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DebraW
02-01-2007, 10:27 AM
Does the spike in the city's homicides in the last two years trouble you?

Yes, we live in a more violent world.

LindseyT
02-01-2007, 10:35 AM
Not at all. The vast majority could be traced to some bad decision made by the victim. Getting in a bad relationship, drug related, high risk lifestyle....

I'm a 20 something university student who's idea of a fun night is having a few drinks at a pub. I fear crashing through the ice on the ski-doos or rolling the atv much more than getting knived or shot.

DebraW
02-01-2007, 11:04 AM
Not at all. The vast majority could be traced to some bad decision made by the victim. Getting in a bad relationship, drug related, high risk lifestyle...

LindseyT I respect your opinion but I absolutely abhor and will not tolerate any blaming of victims or shifting of responsibility.

Yes, you do offset the comment with “the vast majority” but nonetheless IMO this does a huge disservice to all victims and their survivors.

What bad decision did Evan James Grykuliak, 17, make when he left his birthday party only to be confronted by party-crashers?

IMO no one thinks that this chain of events could lead to tragic consequences. Yes, drugs, high risk lifestyles and bad relationships can and do factor in some murders but as long as there is any push back to the victim, most people will continue to believe that Edmonton (and the world) is fine as long as… This “it could/will never happen to me” thought process is simply not true as sometimes things just happen.

A few years ago, I was a victim of “random” violence, which nearly killed me—what was my bad decision—leaving work.

grish
02-01-2007, 11:29 AM
Not at all. The vast majority could be traced to some bad decision made by the victim. Getting in a bad relationship, drug related, high risk lifestyle....

I'm a 20 something university student who's idea of a fun night is having a few drinks at a pub. I fear crashing through the ice on the ski-doos or rolling the atv much more than getting knived or shot.

perhaps you should write a book on how to be perfect.

or, perhaps, a guide to putting one's foot into one's mouth on a weekly basis.

LindseyT
02-01-2007, 11:32 AM
I'm certainly not trying to blame any victims.

The question was, am I troubled by the increase in homicides. I'm not invloved in a drug lifestyle, a violent relationship, I'm not a hooker (btw Lindsey, in this case, is a guys name...), I don't work in a high risk business like a liquor or convenience store, I don't associate with questionable characters (err I guess GregK might qualify :lol: ) ..... What do I have to be troubled about.

Yes, people like you and me can be in the wrong place at the wrong time. But If I was to worry about that possibilty and keep thinking about it then I would have to worry just as much as getting killed in a car crash, or much more likely, getting diagnosed with something like cancer. I'd imagine the probablity of being a homocide victim is less then getting killed in a car crash or having my life cut short by something like cancer.


Perhaps the two choices aren't exclusive to one another. We are living in a more violent world, but for the most part that increase in violence has been with people on the fringes of society.

highlander
02-01-2007, 12:23 PM
I voted no, because I do think that things will drop off a bit in a few years.

I also do not feel threatened by the current levels/patterns of violence. My riskiest activity is waiting on the platform at coliseum station at 6pm.

On the other hand, Violence is by nature troubling. As a member of our society, not a detatched observer, and as a parent, I am troubled by the high levels of alcoholism and drug abuse that lead to many violent incidents. I am troubled by the gang culture that is somehowso big in popular culture right now. I'm troubled by the debased ideas of manliness that make young men seek violent ways to prove themselves. I'm troubled by the number of kids that have no good role models in their lives. I'm troubled that good kids need a liquor licence for a 17th birthday party, and that parents don't bat an eye. But if we had 2 murders a year many of these things would still be troubleing.

DebraW
02-01-2007, 02:02 PM
I'm certainly not trying to blame any victims.

The question was, am I troubled by the increase in homicides. I'm not invloved in a drug lifestyle, a violent relationship, I'm not a hooker (btw Lindsey, in this case, is a guys name...), I don't work in a high risk business like a liquor or convenience store, I don't associate with questionable characters (err I guess GregK might qualify :lol: ) ..... What do I have to be troubled about.

