costumes. What a JOKE and an embarrassment! Wake up Canada, this guy will do and say anything to get his dictatorship!!!!![/SIZE][/FONT]

[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Remember the ABC's of politics = Anything But Conservative, Corrupt, Convicts, Control, Conniving, Censors, Contempt, Conceit, Condescending, Clowns, Circus, and the list keeps growing."[/FONT][/SIZE]
It does not take business school students to see through this Harper-crit garbage, anyone can read this phoney. Harper's history of being president of NCC before being leader of the CRAP Party and his actions since, shows our Health System is in real jeopardy if Harper gets back in.
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Old 18-04-2011, 12:08 AM   #43
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I think Moa meant that business students would be more likely to vote Conservative than an arts or science student.
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Old 18-04-2011, 12:16 AM   #44
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So....you are saying business students cannot see through the harper regime garbage, but arts and science students do..........hummm, that appears to be a divide and conquer stategy as well.
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Old 18-04-2011, 12:45 AM   #45
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You shouldn't stereotype like that, it isn't cool.
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Old 18-04-2011, 02:46 AM   #46
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^demographic stereotyping is done by all parties, its what politics is all about, winning over key demographics. While it doesn't break down as deep as different types of students, it does break down into students, and seniors, female and male, ethnic groups, etc. For example, it is known that the Conservatives have to win over more female voters, and gain more votes in immigrant communities that have traditionally voted Liberal, this is why you see warm fuzzy shots of Harper, visits with the Dhali Lama, etc. Ignatieff knows he isn't popular (just like Dion), so he doesn't talk about his policies, but rather, try's to focus on getting the Conservatives to trip themselves up (which they have done in the past), by running an "anti-Conservative" campaign rather than a pro-Liberal one.

Its all part of the game. Some of you take the reality of it far too seriously, politics is not some noble principals thing, sure parties need some fundamental basis, but every one of them sells out to win votes. Every one of them goes out on election day (in this case, before election day) and try's to make sure their voters (be they students, seniors, or whatever), go out and vote. The interesting thing is the Liberal party used to be a well oiled machine that was very effective at this with "right" parties shooting themselves in the foot, now its the opposite.

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Old 18-04-2011, 07:16 AM   #47
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Ok.. there is a diff between the marketing that is running in an election and those parties targeting specific groups and elections canada working towards voter turnout.

The largest issue I have with all your statements is that you are accusing elections canada of having a political agenda which is rather insulting.
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Old 18-04-2011, 08:28 AM   #48
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^personally I don't like the pandering to students, but I understand why election Canada does it, they are seeking more voters, that's their job. It makes sense if you are going to hold a partisan event, to ask election Canada to set up a voting booth in a nearby room, its clever by the Liberals.

As I stated earlier, I think a good answer would be to introduce internet voting. If we can trust banking with our life savings to the internet, I think we can trust voting.
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Old 18-04-2011, 09:56 AM   #49
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^ Election reform is long over due...

There is no need, in this age, to have to go to "assigned polling station" or have the system as cumbersome as it currently is.

I am also for mandatory voting laws, Even if you don't like the parties or the platforms than you should still go and spoil your ballot.

But this thread isn't about election reform.
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Old 20-04-2011, 03:58 AM   #50
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I don't like the pandering to students
Prove it.

Quote:
...if you are going to hold a partisan event...
Sh*t or get off the pot, if you can't prove these are partisan events or vote rigging parties then shut up about it and admit you're wrong or at least basing your opinion off of nothing substantial.
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Old 20-04-2011, 08:23 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
I don't like the pandering to students
Prove it.
OK. Elections Canada supposedly ran this booth because students are less likely to vote. However, it turns out, that university students are just as likely to vote as the regular population:

Quote:
Statistics Canada says just 37 per cent of Canadians between the ages of 18 and 24 voted in 2008. But research suggests university students are no less likely to vote than the general population. It’s their peers who are not at school who are staying home.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1989013/

So why was this polling booth held, if university students are just as likely to vote anyway (i.e. they aren't lazy as I speculated in my first post in this thread, and don't need the assistance to vote as various people claimed)?
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Old 20-04-2011, 10:15 AM   #52
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^ because you have a large concentration of that demographic iin one place....

It's called getting more bang for your buck, something that should appeal to the fiscal conservative.

I can't believe you are going to start chastising an effort which is both cost and results effective. Esp after you admit your initial understanding of the situation was incorrect.
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Old 20-04-2011, 02:48 PM   #53
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Was partisan election material present? Because that is a clear violation. I wonder if Elections Canada checked?

That would be similar to going to our polling station to find Conservative signs and brochures at the tables, and having the elections people wearing buttons.

That's the only problem I can see. Sounds like someone is a little overzealous. Dumb.

I'd love to see more students voting. I'm not going to hold my breath, though.
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Old 20-04-2011, 10:21 PM   #54
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This isn't the first time a political party has objected to special polls on university campuses.
The Liberals did exactly the same thing at the U of T in 2006.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/archi...icle809170.ece
Except in that case they succeeded in shutting it down.
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Old 20-04-2011, 10:36 PM   #55
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This isn't the first time a political party has objected to special polls on university campuses.
The Liberals did exactly the same thing at the U of T in 2006.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/archi...icle809170.ece
Except in that case they succeeded in shutting it down.
Actually, the Cons succeeded in shutting the practice down entirely!
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Old 20-04-2011, 11:18 PM   #56
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OK. Elections Canada supposedly ran this booth because students are less likely to vote. However, it turns out, that university students are just as likely to vote as the regular population:
This research did not exist when you originally asserted your point, it came after the fact. Further... you still have yet to prove it is pandering to students. Maybe, with this new research that exists, it is no longer as justified as it could be, but you consistently have not been able to prove this is pandering to students or a vote rigging party.

