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Sonic Death Monkey
29-03-2006, 09:34 PM
1. The old Saveco on Jasper and 108 Ave should be knocked down and an upscale retail plaza akin to the Allard Block (e.g. Jasper and 113 with Joeys and Second Cup) should be put in. With an LRT entrance right here, it's a no-brainer.

2. A moratorium on quickie-loan joints in the downtown core. They don't exactly provide an impressive image of downtown.

3. The confusing clusterf**k of roadways and bridges below the Hotel Mac needs to be redone. What were they thinking back then?

4. Rice Howard Way should be pedestrian-only.

5. Instead of some silly gondola from Jasper Ave to the new McKinney Park, would it be feasible to tunnel a pedway from the Shaw or Canada Place to the park, or across the street from it?

6. Did anyone ever ask why Dell is erecting a new building near South Edmonton Common instead of downtown?

7. Once the EPCOR plant is decommissioned, turn it into our version of Granville Island (Vancouver) or Eau Claire (Calgary). The big building cannot be knocked down due to historical designation, so I could see a big funky street market opening up in there along with some restaurants and a pub or two. Use the chimney stacks to build an observation tower. Move the Edmonton Queen launch there, or at least set up a pick-up/drop-off point. Integrate it with the burial grounds and Telus Field.

8. Make the High Level trolley train fully operational - let people commute between Old Strathcona and downtown on the damn thing. Expand it down the middle of Jasper from 109 St to 97 St (and killing another bird by ridding J-Ave of those hideous islands). Otherwise shut it down and open up the top of the High Level for cars or a bus lane if a new bridge is not doable.

RichardS
29-03-2006, 09:47 PM
OK...welcome Sonic Death Monkey...:)


1. From what I understand, the Saveco site is going to be a country music bar. Otherwise, an "upscale" retail site makes sense...although the Allard block is not really what I would call upscale - just my opinion but it is a nice "suburban strip mall".

2. A-freaking-men!!! Just how many more Money Marts do we need?

3. It is called the METS plan ( or many elements went into this). I think MylesC can shed some light here, but it involved a few more "freeways" than what we have now.

4. Agreed.

5. Pedway = underground = hidden = boring. No street life and no interest.

6. Yes - they wanted that style of a building and they found the land deal a la Bill Smith from what I am told. A lot of the employees like the TELUS Plaza locale with its LRT, but the new building caters to the CSR. They have specific and timed breaks, and waiting for elevators cuts too much into that time. That is just one functional reason.

7. That idea has a lot of legs in this forum. Maybe start a thread catering to the redevelopent of Rossdale? I think that would be a great discussion topic.

8. ANOTHER great topic to break out onto its own thread. Put this one in transportation...

Sonic Death Monkey
29-03-2006, 11:30 PM
1. From what I understand, the Saveco site is going to be a country music bar. Otherwise, an "upscale" retail site makes sense...although the Allard block is not really what I would call upscale - just my opinion but it is a nice "suburban strip mall".
I guess why I consider it more upscale than your garden-variety strip mall is the pedestrian-friendly layout, especially the little plaza in the middle.

ShermanT
30-03-2006, 12:49 AM
4. Rice Howard Way should be pedestrian-only.


YES! One of the few initmate eurpopean street style places in Edmonton and they allow cars to drive around in there. What a waste. The place could be great with pedestrian only traffic.

MylesC
30-03-2006, 08:12 AM
In regards to RHW, it's a wonderful combination of people and cars and more European than a people only street would be from what I've seen on my travels.

As for the highway area of death near the Mac, basically the entire area was supposed to be redone when the Mill Creek freeway was built. Of course, that never happened so the system down there never got changed and we have a major downtown route funneling traffic onto 99th, one of the ugliest roads in town.

Sonic Death Monkey
30-03-2006, 09:09 PM
...continued from first post

9. A gondola under the High Level Bridge!

10. If the river valley is supposed to be this great tourist draw according to the usual booster types, then why not have guided tours of the valley?

