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DebraW
17-10-2007, 09:13 AM
Moment of silence for Mike's loss
Caterina and Voogd have credibility gap

Scott McKeen, The Edmonton Journal
Published: October 17, 2007 3:05 am


Twenty-two things I have to say about the 2007 civic election before I wipe it from memory, for sanity's sake.

No. 1: First, a moment of silence for the passing of Mike Nickel's political career. Ladies and gentlemen, please remove party hats and bow your heads. (Hey you in the back, stop snickering). Tick, tick, tick. OK, that's long enough. Let the cheering and chortling begin.

No. 2: Dave Dowling, the sunglasses-wearing, Marijuana Party-representing, gonzo fringe candidate for mayor, is claiming victory. In Dave's excellent world, finishing a distant third, with less than two per cent of the vote is, like, you know, like, cool.

Full article: < http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/cityplus/story.html?id=6a242407-b93e-47e8-9e98-81e1ca4c5dd7 >.

-30-

Blueline
17-10-2007, 09:18 AM
Are we done yet?

sweetcrude
17-10-2007, 09:30 AM
Are we done yet?

Meh. If Waugh and Diotte can do it, McKeen should be allowed to as well. :wink:

I'm hoping the story doesn't stick around though, and I doubt it will. I can imagine McKeen sitting at his office mulling over what he was going to write and couldn't come up with anything other than continuing to criticize a guy whose political career did just come to an end. Even though I wasn't a Nickel fan, I can appreciate that vilifying him publicly for his loss isn't exactly necessary. Poor taste? Not too sure since it's a fine line, but... oh wait...


No. 4: Nickel is an energetic, intelligent guy with a great sense of humour. He has a beautiful family and bright future in business. While I was critical of his political style, I always liked the man. I sincerely wish him well in life. Sorry, dear reader, no punchline.

Yeah. That's just about how I feel. Thanks to Mr. McKeen.
:smt038

bornandraised
17-10-2007, 11:19 AM
Gee Scott, I'm sure your "kind" comments regarding Mike in point No. 4 make Mike and his "beautiful family" feel SO much better about the vitriolic vendetta you've carried out against him over the past three years, and in particular, over the past few weeks. I'm sure all is forgiven. :roll:

Now that city council is all going to play nice together (with one lone fiscal conservative who won't quite have a voice like Mike's to be heard about the socialist din), whatever will you write about? Maybe you'll have to quit your job -- please consider that. Seriously.

DanC
17-10-2007, 12:07 PM
Gee Scott, I'm sure your "kind" comments regarding Mike in point No. 4 make Mike and his "beautiful family" feel SO much better about the vitriolic vendetta you've carried out against him over the past three years, and in particular, over the past few weeks. I'm sure all is forgiven. :roll:

Now that city council is all going to play nice together (with one lone fiscal conservative who won't quite have a voice like Mike's to be heard about the socialist din), whatever will you write about? Maybe you'll have to quit your job -- please consider that. Seriously.
Mike Nickel fiscal conservative until it suits him.

Starter Wife
17-10-2007, 12:30 PM
I voted for Nickel, and am sorry he lost. He was often negative, but he asked bureaucrats a lot of questions about the city's poor planning record, and where we go in the future. He also did support some big dollar initiatives which the city needs.

Anderson won because he is very good at getting back to constituents.

I am leery of Iveson, but time will tell. My main concerns are his lack of work experience and his age though in the latter case, it may provide a new perspective.

I am disappointed in the lack of diversity on city council.

RichardS
17-10-2007, 12:57 PM
My issue with Mike was that his votes appeared opportunistic rather than based on opinion. They may not have been, but presentation is 9/10ths of the mark.

After all, you can be the lone voter AGAINST pay hikes, but at 12-1, you STILL GET a pay hike. That is just one example.

Fiscal conservativism is in my blood too, but at least I am open to debate. I know the payscale is not the best for the type of people we want to attract to place their names on the ballot box.

bornandraised
17-10-2007, 01:19 PM
So Richard -- if Mike was against the pay raise, then what did you expect him to do when it came time to vote? Abstain? Or vote for it when he didn't believe in it (or believe in the way it was being put through)? Or maybe just not show up that day.

I think he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't on this vote, with respect to what his non-fans would have said -- if he voted for it, I can't even imagine the wrath he would have faced for being such a hypocrite. I for one admire him for sticking to his principles and voting against it -- if he was one thing on council, it was consistent.

