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JayBee
15-12-2008, 01:45 PM
Not a done deal, but...


Hawaii Gov. Linda Lingle has unveiled a plan for the island state to create an electric car network by 2012,

Full story. (http://www.dailytech.com/Hawaii+Endorses+Plan+for+Electric+Cars+/article13578.htm)

CBC's Quirks and Quarks' host, Bob MacDonald's take on it (http://www.cbc.ca/technology/quirks-blog/2008/12/aloha_all_electric.html)


...The biggest lesson to take from Hawaii’s electric revolution is their desire to do it. The decision to go green came from the top down; political leaders made a commitment, industry sees a profit in it and the public buys into it.
Hmmm, wouldn’t it be nice if those same elements were in place in Canada?

Words of wisdom as Mandel, Caterina, Batty, Sohi, Anderson, Sloan and Krushel's Edmonton slips backwards.

JayBee
15-12-2008, 01:47 PM
Enter the no-can-do squeaky wheels...

raz0469
15-12-2008, 01:52 PM
Very interesting. Hawaii is a pretty unique, and in fact perfect, place to do this because it is an island and cars aren't constantly coming in and out. I wouldn't buy an electric car in Edmonton if I couldn't drive it to Calgary or Banff or Jasper, for example. But I'd be more likely to in Hawaii, because I'll never be driving that car anywhere without the infrastructure to support it.

IanO
15-12-2008, 01:57 PM
another example, on a smaller scale, is Zermatt in Switzerland. All vehicles are electric and cute

Dusty Bear
15-12-2008, 02:51 PM
another example, on a smaller scale, is Zermatt in Switzerland. All vehicles are electric and cute

I, for one, would support legislation mandating that all cars must be cute.

;)

FrozenOrca
15-12-2008, 03:04 PM
Words of wisdom as Mandel, Caterina, Batty, Sohi, Anderson, Sloan and Krushel's Edmonton slips backwards.


Yeah, right. Slip backwards.

I'll make you a deal. You show me an electric vehicle that will give me the range we need with the defrost on high, wipers going, lights on, and maybe my radio on low, and we will talk.

This is Edmonton. It is -30 for a low this week. It is dark when we leave for work, and dark when we go home. This is not the temperate, isolated, small land of Oahu or Maui.

The last I heard heaters draw a lot of power.

moahunter
15-12-2008, 03:14 PM
It has to start somewhere. This is a good thing, the more places that can do this, the sooner there will be technology that can work here. The most promising on the horizon for our climate might be the Volt, which will have a gasoline generator for those days that are just too cold for the battery + heating us.

I'd be interested in knowing how Hawai gets their electricity. Presumably they have the option of clean geothermal (all those volcanoes must produce a bit of surplus energy)? Or maybe they hook up one of those nuclear aircraft cariers docked at port? Not like here in Alberta, for when we increase electricity output, it means a lot more coal being burned.

JayBee
15-12-2008, 03:27 PM
Words of wisdom as Mandel, Caterina, Batty, Sohi, Anderson, Sloan and Krushel's Edmonton slips backwards.


Yeah, right. Slip backwards.

I'll make you a deal. You show me an electric vehicle that will give me the range we need with the defrost on high, wipers going, lights on, and maybe my radio on low, and we will talk.

This is Edmonton. It is -30 for a low this week. It is dark when we leave for work, and dark when we go home. This is not the temperate, isolated, small land of Oahu or Maui.

The last I heard heaters draw a lot of power.

Hi RichardS.

MrOilers
15-12-2008, 03:43 PM
Hawaii is a great place for a pilot project like this.

I can't see it being practical on mainland North America for a long while yet.

Medwards
15-12-2008, 03:44 PM
Words of wisdom as Mandel, Caterina, Batty, Sohi, Anderson, Sloan and Krushel's Edmonton slips backwards.


Yeah, right. Slip backwards.

I'll make you a deal. You show me an electric vehicle that will give me the range we need with the defrost on high, wipers going, lights on, and maybe my radio on low, and we will talk.

This is Edmonton. It is -30 for a low this week. It is dark when we leave for work, and dark when we go home. This is not the temperate, isolated, small land of Oahu or Maui.

The last I heard heaters draw a lot of power.

Hi RichardS.

Its not RichardS...

JayBee
15-12-2008, 04:04 PM
Physically I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but TTM looks like RichardS, talks like RichardS, has stood up for RichardS, has the same logic and opinions as RichardS, and even works at the company RichardS does so I'm going to dismiss TTM as close enough to RichardS for the purposes of debate.