11. What would it take to persuade some of the car dealerships to move out of Whyte Ave? The one Chevy dealer squats on 3 blocks of prime Whyte Ave land, while the Toyota dealer contributes to the empty buffer between west and east of the tracks. Oh, and do something about that empty lot across from Chapters already.

12. The High Street area along 124 St is looking good as another Whyte Ave type of high-pedestrian area. It's already blessed with good restaurants and interesting shops. I could see it as our Robson Street with high-end fashion stores setting up shop there instead of in the Big Mall From Hell. But it needs more parking, and maybe a festival that can do what the Fringe did for Old Strathcona - to attract the crowds. How about a parade down 124? A small handful of upscale bars and nightclubs would help bring people there at night, as long as it doesn't turn into the same Electric Ave chaos as Whyte Ave. And try to integrate the Royal Alberta Museum more with the area, because that can be a good anchor attraction for High Street pedestrians.

13. Sonic 102.9 should go back to broadcasting out of a trailer, but on Whyte Ave or downtown. C'mon, it's a neat idea - it gives them that quasi-pirate-radio feel, and it would be a unique addition to whatever neighborhood they're in. Plus they'd be following the trend of other stations going "street-level". They can even setup a stage beside the trailer for local performances.

...more as I think of them!

highlander
30-03-2006, 09:53 PM
Re: #11- Edmonton motors on Jasper from 114 to 116 is also a space hog. Why do we not have 2-3 level showrooms, rooftop used cars and basement mehanics?
Healy Ford is bad too, it's just off the main drag.

MylesC
31-03-2006, 12:29 AM
13. Sonic 102.9 should go back to broadcasting out of a trailer, but on Whyte Ave or downtown. C'mon, it's a neat idea - it gives them that quasi-pirate-radio feel, and it would be a unique addition to whatever neighborhood they're in. Plus they'd be following the trend of other stations going "street-level". They can even setup a stage beside the trailer for local performances.

Heh, that would be funky :D

Maybe they could use that stage behind the library for all kinds of stuff? That plaza has a lot of potential.

RichardS
31-03-2006, 12:39 AM
you know... I like that. Cool radio near Churchill...

RichardS
31-03-2006, 12:42 AM
...continued from first post

9. A gondola under the High Level Bridge!



See HERE...CLICK. (http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?t=153)

CSR
31-03-2006, 10:59 AM
you know... I like that. Cool radio near Churchill...

Yeah, that's supposed to be the CBC with their new studio's that they now have no money to do anything with.

We have 3 TV stations located downtown but you would never know it.


Cast my vote to make rice howard way pedestrain only, at least in the summer. I know European roads have cars on them as well but they are all Rice Howard waylike. We need a pedestrain refuge. We also need something behind the Library to link that to RHW so people will walk from 102 all the way through to the citadel.

We also need some trees in the middle of Churchill Square. You can get some big concrete planters that are 10-15 across that will support large trees. Then you use and industrial forklift to move them when you need clear space.

We should offr tax breaks or some sort of incentive to businesses and developers that have street facing retail every 100 ft or less. We still have a few too many "long marches" along the outside of buildings with interior malls.

How about a contest, with real prize money - over 10k first prize, for businesses that have the nicest floral landcaping in the summer?

How about we glass over a couple of downtown streets? Put in a few heating elements? Try and keep people outside a bit longer when the six months of cold and dark sets itn.

IanO
31-03-2006, 11:35 AM
now this is a little left field, definately wacky, and no where near brilliant...


how about we:


-encourage good urban design
-encourage better cleanliness of our streets/sidewalks
-add more green
-market downtown better
-have density/public space bonusing for developers


and completely unrealistic and wont happen, but perhaps we could....

identify the problems in the downtown and actually work towards fixing them.

murman
31-03-2006, 01:27 PM
now this is a little left field, definately wacky, and no where near brilliant...


how about we:


-encourage good urban design
-encourage better cleanliness of our streets/sidewalks
-add more green
-market downtown better
-have density/public space bonusing for developers


and completely unrealistic and wont happen, but perhaps we could....

identify the problems in the downtown and actually work towards fixing them.