Yes, people like you and me can be in the wrong place at the wrong time. But If I was to worry about that possibilty and keep thinking about it then I would have to worry just as much as getting killed in a car crash, or much more likely, getting diagnosed with something like cancer. I'd imagine the probablity of being a homocide victim is less then getting killed in a car crash or having my life cut short by something like cancer.

Perhaps the two choices aren't exclusive to one another. We are living in a more violent world, but for the most part that increase in violence has been with people on the fringes of society.

Fair points I am overly sensitive around violence. I do not worry about becoming caught up in a gang shooting or riot, as I do not live a “high-risk” lifestyle by any definition.

However, with that said in the last two months I have been stuck in a Macs Convenience store near the university as a group of kids (ages 13-17 would be my guess) started a punch up and shoving match. Thank goodness, there were no guns or the weapon of choice knives brandished.

Just yesterday, while returning books to my suburban library in the vestibule I was confronted by a man demanding money, a smoke or a kiss before he would let me leave.

My VERY well placed knee "Kiss" made him change his stance (in many ways!) and release his grip on my arm. Yes, the library was closed but this was at 2 pm in suburbia for crikes sake. I did call the police general dispatch # as the community police station that is 100 yards away was closed. What was the time for EPS to respond? I have no idea as after 45 minutes I had to leave and the man had gathered up his “stuff” and shuffled (I placed my response very well!) off some 40 minutes prior.

I guess I should have mentioned to dispatch that he was smoking in the vestibule perhaps that would have spurred action. Bylaw infraction and all!

(BTW, I never made any distinction about gender by your name, as I have known many Lindseys from both.)

Therefore, while I do not worry endlessly I am vigilant at all times. Violence can and does occur in the least likely of places to the least likely of people and to my mind acknowledging can only go a long way to rectifying the problem.

Dusty Bear
02-01-2007, 02:43 PM
I voted no, but it's too early to say whether it's a blip. My crystal ball hasn't been working so well as of late.

However, I do take issue with any statements that we live in a more violent world. The facts (http://www.police.edmonton.ab.ca/Pages/Crime%20Statistics/_private/Internet%20Offence%20Stats%202001-2005.pdf) simply do not carry that out. According to the EPS stats for 2001-2005, violent crime has gone down, even while the population has increased. At the same time, the overall crime rate has stayed relatively the same.

Yes, there have been more murders in the last couple of years. I can only surmise why. But I get what LindseyT was trying to say, even if it did not come out so well. Most homicides are not random. You are more likely to be killed by someone you know (i.e. in a domestic dispute) than you are by a complete stranger. Some of the "victims" of last year's murders were involved in gangs, or drugs, or crime. Hardly what I'd call innocent.

Now that's no consolation for Evan Grykuliak's family. I acknowledge that horrible things sometimes happen to good people.

But I'm not going to let a few isolated incidents make me feel less safe. I prefer to rely on fact rather than reacting to sensationalist headlines in the tabloids.

LindseyT
02-01-2007, 02:55 PM
I do find it odd that you've ended up in multiple situations where you have felt unsafe. Honestly, outside of your typical junior/senior high "boys being boys" moments I've never felt remotely threatened. Unfortunatly, I guess it wouldn't be surprising that woman find themself's feeling threatened more often. I've never thought of this from the female perspective, but I'm not sure if it is any different in any other city or in the past.




(BTW, I never made any distinction about gender by your name, as I have known many Lindseys from both.)


yeah, I just thought that because I was mentioning myself not being a prostitute it was only fair to clarify any possible confusion.

North Guy66
02-01-2007, 03:19 PM
Yes that is LindseyT's point.....most people are killed by someone they know whether they live a high-risk lifestyle or not.

I think fear can be contributed by the sensationalistic media. When every stabbing, murder and assault gets front page news and top billing on the newscast, people start to wonder if that is the only thing going on in this city.

Dusty Bear
02-01-2007, 03:42 PM
I think fear can be contributed by the sensationalistic media. When every stabbing, murder and assault gets front page news and top billing on the newscast, people start to wonder if that is the only thing going on in this city.

