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2011 Federal Election Forum This Forum is to gather all topics and discussions around the 2011 Federal Election. This was born out of the Jimbo thread entitled the "real issues". This forum will be archived 1 week after the end of the election.


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Old 26-03-2011, 11:17 AM   #1
jb0713
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Default Federal Election issues, more Alberta only tax

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/techn...334/story.html

IMO this "monitoring" program is a not so veiled attempt to wrest control, at least at first some control of the Oil Sands from Alberta. Notice the attempt to suggest that "Alberta" scientists, politicians and industry are all willing and glad to be on board with yet another federal program.

As if Alberta industry would want a program to siphon, at first millions, and then hundreds of millions more from the Oil Sands and direct that money to yet another federal agency.

Why would anyone think this new Monitoring program, designed to monitor a single industry, located only in the West, funded by that industry alone, is anything other than yet another transfer scheme? I sure no one does, it's purpose is very transparent, particularly given the many other federal programs that are already in place.

So why does it appear that Alberta taxpayers, politicians, and industry are on board? Because they want the vilification of Albertan's, their culture, their politicians and their industry to end and are clearly hoping that paying more will accomplish that. As if the $20 Billion extra dollars a year Ottawa takes from this single province is not enough.

This federal election gives the voters a chance to agree or disagree with the idea that Alberta should just keep paying. In this case for yet another federal program taking money from the West.

Should be an interesting campaign watching how the Conservatives try to sell such a program to Albertan's, or their plans to block Albertans from sitting on the Supreme Court, or their failure to end the gun registry, or their increased largess and political deference being given to Quebec which recently included an oil field.

Maybe they need only say all the other parties promise more pain for Alberta? In which case why would anyone in Alberta vote, giving legitimacy to a system that will not represent them?
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Old 26-03-2011, 02:06 PM   #2
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Like Albertans have control of our own resources anyways?

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Old 26-03-2011, 02:36 PM   #3
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Another completely bogus made up graph from somebodies imagination.
Do you honestly believe the oil sands bring in profit in the range of $20billion+ per year?????
Canadian Oilsands Trust, the operator of Syncrude, which is the biggest and most efficient producer in the oilsands had REVENUE of $3.18 Billion in 2010 with net income of $886 million.
http://www.cdnoilsands.com/Theme/COS...0-%20FINAL.pdf
I can only guess with an imagination like this Armin is voting Liberal.
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Old 26-03-2011, 02:47 PM   #4
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Does not really matter what our royalties are, it is already a fact, the energy companies are not even paying them in full anyway.....per Klein after he got the boot from the CONS. Therefore Alberta should not be in debt at all and we should have a large balance in out Heritage Trust Fund in the order of 100 billion.
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Old 26-03-2011, 02:50 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whynow99 View Post
Therefore Alberta should not be in debt at all and we should have a large balance in out Heritage Trust Fund in the order of 100 billion.
That's nonesense, as I have posted before, we would have a Heritage Trust Fund of 100 billion, or something similar to Norway (although Norway also has crippling debt that more than offsets their fund), if much of our tax take was not reinvested in Quebec. Equalization is the reason why its impossible for the Alberta government to accumulate such wealth, the moment we ever started to would be the moment equalization would increase again (e.g. fund goes up by $1billion, Federal health care transfer goes down by $1billion), its just a simple cycle of wealth transfer from the efficient to the inefficient. Rather than put "Pony's in every Quebec home", we are better off having the private sector use the wealth to reinvest and provide more high paying jobs in Alberta.

Last edited by moahunter; 26-03-2011 at 02:59 PM..
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Old 26-03-2011, 02:58 PM   #6
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If the cons get a majority they can get things done. Get rid of the gun registry, without opposition, give grants for arenas, without opposition, build more jail cells and keep a lot of those child molesters and repeat offenders off the streets which will also create construction jobs and high paying institutional employment plus service and supply spinoff jobs. Have a new border crossing at Windsor and make the borders easier to cross with perimiter defense system of North America. I think there is a lot of things that Harper wants to do but can not with his minority. I think we should give him a chance, just this once, and he can have 5 years maximum, then resign his post and retire in Calgary. He is an economist after all and has proved his ability to maintain stability through the worst of times. Economy will be important through the next five years.
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Old 26-03-2011, 03:13 PM   #7
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Democracies around the world use coalitions to broker stalemated government elections. In fact our Conservative government has stayed alive for 2 years because of unofficial coalitions.

Allow the parties (Liberal / NDP) or (Conservative / NDP) to broker a formal coalition agreement for three years or more and then be done with the intimidation tactics used by this Conservative minority of that past 5 years.

Coalition is NOT a political 4-letter word.

The overarching challenge is that while the Provincially focused Bloc Quebecois exists in the national forum, a majority government will likely be a thing of the past.

Truly the tail is waging the dog. A coalition could effectively neuter the situation and provide a viable solution to constant uncertainty and a not so benevolent dictator.

