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View Full Version : C’mon – where’s all the PC apologists???



Jeff
30-09-2008, 11:30 AM
ya, where’s all the hyperbolic screaming, separatist demanding, decriers of the past NEP… where they all be! Oh right… seems in Alberta, his holiness Harper, as a Conservative, gets a free ride - save the lame assed quote from Stelmach in his first public comments on the Harper announced bitumen export ban... “I'm not one to blow all the gunpowder at once," said Stelmach. Huh!!! - now that's leadership, Stelmach!


c’mon Fast Eddie – step up. In the past, King Ralph wasn’t afraid to challenge on the eve of a federal election (snicker).


yup… timing is everything – what exactly does Harper get out of this last minute announcement? Is he so desperate for that majority, he’d risk the ire of Albertans over the chance to gain "green votes" in Ontario, Quebec and B.C.? Oh wait… no risk here… in Alberta, a PC labeled dead dog catcher will still get elected.

North Guy66
30-09-2008, 11:40 AM
Ahhh yes. What ever happened to those "The West wants out!" people?

Medwards
30-09-2008, 11:43 AM
For once, it would be nice to hear what Jeff's opinion is....

MJ
30-09-2008, 11:45 AM
I'd give out my own opinion if I even knew what Jeff was talking about. Apparently this last minute announcement is supposed to be common knowledge?

raz0469
30-09-2008, 01:04 PM
http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/opinion/story.html?id=8bc20ff2-e7d9-4fe6-80b6-fc2367df874d

I don't know what to say at this point really. I'm not a partisan support of any of the parties, and judge them on their policies individually. This policy, if it is indeed a policy, is a pretty bad one for Alberta. I'm not sure why Harper even mentioned it, what his intentions were etc. It's really hard to say much about it since it's all so vague.

MJ
30-09-2008, 01:26 PM
Wow... no wonder Jeff didn't include a link to this story. It would have nullified his entire post. Thanks for the link raz.

So Harper expressed something ambiguously and what seems to be haphazardly. The article itself stated "The move shocked the oilpatch, the provincial government, and international trade law experts, who say the Harper plan could potentially violate both the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) and the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT)."

So something that cannot be done under the current rules we trade under...

Then Stelmach, who apparently did not show leadership in this situation according to Jeff expresses:
"I'm not one to blow all the gunpowder at once," said Stelmach, in his first public comments on the export ban. "We've got to see what these comments refer to and what they mean."

We've got to see what these comments refer to and what they mean. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand the quote that was purposely omitted.

So what is a leader?

- Someone that blows smoke when he does not even understand the situation
- Someone that waits to collect all the facts and information before passing judgment.

Stelmach took the second option and at this point, I don't see the issue.

I'm equally unsure why a PC apologist needs to stand up here. Don't we need to understand what exactly Harper is trying to get at here? His brief statement certainly needs some heavy followup.

moahunter
30-09-2008, 01:31 PM
While I think the Conservatives position is the right one (it could be even taken further, to ban bituman exports to the US), they are on very shaky ground if they try to do anything. These resource rights belong to Alberta, and the Federal government has no business regulating them. Any such law would likely be found to be illegal, just as the NEP ultimately was.

PS. It is also important to understand, that the Federal government is not planning to ban bituman exports. They do not anticipate that this move would stop the export of Bituman to the US - this is a "green" policy, aimed at developing countries like China who may use it in a "dirty" way.

Jeff
30-09-2008, 02:03 PM
Wow... no wonder Jeff didn't include a link to this story. It would have nullified his entire post. Thanks for the link raz.

ha! for someone who cried out for a google lifeline, you took a long PC apologist’s roundabout to get to your closing sentence… “His brief statement certainly needs some heavy followup”. (snicker).

you’re calling Harper’s NEP (National Export Plan) ambiguous… and haphazard – oh my! Perhaps try another google lifeline… Harper’s NEP announcement was hardly ambiguous at all.

seems Stelmach left it up to his Deputy Dawg to put Harper on notice… so which Stelmach leadership option was that?