I remember hearing from a former ITV reporter about a study of the station's news coverage. Roughly 80 per cent of the news was about crime. Hmmm, so does that reflect what's really happening in the city?

DebraW
02-01-2007, 03:52 PM
I do find it odd that you've ended up in multiple situations where you have felt unsafe. Honestly, outside of your typical junior/senior high "boys being boys" moments I've never felt remotely threatened. Unfortunatly, I guess it wouldn't be surprising that woman find themself's feeling threatened more often. I've never thought of this from the female perspective, but I'm not sure if it is any different in any other city or in the past.


(BTW, I never made any distinction about gender by your name, as I have known many Lindseys from both.)


yeah, I just thought that because I was mentioning myself not being a prostitute it was only fair to clarify any possible confusion.
Yeah, woman feel threatened (as IMO they are threatened) much more than men. I have been fortunate to have lived in three countries, have traveled to over 55+ countries, and this gender inequality when it comes to safety and violence is not unique to Edmonton. Are these concerns and issues more prevalent than in the past? No, I do not believe so. What I do think has changed is the globalization of mass media makes statistics and stories more readily available thus killings that never would have been common knowledge can now be known to anyone with access to the WWW, TV, radio or a newspaper.

As for my own encounters, I put it down to being a very active person with involvement in many different things in multiple places. I am often afraid, as I know too well that there ARE monsters out there but I will never and have never let that stop me from undertaking anything. I guess what also differentiates me is that I contest “boy will be boys” and “youth will be youth” as an acceptable mindset. Things will never change until people stand up and state, “enough is enough,” (shamelessly borrowed from the City and EPS media campaign.)

I do violence education and in classes, MEN often have the most responses. Males mention that they had been or felt threatened and how this surprised them. Does not surprise me as IMO this is because women are conditioned to be wary and like it or not we are often the (physically) “weaker” sex and thus more often the recipient of threats and violence. Generally, males do not feel comfortable expressing worries about their safety but this does not mean that the thoughts are not there. MacEwan and the U of A have “Safewalk” programs but the majority of my male classmates would never consider utilizing the service although many have mentioned that they used an informal “buddy” system…safety in numbers.

BTW, I am also a crisis line volunteer and I speak to more male prostitutes than female workers so I would not have used this to gender you either. :wink:

CSR
02-01-2007, 10:51 PM
I can't vote in the poll, as while I don't think it's a blip, and I think it's significant, I do not think society as a whole is getting more violent, nor do I personally feel worried.

I believe it's a matter of some concern, as I do many many issues facing our city. But it is only one of many, and not in a psoition of pre-eminence.

DanC
03-01-2007, 01:03 AM
Nah I don't, I'm more worried about the amount of booze I put in me than I do about getting beat up or murdered...really this is despite me being a brash, mouthy, jerk most of the time. I guess you just have to know who to talk to, who to avoid and when the situation is bad.

Medwards
03-01-2007, 10:58 AM
I really dont see any increases in violent crime.
Bars fights happen.
Knifings happen.
Shootings happen.
**** happens.

Is it happening at an increased rate? I dont think so. Is the media over-sensationalizing things? I think so.

Have I ever been affected by it? Sure, once when I was younger, and downtown, I got robbed in the manulife food court of all places. A bunch of teens surrounding me, and demanded my (leather) jacket and my money, and I gave them what they wanted, and still got punched in the head.

Do I feel I need to avoid certain places and areas of the city? No, not really. I feel that one should always watch his/her back anywhere. Sure, some areas suffer from more crime,

I certainly dont blame the victim in most cases, but some I do. Not that its the victims fault - but what were you thinking walking up that alley at 2 am at night? or What did you think would happen when you started beaking off to those thug-looking creatures downtown/whyte ave? For sure, theres tons of crime that happens , regardless of if the victim calls for it or not, some people are just in the right place at the right time. But I certainly can't say myself that all violent crimes are solely to blame on the offender.

