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etownboarder
26-02-2009, 12:00 PM
Ban criminals from buses and LRT: Sohi
Last Updated: Thursday, February 26, 2009 | 10:19 AM MT Comments4Recommend5
CBC News

An Edmonton city councillor wants people repeatedly caught committing crimes on municipal buses, trains or at stations to be banned from transit property.

Coun. Amarjeet Sohi on Wednesday asked city staff to investigate whether it's possible to keep repeat offenders from riding the LRT, buses, or stepping anywhere on Edmonton Transit property.

"There's always a section of our transit users, a very small section, that cause most of the trouble, whether it's vandalism on transit properties, whether it's not paying their fare, or even getting into trouble or mugging other people or stealing property from other patrons who use transit," Sohi said.

Sohi suggested banning habitual troublemakers and posting their pictures at transit sites.

Full Story: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2009/02/26/edm-sohi-transit.html

edmontonenthusiast
26-02-2009, 12:17 PM
Sounds interesting. I think I'd be all for it, as the person in the article says, there is some sketchy characters at the LRT stations at night (even though I don't use the LRT at night really, from what I've seen). That's aside from Canada Day, New Years, etc.

Chmilz
26-02-2009, 12:18 PM
Uh, duh. Of course enforcement will be the key issue. I'll throw the usual comments out there, such as: "take the cops off photo radar duty and actually prevent some crimes" and "how about putting repeat offenders in jail?"

I'd personally like to see these scum forced to take part in maintenance projects like graffiti removal and litter pickup. Would be good for them to learn a little work ethic.

RTA
26-02-2009, 12:22 PM
I thought they already did this? I often see Peace Officers fining and escorting people off buses and LRT platforms because they have been banned.

etownboarder
26-02-2009, 12:26 PM
Sohi suggested banning habitual troublemakers and posting their pictures at transit sites.

Full Story: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2009/02/26/edm-sohi-transit.html

Looks as if Sohi is proposing some kind of hall of shame type thing... posting photos of people banned from using transit so that regular transit users are the ones doing all the work. Sorry Sohi, but I don't think regular transit users are going to appreciate you making them do ETS security work.

edmontonenthusiast
26-02-2009, 12:31 PM
I thought they already did this? I often see Peace Officers fining and escorting people off buses and LRT platforms because they have been banned.

Yes I've seen that too! But maybe it was done by Edmonton transit than the city?

Chmilz
26-02-2009, 12:34 PM
so that regular transit users are the ones doing all the work
Not to mention the safety issues that could result should a user ask a thug to leave.

etownboarder
26-02-2009, 12:44 PM
so that regular transit users are the ones doing all the work
Not to mention the safety issues that could result should a user ask a thug to leave.

Exactly. It seems to me this is another example of someone opening their mouth without really thinking about the problem in much detail.

sundance
26-02-2009, 12:57 PM
Great idea, why not scan for knives, guns, explosives and other hazardous materials before people get on a bus or LRT too.

Its possible for transit security or police to escort the repeat offenders off, or maybe you apply an increasing penalty levels, $20 1st time for not paying LRT fare, $50 2nd, $100 3rd, $500 4th and subsequent times. If somebody wants to get on a bus and pay $500 each time, they have my blessing.

Damaging property should have a similar penalties, with a couple extra factors, the person has to clean up or fix (or pay for) at least twice the damage they caused, ie: you tagged somewhere, then you clean that place and another place, you break a bus stop window, you fix it (or pay to fix it) and another.

Chmilz
26-02-2009, 01:00 PM
Really I think the only ways to increase safety on our transit is by increasing ridership during off-peak times, and through much greater human security presence.

I'm curious to know if any study has been done to determine what percentage of riders don't pay a fare or carry a pass? I'm sure much of the cost of additional security could be made back by enforcing that alone.

Chmilz
26-02-2009, 01:02 PM
Its possible for transit security or police to escort the repeat offenders off, or maybe you apply an increasing penalty levels, $20 1st time for not paying LRT fare, $50 2nd, $100 3rd, $500 4th and subsequent times. If somebody wants to get on a bus and pay $500 each time, they have my blessing.

Damaging property should have a similar penalties, with a couple extra factors, the person has to clean up or fix (or pay for) at least twice the damage they caused, ie: you tagged somewhere, then you clean that place and another place, you break a bus stop window, you fix it (or pay to fix it) and another.
Have you seen the turds that break stuff and are repeat offenders? Most have no money and live off our social handouts.