I'm getting the impression that people think City Council is supposed to be like a jury -- if everyone else is swaying to voting one way, you're just supposed to go along with them so everyone can go home.

Yes, Mike would have received the pay increase even after voting against it -- although from what I heard him say, he would have given back the increase on principle if there was a mechanism for doing that. He did say in the forum I was at that he would be giving most of his increase to charity. Given that the citizens of Edmonton did not get a chance to vote on the pay increase in a plebisite (which you will recall he introduced a motion for and was soundly defeated), they were at least able to vote on which candidates they felt deserved that kind of salary. I find it rather ironic that Edmontonians felt that all the councillors who voted for the increases actually deserved them, and the one councillor who voted against them apparently didn't, but I guess that's politics.

Given that Don Iveson's previous jobs have all been Student-Union funded or related, I'm sure his salary just tripled. As one of his constituents, I'll be expecting him to earn it.

McCauley resident
17-10-2007, 01:52 PM
Gee Scott, I'm sure your "kind" comments regarding Mike in point No. 4 make Mike and his "beautiful family" feel SO much better about the vitriolic vendetta you've carried out against him over the past three years, and in particular, over the past few weeks. I'm sure all is forgiven. :roll:

Now that city council is all going to play nice together (with one lone fiscal conservative who won't quite have a voice like Mike's to be heard about the socialist din), whatever will you write about? Maybe you'll have to quit your job -- please consider that. Seriously.

Scott McKeen already has his next victim picked out...

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/cityplus/story.html?id=6a242407-b93e-47e8-9e98-81e1ca4c5dd7

No. 6: Turns out the man who beat Voogd, Tony Caterina, also has a credibility gap -- between his lips. It revealed itself Tuesday when he opened his mouth and began flogging dead horses and picking at civic scabs. Sorry, mixed metaphor. At any rate, Caterina wants to reopen the City Centre Airport to full air service. Note to Caterina: The airports debate was decided by referendum in 1995.

No. 7: But if Caterina persists on reopening the debate, well, let's get it on. Let Edmontonians decide the most beneficial use for the City Centre Airport lands. After all, NAIT needs to expand. Residential development that close to downtown, along a future LRT line, makes sense. Developing the airport would bring hundreds of millions of dollars into city coffers.

No. 8: Another note to Caterina: Watch what you wish for.

North Guy66
17-10-2007, 02:31 PM
I find this comment interesting from today's Edmonton Journal...

http://tinyurl.com/2rqgqg

....Nickel, co-owner of his family's business, Western Marble Craft, didn't return calls from The Journal to talk about his plans.

But the one-term councillor briefly discussed his future Monday night at his campaign headquarters.

"Listen, I've been at it for longer than most," he was overhead saying to a photographer.

"At the end of the day, I'm going to go make some money, which I should've been doing for three years anyway."

RichardS
17-10-2007, 02:53 PM
I caught that in the Sun yesterday as well....

What are you saying Mike, you didn't make money as a councilor? But I thought this raise was outrageous and you were steadfast against it? Yet, I see that you didn't make money in this job - were you going broke?

This statement invalidates a lot of your position, and the Sun's. I know what you really meant to say - make considerably more money in the private sector - but the translation given your grandstanding on this issue...well...let's just be business correct and say the "optics are not in your favour." It could be an unfortunate emotional outburst from your loss, but the words are now in print.

Much ado about nothing...

McCauley resident
17-10-2007, 03:05 PM
"Listen, I've been at it for longer than most," he was overhead saying to a photographer.

"At the end of the day, I'm going to go make some money, which I should've been doing for three years anyway."
I am not sure if an eavesdropper got the exact quote "word for word".

My understanding is that the small family business is very successful financially - when Nickel left for politics, he not only took a major cut in pay but his brother & father had to work many more hours to fill the void.

But why let the facts get in the way when there is a continued concerted effort to conduct a smear job..... :roll:

RichardS
17-10-2007, 05:23 PM
I am not sure if an eavesdropper got the exact quote "word for word".

My understanding is that the small family business is very successful financially - when Nickel left for politics, he not only took a major cut in pay but his brother & father had to work many more hours to fill the void.

But why let the facts get in the way when there is a continued concerted effort to conduct a smear job..... :roll:

OK, the exact quote appeared in the Sun as a quote TO the Sun. So, I'd say the intent and wording is pretty much bang on. The Journal can't say "as said to an Edmonton Sun scribe...", but I am sure there is a photographer there...