If anyone wants to fight for TTM's unique identity I don't even care.

JayBee
15-12-2008, 04:07 PM
Hawaii is a great place for a pilot project like this.

I can't see it being practical on mainland North America for a long while yet.


Why not?

MrOilers
15-12-2008, 04:11 PM
In short, distance and weather. A lot of the reasons TELUS Team Member pointed out.

Hawaii is tiny, isolated, and is only moderately populated. It's easy to make wholesale changes there as compared to an entire country the size of the USA or Canada.

Glenco
15-12-2008, 04:22 PM
Hawaii is a great place for a pilot project like this.

I can't see it being practical on mainland North America for a long while yet.


Why not?

There is a small island in the English channel called Sark that only allows bikes and horses. If they can do it why can't we?

Edmonton PRT
15-12-2008, 04:24 PM
Hawaii has a greater population than Edmonton and is the 13th highest density state in the USA.

raz0469
15-12-2008, 04:34 PM
If anything that would make it easier to change things over, so I'm not sure why someone else pointed "moderate" population as being a plus. The hardest places to change over transportation infrastructure would be the ones that are the least populated. Who would buy a hydrogen car for example, in Wyoming if there was only a single fill station as compared to California, which could support dozens if not hundreds of stations even if only a very small proportion of vehicles were hydrogen powered.

MrOilers
15-12-2008, 04:36 PM
Hawaii has a greater population than Edmonton and is the 13th highest density state in the USA.

The most important thing is that they can't drive to another state.

nobleea
15-12-2008, 05:09 PM
I believe they also have some mighty expensive gas since they import it all? and with all the sun and wave power, plus volcanoes (geothermal), I'd think generating electricity wouldn't be too hard.

RichardS
15-12-2008, 05:16 PM
Physically I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but TTM looks like RichardS, talks like RichardS, has stood up for RichardS, has the same logic and opinions as RichardS, and even works at the company RichardS does so I'm going to dismiss TTM as close enough to RichardS for the purposes of debate.

If anyone wants to fight for TTM's unique identity I don't even care.

Paranoid JayBee?

30,000 people work for TELUS, ~3,800 right here in little ol' Edmonton...and "TTM" has disagreed with me...although I did recommend the name as a neat play on the culture here.

Oh, and TTM found this site as a recruitment tool when I was out doing internal recruiting...one of the reasons why he came here - a "Success Story" so to say...

So, all who hold similar opinions as me, you are me. Wow, I'm pretty fat...

BTW - I do have an alternate name here, that I used ONCE as a test tool. Way way way back in 2005 - I think it has one post.

NEXT!:rolleyes:

JayBee
15-12-2008, 05:37 PM
Trouble reading, Richard?


If anyone wants to fight for TTM's unique identity I don't even care.

Back to the topic?

JayBee
15-12-2008, 06:06 PM
The most important thing is that they can't drive to another state.

Granted that would make a 100% changeover impractical/impossible, but there's still no reason a charging network and system of disincentives for liquid fuel cars couldn't be done in Norh America. I'd even echo what raz0469 said about California. If they don't already have a charging network, would anyone seriously doubt that they wouldn't within a few years?


I believe they also have some mighty expensive gas since they import it all? and with all the sun and wave power, plus volcanoes (geothermal), I'd think generating electricity wouldn't be too hard.

Good points, and politically or practically does outline the uphill battle we have here.

kcantor
15-12-2008, 07:00 PM
Trouble reading, Richard?


If anyone wants to fight for TTM's unique identity I don't even care.

Back to the topic?

if you didn't care other than about the topic, why the sarcastic "Hi RichardS" with nothing else in the post in the first place?

RichardS didn't move it off topic - you did.

JayBee
15-12-2008, 07:58 PM
Excuse me, was I away from the BOG meeting where we dropped the instigator penalty?

Edmonton PRT
15-12-2008, 08:00 PM
Back to the subject on Hawaii.

It must be awful waiting for a bus at +25C :rolleyes:

MagicMonkey
15-12-2008, 09:19 PM
There was an article in Wired magazine a few months ago with a gentleman that wants to start a system where you would have the option of trading your dry battery for a fresh one at service stations, kind of like filling your tank with gas. If your on a long haul you cant stop for eight hours every 100Km to recharge your battery, mind you wouldn't want to be replacing your battery every 100km on a long trip either. I've got the article at work I'll look at it again in the morning for a name and details.

raz0469
16-12-2008, 10:03 AM
Considering that the Tesla roadster, for example, has something like 500lbs of batteries, I don't see how that's remotely practical.

moahunter
16-12-2008, 11:08 AM
Considering that the Tesla roadster, for example, has something like 500lbs of batteries, I don't see how that's remotely practical.
I remember reading about the Volt - and engineers said it is not a practical idea as well. It makes more sense to have a large battery that is integrated for a good range. Perhaps lasting 10 years before replacement (by which time the vehicle is marginal anyway, given the way saftey standards change, etc).