Where's that "dreamer" emoticon ! :wink:

IanO
31-03-2006, 02:16 PM
now this is a little left field, definately wacky, and no where near brilliant...


how about we:


-encourage good urban design
-encourage better cleanliness of our streets/sidewalks
-add more green
-market downtown better
-have density/public space bonusing for developers


and completely unrealistic and wont happen, but perhaps we could....

identify the problems in the downtown and actually work towards fixing them.

Where's that "dreamer" emoticon ! :wink:


i believe you can find it in vancouver or toronto.

Sonic Death Monkey
31-03-2006, 07:27 PM
now this is a little left field, definately wacky, and no where near brilliant...


how about we:


-encourage good urban design
-encourage better cleanliness of our streets/sidewalks
-add more green
-market downtown better
-have density/public space bonusing for developers


and completely unrealistic and wont happen, but perhaps we could....

identify the problems in the downtown and actually work towards fixing them.

Uhm...I do believe that some of the ideas in this forum do address some of your points.

Sonic Death Monkey
31-03-2006, 07:57 PM
....continuing

14. Dump the Capital Ex thing, and replace it with something even bigger: NNE = Northern National Exhibition, or WNE = Western National Exhibition. Vancouver has the PNE and Toronto has the CNE, why not do something in that vein here? The fair runs at the same as the Grand Prix, depending on how long we have it. What better way of promoting an annual national exhibition?

15. Downtown needs at least one high-quality movie complex in the same ballpark as Silver City or SEC. Don't know about the other big cities, but Toronto has these theatres in their downtown. Let's face it, people are drawn to the superior sound and picture quality of those movie houses, but I'm sure the central dwellers are tired of having to go all the way to the farthest suburbs to enjoy them. If the City Centre theatre can upgrade from the 1980s then great. Otherwise there are some empty buildings in the core that would be perfect for one. Or maybe that can be another addition to a redeveloped Rossdale plant.

Sonic Death Monkey
02-04-2006, 05:44 PM
16. The plaza behind the library:

We also need something behind the Library to link that to RHW so people will walk from 102 all the way through to the citadel.
I walked by there today, and the plaza behind the library looks nice, and even has a built-in stage. The big problem is that it is invisible and isolated by entrances to the underground library parkade. Do these parkade entrances really need those tall, long roofs??? If not, knock them down so that this plaza is more integrated with its surroundings and more accessible and visible to pedestrians.

17. Another idea for the old Saveco on Jasper and 108. I don't see any signs of a country bar taking shape, so just knock the whole ugly thing down completely and put in a plaza with some smaller retail on the 3 sides. The sidewalk is narrowed by the LRT entrance and gives pedestrians claustrophobia - it should be opened up more. A couple of cafes and small specialty shops in this proposed plaza with some public tables in the middle can be a nice complement to Audrey's.

CSR
02-04-2006, 09:08 PM
16. The plaza behind the library:

We also need something behind the Library to link that to RHW so people will walk from 102 all the way through to the citadel.
I walked by there today, and the plaza behind the library looks nice, and even has a built-in stage. The big problem is that it is invisible and isolated by entrances to the underground library parkade. Do these parkade entrances really need those tall, long roofs??? If not, knock them down so that this plaza is more integrated with its surroundings and more accessible and visible to pedestrians.


It would still, I think, need something in it. ( I think most people have forgotten about the stage... it was used the first year it was built, then nothing. Maybe it can be scheduled by the same booking office that handles Churchill? )

Yes, getting rid of the bunkers would help as would re -arranging the sidewalk so it leads more naturally to that plaza, rather than being off to the side.

Maybe it could be a good place for a weekly book market and trading fair in the summer? Add in other collectibles like comic books and stuff. In the winter maybe some sort of christmas light display?

Funk E-Town
03-04-2006, 02:10 PM
Brilliant and wacky eh?

1 - Swap The Army Base with the International Airport... New airport location would have LRT connection (Clareview is close...) and awesome access - this would also answer the Northern Demands to re-open the muni...