(and harper grew up and graduated in TORONTO, his WIFE is from Alberta. Harper came out west with Joe Clark and was his speechwriter, who wanted to seperate the west from canada.....now harper is screwing the oil sands.)
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Old 26-03-2011, 03:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
If the cons get a majority they can get things done. Get rid of the gun registry, without opposition, give grants for arenas, without opposition, build more jail cells and keep a lot of those child molesters and repeat offenders off the streets which will also create construction jobs and high paying institutional employment plus service and supply spinoff jobs. Have a new border crossing at Windsor and make the borders easier to cross with perimiter defense system of North America. I think there is a lot of things that Harper wants to do but can not with his minority. I think we should give him a chance, just this once, and he can have 5 years maximum, then resign his post and retire in Calgary. He is an economist after all and has proved his ability to maintain stability through the worst of times. Economy will be important through the next five years.
Insane gibberish.

Build more jail cells to keep what child molestors off the streets?

You think we're overun with deviants?

If he's such a good economist then why are we signing on for F-35's at a no bid rate that somehow keeps doubling?
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Old 26-03-2011, 03:24 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by ralph60 View Post
Another completely bogus made up graph from somebodies imagination.
Do you honestly believe the oil sands bring in profit in the range of $20billion+ per year?????
Canadian Oilsands Trust, the operator of Syncrude, which is the biggest and most efficient producer in the oilsands had REVENUE of $3.18 Billion in 2010 with net income of $886 million.
http://www.cdnoilsands.com/Theme/COS...0-%20FINAL.pdf
I can only guess with an imagination like this Armin is voting Liberal.
CAPP and their media minions have never been on the level with how much they make versus how much they pay us. How can you say that graph isn't true while feeding me some industry link?

Next you'll tell me they've been monitoring the water all this time right?
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Old 26-03-2011, 07:16 PM   #10
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Yippee, sounds like an election campaign is underway, 5 more weeks of craziness! Driving each other crazy...lol
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Old 27-03-2011, 07:13 PM   #11
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Armin,
It's not an industry link, it's their financial report. They are auditted and used by both Revenue Canada and the Securities commision that oversees the stock exchange. It is illegal to falsify them. The entire financial community as well as the Federal Government demands their accuracy.
Where did you get your graph?
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Old 28-03-2011, 09:23 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
That's nonesense, as I have posted before, we would have a Heritage Trust Fund of 100 billion, or something similar to Norway (although Norway also has crippling debt that more than offsets their fund), if much of our tax take was not reinvested in Quebec. Equalization is the reason why its impossible for the Alberta government to accumulate such wealth, the moment we ever started to would be the moment equalization would increase again (e.g. fund goes up by $1billion, Federal health care transfer goes down by $1billion), its just a simple cycle of wealth transfer from the efficient to the inefficient. Rather than put "Pony's in every Quebec home", we are better off having the private sector use the wealth to reinvest and provide more high paying jobs in Alberta.
Equalization isn't the reason our Trust Fund hasn't grown - it's because every year the provinicial government takes out every penny it can from it. In the past 34 years, they withdrew roughly $32 billion and put into general revenue.

http://www.finance.alberta.ca/busine...ml#whathappens

Here's how large our fund could have been under a few different scenarios.









The real reason they withdraw from it every year is to keep taxes low and fund services, not because the federal government is going to claw back equalization payments.

And you should take a gander at AIMCO (the entity responsible for managing the fund). They are growing a real capability for investment here in Alberta because of their management of the fund. While we will never be a New York or London (simply due to our size compared to them), we have a real chance to turn Alberta into a strong financial centre.
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Old 28-03-2011, 11:02 AM   #13
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^so what if we had saved this 100billion? Why wasn't the scenario of leaving Canada considered?

Quote:
Albertans fill Ottawa's vault to tune of $35.6 billion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Albertans continue to surrender the most per person to Ottawa and receive the least back in federal spending - a gap that currently sits at $14.1 billion - reveals a new report on the province's contributions to Confederation.
But the federal minister of state for finance dismisses the province's claims of a wealth transfer from Alberta to Ottawa, calling it "an easy rumour to spread."
In 2010, Alberta residents and companies paid a whopping $35.6 billion to the federal government in taxes and other payments, but received only $21.5 billion in federal programs and services. The $14.1-billion difference amounts to a $3,785 net contribution per Albertan, according to the report from Alberta Finance.
Over the last six years alone, Albertans have sent $102 billion more to Ottawa in taxes and payments than they have received back in federal spending.
Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Al...#ixzz1BGAaIcQ1

It would be worth, what, maybe $150 billion now with compounding? And that's only the last 6 years, lets take it back 20 or 30 years, it would be getting up over a trillion... The reason we have to keep dipping in, is the Federal government keeps reducing the relative money spent on Alberta for items like Health care. The moment we save a dollar extra, Quebec demands a dollar more, the Feds spend a dollar less on us, and we have to withdraw that dollar saved (or go into debt). It is a vicious circle that can't be stopped unless we were to leave Canada (like Norway stayed out of the EU). Not having a big fund is the price we Abertans pay as Canadians to keep Quebec Canadian.

Last edited by moahunter; 28-03-2011 at 11:18 AM..
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Old 28-03-2011, 12:30 PM   #14
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^ the smartest thing Norway ever did was decline membership in the EU, im sure Germany found that out the hard way... The ruling party in Germany is taking a lot of heat for that.

What i dont get is if Either the Liberals or Cons get a majority, why dont they change the election formula so they dont have to kiss Quebec *** all the time? that would be my number one priority if i had the majority because it ensures in the future an easier task at retaking the government control if you had just lost it to the other party.
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