MrOilers
16-12-2008, 11:19 AM
There was an article in Wired magazine a few months ago with a gentleman that wants to start a system where you would have the option of trading your dry battery for a fresh one at service stations, kind of like filling your tank with gas. If your on a long haul you cant stop for eight hours every 100Km to recharge your battery, mind you wouldn't want to be replacing your battery every 100km on a long trip either. I've got the article at work I'll look at it again in the morning for a name and details.
That would take a universal standardization for batteries between different vehicle makes/models.

kcantor
16-12-2008, 11:52 AM
There was an article in Wired magazine a few months ago with a gentleman that wants to start a system where you would have the option of trading your dry battery for a fresh one at service stations, kind of like filling your tank with gas. If your on a long haul you cant stop for eight hours every 100Km to recharge your battery, mind you wouldn't want to be replacing your battery every 100km on a long trip either. I've got the article at work I'll look at it again in the morning for a name and details.
That would take a universal standardization for batteries between different vehicle makes/models.
although we already do that with a number of things from watch batteries to d-cell batteries to gasoline and jet fuel for that matter don't we?

and within reason even the batteries could vary within a given size range (just as the current lead/acid ones we use in our cars now vary in size) provided the connections were compatible and the output was correct.

Blueline
16-12-2008, 12:34 PM
Having just returned from the island of Hawaii, I find this thread very interesting They have an astounding high per capita use of large vehicles and an almost complete lack of solar generation on the big island aside from individual hot water assist systems on some residences.
How will the power be generated?
Not a nay sayer, just askin'

JayBee
16-12-2008, 01:04 PM
I think the Quirks and Quarks article sheds more light on that than the Tech Review article does, but it appears the network of charging stations is to coincide with the installation of more solar, wind, geothermal, and tidal or ocean current power plants.

raz0469
16-12-2008, 02:48 PM
There was an article in Wired magazine a few months ago with a gentleman that wants to start a system where you would have the option of trading your dry battery for a fresh one at service stations, kind of like filling your tank with gas. If your on a long haul you cant stop for eight hours every 100Km to recharge your battery, mind you wouldn't want to be replacing your battery every 100km on a long trip either. I've got the article at work I'll look at it again in the morning for a name and details.
That would take a universal standardization for batteries between different vehicle makes/models.
although we already do that with a number of things from watch batteries to d-cell batteries to gasoline and jet fuel for that matter don't we?

and within reason even the batteries could vary within a given size range (just as the current lead/acid ones we use in our cars now vary in size) provided the connections were compatible and the output was correct.

Ding! Are car engines standardized? Or fuel tanks? No, they vary from vehicle to vehicle depending on size, performance and so on. The same would apply to batteries for electric vehicles. Typically they're engineered/designed for the very specific vehicle they are being supplied for, since it's tough to find space for such large batteries. So they shoe horn them in under seats and so on.

I just can't see a standardized battery system for electric cars.

JayBee
16-12-2008, 03:06 PM
I see the same problems with range anyone does (although I'm still hoping for this to turn out) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EEStor) but clearly the current range issues shouldn't preclude urban installations, and we do have options for intercity transport as well.

I for one would be content with using my own car (nevermind that I don't even have one right now) only within the metro area, and then taking mass transit to Jasper or Saskatoon, and then renting an electric car in their range. That's pretty much how I operate now, except the electric parts.

MagicMonkey
16-12-2008, 03:43 PM
Well I reread the article, it was in the Sept. issue it was by Daniel Roth about Shai Agassi. Shai has a company with a plan to get electric vehicles on the streets including Charging stations, battery swapping, home charging stations, and an electronic monitoring system that could give you the current status of your cars charge on your cell, plus more. His company is basicly trying to preplan the infrastructure required to replace gas vehicls.
http://www.wired.com/cars/futuretransport/magazine/16-09/ff_agassi

blainehamilton
16-12-2008, 03:52 PM
After driving on Oahu for a week this past spring, I can see it being as the perfect testing ground for an electric network.

Varied terrain, high speed freeways, large tourist population open to new ideas and technologies...


It was almost 8 years ago I drove my first hybrid rental while on vacation in California. I'd be all over the chance to do the same in an all electric!