DebraW
04-01-2007, 12:51 PM
UPDATE:

This is the results of the Edmonton Sun Poll.

Does the spike in the city's homicides in the last two years trouble you?

Yes, we live in a more violent world. 90%

No, it is just a blip in the pattern. 10%

Total Votes for this Question: 1105

This is the results of the C2E Poll.

Yes, we live in a more violent world.
36% [ 7 ]

No, it is just a blip.
63% [ 12 ]

Total Votes : 19

FYI

Sonic Death Monkey
04-01-2007, 03:30 PM
Is anyone else surprised by these results from a tabloid that caters to the lowest-common-denominator? :roll:

LindseyT
04-01-2007, 03:33 PM
/\ Sun readers responding to something that the SUN sensationalizes like it's going out of style....

Not surprised at all.

Sonic Death Monkey
09-12-2007, 03:10 PM
It was turning out to be a slightly calmer year for murders, but with all the ones just this month it's like we're trying to reach some kind of quota. This is seriously pissing me off. :x

Doug
09-12-2007, 04:05 PM
Drugs are fueling most of our homicides. Until our judges get tough on Gang members and start handing out appropriate sentences for gun offences the homicide rate will continue to climb. The numbers are not suprising at all.

peeved
09-12-2007, 04:39 PM
Drugs are fueling most of our homicides. Until our judges get tough on Gang members and start handing out appropriate sentences for gun offences the homicide rate will continue to climb. The numbers are not suprising at all.

The Federal Government gave youth(12yrs-17) a license to kill it's called the YCJA(acronym you can't send any to jail) youth criminal justice act This act is all about rehabilitation as opposed to incarceration, is it working no only the worst of the worst are incarcerated till their first appearance then they are released on bail, violate the conditions get arrested and released again. Crime(IMO) will only get worse until this act is changed or these youth can be charged as an adult @16.

Doug
09-12-2007, 04:48 PM
Your right, look no further than the YCJA to find out where the problems begin. Trouble is the really serious offenders (those who commit violent crimes) are not treated any different than the ones that are committing the property crimes.

McCauley resident
09-12-2007, 06:38 PM
Don't read this if your blood pressure rises quickly.....

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2007/11/30/4696943-sun.html

In the past five years, Beausoleil had 10 charges, one for a weapons offence, diverted because of his native ancestry (his late mother was a Cree and his father French-Canadian), said his lawyer Anthony DeMarco. Under the native diversion program, the accused acknowledges responsibility for his actions, but doesn't plead guilty and no criminal conviction is registered.

peeved
10-12-2007, 12:34 AM
Don't read this if your blood pressure rises quickly.....

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2007/11/30/4696943-sun.html

In the past five years, Beausoleil had 10 charges, one for a weapons offence, diverted because of his native ancestry (his late mother was a Cree and his father French-Canadian), said his lawyer Anthony DeMarco. Under the native diversion program, the accused acknowledges responsibility for his actions, but doesn't plead guilty and no criminal conviction is registered.
He had 10 charges in the past five years(since he turned 18 8) I'd bet that this dirt bag was in and out of trouble since he was 12 but because he was a YOUNG OFFENDER the bleeding hearts were going to rehabilitate him.That's why youth court and the YCJA is a joke. If you want to see why these punks have no regard for the law,spend a day in court room 444(youth court)but bring you blood pressure medication.

McCauley resident
10-12-2007, 02:59 AM
Your right, look no further than the YCJA to find out where the problems begin. Trouble is the really serious offenders (those who commit violent crimes) are not treated any different than the ones that are committing the property crimes.

You have it all wrong - teenage girls are "sugar & spice & everything nice" - especially at 4 a.m.......


http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=d413c63e-716a-4c09-a8c2-61b353ac3359&k=73837

A 16-year-old girl has been charged with robbery and aggravated assault after she allegedly sliced a cab driver's throat and made off with his money early Sunday morning.

Around 4 a.m., the cabbie picked up three teenage girls in the west end and drove them to 113th Avenue and 124th Street.