RTA
26-02-2009, 01:06 PM
I thought they already did this? I often see Peace Officers fining and escorting people off buses and LRT platforms because they have been banned.

Yes I've seen that too! But maybe it was done by Edmonton transit than the city?

The Peace Officers are commissioned by ETS to provide security. They are basically transit security with better training and powers to arrest and detain.

sundance
26-02-2009, 01:41 PM
You don't have to have them pay a fine, you can get them to clean up the mess, fix the damage,or clean up the junk by roads or maybe even fill a few pot holes.

Chmilz
26-02-2009, 01:47 PM
You don't have to have them pay a fine, you can get them to clean up the mess, fix the damage,or clean up the junk by roads or maybe even fill a few pot holes.

<thinks about how nice it would be to see jerks on a chain-gang doing something useful as punishment and payment, simultaneously>

26-02-2009, 01:50 PM
How on earth would this be enforced? Perhaps if criminals had a tattoo emblazoned on their foreheads, that might work then everyone will know they are thuggerers, buggerers, muggerers...my name is HEDLEY!

sundance
26-02-2009, 01:58 PM
Susan the only way it can be would be at the time of the offense or if a transit officer notices a familiar face. They would remove the person, radio in information and then assess what to do like they do now.

I'd say if the person has a bullseye tattoo on his forehead though, don't let the person near frisbees.

Chmilz
26-02-2009, 02:53 PM
tattoo emblazoned on their forehead
No matter how nice or intelligent someone I meet is, I just think it's stupid and ugly. The same can be said for too much piercing. I've seen way too many attractive folks go and ruin their faces - and potential careers - with this kind of statement.

etownboarder
26-02-2009, 05:59 PM
Ban repeat offenders from Edmonton Transit: councillor
By Richard Warnica, edmontonjournal.comFebruary 26, 2009 5:05 PM

EDMONTON - People who repeatedly commit crimes on Edmonton’s buses and trains could see themselves permanently banned from transit property if a longtime bus driver turned city councillor has his way.

Amarjeet Sohi has asked city staff to explore whether such a ban — which he hopes would see pictures of repeat offenders plastered on transit station walls — is plausible.

“What my experience was when I was working for Edmonton Transit is that this small portion of transit users end up committing a majority of the crime,” Sohi said. “And they are the individuals that we continually see hanging around transit property, even after they have committed vandalism or have stolen property from other patrons.”

Sohi drove a bus for disabled adults from 1991 to 2003 and a regular city bus from 2003 until he was elected to council in 2007. He says he often saw drug deals going down not just on transit property, but in the buses themselves.

Full Story: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/edmonton/repeat+offenders+from+Edmonton+Transit+councillor/1333038/story.html

etownboarder
26-02-2009, 06:02 PM
“What my experience was when I was working for Edmonton Transit is that this small portion of transit users end up committing a majority of the crime,” Sohi said. “And they are the individuals that we continually see hanging around transit property, even after they have committed vandalism or have stolen property from other patrons.”

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/edmonton/repeat+offenders+from+Edmonton+Transit+councillor/1333038/story.html

Wow... now that really is something.

Sorry Sohi, I could've told you that was happening even if I had never ridden a bus in all my life. It's no different than thefts from personal properties, or murders, or arsons... it's a very small percentage of the population who commits the offence, but the rest of society that pays for it.

Couldn't the Edmonton Journal find something better to quote him on? Or was it a busy day in the news?

mAD~mOD
26-02-2009, 08:03 PM
Ban repeat offenders from Edmonton Transit: councillor
By Richard Warnica, edmontonjournal.comFebruary 26, 2009 5:05 PM

EDMONTON - People who repeatedly commit crimes on Edmonton’s buses and trains could see themselves permanently banned from transit property if a longtime bus driver turned city councillor has his way.

Amarjeet Sohi has asked city staff to explore whether such a ban — which he hopes would see pictures of repeat offenders plastered on transit station walls — is plausible.

“What my experience was when I was working for Edmonton Transit is that this small portion of transit users end up committing a majority of the crime,” Sohi said. “And they are the individuals that we continually see hanging around transit property, even after they have committed vandalism or have stolen property from other patrons.”

Sohi drove a bus for disabled adults from 1991 to 2003 and a regular city bus from 2003 until he was elected to council in 2007. He says he often saw drug deals going down not just on transit property, but in the buses themselves.