So, smear job this isn't. Sorry. He was probably angry as all get out that he lost, Lord knows I would be, but to say that this pay raise was out of line and that the current renumeration is sufficient, only to say after defeat that it isn't enough, well...

It is just amazing to see a "fiscal conservative" prove the reason why most "fiscal conservatives" are not running for government - they make more money in the private sector. Regan said it best. Why the heck would I give up my X figure salary to deal with runny noses?

The_Cat
17-10-2007, 08:03 PM
I think it's time to look towards the future both for us and Mike Nickel.

peeved
17-10-2007, 08:48 PM
What did Mike Nickel ever do to you Richard,you sure seem intent on crucifing him.
As far as pay for councillors I think it should be based on a grid system,you come in at the bottom of the grid and work your way up to the top as you gain expierence; there could be six moves up the grid this would allow councillors ample time to learn the system before being payed top salary. Any increase would be a % of your salary at your grid level.Once you reach the top of the grid you remain there until you are defeated.

McCauley resident
17-10-2007, 09:03 PM
My understanding is that the small family business is very successful financially - when Nickel left for politics, he not only took a major cut in pay but his brother & father had to work many more hours to fill the void.

But why let the facts get in the way when there is a continued concerted effort to conduct a smear job..... :roll:

OK, the exact quote appeared in the Sun as a quote TO the Sun. So, I'd say the intent and wording is pretty much bang on. The Journal can't say "as said to an Edmonton Sun scribe...", but I am sure there is a photographer there...

So, smear job this isn't. Sorry. He was probably angry as all get out that he lost, Lord knows I would be, but to say that this pay raise was out of line and that the current renumeration is sufficient, only to say after defeat that it isn't enough, well...
First, nothing in Nickel's "overheard" quote stated that the pay for a City Councillor was not enough for the job - the fact he was running for re-election proves he believed the remuneration was sufficient for the City Council job.

He was just stating that he could have made more money elsewhere but chose to give up excess money to improve the City as an elected official...

Second, I have Tuesday's Edmonton Sun in front of me - I can not find that exact quote anywhere - please let me know where to find it.......... :wink:

McCauley resident
18-10-2007, 12:46 AM
But why let the facts get in the way when there is a continued concerted effort to conduct a smear job..... :roll:

OK, the exact quote appeared in the Sun as a quote TO the Sun. So, I'd say the intent and wording is pretty much bang on. The Journal can't say "as said to an Edmonton Sun scribe...", but I am sure there is a photographer there...

So, smear job this isn't.
Unless you can provide the quote, it appears to be part of the concerted effort to conduct a smear job by the Edmonton Journal. Not only that but it is another example of the misinformation & lack of journalistic integrity by the Edmonton Journal.

The Edmonton Sun election coverage is here: http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Election07/home.html

The closest quote was in the Andrew Hanon article...

He said last night he will be going back into the family business, Western MarbleCraft, and is looking forward to making some money.

As North Guy66 pointed out, the exact Edmonton Journal article stated:


Nickel, co-owner of his family's business, Western Marble Craft, didn't return calls from The Journal to talk about his plans.

But the one-term councillor briefly discussed his future Monday night at his campaign headquarters.

"Listen, I've been at it for longer than most," he was overhead saying to a photographer.

"At the end of the day, I'm going to go make some money, which I should've been doing for three years anyway."

This article was written by Gordon Kent from notes taken by Edmonton Journal arts writer Francois Marchand who claims he heard Mike Nickel talking to someone else...

Why were these supposedly accurate "word for word" quotes not used in the Tuesday morning Edmonton Journal coverage? It appears to me they just reworded the Edmonton Sun article because they were upset Nickel did not return their calls for their Wednesday story...

North Guy66
18-10-2007, 02:16 AM
from the link provided in the first post of this thread........

No. 16: OK, I'll play. Who might replace Mandel if he steps down after this term? Kim Krushell's blend of enthusiasm, work ethic, savvy and voter appeal would be tough to beat.

But Karen Leibovici is a legitimate contender, too.

But how about Castle Downs MLA Thomas Lukaszuk for mayor in 2010? Landslide Lukaszuk has been a good ally to Mandel these past three years, and the only Tory MLA to speak out against the provincial grant formula that short-changed Edmonton.

----------------------

I've said that all along. Kim Krushell has all of the tools plus the intangibles to make a serious run for mayor in the future.