Insp. Terry Rocchio says one of the girls pulled a knife, held it to the cabbie's throat and demanded his money. A struggled ensued and the girls fled.

RichardS
10-12-2007, 09:56 AM
YCJA = joke. Period.

You can't tell me that these offenders don't know that they are committing the offence. Most 5 year olds know stealing chips/candy is wrong. Most 5 year olds know killing is wrong. You cannot tell me that 99.9% of the kids breaking into a car, house, store, shoplifting, raping, killing, or whatever do not know that what they are doing is wrong. How? Because if they thought it was OK, they would not try to hide it, conceal their stash, or elude the authorities. They'd just pick something up and walk out the door without trying to be sneaky. They'd just shoot someone in broad daylight and not run away.

They just know that they will get away with it by a slap on the wrist.

Either abolish it and make the law the law, or make certain offenses like murder exempt from a YCJA and make the standards law apply to all. Or, you could just make it easier to try these offenders as an adult.

Rehabilitation is still the key objective, but let's get serious here folks.

EdmontonInfo
20-02-2008, 05:43 PM
Death by gun
Edmonton led the country in rate of gun-related murders in 2006

Trish Audette and Meagan Fitzpatrick, edmontonjournal.com, Canwest News Service

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?id=a798360d-e491-4299-8b56-66e07f2b2b5e&k=22334

Published: Feb 20th 2008 3:57 pm

More than 2,500 guns were turned over to police during a provincewide firearms amnesty in 2006, but calling for the weapons wasn't enough to keep Alberta from seeing some of the highest numbers of gun crimes in the country the same year.

Gun amnesties are "politically very good," says University of Alberta criminologist Bill Pitt. "But gangsters don't give up their guns, and they're the ones that use them."

24karat
20-02-2008, 05:50 PM
The Young Offenders Act is sadly overdue for a revamp.

etownboarder
21-02-2008, 01:28 PM
The Young Offenders Act is sadly overdue for a revamp.

And what do you propose we change? BTW, it's called the Youth Criminal Justice Act. The Young Offenders Act was replaced by the YCJA in Feb of 2002.

ralph60
23-02-2008, 01:54 PM
One thing that I frankly don't believe is that the rate of crime is dropping. Statistics about crime rates can be manipulated just like any other statistics.
I find it interesting that the one statistic that is hardest to manipulate ie; the murder rate (dead is dead) shows steady increases, while the others are said to be declining.

etownboarder
23-02-2008, 02:42 PM
Crime isn't measured in concrete numbers (the number of homicides a year, number of break-ins a year, etc...). Each crime statistic is calculated based on the number of occurrences per 100,000 people. So while overall we may have more murders, more break-ins, etc... the number per 100,000 people has decreased.

ralph60
24-02-2008, 11:20 AM
/\ Whether reported on a per capita basis or on base numbers statistics can easily be manipulated. I find it interesting that city police claim the crime rate dropped 8% in 2006 yet they show phone calls to the police increased 11%.

votingforchange
27-02-2008, 05:42 PM
I wanted to vote. except its not a more violent world its a more violent City.

Come on people Edmonton is the "murder capital!" is something not wrong here? what are we doing? how can we fix this?

I understand we all have opinions but how can you sit back and think this is normal.

North Guy66
06-03-2008, 12:48 AM
Family fear factor

More to dread from people you know than a complete stranger: criminologist

Wed, March 5, 2008
By GLENN KAUTH, SUN MEDIA

Home can be a "dangerous place," says a city criminologist in the wake of Edmonton's latest homicide, the slaying of a Mill Woods mom allegedly at the hands of her teenage son and his girlfriend.

"The majority of murders are committed by people that are acquaintances or people that you know," says Bill Pitt.

"You have more to fear from a family member or an acquaintance than you do from a complete stranger."

Beverly Parker, 49, was found strangled outside her Mill Woods condo on Friday.

Keshroy Bristol, 18, and his 19-year-old girlfriend, Delmy Concepcion Vega-Medrano, are both charged with first-degree murder and remain in custody.