Full Story: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/edmonton/repeat+offenders+from+Edmonton+Transit+councillor/1333038/story.html

So what did Sohi do when he say these "drug deals" going down? Did he go and confront them, throw their drugs to the ground and make a citizens arrest? Or did he decide to sit quietly and watch it happen hoping that in the future he would have the courage to ask people to stand up against the criminals by putting there pictures in LRT stations. An action he may not have felt safe doing himself.

wayfr8r
26-02-2009, 10:37 PM
Recently my daughter (who is a student at NAIT) was assaulted at the Kingsway Transit Centre by two other females, who may have been 'First Nations'. This was thwarted by a good samaritan who came to my daugther's rescue. The Police were contacted and reports prepared, but that's as far as it has gone.

Question being, is there any video surveillance at these transit centres in order to prevent this sort of thing from occuring??

The_Cat
26-02-2009, 11:50 PM
I don't know if banning riders from buses would work, but I think that more security at the LRT (especially around the fare boxes) would work. Many of these criminals would try to jump LRT fares.

etownboarder
27-02-2009, 12:03 AM
I don't know if banning riders from buses would work, but I think that more security at the LRT (especially around the fare boxes) would work. Many of these criminals would try to jump LRT fares.

What does security around a ticket dispenser do? Unless there's someone at the entrance to the LRT checking each and every person going by to see if they've purchased a ticket or have a transit pass, not much would change by having someone stand at the ticket dispensing machine.

LindseyT
27-02-2009, 09:55 AM
Any tool that legitimizes transit cops removing riff raff from stations is a good thing.

shasta daisy
01-03-2009, 10:40 AM
I no longer take the lrt unless I have someone with me. It's not safe . The employees that are at the stations are never where they need to be. When presented with an issue they are ill prepared. This city is sad when you consider Calgary and Vancouver's transportation systems

RTA
01-03-2009, 12:14 PM
^ See, this attitude is what bothers me more than anything else. If all the good, average everyday joes like you and I start avoiding the LRT (or downtown, etc.) because of a few "sketchy" people then all that will be left are the sketchy people, and we've just handed over our public spaces and buildings and infrastructure to them. If crime in these places is getting out of hand, it's because we've allowed it to happen by doing nothing but hiding from them. And then the criminals and other "sketchy" people have won and they didn't have to do anything for it. We can't let fear rule our lives, or our city, or our LRT, or our downtown, and so forth and so on.

Having said all that, I don't agree with you. I've found the increased security at LRT stations to be quite visible and highly responsive to problems. I've found that the LRT is busy enough these days that there are far less opportunities for criminal behaviour and activity than in the past.

etownboarder
01-03-2009, 01:35 PM
I agree with RTA here for the most part... Avoiding using the LRT does nothing to solve the problem. That being said, I can't even count the number of times I've been asked whether I want to buy drugs on the platform. I'm sure this wouldn't happen if each station had at least one security guard at most times of the day. And before you say having enough people on the platform will make a difference, the last time someone asked if I wanted to buy some weed it was rush hour at Corona station and there were close to 200 people on the platform... so it doesn't seem to scare too many people.

Medwards
01-03-2009, 03:34 PM
I no longer take the lrt unless I have someone with me. It's not safe . The employees that are at the stations are never where they need to be. When presented with an issue they are ill prepared. This city is sad when you consider Calgary and Vancouver's transportation systems

Oh please. I've seen the same problems on the skytrain and on the c-train. The LRT is as safe here as any mass transit anywhere in Canada.

To those who disagree, I would challenge haven't ridden other transit systems in Canada very often.

shasta daisy
01-03-2009, 09:51 PM
I am retired I don't travel during the times people are all buzy on the lrt . I have good reason for my decision to trip plan the way I do .I have more than 2 brains cells clingin round my brain and grew up in a ghetto I know when and where i'm safe, sorry if that hurts the cities crime fighting idea. My days as a superpower are over I like to dress up and go downtown and to the southside I don't want to be spoken to for money cigarettes by a crazed crack or meth head in an area I can't run from and I sure don't want to be alone on the platform going down the stairs so I can catch the 8 on 118th ave . Try it at off peak times then tell me i'm wrong. I have been on transit systems all over Canada , U.S. ,U.K , FR,NTL,ITAL, Not one of them required a walk along a long hallway with no shops or people in cash cages. Cameras are only good as evidence after the fact.