As well, considering that you said...

Quote:
That applies especially to students who often vote different from me, I don't want to see them encouraged to vote more
You have absolutely no credibility anymore. None!

Quote:
So why was this polling booth held, if university students are just as likely to vote anyway (i.e. they aren't lazy as I speculated in my first post in this thread, and don't need the assistance to vote as various people claimed)?
If the research just came out, dongle, are you seriously criticizing elections canada for not implementing policy based off of it in the past? I sincerely hope you're a liberal astroturfer trying to make conservatives look bad and not actually genuinely holding these views D:

I'm serious. I actually laughed for a good couple of minutes at this nonsense because it's actually so silly. Can I please just buy you a beer and see if you're a real person and not a robot?
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Old 20-04-2011, 11:25 PM   #57
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Dialog,
The conservatives pressed the issues, like the Liberals did before and now Elections Canada has clarified the rules. They stated "returning officers misunderstand the purpose of special ballots, which are used to accommodate the infirm, inmates or other voters who can't go to a regular polling station".
The election is May 2nd. There is plenty of time for anybody to go to an advance poll. I don't see why anybody would have a problem with elections being conducted under a firm set of rules.
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Old 21-04-2011, 11:44 AM   #58
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Dialog,
The conservatives pressed the issues, like the Liberals did before and now Elections Canada has clarified the rules. They stated "returning officers misunderstand the purpose of special ballots, which are used to accommodate the infirm, inmates or other voters who can't go to a regular polling station".
The election is May 2nd. There is plenty of time for anybody to go to an advance poll. I don't see why anybody would have a problem with elections being conducted under a firm set of rules.
Yes, that's what I said. And I agree with your final point.
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Old 21-04-2011, 04:39 PM   #59
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If the research just came out, dongle, are you seriously criticizing elections canada for not implementing policy based off of it in the past? I sincerely hope you're a liberal astroturfer trying to make conservatives look bad and not actually genuinely holding these views D:

I'm serious. I actually laughed for a good couple of minutes at this nonsense because it's actually so silly. Can I please just buy you a beer and see if you're a real person and not a robot?
Lol you take this stuff way to seriously. I'm not a member of the Conservative party, or the Liberal party. I just didn't like the idea of polling booths for students, my intial post didn't think it was right. As we learn that university students vote just as much as the regular population, it looks even less right.

As to my personal views that I'm happy to see students and other other left leaning voters not vote, in fact, happy to see anyone not vote as it makes my vote stronger, I stand by it. Maybe that's considered selfish, but then, I consider anyone who doesn't vote, as doing me a service by their disinterest. Good on them

PS. I haven't pretended to be credible on this or any political issue, politics is largely a game, so why would I? I just like watching it, comenting on it, and hoping that the side I like better (but its far from perfect re all my views) wins.

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Old 21-04-2011, 04:46 PM   #60
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At least you're honest about being selfish
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Old 23-04-2011, 08:45 AM   #61
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At least he's being honest, period. We're all selfish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialog View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
This isn't the first time a political party has objected to special polls on university campuses.
The Liberals did exactly the same thing at the U of T in 2006.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/archi...icle809170.ece
Except in that case they succeeded in shutting it down.
Actually, the Cons succeeded in shutting the practice down entirely!
Actually it was Elections Canada that shut the practice down, according to your link:

""Once Elections Canada officials were made aware of the local initiative in Guelph, the returning officer was instructed not to engage in any further activities of a similar nature," a statement says. "All returning officers have received this instruction."

Similar polls were held at the university in two previous elections.

Chipeur said some returning officers misunderstand the purpose of special ballots, which are used to accommodate the infirm, inmates or other voters who can't go to a regular polling station."


It shouldn't have been held in the first place. Moahunter is exactly right on this, for exactly the right reasons.

And, though it pains me to say it, Moahunter is the only one posting here (that I can find) that's being honest about not wanting to encourage those who disagree with his/her position to vote.

It's standard campaigning procedure for all parties to try to discourage those who'd vote against you, mostly through the "let sleeping dogs lay" approach. That's why the last thing a campaigner should do is engage anyone in an argument.

Anyone in any party who says they want opposition voters to vote is either lying or a fool. Of course there's no shortage of either on of these in any federal election.
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Old 23-04-2011, 11:31 AM   #62
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Anyone in any party who says they want opposition voters to vote is either lying or a fool. Of course there's no shortage of either on of these in any federal election.
I disagree with your opinion. Good policy comes out of collaboration, not out of subjugating one side by any means necessary so you can push through your plans with no obstacles.
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Old 24-04-2011, 12:12 PM   #63
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Anyone in any party who says they want opposition voters to vote is either lying or a fool. Of course there's no shortage of either on of these in any federal election.
I disagree with your opinion. Good policy comes out of collaboration, not out of subjugating one side by any means necessary so you can push through your plans with no obstacles.
I guess we can disagree. I think encouraging someone predisposed to vote against my vote is stupid. Not wanting people to vote against you has zero to do with subjugation.

Every single party feels the same way, I guarantee you. They all want to be in power.

Unless you consider Canadians to have been living under subjugation for most of our history. Quite a stretch, I'd say. If people choose not to vote, that's up to them.
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