MJ
30-09-2008, 02:43 PM
The only quote I read about the Deputy Premier stating anything was in the Globe and Mail published Saturday, online Friday:

“This new promise or campaign suggestion will create more uncertainty because, if nothing else it's going to impact the ability to sell this product. And that's never good for business,” Mr. Stevens said in an interview.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080927.ELECTION27/TPStory/?query=bitumen

As our Deputy Premier also holds the position called the Minister of International and Intergovernmental Relations, there is no doubt that he too would be quote-worthy regarding this situation. I do not see how approaching the guy in charge of International Relations for the province would be in anyway taking away from Stelmach's leadership. And the quote given, unless you are referring to a different one, is certainly not an adamant message to the Feds that you wished from Stelmach already.

Equally, I found this quote from Enbridge particularly interesting from the same article:
"We're surprised by today's announcement. We'll be looking for details," Enbridge spokeswoman Gina Jordan said.

So Stelmach wants more detail, Enbridge wants more detail.

So I suppose I'm google deficient as google news or google web could not find the detail I was interested in. Jeff, time for the google lifeline you offered -- and no I won't fall into tears over this. My google news and google web searches did not provide me with "Harper’s NEP announcement was hardly ambiguous at all."

So instead of telling us you have the facts, share the facts with us. This is certainly an important issue and this forum should not only be a place to provide your opinion, but more importantly, to share information.

raz0469
30-09-2008, 03:02 PM
But it's easier to simply troll for responses, and then pounce when someone does! Would you please just oblige him?

Medwards
30-09-2008, 03:06 PM
I remember a point in time jeff used to always ask for a citation...or a link... now he's crying foul because someone asks him of the same thing? Jeff? Come on man, you're better then this....

someone add an image of a hippo or something else to top off this thread...

DanC
30-09-2008, 03:21 PM
(chortle)

Jeff
30-09-2008, 04:01 PM
http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

lol – a “call for facts”… a “citation request”, no less.

buddies… c’mon, I’m a busy guy – I normally don’t have time to teach self-enlightenment classes to the uninformed or the misguided. But gather in – listen close: the Harper NEP campaign pledge has the stated clear intent to limit the export of bitumen. Are you suggesting otherwise?

you can parse Harper’s own words anyway you’d like… in that news conference Harper stated his election promise does not infringe on Alberta’s jurisdiction; that, as Harper stated, “ultimately, the federal government has significant control over exports, significant control over international trade and we're not prohibiting bitumen exports but what we will prohibit is bitumen exports designed to circumvent environmental regulation”.

now – apparently – the Canadian constitution guarantees provinces the control of natural resources… notwithstanding Harper’s NEP reach-around. (snicker… er… chortle)

raz0469
30-09-2008, 04:08 PM
But gather in – listen close: the Harper NEP campaign pledge has the stated clear intent to limit the export of bitumen. Are you suggesting otherwise?

We're saying that all we have to go on is a single sentence from a campaign whistle stop. It's difficult to say much other than "we're unable to comment in depth until we've received more information on the policy." As I said, it looks to be a bad policy, but what more can we say until we're provided with more than a single sentence?

MJ
30-09-2008, 04:20 PM
So Stelmach wants more details, Enbridge wants more details but Jeff thinks what we've been provided is enough to pass judgment?

There are no firm details or policy proposed for anyone sensible to pass judgment on.

I've been sucked into a thread with clear subjective agenda and pure rhetoric. Oops. I'll think wisely next time in choosing to join a non-discussion such as this.

Medwards
30-09-2008, 04:34 PM
http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

lol – a “call for facts”… a “citation request”, no less.

buddies… c’mon, I’m a busy guy – I normally don’t have time to teach self-enlightenment classes to the uninformed or the misguided.

Remember this post next time YOU ask for a citation... Guy smiley.

Jeff
30-09-2008, 04:37 PM
So Stelmach wants more details, Enbridge wants more details but Jeff thinks what we've been provided is enough to pass judgment?

There are no firm details or policy proposed for anyone sensible to pass judgment on.

I've been sucked into a thread with clear subjective agenda and pure rhetoric. Oops. I'll think wisely next time in choosing to join a non-discussion such as this.

interesting when the noobs feign indignation in the face of back-peddling


apparently, according to the noob, Harper’s NEP campaign pledge does not have the clear intent to limit the export of bitumen - go figure! Apparently, we’re to just ignore Harper’s own NEP pronouncements (snicker)

Medwards
30-09-2008, 04:45 PM
enough with the rhetoric, whats your actual opinion here Jeff?