Bristol and Vega-Medrano made a brief first appearance in court yesterday, but won't be back before a judge until April 4.

Parker's neighbours say they would often hear yelling and banging from the condo she shared with her 18-year-old son and his 14-year-old brother.

Most of the disputes, said residents, were between the boys, who have lived in the townhouse since they were small children.

Pitt says that although it's not uncommon for youth to be charged with murder, it's fairly rare for victims to be their parents.

A more typical scenario is a deteriorating relationship between couples that, in some cases, turns deadly, said Pitt.

He says that while only 12% to 17% of all killings involve complete strangers, a significantly higher percentage is between spouses.

"One of the most dangerous places for women to be is in a long-term monogamous relationship with a man," said Pitt,

He noted official statistics underestimate the extent of family violence since people involved in it often don't report the problems until something tragic happens.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Alberta/2008/03/05/4910731-sun.html

p.s...........Talk about stating the obvious.

Sonic Death Monkey
20-04-2008, 03:36 PM
Police investigating death in Millwoods


Archie McLean, edmontonjournal.com

Published: 2:54 pm
EDMONTON - Homicide detectives were at the scene of a suspicious death today in Millwoods.
Just after 8 a.m., police were called to a home near 40th Avenue and 62 Street. Residents there had found a body in their backyard.
The entire house and the alley behind it were surrounded by police tape and the forensics unit was on scene all day.
OH FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, ARE PEOPLE IN THIS ******* CITY TRYING TO REACH SOME QUOTA OR SOMETHING?

North Guy66
20-04-2008, 04:38 PM
http://www.edmontonsun.com/Comment/Letters/2008/04/20/5335576.html

Today's letters......

Anyone want to buy my condo? I'm considering moving away from our city where seniors and bus drivers are slain by crackheads looking to score a couple of bucks. No person or community should have to deal with tragedies like this.

R. Chmilar

(They're shocking and tragic cases.)
--------------------------

Good times!!!!!

MylesC
20-04-2008, 08:19 PM
Thing is here we actually report all the crimes.

Many cities that may seem statistically better are far worse because so much crime is swept under the table.

North Guy66
21-04-2008, 06:03 PM
Very true. Last week someone said on the radio he'll be more worried if the murdered senior was on page 15 of the newspaper instead of being front page news.

As for the letter writer to the Sun yesterday, he might as well live in a bomb shelter if he wants to escape from crack heads and violence. Every major city has drug and criminal problems. The smaller towns also have meth labs and bored youth on vandalism sprees.

It's annoying reading letters from these "the sky is falling" folks.

lux
21-04-2008, 07:45 PM
Thing is here we actually report all the crimes.

Many cities that may seem statistically better are far worse because so much crime is swept under the table.

Well I would think that murder is not usually under-reported.

However I've often wondered about vehicle theft, accidents and so on. Our insurance is not the same as Calgary's. I'd like to know the ratio of claims to incidents reported to police.

Replacement
21-04-2008, 09:58 PM
Thing is here we actually report all the crimes.

Many cities that may seem statistically better are far worse because so much crime is swept under the table.

Well I would think that murder is not usually under-reported.

However I've often wondered about vehicle theft, accidents and so on. Our insurance is not the same as Calgary's. I'd like to know the ratio of claims to incidents reported to police.If anything murder is more unreported here due to bodies often not being found for a longtime if ever, (wild open spaces) and the fact that Alberta attracts many transients and migrant workers who are here without anybody that knows them or that would necessarily report them missing. Many murdered would instead be "missing persons" here if anything due to late reports of absense and little leads by then.

etownboarder
22-04-2008, 12:20 AM
Thing is here we actually report all the crimes.

Many cities that may seem statistically better are far worse because so much crime is swept under the table.

Well I would think that murder is not usually under-reported.