2 - Take the fleet of Trolley Busses everyone wants to get rid of and plant them in the ground sticking out like the Cadillac Sculptures in Texas - on Gateway Boulevard maybe - to hide South Edmonton Common...

3 - re-name EEDC edmonton.com - no-one knows what EEDC stands for - still. Also sell something on your web-site (I dunno... like hotel rooms, car rentals, flights to Edmonton or something...)

4 - Return Klondike Mike, Kate and the donkey to the Yukon - with an official appology from our Mayor - They deserve at least that!

5 - Annex Stony Plain, Spuce Grove, St Albert, Sherwood park etc... I don't know why Edmonton is building a ring road with my money to accomodate them....

6 - Rename Stony Plain Road from 139 Street - West - back to Jasper Avenue - and get rid of the junky peep shows and second hand stores: this is the last thing our tourists see when they leave Edmonton on their way to the mountains... yuk.

7 - Let the River Boat become a Casino

8 - Cover Rice Howard Way - make it pedestrian-only and turn it into a year round market (like Granville Island)

RichardS
03-04-2006, 02:32 PM
Brilliant and wacky eh?

1 - Swap The Army Base with the International Airport... New airport location would have LRT connection (Clareview is close...) and awesome access - this would also answer the Northern Demands to re-open the muni...

Won't happen, it would be cheaper to make Gateway free flowing or extend the LRT. The budget to build the new terminal alone would be Gateway...


2 - Take the fleet of Trolley Busses everyone wants to get rid of and plant them in the ground sticking out like the Cadillac Sculptures in Texas - on Gateway Boulevard maybe - to hide South Edmonton Common...

:lol: :lol:


3 - re-name EEDC edmonton.com - no-one knows what EEDC stands for - still. Also sell something on your web-site (I dunno... like hotel rooms, car rentals, flights to Edmonton or something...)

EEDC - Edmonton Economic Development Corporation. It's splashed all over their website. As for selling links...that could get us into hot water as we do not rely on advertising, yet if we promoted one over the other....oh the letters! :) However, if we could come up with an arrangement that worked, we'd be open to it.


4 - Return Klondike Mike, Kate and the donkey to the Yukon - with an official appology from our Mayor - They deserve at least that!

:lol: :lol:


5 - Annex Stony Plain, Spuce Grove, St Albert, Sherwood park etc... I don't know why Edmonton is building a ring road with my money to accomodate them....

The ring road is also for transport trucks accessing CANAMEX et al...note that the new intermodals are along the AHD and within the city limits...

SG and Stony are pretty much not a need to annex. All that farmland would be a bad thing, the County of Parkland can manage that. St Albert and Sherwood are right on our border, and SP being a hamlet is an insult to other hamlets struggling to survive.


6 - Rename Stony Plain Road from 139 Street - West - back to Jasper Avenue - and get rid of the junky peep shows and second hand stores: this is the last thing our tourists see when they leave Edmonton on their way to the mountains... yuk.

Rename Stony Road? Stony Plain is the name of a geologic area that we sit on/near, not the 7000 person town. However, as someone who lived in Parkview, I TOTALLY agree about moving the sex/pawn/cash shops off Stony. What a freaking joke and blight that is...

Also, make 100th one way into town and 101 (Stony) one way out. If Gateway/Cal Trail businesses can make this work, the XXX and cash stores on Stony can too.


7 - Let the River Boat become a Casino

Hmmm....


8 - Cover Rice Howard Way - make it pedestrian-only and turn it into a year round market (like Granville Island)

Neat idea. Maybe someone should take this one as its own topic?

Dusty Bear
03-04-2006, 03:18 PM
Brilliant and wacky eh?


5 - Annex Stony Plain, Spuce Grove, St Albert, Sherwood park etc... I don't know why Edmonton is building a ring road with my money to accomodate them....



Actually, the ring road is funded with provincial money. So yes, you're paying for it. But so are residents in Stony Plain, Spruce Grove, Sherwood Park, St. Albert, etc. . . .

RichardS
03-04-2006, 03:34 PM
yep...now to get the Yellowhead with the same designation...

Dusty Bear
03-04-2006, 04:05 PM
yep...now to get the Yellowhead with the same designation...

Wouldn't that be great? Then there'd be funding to replace the intersections with proper interchanges.

It does serve a much larger purpose than just local traffic. The Yellowhead is part of a west/east trade route. Just look at all the transport trucks that use it . . .

Titanium48
08-04-2006, 11:16 PM
Also, make 100th one way into town and 101 (Stony) one way out. If Gateway/Cal Trail businesses can make this work, the XXX and cash stores on Stony can too.

I like it. You'd be creating a bottleneck at 149 St though.

RichardS
09-04-2006, 02:27 AM
I like it. You'd be creating a bottleneck at 149 St though.

Yep, I know. Used to live on that street....

However, w/o the ravine road, that will be the bottleneck forever..

Citysource
26-04-2006, 11:11 PM
BAM!! for Sonic Death Monkey's Ideas

These two ideas Rock the Kasba - too have had them every time I jog past the EPCOR plant or walk home across the trolley tacks - I live on 110 Street.

7. Once the EPCOR plant is decommissioned, turn it into our version of Granville Island (Vancouver) or Eau Claire (Calgary). The big building cannot be knocked down due to historical designation, so I could see a big funky street market opening up in there along with some restaurants and a pub or two. Use the chimney stacks to build an observation tower. Move the Edmonton Queen launch there, or at least set up a pick-up/drop-off point. Integrate it with the burial grounds and Telus Field.

8. Make the High Level trolley train fully operational - let people commute between Old Strathcona and downtown on the damn thing. Expand it down the middle of Jasper from 109 St to 97 St (and killing another bird by ridding J-Ave of those hideous islands). Otherwise shut it down and open up the top of the High Level for cars or a bus lane if a new bridge is not doable.

Great ideas Sonic Death Monkey

murman
27-04-2006, 01:57 PM
7. Once the EPCOR plant is decommissioned, turn it into our version of Granville Island (Vancouver) or Eau Claire (Calgary).

Ummm... Eau Claire has been a gargantuan failure. Might not want to emulate that. :)

And every time I hear some city say they want to create their one Granville Island, I can smell the failure even before the project breaks ground. Cities everywhere are littered with failed Granville Island wannabes.

Sonic Death Monkey
27-04-2006, 02:11 PM
Well, I'm still waiting to hear your own brilliant ideas on what to do with the Rossdale plant after 2009. :?:

IanO
27-04-2006, 04:27 PM
Well, I'm still waiting to hear your own brilliant ideas on what to do with the Rossdale plant after 2009. :?:


I'll answer for Murman:


- new class AA space for multinationals
- "port alberta 2"
- walmart

RichardS
27-04-2006, 04:49 PM
- walmart


:lol:

Sonic Death Monkey
27-04-2006, 10:52 PM
I wouldn't put it past them to approve such a thing. :?

murman
28-04-2006, 10:49 AM
Lovin' the comments. Wish I had more time to lay my thoughts out in detail, but I don't have that luxury right now.

My primary concept would be "urban village"... cutting edge medium density residential on top of street level commercial. Nothing "touristy". Instead, a place where people want to go for a non-traditional retail/restaurant experience.

I know that might sound similar to other "granville" concepts being touted here, but it isn't. Maybe I'll have time to explain further soon.

Just lose the "market" concept. The abject failures elsewhere FAR outnumber the few successes....

Sonic Death Monkey
28-04-2006, 11:08 AM
No, I get what you're saying. We're on the same page because my main thing is to see some riverside restaurants, bars and mixed-use residential and businesses that will bring more people to the river valley other than joggers and cyclists. Plus it will bridge the gap between Kinsmen Park and the Telus field area. I agree that it shouldn't be Fisherman's Wharf touristy, apart from the historical burial grounds beside it providing a good opportunity for an interpretative centre on the pioneers and aboriginals that are buried there. If the development is appealing enough for us urban dwellers, the tourists will come anyway.