However I've often wondered about vehicle theft, accidents and so on. Our insurance is not the same as Calgary's. I'd like to know the ratio of claims to incidents reported to police.If anything murder is more unreported here due to bodies often not being found for a longtime if ever, (wild open spaces) and the fact that Alberta attracts many transients and migrant workers who are here without anybody that knows them or that would necessarily report them missing. Many murdered would instead be "missing persons" here if anything due to late reports of absense and little leads by then.

That's ridiculous... I highly doubt that there are very many, or any, cases of missing persons that go unreported de to wide open spaces or the high number of transient workers.

Replacement
22-04-2008, 01:08 AM
Thing is here we actually report all the crimes.

Many cities that may seem statistically better are far worse because so much crime is swept under the table.

Well I would think that murder is not usually under-reported.

However I've often wondered about vehicle theft, accidents and so on. Our insurance is not the same as Calgary's. I'd like to know the ratio of claims to incidents reported to police.If anything murder is more unreported here due to bodies often not being found for a longtime if ever, (wild open spaces) and the fact that Alberta attracts many transients and migrant workers who are here without anybody that knows them or that would necessarily report them missing. Many murdered would instead be "missing persons" here if anything due to late reports of absense and little leads by then.

That's ridiculous... I highly doubt that there are very many, or any, cases of missing persons that go unreported de to wide open spaces or the high number of transient workers.Why do you seriously doubt that and how would you know?

Badly decomposed bodies do get found years after the fact here that are hard to identify and in some cases had never been reported missing. We have a higher proportion of migrant workers and transients here than anywhere in Canada. Some of these people are very isolated. some others are in jobs that marginalize them further.

As an aside some of Pictons victims in BC had not been reported missing by family. for some, nobody ever pursued their being "missing" because they had been gone for years to runaway drug abuse. Walking ghosts.

Nothing ridiculous at all. some people almost cease to exist to their families for decades and go unreported. Happens regularly enough.

etownboarder
22-04-2008, 12:32 PM
I think it's ridiculous to assume that there are many murders that occur in AB that we never hear or see anything about due to the fact that the people are migrant workers etc... because: A) migrant workers still work somewhere, someone reports them missing B) when somebody goes missing, police do look for them or track them down C) if missing persons are not found, they are often declared dead D) and cause I just don't believe that there are that many extra murders happening that are not discovered. I'm not saying that there aren't any, just that such cases are rare, very rare. One such example is that woman who went missing a couple years ago when she told her son she was going to the bank and then never returned. Police just recently told the media that they believed she was the victim of foul play, even though they really have no clue what happened to her. Eventually she will be officially declared dead (unless they find her of course, fingers crossed). That's just the way the system works. So even though we may not know what happens to all victims of violence, they are still accounted for in some way.

Replacement
22-04-2008, 04:41 PM
I think it's ridiculous to assume that there are many murders that occur in AB that we never hear or see anything about due to the fact that the people are migrant workers etc... because: A) migrant workers still work somewhere, someone reports them missing B) when somebody goes missing, police do look for them or track them down C) if missing persons are not found, they are often declared dead D) and cause I just don't believe that there are that many extra murders happening that are not discovered. I'm not saying that there aren't any, just that such cases are rare, very rare. One such example is that woman who went missing a couple years ago when she told her son she was going to the bank and then never returned. Police just recently told the media that they believed she was the victim of foul play, even though they really have no clue what happened to her. Eventually she will be officially declared dead (unless they find her of course, fingers crossed). That's just the way the system works. So even though we may not know what happens to all victims of violence, they are still accounted for in some way.I could be wrong on this but essentially where we differ is on C)

I'm not aware of that being the case. If a person is not reported missing,(which does happen often enough) or even if they are and theres no body I don't think its ruled a homicide.

Does a homicide classification not require some evidence of an identifiable body even if that be dental or some such thing?

I don't watch CSI at all. ;)

ps even though known stats will "account in some way" it doesn't follow that it would be a homicide stat which is my point.

etownboarder
22-04-2008, 07:03 PM
I just think that the chances of someone being killed and never heard from again are so low, it's not worth mentioning. If it happens to be 1 every five years, I would be surprised.