IanO
28-04-2006, 03:39 PM
you hit it murman...


i want to see all that crap housing outta there...and replaced with arbutus style housing....some townhouses and 4-8 storey condos with corner retail/resto.

Make it akin to the feeling of those townhouses et al in Rossdale just NW.

make it a place you want to live, eat, play, and attract others to.

canucklehead
29-04-2006, 09:24 PM
1-Build a river gondola network on the North Saskatchewan River so people could take boats from Rundle Park to downtown, and southward to Hawrelak Park and Tewilligar Park in the SW.

2-Start a new local Edmonton TV (or internet) station and have it broadcast from downtown Edmonton on a moving basis, with concerts from Library Plaza.

3-Take over the Paramount Theatre as a live venue and indy art house theatre, maybe for Cdn movies.

4-Fill in all the gaps along Jasper Avenue (parkettes, parking lots) with modular buildings until skyscrapers are viable on the sites.

5-Turn the Rossdale Power Plant into a "tate modern" style art gallery, with small scale shops and bistros.

6-At some point build a really tall skyscraper with a good observation deck. Screw the downtown airport, we need a kickass tower!

7-Maybe a river valley trolly

8-An upgraded year round High Level Bridge Trolly/LRT line from Whyte Avenue to at least Jasper Avenue.

Sonic Death Monkey
29-04-2006, 09:51 PM
1-Build a river gondola network on the North Saskatchewan River so people could take boats from Rundle Park to downtown, and southward to Hawrelak Park and Tewilligar Park in the SW.
I think the Edmonton Queen could utilized as a water taxi, with stops/pick-ups at Hawrelak, Terwillegar and whatever is developed at the Rossdale plant.


2-Start a new local Edmonton TV (or internet) station and have it broadcast from downtown Edmonton on a moving basis, with concerts from Library Plaza.
Not sure if there's a market for a 6th local TV station (CTV, CBC, Global, CHUM and Shaw).


3-Take over the Paramount Theatre as a live venue and indy art house theatre, maybe for Cdn movies.I prefer the art film house idea. I don't think the Paramount is suitable for concerts because that requires a backstage area.


4-Fill in all the gaps along Jasper Avenue (parkettes, parking lots) with modular buildings until skyscrapers are viable on the sites.Yes, there are too many parking lots. There's enough room beside the BP on Jasper for some mixed-use development (retail, restaurant, bar) while retaining the parking lot behind it, and maybe something smaller-scale beside The Bank UltraLounge.


5-Turn the Rossdale Power Plant into a "tate modern" style art gallery, with small scale shops and bistros.Mixed use, baby!


6-At some point build a really tall skyscraper with a good observation deck. Screw the downtown airport, we need a kickass tower!
http://www.twingables.ca/images/calgary_tower/tower_close.jpg


7-Maybe a river valley trolly
That likely wouldn't fly with river valley protectionists. I prefer Mandel's water taxi idea.


8-An upgraded year round High Level Bridge Trolly/LRT line from Whyte Avenue to at least Jasper Avenue.Yo, quit stealing my ideas!!! :P
I agree, except extend the trolley line down the middle of J-Ave to the Shaw. That can give tourists a lovely trip through downtown, across the river valley and into Old Strathcona.

canucklehead
29-04-2006, 10:04 PM
Well, I think the economics of TV will change over the next few years, especially with the advancements in digital broadcasting technology. A conventional TV station format running the same American crap no, but more like an low budget, low power indy station that would be broadcast live, I could see that.

I just think the city needs an outlet for Edmonton tv producers and so far we don't have one. Pretty much all the local content that used to be produced has been cancelled. Does anyone remember Day by Day with Sienna Collins, the Cynthia Kurulok fitness show to name just a few?

Mix those with a few talk shows, maybe a couple of made in Edmonton low budget scripted shows, concerts, cdn movies, and we could easily put together a great local tv station.